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"AMD: 45nm, DDR3 and Socket AM3 in 2008"

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May 2, 2007 1:33:59 PM

Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
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EnjoyYy
May 2, 2007 1:56:36 PM

Future plans can and do change. Not that I have much faith in AMD right now.
May 2, 2007 2:00:33 PM

I hope they do not, if K10 is still a future plan then its a pretty bad situation. The roadmap is more aggresive and I don't think they would stick to it. Let's wait and see.
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May 2, 2007 2:06:12 PM

as you said tho where is K10 (i know i know Q3)
im not all that interested in next year until they can deliver on this year's promises or provide some info
a b à CPUs
May 2, 2007 2:34:06 PM

Interesting read. I hope AMD stays on schedule with the AM3. But I noticed where they said the roadmap for AM3 from 2006 is not the same as AM3 for 2008. The 2006 AM3 will become the AM2+? It seems as though AMD wants to keep the AM number deisgnation consistent with the memory support, i.e.; AM2 and AM2+ support DDR2 whereas AM3 supports DDR3. I look forward to the performance gain DDR3 brings given the noticeable performance boost it gave video cards.

Memory support aside, I'm more interested in socket compatibility. If AMD can repeat their Skt939 success with AM2/AM3 and make cpu upgrades a matter of a simple BIOS update, then they'll be able to keep the enthusiasts happy. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
May 2, 2007 3:25:50 PM

Quote:
But first where is K10? Period!


Hmm ... let's see, we have a few choices here...
1)It was kidnapped by aliens ...
2) The monster of Lockness ate it ...
...
:lol: 
May 2, 2007 4:27:20 PM

Outside of the usual promises that they will not deliver behind schedule like they have in the past, I got a distinct impression that AM2/AM3 compatibility may not be as expected. Obviously, we need to get closer to release before we know what is going to happen.
May 2, 2007 5:28:33 PM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Call me sceptical but I live in the UK and so far I can’t get a hold of any the recent AMD chips namely the Energy Efficient chips or any of the new 65nm chips, not to mention the R600 delays.

Frankly AMD should concentrate on getting these products to market first rather then worry about trying to catch up with Intel with its paper launches.
May 2, 2007 5:46:20 PM

how can they talk about 45nm native quadcores with bigger l3 cache's when we haven't seen one 65nm native quad!?

I AM OFFENDED SIR!! YOU INSULT MY HONOR!
May 2, 2007 5:49:24 PM

It is always more pleasant to talk about the future when the present stinks.
May 2, 2007 6:23:43 PM

Quote:

Call me sceptical but I live in the UK and so far I can’t get a hold of any the recent AMD chips namely the Energy Efficient chips or any of the new 65nm chips, not to mention the R600 delays.

Frankly AMD should concentrate on getting these products to market first rather then worry about trying to catch up with Intel with its paper launches.

Interesting, in my country (Lithuania) its hard to get any AMD cpu NOT 65nm :) 

As much as everyone is blaming AMD for R600, it wasnt really their fault. Their joined the party when R600 was already almost "cooked" :wink: From what we know, R600 was slowish and power hungry (~240W rumoured), so I think its where AMD steped in and postponed for ~3 months and pushed hard 65nm release.

We will see real AMD produced video cards in R700 or even R800, since R700 team should be working for some time now, as all chip makers have several teams working on two-three next gen cards/cpu's.
May 2, 2007 6:31:28 PM

Quote:
AMD doesnt like 65nm. Its only got a spotlight life of under a yearon k10. and to date is there shortest lived node.

I think 65nm is really problematic for AMD.

I agree 65nm was short lived node for AMD, but I'm not aware of their problems at this tech, majority of their cpus and video cards released as we speak are 65nm. Actually AMD forced ATI to migrate from 80nm to 65nm in less than 6 months afaik.

