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Is it a big mistake to buy a non-DX10-compatible card?

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May 1, 2007 2:18:02 PM

Im thinking of buying a notebook with a 7900 GS.. Just how importat do you guys believe will it have to have a cpr with a gfx card that is dx10 compatible? Some people seem to think it will be of extreme importance, while other say its not really a big deal at all. Am not too keen on buying something that is obsolete the next day.. Would appreciate some help in straightening things out so that Im not making a mistake.. Thanks.
May 1, 2007 2:22:35 PM

If anyone buying a new computer likely to be used for a modicum of graphics or HD video doesn't have to buy right now, they'd be better off waiting a couple of weeks.
May 1, 2007 2:28:11 PM

AKA if anyone is an ATI fanboy, they'd be better off waiting a few weeks.
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May 1, 2007 2:32:33 PM

Quote:
AKA if anyone is an ATI fanboy, they'd be better off waiting a few weeks.


No, rather just being able to be in a fully informed position and see all the facts and options of both DX10 and DX9 offerings from both major players.

That's sensible, not being a fanboy.
May 1, 2007 2:34:38 PM

Then say he might want to wait a few weeks to be fully informed.

Don't tell him he'll be "better off," because that implies that ATI is the better solution, which directly contradicts your claim of judging both to see which is better.

Yes.. you're a fanboy.
May 1, 2007 2:38:32 PM

Quote:
Then say he might want to wait a few weeks to be fully informed.

Don't tell him he'll be "better off," because that implies that ATI is the better solution, which directly contradicts your claim of judging both to see which is better.

Yes.. you're a fanboy.


No it doesn't, it implies wait and see. ATI could well be worse than the 8600's, and either way it seems it isn't likely to be available for the mobile market for some time anyway.

If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're either a fanboy or a troll.

I don't really care which, you're a tw*t either way and have made a mountain of a reasonable question and a reasonable answer.
May 1, 2007 2:45:52 PM

Direct X10 shouldn't be necessary for at least a year.

However, I agree with The_Abyss on this one. You should wait a little bit until the AMD launch. If nothing else, these will lower the price of existing GPU's! Pick up a 8800 GTS for ~$200.....hmmm......tasty.

EDIT: Completely missed that your looking into a LAPTOP. I personally have a 7900 GS based Dell XPS m1710, and I love it. It games pretty well, but make sure to get the 7200 RPM hard drive, or you will end up shooting it. :D 

Best of Luck
May 1, 2007 2:50:18 PM

Whatever abyss, you know you're wrong... especially when you failed to answer the OP's question.

Quote:
Im thinking of buying a notebook with a 7900 GS.. Just how importat do you guys believe will it have to have a cpr with a gfx card that is dx10 compatible? Some people seem to think it will be of extreme importance, while other say its not really a big deal at all. Am not too keen on buying something that is obsolete the next day.. Would appreciate some help in straightening things out so that Im not making a mistake.. Thanks.


CJZ, in terms of DX10 games, there's nothing really available right now, and vista drivers are on very shaky ground. However, several new games are sleighted to be produced by the end of this year and definately by next year that utilize DX10, and the vista drivers have been improving about every other week to a month.

If you are an avid gamer and need to stay on top of the latest games, then I would say that you would be hurting by about the end of next year. Now, I'm saying this because it all depends on your schedule of updating. If you upgrade your comp every other year, you should be fine getting a dx9 card now. If you keep one for 3+ years, you're probably going to be ok, but you may find that there are some things that you are missing. Either way though, right now DX10 is very new, so even a NEW DX10 card now will not be as good as a DX10 card in a year or so.

Basically, either way, whatever you get now (DX9 or DX10) is going to probably be out of date in about 2 years.



What COMPANY you go with for a DX10 card is a completely different discussion... and that's what comes in to play when you "wait a couple weeks."
May 1, 2007 2:53:57 PM

Quote:
Direct X10 shouldn't be necessary for at least a year.

However, I agree with The_Abyss on this one. You should wait a little bit until the AMD launch. If nothing else, these will lower the price of existing GPU's! Pick up a 8800 GTS for ~$200.....hmmm......tasty.

