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Direct X10 on Windows XP!

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April 30, 2007 6:54:53 PM

check this out, If the thought of bringing DirectX 10 functionality to your non-Vista machine sounds enticing, you'll wanna check out the Alky Project. It's a project developed by 19 year old kid Cody Brocious to bring the DirectX 10 platform to Windows XP, Mac and Linux users.

heres the link, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070424-project-a...

UP YOURS MICROSOFT!!!! :twisted: :twisted:

More about : direct x10 windows

April 30, 2007 7:00:59 PM

yea, but did you read that the guy couldn't get it to work?

Quote:
Even after installing all three tools and configuring Visual C++ to include data from the DX10 SDK package when compiling code, I was still unable to successfully run the recommended tutorial.
April 30, 2007 7:08:49 PM

yah i knoe, the dude is 19 and this is still in development. if someone was to help him out then he'd be able to do it faster. hes also asking for donations, 50 bucks, most likely to buy an 8600 for "testing purposes" just give him some time, or if there any code writers out there; help him out and he'll be able to get somewhere. this would be soo sweet if he actually got this to work!
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April 30, 2007 7:14:50 PM

I have to admit, that would be pretty cool. WinXp is what 6 years old and VIsta is new.
Remember when we all said, " Windows XP, I don't want that crap! Screw you Microsoft for shoving this down our throats" Now we all love it. Eventually we will all like Vista also; I will even get it in the next year or so when I build my new machine.
April 30, 2007 7:30:58 PM

I dont doubt that eventualy Vista will be good... but no one shoved XP down my throat, in fact I couldnt get it soon enough, it was lightyears beyond 95,98,ME.... I remember having to reboot several times a day to do almost anything in them lol (meaning the 9X OS's)


Edit: I also think doing DX10 on XP can be done but its going to take hacking some parts of XP instead of trying to hack DX10 to get it working on XP.
April 30, 2007 7:35:54 PM

Quote:
check this out, If the thought of bringing DirectX 10 functionality to your non-Vista machine sounds enticing, you'll wanna check out the Alky Project. It's a project developed by 19 year old kid Cody Brocious to bring the DirectX 10 platform to Windows XP, Mac and Linux users.

heres the link, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070424-project-a...

UP YOURS MICROSOFT!!!! :twisted: :twisted:


this was sooo predictable
and i love it 8)
April 30, 2007 7:51:34 PM

If he can get it to work I wonder what will happen when he tries to patch or update xp. (validation tool)
April 30, 2007 8:05:51 PM

a good initiative...and i wish them luck
and if they will succed...what dirty devilishy clever scheme microsoft will apply to stand in their way.?
April 30, 2007 8:19:36 PM

As soon as all software producers dump direct x 9, the @$$ wipes at microsoft will have forced all users with a direct x 9 graphics card to buy a new one. SOOOO, whoever is developing dx10 for xp should work hard and make it known to Microshaft. Thanks
April 30, 2007 8:33:54 PM

It's a DX10 emulator. All SM 4.0 and other DX10-only features are calculated on the CPU. Meaning it'll be verrry slowww.
April 30, 2007 8:36:53 PM

Quote:
yah i knoe, the dude is 19 and this is still in development. if someone was to help him out then he'd be able to do it faster. hes also asking for donations, 50 bucks, most likely to buy an 8600 for "testing purposes" just give him some time, or if there any code writers out there; help him out and he'll be able to get somewhere. this would be soo sweet if he actually got this to work!


I wonder if he's converting DX10 methods to DX9 methods, i.e. his API will require Windows XP/Win2K and the DX9 dlls. Hopefully his solution does better than that and works on Linux too. If he can do that then he'll find it much easier to get donations and maybe other programmers to help.
April 30, 2007 8:40:13 PM

Quote:
yah i knoe, the dude is 19 and this is still in development. if someone was to help him out then he'd be able to do it faster. hes also asking for donations, 50 bucks, most likely to buy an 8600 for "testing purposes" just give him some time, or if there any code writers out there; help him out and he'll be able to get somewhere. this would be soo sweet if he actually got this to work!


So, he's asking for people to donate 50 bucks for him to get dx10 working on Win XP?
That sounds like a nice scheme...wonder if he'll continue once the donations reach a high number...or...maybe he's looking for a job at MS so he shows his coding prowess, get some cash from some internet fools who'll never meet him and then gets a job at MS and announces it can't be done...
April 30, 2007 8:49:00 PM

Quote:
As soon as all software producers dump direct x 9, the @$$ wipes at microsoft will have forced all users with a direct x 9 graphics card to buy a new one. SOOOO, whoever is developing dx10 for xp should work hard and make it known to Microshaft. Thanks


So you're still happy using DX5 are you?
April 30, 2007 9:34:51 PM

I think the people getting really excited over this are missing the whole idea of what dx10 is and what it's impact on gaming will be. The most important features dx10 really brings to the table are a streamlined instruction pipeline and a new geometry shader for fast on the fly rendering.