Even if they had some issues at the start with 65nm, its already ironed out, so IMO push to 45nm is based on "being on giant shoulders" - IBM. If IBM can provide more or less smooth transition for AMD to 45nm, then the faster they migrate, the better for them from any point of view, since Intel is heavily pressuring them atm.
May 2, 2007 7:05:55 PM

poor 65nm...trying to kill amd...
May 2, 2007 7:12:38 PM

maybe they cancelled barc or intend it to be in boutique quantities until the 45nm switch, and this is their way of admitting that Barc IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME...
May 2, 2007 7:13:30 PM

Quote:
AMD doesnt like 65nm. Its only got a spotlight life of under a yearon k10. and to date is there shortest lived node.

I think 65nm is really problematic for AMD.


if 65nm is problematic for AMD, then won't the transition to 45nm be even more problematic even if (as some other poster said) IBM is helping them in the transition to 45nm. If it is so, then isn't IBM helping AMD with 65nm tech?
May 2, 2007 7:17:20 PM

Quote:
maybe they cancelled barc or intend it to be in boutique quantities until the 45nm switch, and this is their way of admitting that Barc IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME...


then this means that Intel will not only be ahead of AMD in processor manufacturing process (45nm) but also in the uArch of the processors itself (Nehalem '08) and then Gesher (Sandy Bridge). Intresting, let's wait and see. It seems like another win for Intel even before the war started.
May 2, 2007 7:26:11 PM

Quote:
AMD doesnt like 65nm. Its only got a spotlight life of under a yearon k10. and to date is there shortest lived node.

I think 65nm is really problematic for AMD.


if 65nm is problematic for AMD, then won't the transition to 45nm be even more problematic even if (as some other poster said) IBM is helping them in the transition to 45nm. If it is so, then isn't IBM helping AMD with 65nm tech?

They spent as long on researching 45 nm as intel and posted test drams of it around when intel did. So no; They wanted to skip 65nm alltogether but were forced by c2d to produce on it. They essentially had next to nothing for 65nm but transition chips.

I don't remember AMD showing any SRAM for 45nm like Intel did (maybe I missed). If AMD had already decided to skip 65nm, don't they have to completely re-tool there fabs? from where they were going to get the money? they bought out ATi which is not producing competitive enough GPUs. I think AMD should stop all the things they are currently doing. Restart with new plans, build on currently what they have. Come up with a new Architecture, maybe focus on torrenza or maybe materialize what they have on paper about Barcelona uArch. Then make a come back and compete with Intel, otherwise they should accept that they are now way behind Intel (if they really have canceled Barcelona).
May 2, 2007 7:37:29 PM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Nice.
I still have a few years of service on my 939 builds from last year however.

Buy the time my won't run new games correctly this new stuff will be old and cheap.
May 2, 2007 7:40:29 PM

any link on that so that I can read on it. And yes, I'm bit out of the loop but I'll catch up. I used to read TomsHardware but now they talk more about cars than CPU/GPU/Motherboards/HDD etc etc...
May 2, 2007 7:54:22 PM

Hmm, this situation seems familiar.
http://news.com.com/Intel+makes+performance+claims,+AMD...
Quote:
"It's driven by the fact that they can't talk about their current products, because everybody knows their current products aren't very good," said Henri Richard

I don't know if it's karma or what. But it seems almost everything AMD has said and done it the past few years is coming around to bite them in the ass.
May 2, 2007 7:56:27 PM

Quote:
Hmm, this situation seems familiar.
http://news.com.com/Intel+makes+performance+claims,+AMD...
"It's driven by the fact that they can't talk about their current products, because everybody knows their current products aren't very good," said Henri Richard

I don't know if it's karma or what. But it seems almost everything AMD has said and done it the past few years is coming around to bite them in the ass.

you see what goes around comes around! :twisted: :lol: 
a c 102 à CPUs
May 2, 2007 8:00:53 PM

I think that it is in fact ready for the prime time. However, I think that AMD will barely give a peep about K10 until it's virtually already been rolled out. Why? Intel has working 45 nm silicon and everybody knows it. Intel is also not afraid to push designs to their melting point if that is what it takes, and everybody knows that too. AMD is scared that if they tip their hand too early, Intel will realize exactly what it is that they have to beat. And they know Intel will put an even bigger foot up their butt of the engineers and get Penryn out sooner if that it what it takes to do so. If AMD can keep Intel unaware as long as possible, or lead them along into thinking that the K10 is a flop, it will maximize the time that it has an advantage over Intel and maximize profits.

