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Military Laptop?

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May 6, 2007 1:48:25 AM

Was watching Mail Call on the History Channel last night and I was shocked when the Gunny said that the latest and greatest US built Mil Spec laptop uses a Pentium M CPU and the Intel 850i chipset.

Can anyone tell me where the FRAK our tax dollars are going when it comes to stuff like this?

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a b D Laptop
May 6, 2007 1:56:46 AM

combat boots.... we need more combat boots!
May 6, 2007 2:18:22 AM

Not in the Marine Corps. My first year in the Corps, we still uses green screen monitor. I am not kidding. But now we have upgraded to an old CRT color monitor. Most $$$ from our taxes goes to hi tech weapons mostly to Air Force as they have the biggest budget.

Oh yeah, in the Marine Corps, combat boots are not free. We have to buy it for ourselves.
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May 6, 2007 2:34:02 AM

Why are tax dollars used on equipment like that or older? RED TAPE! First a comity take 6-12 months to come up with the specs they want for the piece of equipment. Then the government takes contract offers (another 6-12 months). Once the contract is approved the manufactures and government agency get together and do 6-12 months if not more of testing and field testing. So by the time something gets to a foot solider its most likely 3-4 years out of date.

When I was in the Army Infantry we would take the surplus from Air Force and cobble together systems for our units instead of the PC's issued to them.
May 6, 2007 2:57:23 AM

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. For most purposes (data, etc.), the military probably does not need that much computing power. Thus, why spend the budget on new, high-end components that might be overkill? Intel probably cuts them a deal on stuff they need to move, as well [/idealism].

But as Mold put it, there is sure to be a lot of red tape, as with any government organization. The fact that no one has thought to streamline this process boggles the mind [/cynicism].
May 6, 2007 3:05:26 AM

Quote:
Was watching Mail Call on the History Channel last night and I was shocked when the Gunny said that the latest and greatest US built Mil Spec laptop uses a Pentium M CPU and the Intel 850i chipset.

Can anyone tell me where the FRAK our tax dollars are going when it comes to stuff like this?
To the CEO of the company that contracts the Armys IT. Jesse may know. In the case of the Marines Corps and Navy its EDS, the primary contractor for NMCI. Ross Perots old company, may it go bankrupt.
May 6, 2007 3:15:18 AM

Quote:
Not in the Marine Corps. My first year in the Corps, we still uses green screen monitor. I am not kidding. But now we have upgraded to an old CRT color monitor. Most $$$ from our taxes goes to hi tech weapons mostly to Air Force as they have the biggest budget.

Oh yeah, in the Marine Corps, combat boots are not free. We have to buy it for ourselves.


Not nesassarily true. The biggest consumer tends to vascilate year to year between the Navy and the Chair Force, depending on what programs they are pushing. The Marines, no small spenders either, have been gaining increasing funding due to their high visibilty in Iraq. The Marines have sunk a retarded amount of money into MV22, which has only just come on line the past few years. They also have AH1X and UH1Y, plus significant roles/costs in AAV7 and F35.
May 6, 2007 3:31:16 AM

Quote:
Not in the Marine Corps. My first year in the Corps, we still uses green screen monitor. I am not kidding. But now we have upgraded to an old CRT color monitor. Most $$$ from our taxes goes to hi tech weapons mostly to Air Force as they have the biggest budget.

Oh yeah, in the Marine Corps, combat boots are not free. We have to buy it for ourselves.


Last time I was in an Air Force fighter, it still had a green screen radar. Yes, it did have the nice garphics pop up on the windsreen, but the computer had a DX486 cpu in it. The most money seemed to go into the bombs and such, which were shared by the Navy and Marines. And I had to buy my own combat boots as well, along with my own food. Even when I was hospitalized, I had to pay for the hospital food. Can you imagine having to pay for that crap? Try giving that stuff to an animal and you'd be arrested for cruelty.
May 6, 2007 3:57:37 AM

Still, Marine Corps even with it's new F35 program and the V22 Osprey and high tech pepper sprays and batons, it's still has the smallest budget from the defense. Cheer Force on the other hand have space programs and UFO crap and they get a huge chuck of the budget pie. What's it got to do with laptops and computers? We have outdated crap, probably some surplus and junk from the Air Force given to us. When I was in Oki our main computer boots up in over 5 minutes! It was freaking old and dirty. It used to be white I can tell but over the years it turned brown. That's how old it was, but still it worked as we intended it to do so we didn't replace it. I was an Aircraft Mechaninc/Tech and I tell you we have tools and equipment dating back from Vietnam and Korean War era.

Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.
a b à CPUs
a b D Laptop
May 6, 2007 4:38:18 AM

Then again, for what it's being used for, a Pentium M is more than enough. The government and most corporations DO NOT upgrade until they need too. My old job, which was retail, all the store systems in the house ran Pentium 3's.
May 6, 2007 5:02:41 AM

I'm not meaning to put down the Marine corps by any means. I just mean that everyone has problems, just in different areas. Never tried Marine chow, but I have had some Navy food down in San Diego and it seemed the same as ours. The only really bad food I ever had was in the hospital. There I prefered what came out of an IV.
May 6, 2007 5:13:43 AM

Quote:
Still, Marine Corps even with it's new F35 program and the V22 Osprey and high tech pepper sprays and batons, it's still has the smallest budget from the defense. Cheer Force on the other hand have space programs and UFO crap and they get a huge chuck of the budget pie. What's it got to do with laptops and computers? We have outdated crap, probably some surplus and junk from the Air Force given to us. When I was in Oki our main computer boots up in over 5 minutes! It was freaking old and dirty. It used to be white I can tell but over the years it turned brown. That's how old it was, but still it worked as we intended it to do so we didn't replace it. I was an Aircraft Mechaninc/Tech and I tell you we have tools and equipment dating back from Vietnam and Korean War era.

Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.


Budget issues. The money for the computers has to come from somewhere.
Heres an example. In 1999/2000 the Surface Navy had an abnormally bad stretch, with a bakers dozen (if I recall correctly) groundings/collisions. The costs (including repair/lawsuits/compensation/medical) were astronomical, exceeding the Navys normal repair budget by such a staggering amount, all normal PMS's and yard periods were defered that year. That didnt even scratch the tip of the iceberg. To help cover the costs, LPD17X's budget was cut into, pushing that program back. Even that didnt cover the costs, so F18 procurement was also cut into. Later, down the road to recoup the costs to F18, T6 was pushed back and funding reappropriated back to F18. This was accomplished by allowing the Airforce to take delivery of theirs first, which in turn pushed T34 (for the pilot programs..the NFO programs received their T6s)up to and past its service life, which in turn resulted in the ongoing re-sparing (costing more money) of those aircraft until delivery of T6 is finally accepted in 2009.

House nips at NMCI Budget(2001)

Yes, the Marines have always had a small budget. But a lot of things have been changing the past 9 years IRT IT and budgets. DOD was getting a black eye (they still are) over computer security. In the cases of the Marines and Navy (and Im sure the others as well) interoperability was a huge issue. Marines go to boat, get on boat, plug systems into ships network - and suprise suprise - nothing works. As part of NMCI (Navy Marine Corps Intranet) both the Marines and Navy have been getting "new" 'standardized' hardware from .........Dell :roll: through EDS

Of course, its crap hardware...PIII systems, mix n match servers etc. And it gets worse. They (Navy/Marines) dont own it. They rent it on a yearly basis. A 'Blue" seat (typical PIII 933 system) costs $945 a year. Laptops cost more. Of course, those yearly rental fees also include upgrades (when deemed to be required by EDS) and service. As for the cost, EDS was originally contracted for $14B, with an additional $6bil being set aside for cost overruns. EDS went through the first $14 without blinking an eye, then took the $6bill pre-programed overrun fund and asked for more. The only way to get more in DOD is to defer until the next budget, put in a supplementary request, or steal it from another area. Stealing is pretty much verboten--cant steal from some one else "pot", except in exceptional circumstances, with all kinds of hurdles to jump and permissions to get.

The AirFarce has been under the buget gun the past few years. Bigtime. They didnt get as much press in the last war, and the cost overruns for F22 and C17 (among some smaller issues such as T34/vsT38+T37 and T6)drew a lot of "why are we giving you guys so much money?" questions.
Theyve actually had to cut grounds keeping costs for their golf courses 8O

http://www.eds.com/sites/nmci/

Oh, boot up times are down, but load up time is around 5-7 minutes because of all the security/network crapware (25% of which is non functional) plus another 3 minutes minumum to log in.
May 6, 2007 6:06:28 AM

The Marine Corps is always looking for cheap alternatives. We have shitty PC's and laptops and still we do our best to keep up with our daily tasks. As an aircraft tech I always used our computers for initiating our daily workloads, ordering parts and all transactions. Sometimes the computers break down on us and it gets really frustrating since we have a lot of pressure from our superior. Our networks as well is not that good and it always gets choked during busy hours making all transactions really slow. Sometime the whole network shuts down and we go back to the basics and use paper works instead.