Best of Luck


Actually, based on the fact that the benchmarks we are seeing from the 2900XT doesn't live up to the hype it's been getting for the past 6 months, it's probably not going to make that much of a price difference in the market. A 320 GTS for $200 is possible.. but that's just about $30 away from where it is right now anyway.

As Abyss said, for notbooks, we're probably not going to see the change for awhile.. and it's not going to affect the bottom line price, because you're buying a notebook, not a card... so really, waiting for AMD/ATI to come out w/something is of little consequence to the OP in terms of DX10
May 1, 2007 2:56:08 PM

Unless I missed something noone has yet anounced a mobile DX10 card. There were the various comments and or rumours that ATI would have a full line inc. mobile but not even the rumour sites have mentioned any specific card.

You still should have a more complete answer in 13 days but if no mobile part is announced then I would move on. Given the power consuption of the better DX10 parts something like this may be the future of lap top gaming. Spreadsheets on the go and gaming at home/hotel.
May 1, 2007 2:59:26 PM

Quote:
AKA if anyone is an ATI fanboy, they'd be better off waiting a few weeks.


So because I'm waiting a few weeks I'm an ATI fanboy even though I'm planning to buy a 8800 GTS? The reason I'm waiting is because I hope that with the release of the X2900 series cards, the Nvidia prices will drop a bit.

I think you need to grow up. With your accusations of fanboysim, you're mainly showing that you are a Nvidia fanboy.

To the OP, I'd wait the couple weeks and then buy a DX10 card of your choice. Though there may not be any DX10 games around yet, the DX10 cards are generally showing better performance than a DX9 card when running in DX9. But that's my opinion and others may disagree for hteir own reasons.
May 1, 2007 3:01:16 PM

Thanks a lot all of you, especially you Phrost with that last answer which was more on a level that Im actually understanding what itll mean in practice :)  One more thing though, you said "would be hurting by about the end of next year". When saying this, do you mean as in I wont be able to play a great number of games at all, or that Ill be forced to play them with gfx options set to low? Cause today Im at an old desktop with a a radeon xt9800 and am still playing most games, albeit at low gfx options in some cases. Actually I encountered a game which I couldnt play (at all) for the first time this month (splinter cell double agent).

So when you say games will start utilizing dx10, do you mean they will require it or just that they will play better with it?

Again, thanks.
May 1, 2007 3:04:45 PM

Sailer.. why don't you take a moment to put everything into context?

- My comment was to Abyss because he said he would be "better off," while in fact there is no proof that the OP would be "better off" when the AMD card is released... unless, of course, that was the only thing he was worried about. In which case, yes he would be better off, because his favorite company's card would be released. Hence fanyboyism.
- The OP isn't looking for a card to buy... he's looking for a notebook to buy... so the release of the 2900 is of little consequence to him. Waiting a few weeks does little for him
May 1, 2007 3:09:40 PM

Quote:
Thanks a lot all of you, especially you Phrost with that last answer which was more on a level that Im actually understanding what itll mean in practice :)  One more thing though, you said "would be hurting by about the end of next year". When saying this, do you mean as in I wont be able to play a great number of games at all, or that Ill be forced to play them with gfx options set to low? Cause today Im at an old desktop with a a radeon xt9800 and am still playing most games, albeit at low gfx options in some cases. Actually I encountered a game which I couldnt play (at all) for the first time this month (splinter cell double agent).

So when you say games will start utilizing dx10, do you mean they will require it or just that they will play better with it?

Again, thanks.


As games start to come out in DX10, they will require it to be played with all their features, but they should still ba able to be played on DX9, just not with all the added features. I doubt that you'll be hurting next year if you buy a DX10 card today. It will take time for the companies to start stretching the limits of the present cards. Also, if a present DX10 card does fall behind, think of how much more a DX9 card would lag. Though I'm not advocating buying the top card available, like a 8800 GTX, I don't think its wise to buy an outdated technology either.
May 1, 2007 3:12:16 PM

Quote:
Thanks a lot all of you, especially you Phrost with that last answer which was more on a level that Im actually understanding what itll mean in practice :)  One more thing though, you said "would be hurting by about the end of next year". When saying this, do you mean as in I wont be able to play a great number of games at all, or that Ill be forced to play them with gfx options set to low? Cause today Im at an old desktop with a a radeon xt9800 and am still playing most games, albeit at low gfx options in some cases. Actually I encountered a game which I couldnt play (at all) for the first time this month (splinter cell double agent).