AMD isn't big enough to battle Intel head-on and win, especially in a field where there is a significant R&D and capital cost. AMD has to be clever in how they do things in order to be able to pick up a little more share here and there without getting being forced into a war of attrition that they'd never win. They did get into one of those with the recent price war and look at what it did. Intel had to lay off workers, but they are now turning a profit. AMD is still bleeding. That is why AMD bought ATi- it's an area in which they can have a competitive advantage over Intel without having to fight them directly.
a b à CPUs
May 2, 2007 8:19:25 PM

AMD= All talk and no actions (yet) :evil: 
a c 102 à CPUs
May 2, 2007 8:27:43 PM

How is that funny? The Pentium D 800 and Xeon DP Paxville stank and the dual-core Opterons and Athlon 64 X2s walked all over them. The case is different now, but that was 100% true back then.
May 2, 2007 8:29:00 PM

http://www.physorg.com/news8797.html <== This is about 65nm not 45nm.

Quote:
AMD, IBM Unveil New, Higher Performance, More Power Efficient 65nm Process Technologies
In papers presented at the International Electron Devices Meeting (IEDM) in Washington, D.C., IBM and AMD today detailed their progress in bringing new, advanced semiconductor process technologies and materials to the 65 nanometer technology generation.


http://www.physorg.com/news85247225.html <== This is about 45nm same article as http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,...

nothing new just about papers and thats all!
May 2, 2007 8:36:43 PM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Well, considerng that they said May for samples, June for shipments, I guess it's somewhere between Dresden and OEMs. I have no word on NDAs so I can't say if they will drop numbers before June.

But anyway, why is everyone so negative? There is a story on ZDNet about how AMD was smart to use the convertible notes as they have done it before and it worked out so they could do Fab36 and Opteron.

K10 will be exactly what they say as K8 had a similar lack of confidence from peple who ended up buyng ONLY X2.

I am probably more anxius to see numbers than anyone but we're ot talkng about a skateboard release but a several hundred million transistor CPU.
It takes how long it takes. My hope is that they have a few hundred thousand ready (at least 200K). I really hope that they don't hold back on Agena FX.

I still expect Kuma to do 60-80% over Brisbane and Agena FX to do 120-160% over FX. The specs say it all and they look a lot like Core 2 in MANY ways.

If they can get even 1.3-1.5 loads/stores per cycle it will be awesome. If they get closer to 2.0 it will be an even GREATER monster.

I just hope that when it lives up to the hype you guys will post as many apology posts as ones like this.

ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY!!
May 2, 2007 8:39:57 PM

Quote:
http://news.com.com/Intel+makes+performance+claims%2C+A...

Heres where AMD fell down in response to the core architecture. :lol: 


You're right they should have said:

"Intel has defeated us with a CPU that does't exist yet. We are so pathetic we're going to forego even releasing a new architecture."

Coach this is REALLY kind of gay.
May 2, 2007 8:42:17 PM

Will this be available in OUR universe or only alternate universes?

I HIGHLY doubt it.
May 2, 2007 8:47:02 PM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Well, considerng that they said May for samples, June for shipments, I guess it's somewhere between Dresden and OEMs. I have no word on NDAs so I can't say if they will drop numbers before June.

But anyway, why is everyone so negative? There is a story on ZDNet about how AMD was smart to use the convertible notes as they have done it before and it worked out so they could do Fab36 and Opteron.

K10 will be exactly what they say as K8 had a similar lack of confidence from peple who ended up buyng ONLY X2.

I am probably more anxius to see numbers than anyone but we're ot talkng about a skateboard release but a several hundred million transistor CPU.
It takes how long it takes. My hope is that they have a few hundred thousand ready (at least 200K). I really hope that they don't hold back on Agena FX.

