Gaming PC

[cimpercee]

I've been wondering whats wrong if you buy a MOBO with a minimum SPECS and CPU but a powerful VCARD and RAM. Would it still be delivering an optimal performance? I see a lot of forums of gaming PC, I dont understand why would people go like Core2. But this is not putting Core2 down. Just thinking why dual-core wont be enough? I dont think Vista benefits on 4-cores + the fact that the 3.8 GHZ of cpu has not yet been surpassed. Thats what I know,(please correct me if Im wrong). I guess theres no speed 4.0+GHZ. I'de like to hear from you guys, I dont have any Idea why you build PC like this. Is there a benifit on the CPU for more FPS?The way I know, FPS is depended on Vcard + the CACHE of CPU.(How will a 4100AMD + 7900gt differ from 3600 + 7900gt)For the mobo I understand OC'ers though.

2nd Thing I would like to know:
1) Why is it that the price for a Nvidia 7900GT is more expensive than 8600GTS. Im confused because I know 8600GTS will be on same performance of that 7900GTX --http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1848/

Is it because this year there are only few DX10Games and Drivers are not yet perfect?

Im sorry to ask questions like this, I live on Philippines and Technology here is a year behind.

Thanks!

 

[heltoupee]

Well, you have to look at the system as a whole and find the right components that strike a good balance for what you want to do. Let's say I put a 8800GTX and 4 Gig of the fastest RAM I can find in an older MB with a slower CPU. Most games, unless you turn detail settings up extremely high are going to be CPU-limited, meaning that the VCARD can finish processing a frame before your CPU gets done doing it's thing. That's bad because you are wasting the performance of your expensive video card.

As I see it, expensive motherboards add features. If you read overclocking articles, the boards that are capable of the highest speeds are usually more budget-minded. I will usually pick one of these as long as it has the features I need.

if you're not overclocking, Performance RAM is a waste of money. Get something compatible and get enough of it, and let it do it's thing.

Price differences are there because the 8xxx parts are new, and Nvidia is putting price pressure on ATI in the mid range. The prices of 7xxx parts will fall, but distributors that bought their stock of those cards several months back paid a higher wholesale price for those as well. Those distributors with large stock of 7xxx parts are going to lose some money as they will have to lower prices on 7xxx parts or they'll just sit on shelves instead of selling to break even, or even at a small loss. This is the time that everyone that bought a 7900GTX right when they came out for a high price will be picking up another at a slashed price to set up SLI in their rig.

People build rediculously expensive PC's like this because they can; because having the best and the fastest, even for just a few short weeks before the next best thing comes along, is important to them. After a point, it really is just bragging rights. Analyze your needs, like what games do you want to play and with what settings enabled?, what else do you want to do with it?, how soon can you afford a new machine?, how long can you get by with what you have now?, etc. and check benchmarks to find what you can get to hopefully meet your needs within your budget -- that's my philosophy.

Wow, I do ramble on, don't I

 

[cimpercee]

Ok. Thanks for the reply esp on the marketing...
I know what I need. I guess the topic is titled wrongly. You were right about wasting Vcard if CPU is not Good Enough. A guy told me here that a 3200Sempron would handle x1950 and that vcard is fast.but i dont know if he is right.so Putting a 4100 or above for a vcard of x1950,is it a waste? my need is just a balance on a certain Vcard(enough CPU to process the frames)to unleash its full power.

Can you help me look for the Least CPU to handle a 2GB ddr800 (basic) + 8600GTS?

and a cpu if i go SLI

Thanks again!

 

[quantumsheep]

DONT GET AN 8600GTS!! The price perf ratio is absolutely horrible. Either get the 7900GT (it easily beats the 8600GTS) or spend the little extra and grab yourself an 8800GTS 320mb (i saw some for ~$200).

 

[cimpercee]

Is that true? 200$(8800 gts) but that should be exact 200$ coz more than that I would not spend. The thing is that I live here on the philippines and my brother will be the one sending me the vcard. I dont know anything about marketing there, but he says there will be additional 13% tax + shipping. Thats what im concerned of. What manufacturer? I cant afford to have incompatiblity issues and send the card back to Canada from here. my mobo is Gigabyte GA-M61VME

S2http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2439&ModelName=GA-M61VME-S2

 

[heltoupee]

Ahh.. You're getting there, but we still need to know what games you're going to be playing, and especially what resolution you'll be playing them at. You see, If you've got a monitor capable of 1920x1200, then the video card is going to have quite a bit more to do than if you can only display 1024x768. It's the lower range we're worried about, because the CPU has the same amount to do regardless of resolution. To find out the slowest CPU you can get away with, you want to make sure that the video card is just barely the limiting factor at the resolution (and quality settings, anti-aliasing, filtering, etc) that you choose. Either way, it's not going to make a game unplayable, and at worst, you may just lose 10 to 15 FPS (out of around 100 possible) at 1024x768.

What kind of a budget do you have, and where can you shop, and I can make better recommendations. Right now, with the caliber of parts you're looking at, I'm thinking a lower-end athlon 64 X2 - 4000+ or 4200+ would work great. If you've got a touch more cash to spend, Core2Duo 6300 or 6400 would be great, use less power, and is probably a better chip, but AMD keeps dropping their prices, so you can get good stuff from them cheaper.