So when you say games will start utilizing dx10, do you mean they will require it or just that they will play better with it?

Again, thanks.



no no no no... you'll definately be able to play tons of games. I was referring to a situation in which you might be wanting to *mostly* play the latest and greatest. If that were the case, then yes, you may run into problems, but as I said, you would run into problems either way. Either the dx10 graphics option that you would buy *now* most likely wouldn't be up to snuff for DX10 stuff at the end of next year, and you definately wouldn't be able to play DX10 stuff on a DX9 card by the end of next year (unless this project actually comes to fruition: http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/ )

In short.. anything you get now should be decent for playing dx9 games for a long time to come. If there are enough titles now to keep you happy, then don't worry about the card you're getting. If you constantly want the latest and greatest, you're kind of hamstrung either way. The dx9 cards won't cut it (unless the alky project works) and the dx10 cards will be outclassed by dx10 cards in a year because the technology is so new.


EDIT: I'm actually like you, personally. I have a 9800proSE (128MB) card and it still does "ok" in CSS, fear, etc.. but I'm looking to upgrade, because I want to play these games better. Now, whether or not I will want to play the DX10 games is to be forseen. My big hangup is that I don't want to go to vista.... which, as of right now, you need for DX10.
May 1, 2007 3:14:34 PM

i think they only make full use of the dx10 card, but coming games will be playable at good framerates with dx9 capable cards, because of the simple fact that most people have dx9 cards and games need to be sold...

then again: a lot of people don`t have sm3.0 cards and there are a few games that can not run without it........ (rainbow six vegas, splinter cell double agent, spiderman 3)

but, looking back, it took a while before my old geforce4 ti4200 wasn`t supported by games so i guess a 7900gs mobile will give you most games for the next 2 years with reasonable settings.

don`t hate me when i`m wrong :wink:
May 1, 2007 3:27:20 PM

Quote:
Sailer.. why don't you take a moment to put everything into context?

- My comment was to Abyss because he said he would be "better off," while in fact there is no proof that the OP would be "better off" when the AMD card is released... unless, of course, that was the only thing he was worried about. In which case, yes he would be better off, because his favorite company's card would be released. Hence fanyboyism.
- The OP isn't looking for a card to buy... he's looking for a notebook to buy... so the release of the 2900 is of little consequence to him. Waiting a few weeks does little for him


A couple things here. While I was typing, several answers came out which indicated differently than what I was originally thinking. At the same time, I think the OP would be "better off' if for no others reasons than having additional choices available and the possibility of lower prices for whatever he was looking for in the first place.

Yes, I know the OP was looking for a notebook and I don't know if the 2900 will be available in notebooks or not. I'm assuming that it will, but assumptions can be wrong. If he needs a notebook now, then he should buy now and not be concerned about the 2900. If he can wait another couple weeks, it won't hurt him.
May 1, 2007 3:27:28 PM

Why doesnt someone write the "Omega Drivers" equivalent to DX10 for XP? Would make things easier.

1) Wait until Nov if you can, prices
2) Make up mind whether laptop is for gaming or work use
3) If and only if for gaming = get the best card available because upgrade options are always very limited with laptops. If for work, you might as well go very low end.
4) Rather get a desktop for gaming, then get a low end DX10 card. Will probably run better than your laptop in the long run, + the ability to upgrade.
May 1, 2007 3:34:00 PM

As far as I know, even if you did have a DX9 card and there were DX10 applications out, your card still wouldn't be 'obsolete' persay, you just wouldn't be able to see the DX10 eye candy, just like many, if not all, DX9 games can run on DX8 or even lower cards.
May 1, 2007 4:16:41 PM

Quote:
Then say he might want to wait a few weeks to be fully informed.

Don't tell him he'll be "better off," because that implies that ATI is the better solution, which directly contradicts your claim of judging both to see which is better.

Yes.. you're a fanboy.


OMG, he's just trying to help. Talk about a totally unprovocked fanboy attack... :roll: Excuse him for not saying it the way YOU think it should be said. Who cares what you think he implied???