Talk about network security. The military suppose to be secure but it's not at all. Almost all our PC's are infected with virus, since the users are the weak link and the ones who exposes the network to the threats. One time when I was station in Okinawa, someone got a hold of the military e-mail addresses, which holds just about 90% of all military personnel e-mail add. So our system gets flooded with virus and spams. There are times that my e-mail address gets over 1000 junk mails over the weekend. And you can't change your address since it has to be your last name, first name initial and middle name initial and the organization you're working for. The network administrator can barely keep up with the issue. And then there's lots of porn sent from one person to the other, infecting other pcs and laptops, filling up the storage with porn, junk mail, vids and spams.
May 6, 2007 6:15:49 AM

If the laptop is being used in the field, then the main thing the military will be concerned about is that the laptop can take a heck of a beating. As long as it can run their software and still work after after getting dropped in the mud, the miltary is perfectly satisfied.

As for where the money goes, check out http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp
May 6, 2007 6:36:35 AM

Quote:
The Marine Corps is always looking for cheap alternatives. We have shitty PC's and laptops and still we do our best to keep up with our daily tasks. As an aircraft tech I always used our computers for initiating our daily workloads, ordering parts and all transactions. Sometimes the computers break down on us and it gets really frustrating since we have a lot of pressure from our superior. Our networks as well is not that good and it always gets choked during busy hours making all transactions really slow. Sometime the whole network shuts down and we go back to the basics and use paper works instead.

Talk about network security. The military suppose to be secure but it's not at all. Almost all our PC's are infected with virus, since the users are the weak link and the ones who exposes the network to the threats. One time when I was station in Okinawa, someone got a hold of the military e-mail addresses, which holds just about 90% of all military personnel e-mail add. So our system gets flooded with virus and spams. There are times that my e-mail address gets over 1000 junk mails over the weekend. And you can't change your address since it has to be your last name, first name initial and middle name initial and the organization you're working for. The network administrator can barely keep up with the issue. And then there's lots of porn sent from one person to the other, infecting other pcs and laptops, filling up the storage with porn, junk mail, vids and spams.


I take it NMCI hasnt made it to oki yet then
May 6, 2007 7:38:51 AM

i have a few buddies in the Army and none of them get laptops. One of them is getting ready to get deployed again to Iraq.

He has to buy his own laptop. He also stated that alot of guys buy laptops from other guys that are leaving as they show up to do their tour.
May 6, 2007 8:38:05 AM

Quote:
Can anyone tell me where the FRAK our tax dollars are going when it comes to stuff like this?


I can tell you exactly where. I was reading a newspaper a few weeks ago (The Guardian if anyone was interested) and it showed me $12 billion that had been transported to Iraq to help "rebuild" the country. Your severly incompetent government then managed to completly lose track of where this money went when they gave it away.

I live in the UK by the way.
a b à CPUs
a b D Laptop
May 6, 2007 8:40:12 AM

Yeah, the military only issues laptops to soldiers when they are needed to get the job done. They don't issue one to every soldier. I mean, they don't even supply their boots anymore.
May 6, 2007 9:28:35 AM

I think we are still using the NALCOMIS in Okinawa for our network. It was a lot better than before with the green screen MAFS.
May 6, 2007 9:32:44 AM

True. I went to MCRD San Diego for bootcamp. For 13 weeks of hell and I graduated with like $500! What a rip off! But I was very motivated and happy cuz it's all over so I did not care of that at the time. We paid for everything there. Chow, barracks, supplies and maybe the ammunitions we fire down range. It must since we did get out with a one week pay.

I'm just kidding, boot camp is nice and happy place. You guys should sign up for it. If you do then contact me and I'll be happy to send you a Marine recruiter at your area. Simper Fi! Oooorraaahhh!
May 6, 2007 9:35:42 AM

Quote:
Was watching Mail Call on the History Channel last night and I was shocked when the Gunny said that the latest and greatest US built Mil Spec laptop uses a Pentium M CPU and the Intel 850i chipset.

Can anyone tell me where the FRAK our tax dollars are going when it comes to stuff like this?

nah... our tax dollars went to support some guerrilla forces in Mid. East that tries (or in an attempt to) topple the muslim governments. :twisted:
May 6, 2007 9:37:06 AM

An enemy of our enemy is our friend.
May 6, 2007 10:05:02 AM

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An enemy of our enemy is our friend.

yep.. that's exactly the doctrine behind Vietnam War. We don't want NVietnamese to spread communism in southern asia, so we team up with the SVietnamese to find against them.

can't believe we're still using this doctrine in the 21st century. guess something about human would never change.
May 7, 2007 2:01:45 AM

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And it gets worse. They (Navy/Marines) dont own it. They rent it on a yearly basis. A 'Blue" seat (typical PIII 933 system) costs $945 a year. Laptops cost more. Of course, those yearly rental fees also include upgrades (when deemed to be required by EDS) and service.


