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Which AGP is better? 7600gs/x1650

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a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 12:53:44 AM

I was wondering which one was better. The 7600 gs or the x1650? Or is there a better one for this setup. I was going to spend about $100 for the video card for an upgrade to a 9800pro 128mb that is currently in my sons computer.

Computer:
P4 3.2 Prescott
9800 128mb video
1 gig 3200 DDR
400 watt PSU (sorry don't know 12V rail info yet)
80gig HD
DVD ROM

Thanks in advance for the information and time.

More about : agp 7600gs x1650

a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 1:13:17 AM

They are pretty close depending on the game. I'd go for a GDDR3 X1650 pro but avoid the GDDR2 ones (slow mem clocks). Also, check out prices of the X1650XT and 7600GT as they are a nice step up and not all that much more money at times.

Decent deals on faster cards if you ar ein the USA.

$99 after rebate - evga 7800GS AGP: http://www.outpost.com/product/5175386
edit: it was $99, now $119. Probably out of stock too

His ice Q X1650XT turbo - $139 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 2:30:37 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. I was wondering that too about them being about the same. I don't think I'll be GPU dependent after the upgrade, so the computer will be good for a couple of years (maybe). Currently not running anything too tasking (LoTR online, CSS, and the like).
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a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 2:52:31 AM

I was looking at these 2, possibly, unless there is something better for about the same $?

SAPPHIRE 100174L Radeon X1650PRO 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X CrossFire Support Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$110 w/$6 S/H = $116

or

EVGA 256-A8-N542-T2 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$110 w/$15 MIR $95 plus $6 SH = $101
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 3:16:43 AM

That Sapphire is actually closked higher than they say. I have that card and it came clocked 594MHz core, 1386 MHz effective mem. It's the best AGP X1650 pro AGP I have seen as most are crappy GDDR2 models. But I can tell you, it still gets cremed by the slightly more expensive X1650XT. I did alot of benchmarking between the two, and it wasn't even close. And the system was just an Athlon XP @2.2GHz (3200+).

Not to stetch your budget, but this card is far faster and better cooled also. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... But if that 400W PSU is a generic, you may not have the 12v power for the XT. The 7600GS will use the least power and the price is good. The GDDR3 X1650 pro is a bit better in most games, but also uses a bit more power. Most 400W's should do though.


Here is the Sapphire X1650 pro AGP next to the HIS iceQ X1650XT Turbo AGP:


Again, it's understandable if it's priced too high or you don't want to risk running it on your 400W. The His box states 450Watt with 30 amp 12v rail (seems overkill, but that is what it states). The Sapphire X1650 pro just says 350W PSU or higher. Anyway, depending on your games, all three are a nice upgrade from your current card. Older games especially, all 3 would be fine.

Edit: here is a 9800 pro like yours and X800XTpe AGP thrown in for size comparisons:


Man I loved the 9800 pro's, but with that Heatsink they look so teeny compared to the current cards.
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 3:34:15 AM

WOW! Nice pictures! I don't think my PSU can hadle the x1650xt :(  so I'll probably stay with the x1650pro or 7600 gs (not sure which one is better yet).
I think this is the PSU that I have right now:
Nspire 450W Dual fan
Store ID: pow-nsp-005
Maximum Power: 450 watts
Voltages: +5V - 36A
-5V - 0.5A
+12V - 18A
-12V - 0.5A
+3.3V - 20A
+5Vsb - 2A
Connectors: 1 x 20-pin Motherboard Connector; 1 x 4-pin 12V CPU Connector; 6 x 4-pin Peripheral Power Connectors; 2 x Floppy Power Connectors
2 x SATA Connectors
AUX Power
Dual Fan
I can't look at it, since it's at home and I don't want to let my son know I researching a new GPU. His birthday is soon and I was thinking of getting him a newer GPU to upgrade his current system. I believe that the 12V rail is a little weak, so I'll have to see if the x1650pro can handle it or not. Thanks again for the info, very supprised at all of the pictures :) 

PSU might also be:
Enlight ATX P4 450W SATA
Store ID: pow-enl-450-sata
450 Watt Peak Power
ATX form factor with 2 SATA connectors
Intel certified & AMD recommended
Sleeve bearing fan
AC switch selectable (115V / 230V)
Rocker switch on / off control
Automatic Fan Speed Control (AFC)
Built-In Triple Protection:
Over-Voltage
Over-Current
and Short-Circuit

Pretty sure this might be the one, but will have to check in the AM when I get home to verify the PSU. Currently trying to find better data on this PSU, but not having any luck.