I still expect Kuma to do 60-80% over Brisbane and Agena FX to do 120-160% over FX. The specs say it all and they look a lot like Core 2 in MANY ways.

If they can get even 1.3-1.5 loads/stores per cycle it will be awesome. If they get closer to 2.0 it will be an even GREATER monster.

I just hope that when it lives up to the hype you guys will post as many apology posts as ones like this.

ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY!!

First of all I'm not negative about AMD. Its good that AMD is optimistic about its future roadmap, its just that they should have demonstrated something about its new uArch processor, something so that we can say that they have sampled it. and I don't think that I'll have to apologies just for informing about AMD's future plans.
May 2, 2007 11:25:23 PM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Call me sceptical but I live in the UK and so far I can’t get a hold of any the recent AMD chips namely the Energy Efficient chips or any of the new 65nm chips, not to mention the R600 delays.

Frankly AMD should concentrate on getting these products to market first rather then worry about trying to catch up with Intel with its paper launches.


The world market is a lot bigger than the UK and the cheaper chips will go to emerging markets first and then the smaller markets while the more expensive chips go to larger countries as their average income is higher and thereby more able to afford the more expensive chips.
May 3, 2007 12:00:17 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Call me sceptical but I live in the UK and so far I can’t get a hold of any the recent AMD chips namely the Energy Efficient chips or any of the new 65nm chips, not to mention the R600 delays.

Frankly AMD should concentrate on getting these products to market first rather then worry about trying to catch up with Intel with its paper launches.


The world market is a lot bigger than the UK and the cheaper chips will go to emerging markets first and then the smaller markets while the more expensive chips go to larger countries as their average income is higher and thereby more able to afford the more expensive chips.
....are you suggesting that UK is a small country, that its people cannot afford the more expensive chips?
May 3, 2007 12:03:55 AM

no it is just that most do not have running water, much less modern electricity... ;) 
May 3, 2007 12:07:06 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy

Unless AMD is stupid, we won't see K10 anytime soon. It might sound funny but Intel is losing money on every conroe it sells, AMD not.

AMD has already depreciated its K8 R&D costs. Why would they engage in Intel's senseless price war and make virtually zero profit by launching their new technology, i.e. K10, at today's low price levels?

Therefore, AMD will most likely wait until prices go up to a reasonable (profitable) level and/or until Intel has lost enough and only then release its new product.

At least this is what I would have done.
May 3, 2007 12:21:23 AM

Quote:
Unless AMD is stupid, we won't see K10 anytime soon.


Aww :(  When do you think we will see it?

Quote:
It might sound funny but Intel is losing money on every conroe it sells, AMD not.


lol

Quote:
Why would they engage in Intel's senseless price war and make virtually zero profit by launching their new technology, i.e. K10, at today's low price levels?


lol. If they were to launch today, they would be more expensive then the 6000+ at ~$240. If they were to launch in Q3, they'd have to compete with a $266 quad Conroe. The further they delay it, the cheaper it will have to be.

Quote:
Therefore, AMD will most likely wait until prices go up to a reasonable (profitable) level and/or until Intel has lost enough and only then release its new product.

At least this is what I would have done.


Prices will not go up! Higher prices will possibly be introduced with better products but current product isn't going to go back to "healthy" level (3800 X2@$350 in 2005, $140 mid 2006, $80 now).
May 3, 2007 2:23:57 AM

Quote:

Call me sceptical but I live in the UK and so far I can’t get a hold of any the recent AMD chips namely the Energy Efficient chips or any of the new 65nm chips, not to mention the R600 delays.

Frankly AMD should concentrate on getting these products to market first rather then worry about trying to catch up with Intel with its paper launches.

Interesting, in my country (Lithuania) its hard to get any AMD cpu NOT 65nm :) 

As much as everyone is blaming AMD for R600, it wasnt really their fault. Their joined the party when R600 was already almost "cooked" :wink: From what we know, R600 was slowish and power hungry (~240W rumoured), so I think its where AMD steped in and postponed for ~3 months and pushed hard 65nm release.