Even if this kid can get dx10 operations to function on xp it still won't "work". Rerouting all that information through an emulation prgram is going to slow things down alot, and forcing the cpu to do even more work that is meant for the gpu is going to slow things down even further.

Bottom line is, even if it does 'work" it'll likely be way to slow to produce playable framerates. It's an interesting idea, and I give the kid all the credit in the world for taking on a project this big, but I would still plan on buying vista you want to play with dx10.
May 1, 2007 6:51:53 PM

No I would not be happy in using dx5 (what is the relevency other than it is for nt 4.0?), but If Microsoft would create a stable platform in the first place, and would work with previous versions of its Windows operating systems, then all would be good. I have put linux on a partition on my custom system due to my disgust with Microsoft. It is my understanding that longhorn is server 03 based. Why not open it up and allow XP to have direct x 10? Vista's system requirements are ridiculous! When Direct x 9 is gone, what will xp gamers do? Bend over to Microsoft and take it? Its called open source: Wine, Cedega on linux. Several issues arise, including how long it will take to "port" over Direct x 10, how efficient it can become, and as a last resort, appeal to programmers to make all games compatable with open gl.
May 1, 2007 7:41:49 PM

This was posted by some other guy this morning already. All good points. Let's see where this goes.
May 2, 2007 12:34:02 PM

This is the goal of Falling Leaf Systems Alky Project:

"Each Alky Converter will solve these issues by converting a specific Windows game into a fully native OSX or Linux executable. Alky is fully 64 bit capable and has no Wine-like server architecture to provide unnecessary overhead and speed degradation."
Check this out:
http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/sapling/
May 2, 2007 2:14:55 PM

That sounds great, it means theoretically you should be able to install and run Crysis on Ubuntu and it would run faster than on Vista because the O/S takes fewer resources and does fewer DRM checks and security checks and so on.

I suspect there are some legal issues here though, about reverse engineering the interface invented by Microsoft and implementing it for a different system. Microsoft should at least get royalties if this happens. I know I'll get flamed for siding with Microsoft here, but the fact is they did spend a lot of effort coming up with the interface between 1996 and 2007 and they deserve some compensation IMO.

I think the best solution would be for game developers to use OpenGL or some new open source API instead of DirectX, but that's impossible because there's already a huge base of software libraries based on DirectX that they'd have to rewrite.
May 2, 2007 7:57:24 PM

true about the royalties there

but then, oops! it suddenly appears on bittorrent... :wink:
May 3, 2007 1:46:24 AM

Quote:
Quote:
No I would not be happy in using dx5 (what is the relevency other than it is for nt 4.0?), but If Microsoft would create a stable platform in the first place, and would work with previous versions of its Windows operating systems, then all would be good.
Quote:


People that have stability problems with XP SP2 are likely causing it themselves. My system runs for a week or more at a time until I shut it down if I'll be gone a few days or it's storming heavy. That's through heavy gaming, VPN to work, and wife's uses, and my 9 yr olds games. I'll occasionally have a problem with a new video driver release but I'm not going to blame that on Microsoft. I haven't used Vista yet but I know it has a more stable core and better code than XP. Currently driver and application problems make it unstable and that will get better as each month goes by with new releases, as as programmers learn to follow the new rules.

I have put linux on a partition on my custom system due to my disgust with Microsoft. It is my understanding that longhorn is server 03 based. Why not open it up and allow XP to have direct x 10?

Vista has deep down changes that make it difficult to pass back in time to old XP, even if they wanted to. Which they don't because they want people to move into the future (and pump in more revenue, like every company ever created wants). Win95 was better than 3.1. XP is better than Win98. The future will be better yet. Otherwise we'd all be driving black Model A's to the mall.

Vista's system requirements are ridiculous!

I don't see anything wrong with Vista's requirements. I saw a $650 PC at Best Buy with a AMD X2 5000+ CPU and 1 GB of memory. Vista will run on it and it would be a powerful system for 80% of consumers. People on this forum and any medium to heavy gamer are likely to already have a system much stronger than Vista needs.

When Direct x 9 is gone, what will xp gamers do? Bend over to Microsoft and take it?

DX9 is nice but has reached it's limits. XP is 6 years old. Get over it and move on. Far Cry's graphics were fantastic at the time. Did you want games to stop at that level, or would you rather see games (and other app's) get even better over the next few years? You can't have it both ways.

Its called open source: Wine, Cedega on linux. Several issues arise, including how long it will take to "port" over Direct x 10, how efficient it can become, and as a last resort, appeal to programmers to make all games compatable with open gl.