Finally got info at enlight website (duh):
Voltage 5V Regulation -- ±5%
MinimumLoad -- 0.5A
MaximumLoad -- 28A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 50 mV
Voltage 3.3V Regulation -- ±5%
MinimumLoad -- 0.5A
MaximumLoad -- 30A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 50 mV
Voltage 12V1 Regulation -- ±5%
MinimumLoad -- 1.0A
MaximumLoad -- 14A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 120 mV
Voltage 12V2 Regulation -- ±5%
MinimumLoad -- 1.0A
MaximumLoad -- 15A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 120 mV
Voltage -12V Regulation -- ±10%
MinimumLoad -- 0.0A
MaximumLoad -- 0.5A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 120 mV
Voltage 5Vsb Regulation -- ±5%
MinimumLoad -- 0.0A
MaximumLoad -- 2.0A
Ripple & Noise(Vp-p) -- 50 mV
It also states:
The combined power on +5V & +3.3V: 145W max

The combined power on +5V, +3.3V, +12V1 & +12V2: 440W max

So I'm not sure what the max 12V rails can handle, might need mpilchfamily look at data and maybe come up with the actual max it can handle.
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 4:00:18 AM

I thought you may be interested to see them next to a 9800 pro.

Safest bet if you question the 12v power is the 7600GS. Take a look how much less power it uses than the X1650XT and X1600XT. Even the 7600GT is still good on power. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x...

BTW, my son has the X1650 pro in his system as the 9800 pro just struggles with test drive unlimited. It is a nice card. I ended up with stability issues with a 350W Antec (18 amp 12v rail) PSU, which was stable with the 9800 pro. I swapped in a 400 watt with dual 12v rails and all was well. Both the pro and the XT ran like a rock on a truepower 430 watt power supply, which has just a single 26 amp 12v rail.

Performance wise, a 7600GS and X1650 pro are very close overall, so don't feel the 7600GS is a bad card. I do give the edge to the X1650 pro. Look through the games in that same review: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x...
The X1650 pro is basically a slightly higher clocked X1600XT. So that works for a comparison.
May 6, 2007 4:28:48 AM

Either get a x1650xt or a x1950GT
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2007 5:48:09 AM

Quote:
I thought you may be interested to see them next to a 9800 pro.

Safest bet if you question the 12v power is the 7600GS. Take a look how much less power it uses than the X1650XT and X1600XT. Even the 7600GT is still good on power. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x...

BTW, my son has the X1650 pro in his system as the 9800 pro just struggles with test drive unlimited. It is a nice card. I ended up with stability issues with a 350W Antec (18 amp 12v rail) PSU, which was stable with the 9800 pro. I swapped in a 400 watt with dual 12v rails and all was well. Both the pro and the XT ran like a rock on a truepower 430 watt power supply, which has just a single 26 amp 12v rail.

Performance wise, a 7600GS and X1650 pro are very close overall, so don't feel the 7600GS is a bad card. I do give the edge to the X1650 pro. Look through the games in that same review: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x...
The X1650 pro is basically a slightly higher clocked X1600XT. So that works for a comparison.


I'm leaning towards the 7600gs (unless someone else thinks there is something better for my situation), just for the fact of the lower power consumption. I don't think I can swing another $50 for a PSU upgrade:(  Just looking to upgrade GPU without any further purchases. Thanks for all of the links! They are very helpful and probably taken me a few hours to find comparisons. Thanks for all of the help.
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 7, 2007 7:17:04 PM

Hi was just skimming and noticed your post i am running a x1650xt on my generic atx power supply with no probs at all.
Just thought i would let you know i was worried about it my self but found a link about power consumption.
Luckily for me i had a comparison as i had run a x800xl before and the x1650xt draws about 4 watts more according to the chart
The system came with a 9800 originally so i can safley say you will love the differance

Sorry edit my power supply is 400watts
If you are still worried get a7600gt
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000662.html
a b U Graphics card
May 8, 2007 2:18:34 AM

Quote:
Hi was just skimming and noticed your post i am running a x1650xt on my generic atx power supply with no probs at all.
Just thought i would let you know i was worried about it my self but found a link about power consumption.
Luckily for me i had a comparison as i had run a x800xl before and the x1650xt draws about 4 watts more according to the chart
The system came with a 9800 originally so i can safley say you will love the differance

Sorry edit my power supply is 400watts
If you are still worried get a7600gt
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000662.html


Thanks for the info. I've ordered a 7600gs 512mb model, since I didn't want to add more heat to the already warm setup :) 
May 8, 2007 12:18:44 PM

I think you should cancel ir if you can. 512mb for 7600gs makes no sense... It's just waste of money. Go for 256Mb gddr3 7600gs, It will be better than x1650pro, and 7600gs 512mb...
a b U Graphics card
May 9, 2007 2:13:41 AM

Quote:
I think you should cancel ir if you can. 512mb for 7600gs makes no sense... It's just waste of money. Go for 256Mb gddr3 7600gs, It will be better than x1650pro, and 7600gs 512mb...