We will see real AMD produced video cards in R700 or even R800, since R700 team should be working for some time now, as all chip makers have several teams working on two-three next gen cards/cpu's.

I havent seen a whole lot of people casting blame. Ive seen more "WTF happend?" and "maybe new drivers will help" Aside from which, R600 is ATI. I doubt other than a whole lot of "can you make it cheaper to produce?..", "when is it going to be ready?..", "yes, we'll delay the launch date so you can tweak it" that AMD had a whole lot of influence over it
May 3, 2007 2:26:32 AM

Quote:
I think that it is in fact ready for the prime time. However, I think that AMD will barely give a peep about K10 until it's virtually already been rolled out. Why? Intel has working 45 nm silicon and everybody knows it. Intel is also not afraid to push designs to their melting point if that is what it takes, and everybody knows that too. AMD is scared that if they tip their hand too early, Intel will realize exactly what it is that they have to beat. And they know Intel will put an even bigger foot up their butt of the engineers and get Penryn out sooner if that it what it takes to do so. If AMD can keep Intel unaware as long as possible, or lead them along into thinking that the K10 is a flop, it will maximize the time that it has an advantage over Intel and maximize profits.

AMD isn't big enough to battle Intel head-on and win, especially in a field where there is a significant R&D and capital cost. AMD has to be clever in how they do things in order to be able to pick up a little more share here and there without getting being forced into a war of attrition that they'd never win. They did get into one of those with the recent price war and look at what it did. Intel had to lay off workers, but they are now turning a profit. AMD is still bleeding. That is why AMD bought ATi- it's an area in which they can have a competitive advantage over Intel without having to fight them directly.


But sadly, AMD demonstrated they werent clever enough to realize when the right time to buy ATI was
a c 102 à CPUs
May 3, 2007 2:41:14 AM

I think that they had the ATi deal in the works for some time. What they didn't think is that Intel would start a price war with them.
May 3, 2007 2:41:28 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy


Well, considerng that they said May for samples, June for shipments, I guess it's somewhere between Dresden and OEMs. I have no word on NDAs so I can't say if they will drop numbers before June.

But anyway, why is everyone so negative? There is a story on ZDNet about how AMD was smart to use the convertible notes as they have done it before and it worked out so they could do Fab36 and Opteron.

K10 will be exactly what they say as K8 had a similar lack of confidence from peple who ended up buyng ONLY X2.

I am probably more anxius to see numbers than anyone but we're ot talkng about a skateboard release but a several hundred million transistor CPU.
It takes how long it takes. My hope is that they have a few hundred thousand ready (at least 200K). I really hope that they don't hold back on Agena FX.

I still expect Kuma to do 60-80% over Brisbane and Agena FX to do 120-160% over FX. The specs say it all and they look a lot like Core 2 in MANY ways.

If they can get even 1.3-1.5 loads/stores per cycle it will be awesome. If they get closer to 2.0 it will be an even GREATER monster.

I just hope that when it lives up to the hype you guys will post as many apology posts as ones like this.

ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY!!

Appologies? Proof positive that you dont read. If you did, you would see that everyone wants K10 to do well. If you did read, you would see the people who bothered to take the time reading what very little factual evidence is out thinks it will perform well. If you did read, you would know that what people arent buying is "henri said this" or "this guys second cousin by marraige twice removed says he knows somebody whose a janitor at AMD, who read through some memos in the trash they were taking out that says the marketing department thinks simulations of K10 will perform 40% better than opteron".

No ones even hyping K10 yet except the fanbois, and theyre hyping the same way they hyped 65nm, AM2 and QFX. You need benchmarks to hype...you know benchmarks......compartive metrics. Youd better hope K10 doesnt live up to the hype, because if it lives up to the hype the same way 65nm, AM2 and QFX did, its going to underperform just like R600...another product that failed to meet fanboy hype.