Wine, etc. isn't without flaw. That's the problem with Linux fanatics. They think it's the center of the universe. Yet it has some major drawbacks too. It isn't yet ready for grandma to install and use for one thing. When there is a problem, do you expect her to search tech forums and ask detailed questions and be able to understand the answers? The rest of us use Windows because we have to be compatible with the zillions of other people using Windows. The OS means nothing to 99% of all computer users. A PC is just a tool so they can send email, file taxes easy, produce a movie, run a plasma cutter in their factory, etc.

Also the entire "Free!" Linux mentality really bugs me. Same slimy people that steal works from copyright holders. You expect a company to invest $15 million dollars or more and a couple years of time developing a major game just to give it away? Time has shown that the Linux community won't pay for software. Thus, almost nothing of quality is produced for it by a company that has investors to answer to. Sure, some of the people tolling away in their homes have done some cool and useful programs. But honestly answer how much of it Linux users would pay $25, $60, $300 for? On the other hand time has proven that Windows users do pay $60 for a game and $500 for an application. So they get all the good development. Same problem for Macintosh. Great systems and OS but small marketshare and companies put their efforts where they'll get the biggest return on their investment.
May 3, 2007 3:38:22 PM

Quote:

DX9 is nice but has reached it's limits. XP is 6 years old. Get over it and move on. Far Cry's graphics were fantastic at the time. Did you want games to stop at that level, or would you rather see games (and other app's) get even better over the next few years? You can't have it both ways.


if you take a look at this
http://www.projectoffset.com/
you will see that the graphics in this game (witch is fully dx9)
are far beyond crysis or any other dx10 game pre-release
so i think we haven't seen the limit's of dx9, yet.
May 3, 2007 11:24:53 PM

That looks nice, if it looks that good ingame and it ever gets released. Far Cry was still amazing at the time of its release, was all I stated. Hardware is much better now too. Thus my point that you may have missed about everything getting better as we move forward into the future. Would you want to still be using XP and DX9 10 years from now, just because some programmers can still make it look nice?

Vista is here. DX10 is here. I say let's put our energy into pressing developers into getting the best out of those ASAP. Instead some people seem to want them to hang back and squeeze the last drop of life out of DX9 and XP. Which IMHO is rather pointless in the era of quad cores and juicy new DX10 cards arriving this month.
May 4, 2007 2:31:12 PM

of course you are right that we must move on
certainly in the IT sector
all i wanted to show was that xp aint dead, yet
i'm not a fan of vista and personally i will only upgrade to vista when they fix things with the first service pack

just my personal opinion though :) 
a b U Graphics card
May 4, 2007 3:00:50 PM

The coolest thing about this project is DX10 on Linux. Eventually, Microsoft will kill off XP, so we'll eventually be forced to upgrade anyway. If this project gets done in time, it might be useful. I for one don't want to go to Vista anytime soon.
May 4, 2007 3:19:37 PM

Quote:

Wine, etc. isn't without flaw. That's the problem with Linux fanatics. They think it's the center of the universe. Yet it has some major drawbacks too. It isn't yet ready for grandma to install and use for one thing. When there is a problem, do you expect her to search tech forums and ask detailed questions and be able to understand the answers? The rest of us use Windows because we have to be compatible with the zillions of other people using Windows. The OS means nothing to 99% of all computer users. A PC is just a tool so they can send email, file taxes easy, produce a movie, run a plasma cutter in their factory, etc.

Also the entire "Free!" Linux mentality really bugs me. Same slimy people that steal works from copyright holders. You expect a company to invest $15 million dollars or more and a couple years of time developing a major game just to give it away? Time has shown that the Linux community won't pay for software. Thus, almost nothing of quality is produced for it by a company that has investors to answer to. Sure, some of the people tolling away in their homes have done some cool and useful programs. But honestly answer how much of it Linux users would pay $25, $60, $300 for? On the other hand time has proven that Windows users do pay $60 for a game and $500 for an application. So they get all the good development. Same problem for Macintosh. Great systems and OS but small marketshare and companies put their efforts where they'll get the biggest return on their investment.


You seem to have missed the boat on the linux community. Wine is not perfect and I don't think anyone has ever said it is. But it does amazingly well considering It runs programs designed for Windows with no windows code in it. And is some programs, better than windows does.

And the Free is for freedom not freeloader. Yes there are free distributions, but there are also paid for distributions and they seem to do well. With Free software you get to choose what your computer does, and what you do with it. I don't have any problem buying applications, and supporting people who write open source programs, like most of the linux community. It is sometimes hard to buy programs, because not many software companies write for linux. So the community writes their own. So I support them.