Yep, thought about it too after ordering. Waiting to see if order got cancelled, since it still shows (sending to warehouse). Tried finding a 256mb DDR3 7600gs, but can't seem to find one. Do you know where I can get one?
a b U Graphics card
May 9, 2007 2:19:51 AM

In AGP, good luck. A reference 7600GS uses GDDR2 and lower mem speeds. A reference X1650 pro uses GDDR3 and higher mem speeds. But the two cards are similar in performance. Anyway, my point is that GDDR3 7600GS are the rare exception, not the norm. I can't say I have seen an AGP one.
May 9, 2007 2:40:09 AM

i agree with almost everyone here. the x1650 is the better choice. My x1650xt (although its not the pro, so this is expected) outperforms my friend's 7600 overclocked. Mine's from HIS, so yeah, it comes overclocked, and like someone said, its overclocked more than the box actually says it is, but only slightly. Performance is great. lost my floppy drive to power it, but who cares about that anyway? my motherboard's too old to get bios updates.
a b U Graphics card
May 9, 2007 6:43:43 AM

Quote:
i agree with almost everyone here. the x1650 is the better choice. My x1650xt (although its not the pro, so this is expected) outperforms my friend's 7600 overclocked. Mine's from HIS, so yeah, it comes overclocked, and like someone said, its overclocked more than the box actually says it is, but only slightly. Performance is great. lost my floppy drive to power it, but who cares about that anyway? my motherboard's too old to get bios updates.


I was leaning that way, but was worried about blowing my PSU which is like a 450w generic PSU. I have a 3.2ghz prescott (which runs quite warm) and have been concerned with using too much power with the x1650. I just wanted to get the most for the $ (around $110 or so), since I'm on a budget and can't afford to buy a new PSU if I blow the current one :( 
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 9, 2007 7:09:54 PM

As i said earlier your psu is 450 mine is 400 i have looked again and the numbers you posted are either the same or better than mine and i am running a x1650xt with no probs. power to performance wise in your price range the 7600gt is the only other card i would bother looking at(it draws less power than the x1650xt)and the performance is very similar
May 10, 2007 2:18:44 AM

i've got a thermaltake 420w'er that's taking alot like the beast it is:

overclocked athlon xp 2800+
aopen ak77-600max
1.5gb ddr333
overclocked radeon x1650xt agp
2x dvd-rw
2x 400gb sata
audigy 2 zs platinum w/live drive
two light tubes
tt venus 12 cooler
9 other fans, most with 4 led's in them
case has 6 led's and a temperature lcd display

so, i say that your psu could probably handle it. maybe maxed, but it can handle it.
a b U Graphics card
May 15, 2007 2:59:13 AM

Just got the 512mb 7600gs delivered today. Installed and haven't tested it out yet. I did set the AGP apeture in BIOS to 256mb, not sure if I needed to (it was at 64mb with the 9800pro 128mb board installed). My son has seen some heavy lag in LoTR online in some heavy graphic towns with lots of people in it. Hope that this will help clear up some of that issue (crosses fingers). Thanks again for all of the help.
a b U Graphics card
June 4, 2007 7:56:54 AM

Update***Well the 7600gs went for dead about 6 days after installation :(  . I sent it back and finally got a refund for it. Now I'm trying to decide if I should just get the x1650pro instead, since it was cheaper than the 7600gs 512mb that I ordered earlier. I was thinking/hoping that maybe a DX10 AGP would be out, but that wouldn't probably be a good idea with the setup anyway. I might be getting another 2x512mb sticks of 3200 DDR to add to the system, so that might help things out also. If there is another AGP card that I missed around the $110 range, than please let me know. I'm currently thinking that 7600gs that I had was bad to begin with :(  . I had a 2900 score on 3dmark05 and a 3090 score with the 9800pro (not the synthetics are the best thing to test, but goes to show the 7600gs that I had wasn't very good).
!