BTW, as Im sure even you've noticed, other than to provide something to debunk, not a lot of people care about your "expectations" as theyve been proven wrong too many times. Say, hows that QFX? Been running Crysis on it? Reading about the courtroom drama of the Nvidia driver courtcase? Devising new ways to discharge static electricity from styrofoam?

The only people who currently owe applogies are you and lordpope, and thats not going to change after the release of K10.
May 3, 2007 2:42:46 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy

Unless AMD is stupid, we won't see K10 anytime soon. It might sound funny but Intel is losing money on every conroe it sells, AMD not.

AMD has already depreciated its K8 R&D costs. Why would they engage in Intel's senseless price war and make virtually zero profit by launching their new technology, i.e. K10, at today's low price levels?

Therefore, AMD will most likely wait until prices go up to a reasonable (profitable) level and/or until Intel has lost enough and only then release its new product.

At least this is what I would have done.

Sharimoron?
May 3, 2007 2:44:49 AM

Quote:
I think that they had the ATi deal in the works for some time. What they didn't think is that Intel would start a price war with them.


I agree. I also dont beleive AMD expected Intel to actually produce something better than its own crapburst Uarch. But by chance or intent, the timing turned out to be a later than optimal.
May 3, 2007 3:13:16 AM

Yawn, AMD is just trying to build confidence in products it will never release. Penryn 45nm and DDR3 are just a few months away ..

While they're at it AMD can release that perpetual motion machine and gravity amplifier they have been working on.
May 3, 2007 3:15:16 AM

Quote:
The magic HD-DVD number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Better keep an eye out for Sonys lawyers.
May 3, 2007 3:20:10 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy

Unless AMD is stupid, we won't see K10 anytime soon. It might sound funny but Intel is losing money on every conroe it sells, AMD not.

AMD has already depreciated its K8 R&D costs. Why would they engage in Intel's senseless price war and make virtually zero profit by launching their new technology, i.e. K10, at today's low price levels?

Therefore, AMD will most likely wait until prices go up to a reasonable (profitable) level and/or until Intel has lost enough and only then release its new product.

At least this is what I would have done.

You are so funny!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Oh yeah, AMD has deep pockets and can afford to hold back thier KL8 codenamed Morom processor! Another chip of the shoulder of ye ol Duron+Athlon's of yesteryear...
Still ROFLMAO! :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :trophy:
May 3, 2007 3:26:52 AM

Quote:
Check This Out! But first where is K10? Period!

Good Comments/Suggestion => ON
Flames => OFF

EnjoyYy

Unless AMD is stupid, we won't see K10 anytime soon. It might sound funny but Intel is losing money on every conroe it sells, AMD not.

AMD has already depreciated its K8 R&D costs. Why would they engage in Intel's senseless price war and make virtually zero profit by launching their new technology, i.e. K10, at today's low price levels?

Therefore, AMD will most likely wait until prices go up to a reasonable (profitable) level and/or until Intel has lost enough and only then release its new product.

At least this is what I would have done.
too much sharikou, bud? :wink:
May 3, 2007 3:28:34 AM

Quote:
The magic HD-DVD number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Better keep an eye out for Sonys lawyers.
nah, if you do that, Sony will probably spend loads of money to help you. :lol: 

Sony represents BlueRay, and currently, they're in the middle of the war with HD-DVD.
May 3, 2007 3:33:07 AM

Quote:
nah, if you do that, Sony will probably spend loads of money to help you. :lol: 

Sony represents BlueRay, and currently, they're in the middle of the war with HD-DVD.


Actually I think the number applies to Blu-ray also .. similar scheme.
May 3, 2007 3:36:58 AM

Quote:
The magic HD-DVD number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Better keep an eye out for Sonys lawyers.
nah, if you do that, Sony will probably spend loads of money to help you. :lol: 

Sony represents BlueRay, and currently, they're in the middle of the war with HD-DVD.

Yeah, but they're also a major $ contributor to RIAA and MPAA.

Man, its gotta be tormenting Sony.....go after the copyright violaters or watch Toshiba and NEC squirm :lol:  :lol:  :wink:
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