Linux is easier for a person to install and configure than windows is. Especially on cheaper hardware. Or you can just run it without installing it. Put the CD in a boot into the OS. But if you are comparing buying a computer with windows on it to installing an OS from scratch you are making an apples to oranges comparison. Since the manufacturer is doing the windows install and not the user.
May 4, 2007 4:13:53 PM

That projectoffset looks amazing but the real benefit of DX10 is less making things look pretty and more about efficiently using the GPU to produce better results. And to runswindows95 from what I understand MS will stop releasing fixes for XP at the end of the year so the end is nearer than most think.
a b U Graphics card
May 4, 2007 4:28:23 PM

Considering there are rumors of a new Windows in 2009, that doesn't surprise me. By then, I'll be building a Vista system anyway.
May 4, 2007 5:02:14 PM

Quote:
That looks nice, if it looks that good ingame and it ever gets released. Far Cry was still amazing at the time of its release, was all I stated. Hardware is much better now too. Thus my point that you may have missed about everything getting better as we move forward into the future. Would you want to still be using XP and DX9 10 years from now, just because some programmers can still make it look nice?

Vista is here. DX10 is here. I say let's put our energy into pressing developers into getting the best out of those ASAP. Instead some people seem to want them to hang back and squeeze the last drop of life out of DX9 and XP. Which IMHO is rather pointless in the era of quad cores and juicy new DX10 cards arriving this month.



IMO a good game is a good game regardless of the graphics. I still play Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Max Payne some times. The graphics are dated but not all that bad and the games rock! How many people still play warcraft II or starcraft? How about the monkey island series?
May 4, 2007 6:17:22 PM

Quote:

IMO a good game is a good game regardless of the graphics. I still play Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Max Payne some times. The graphics are dated but not all that bad and the games rock! How many people still play warcraft II or starcraft? How about the monkey island series?


Your mom....
May 5, 2007 12:26:35 AM

Quote:

IMO a good game is a good game regardless of the graphics. I still play Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Max Payne some times. The graphics are dated but not all that bad and the games rock! How many people still play warcraft II or starcraft? How about the monkey island series?


Your mom....



Ahhh your mom's sister's brother's nephew's mom. :wink:
March 12, 2009 10:29:45 AM

I play monkey island!

Guybrush Treepwood FTW!
March 12, 2009 11:39:48 AM

LOL 2 years:p  I'd agree:) 
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2009 12:55:35 PM

Whats worse, is the comment was pointless...
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 2:08:24 AM

Zephyn said:
I have to admit, that would be pretty cool. WinXp is what 6 years old and VIsta is new.
Remember when we all said, " Windows XP, I don't want that crap! Screw you Microsoft for shoving this down our throats" Now we all love it. Eventually we will all like Vista also; I will even get it in the next year or so when I build my new machine.

Are you crazy Vista is awfule belive me i bought it and had to reformat and go back on xp i have a quad chip 2 4850x2 cards and 8 gig of ramn + 4 more on my cards and vista is still 5 times slower than x5 for loading shutting down updating instaling it makes errors when you are instaling you have to fight to get your software instaled to the location you want all the back ground services.My point is xp was good when it came out i didnt blank it once but Vista is a dead horse m8.And yes i have reinstalled it 5 times over the last year to see if updates had sorted it out nope its crap and tbh i feel cheated i even bought the Vista SP1/2 at gr8 exspense to try and imrove it but nope its a white elephant that should be lost in the vaults of time.
July 18, 2009 11:10:11 AM

Quote:
Are you crazy Vista is awfule belive me i bought it and had to reformat and go back on xp i have a quad chip 2 4850x2 cards and 8 gig of ramn + 4 more on my cards and vista is still 5 times slower than x5 for loading shutting down updating instaling it makes errors when you are instaling you have to fight to get your software instaled to the location you want all the back ground services.My point is xp was good when it came out i didnt blank it once but Vista is a dead horse m8.And yes i have reinstalled it 5 times over the last year to see if updates had sorted it out nope its crap and tbh i feel cheated i even bought the Vista SP1/2 at gr8 exspense to try and imrove it but nope its a white elephant that should be lost in the vaults of time.



When XP came out it was crap.

If its 5 times slower you are doing something wrong.

Unless you are using ancient software you shouldn't have a problem with installations.

I bet you are using the x86 version with all that RAM with its 4GB limit which would explain the poor performance.

If you paid for service packs you have been conned.

You just bumped a thread started in 2007 which had been resolved.

Vista is good at last and most if not all of the problems resolved, I had it working on my old laptop with 512MB of RAM fine.

Try the Windows 7 release candidate.

a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 1:27:17 PM

its laughable when some crazy bongo digs up an old thread. more laughable when that same bongo boast his system setup

on xp i have a quad chip 2 4850x2 cards and 8 gig of ramn + 4 more said:
on xp i have a quad chip 2 4850x2 cards and 8 gig of ramn + 4 more


2 dx10 cards that never flexed its dx10 muscles.
!