Toms has some great benchmark charts up that, while don't contain the parts you are looking at, offer some comparisons and will show you what I mean by CPU limited. Look at this one for example. Notice how the numbers go up to a point, and then the gains of the next fastest card just stop? That's where the game became CPU limited (at that resolution and quality settings). If that's not happening with the game/resolution/quality you're concerned with, I'd say that you shouldn't worry. Granted - these benchmarks are done with the fastest processors available at the time, but they're also done with graphics cards that are way more powerful than what you're looking at, and, in general, graphics card performance scales back much faster than CPU performance.

Bottom line, pick a couple of the VGA charts I linked to, and see if, at the resolutions and settings you would like to use if:
1.) you're going to get playable framerates with a card of equal performance (the 7900GTX will be on par with 8600GTS, from what you said.)
2.) if the framerates are acceptable, then look up the chart at the high-end cards - do you see that CPU-limited drop-off? If it happens right around where the 7900GTX is on the chart or below, then you may want to think about a faster processor. Even think about a faster processor if it happens a bit higher than that, because these charts were built with the fastest CPU they could find. If you don't see a drop-off like that at all, then you'll be fine with what I've suggested. At that point, it's time to take a look at your budget and find the best deal (AMD 64 X2's are dirt cheap right now, but Intel's price cuts are coming, too. Time will always bring lower prices)

Good luck!

Ohh, just saw that other post - yeah, I'll kinda have to agree. Looking at Toms coverage of the 8600, it seems a little under-whelming price/performance-wise. Oh, and it looks like Tom just posted his best gaming cards for the money. I'd give SERIOUS consideration to what that article has to say. Have fun!

 

[quantumsheep]

I don't know much about that motherboard i'm afraid and i was talking $200 US dollars from a store in the USA that only delivers to the USA so i'm afraid you can't order it if you're recieving it from Canada!

Although i would still recommend that you get a 7900GT instead of the 8600GTS, it really was a massive disappointment. If the rumour of a 256bit 8600GTs are true, then after that update it will be a viable option. But for now i would avoid it.

 

[heltoupee]

For 200 bucks Canadian, you're probably looking at either a 7600GT (great card for the money!! just look at my sig :lol: ) or a Radeon X1950 Pro (possibly a little out of budget) or a 7900GS (although I've heard bad stuff about them...)

Compatibility shouldn't be a problem at all as long as the board has a PCI-E x16 slot.

Edit: just looked at Gigabyte's site, and it's a Nforce 400 board with integrated 6100 graphics. Any brand of card should work fine. Update to the newest BIOS before installing a new athlon 64 x2, as some boards needed a flash before they would recognize an x2 with a Brisbane core (which would probably be what you are getting if you decide to upgrade) I got bit by this one.

 

[cimpercee]

Im happy gaming @ 1024 x 768...
Want to see some nice grapichs and FPS 60-70. My eyes wont be processing 60 I guess. I just move on to gaming, my PC is basic. processor of 3200+ SEMPRON. I like playing games like Company of heroes, and for the coming World of conflict maybe if Philippines will be involving WOW, i would be playing that too. Right now I have 1GB of ram. I will first want some FPS improvements, by now i only have 7600GS. im stuck at around 30 FPS. I wanted DX10 because of the patch coming from COH for DX10 support.

Is 8600GTS really that diapointing dispite of the DX10? how close is it compare to the performance of 7900GT. You see in here, 7900GT costs 18500PHP and Converted to USD that is $391. Thats a huge price jump on newegg. I dont really care about 256-bit and 128-bit that much,I guess 8 Series is different line of technology compared to 7 series.I guess Steam Processors are different from shader units of older cards.6600GT is better than 5900 though 256-bit.(correct me if im wrong)

 

[cimpercee]

ummm 200USD not canadian. My bro lives on canada, but he knows its 200USD.

 

[heltoupee]

OK, 200USD. That will make comparisons much easier. I didn't know where you/he was planning on shopping, so didn't know what currency we were using.

Read the best gaming cards for the money that I posted earlier. It has some very good answers to these questions.

The 8600GTS is benchmarked against other cards in the other article I posted. at 1024x768, it looks like an 8600GTS runs neck-and-neck with an x1950 Pro (Specifically the Sapphire X1950 Pro Ultimate), and under a 7900GTX (7900GT wasn't on the charts, but I think it performs just under the 7900GTX, too). Have a look at the Last page of the review and you'll get a no-nonsense recommendation on the 8600GTS. They seem to think it's still a bit expensive.

Could you tell me exactly where you (or your brother) will be buying from (like the actual website), and we can pin down prices a bit better.

Granted, the 8600 is new, and DX10, but we still don't know what, if anything, DX10 is going to really bring to games in the future. I would hate to spend the extra cash only to find out that DX10 doesn't offer much in the way of visual or speed improvements, and I could have had a part the same speed for 30 or 40 bucks less.

oh, yeah, and I'm thinking that upgrading that processor might help out a bit, too. Athlon 64 X2 3800+ is going for 70 bucks on newegg right now, (60 bucks for a 3600+) and would make some difference, but the money may be better spent on the graphics card.

 

[cimpercee]

I dont really know where my brother will buy or if he buys online. But I will appreciate it if you can help me find places he can buy on CA online or not that may cost cheaper.I have less knowledge about buying there,because i have not been there. :lol: . I will be sticking with Gigabyte though.The idea of DX10 is here, games are being develop,screenies and videos show, Im sure,if there are problems, they wont stop till perfect. Hehehe, humans are never contented. Thanks for the time.

I appreciate it.