To the OP: While you'll be fine for a while with a DX9 card, it wouldn't hurt to wait a few weeks to see what mobile DX10 offerings (Nvidia or ATI) there will be.
May 1, 2007 4:17:35 PM

Phrozt, it's worth waiting just for the price drop. Moron.
May 1, 2007 4:24:58 PM

Well i may be wrong and Donald Duck might be right but i can tell you for sure THERE IS GOING TO BE NO DX10 FOR WINXP sorry to shatter your dreams .


XP=no DX10 period :twisted:
May 1, 2007 4:28:52 PM

Quote:
OMG, he's just trying to help. Talk about a totally unprovocked fanboy attack... :roll: Excuse him for not saying it the way YOU think it should be said. Who cares what you think he implied???

Quote:
Phrozt, it's worth waiting just for the price drop. Moron.


Read the damn thread.

notebook != graphics card.

The AMD/nVidia GFX card war is of little interest to this poster as per his query, so bringing it up in the first place was retarded and served no purpose except for rooting for his favorite team.
May 1, 2007 4:32:21 PM

"Better off" doesn't just mean better performance. It can POSSIBLY mean lower prices on the NVidia stuff. Regardless, right now is a good time to wait and see if you can.

-TyShoe
May 1, 2007 4:47:48 PM

MS has said they will not be releasing DX10 for XP. Where did you get this info?
May 1, 2007 4:57:16 PM

Quote:
OMG, he's just trying to help. Talk about a totally unprovocked fanboy attack... :roll: Excuse him for not saying it the way YOU think it should be said. Who cares what you think he implied???

Quote:
Phrozt, it's worth waiting just for the price drop. Moron.


Read the damn thread.

notebook != graphics card.

The AMD/nVidia GFX card war is of little interest to this poster as per his query, so bringing it up in the first place was retarded and served no purpose except for rooting for his favorite team.

I did read the damn thread, and the question regarding his laptop was about the GPU. If he decides he wants DX10, then he should wait to see what both parties have to offer. No fanboyism here, just common sense (something you clearly lack).
May 1, 2007 5:49:06 PM

If you are a gamer and you are not going to upgrade your video card in the forseeable future (1-2 years), then you should buy a DX10 card. If you are going to upgrade your video card within 1 year then a DX9 card will be perfectly fine.
May 1, 2007 5:56:47 PM

Quote:
Microsoft "is" planning to release dx10 for windows xp just need to wait a little months more anyways much games doesn't work well if at all with dx10 so... dx9 all the way for the next 1-2 years


Now that deserves a link. Sure there are third parties who will try but Microsoft? To be fair I will provide this link. This is from the DX10 FAQ at MSDN.

Quote:
Will DirectX 10 be available for Windows XP?
No. Windows Vista, which has DirectX 10, includes an updated DirectX runtime based on the runtime in Windows XP SP2 (DirectX 9.0c) with changes to work with the new Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) and the new audio driver stack, and with other updates in the operating system. In addition to Direct3D 9, Windows Vista supports two new interfaces when the correct video hardware and drivers are present: Direct3D9Ex and Direct3D10.

Since these new interfaces rely on the WDDM technology, they will never be available on earlier versions of Windows. All the other changes made to DirectX technologies for Windows Vista are also specific to the new version of Windows. The name DirectX 10 is misleading in that many technologies shipping in the DirectX SDK (XACT, XINPUT, D3DX) are not encompassed by this version number. So, referring to the version number of the DirectX runtime as a whole has lost much of its meaning, even for 9.0c. The DirectX Diagnostic Tool (DXdiag.exe) on Windows Vista does report DirectX 10, but this really only refers to Direct3D 10.
May 1, 2007 6:34:33 PM

if you dont really care for dx10 support then getting a dx9 card is fine, you wont see that much of a performance difference going from dx9 to dx10. Personally i would go with dx10 but its really about user preference, if you care about running upcoming games in all their dx10 glory then get a dx10 card, if not then dont.
May 1, 2007 6:53:31 PM

I got a HIS X1900XT IceQ3 256MB a few months ago and it handles every game I throw at it (1680x1050) and Vista 64 bit just fine.

It was going to be my temp card while I wait for dx10 cards to come out (ati that is). I plan to upgrade at some point but I'm not in any hurry.
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