8O What. On. Earth? I think everyone here understands immediately how insane that is. A used PIII 933 probably costs under $100 on eBay, right? How can they justify wasting that much money?
May 7, 2007 2:04:29 AM

Quote:
And it gets worse. They (Navy/Marines) dont own it. They rent it on a yearly basis. A 'Blue" seat (typical PIII 933 system) costs $945 a year. Laptops cost more. Of course, those yearly rental fees also include upgrades (when deemed to be required by EDS) and service.


8O What. On. Earth? I think everyone here understands immediately how insane that is. A used PIII 933 probably costs under $100 on eBay, right? How can they justify wasting that much money?

The justification is the yearly cost includes upgrades and service. We have yet to see any upgrades and the service sux.
May 7, 2007 3:42:18 AM

All I'm going to say is don't believe everything you see on TV
May 7, 2007 3:46:23 AM

Too bad this is real life and I get to deal with it every day. The fallacy of a TV show would have been nice
May 7, 2007 4:04:08 AM

That was a pretty broad statement made by the program if the OP quoted it correctly. I've seen faster
May 7, 2007 4:15:51 AM

Quote:
All I'm going to say is don't believe everything you see on TV


Forget the TV, this is the government that we're talking about. If it made sense, the government wouldn't do it.
May 7, 2007 5:11:50 AM

Quote:
Still, Marine Corps even with it's new F35 program and the V22 Osprey and high tech pepper sprays and batons, it's still has the smallest budget from the defense. Cheer Force on the other hand have space programs and UFO crap and they get a huge chuck of the budget pie. What's it got to do with laptops and computers? We have outdated crap, probably some surplus and junk from the Air Force given to us. When I was in Oki our main computer boots up in over 5 minutes! It was freaking old and dirty. It used to be white I can tell but over the years it turned brown. That's how old it was, but still it worked as we intended it to do so we didn't replace it. I was an Aircraft Mechaninc/Tech and I tell you we have tools and equipment dating back from Vietnam and Korean War era.

Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.


Almost all the money in the airforce gets sunk into the new f/a-22's, everyone else still has the same old rust buckets that were serving back in vietnam. And only a few things in the airforce are high-tech, just look at awacs and you will understand what i mean. Airforce is under a major budget cut to with all the money going straight into the army in the last couple years
May 7, 2007 5:16:04 AM

I do believe all Armed Forces get the same amount of money for their budget.
May 7, 2007 5:17:18 AM

Quote:
All I'm going to say is don't believe everything you see on TV


Forget the TV, this is the government that we're talking about. If it made sense, the government wouldn't do it.

The military to for that matter :cry:  , anyone else ever see a $50 screw before?
May 7, 2007 5:19:22 AM

Quote:
I do believe all Armed Forces get the same amount of money for their budget.


Nope not true, Airforce and Navy get alot more money than other services. They also have to maintain alot of very expensive equipment though.
May 7, 2007 5:30:17 AM

The army gets a budget to, just isn't as big as the airforce/navy. the government is diverting alot of the money from the airforce to go into the army. Since i joined they have cut about 80,000 jobs, and are still looking to cut more people out. Airforce is starting to do alot of traditional army jobs to, because they are overworked.

Lol glad you caught that about the marines being part of the navy :D 
May 7, 2007 5:42:40 AM

Quote:


The AirFarce has been under the buget gun the past few years. Bigtime. They didnt get as much press in the last war, and the cost overruns for F22 and C17 (among some smaller issues such as T34/vsT38+T37 and T6)drew a lot of "why are we giving you guys so much money?" questions.
Theyve actually had to cut grounds keeping costs for their golf courses 8O


Don't forget we're taking heat for contracting out our air refuelers and the new helicopters we plan on buying. If we keep failing to be smart with our big money I see us being restructured back to the Army Air Corp. or a set-up similar to the Navy and Marines. Which may not be a bad thing.

Seriously though they're kicking 45,000 out because they can't figure out a better way to balance their budget. Guess they can't find somebody smart enough to write a better contract.



Quote:
The Marine Corps is always looking for cheap alternatives. We have shitty PC's and laptops and still we do our best to keep up with our daily tasks. As an aircraft tech I always used our computers for initiating our daily workloads, ordering parts and all transactions. Sometimes the computers break down on us and it gets really frustrating since we have a lot of pressure from our superior. Our networks as well is not that good and it always gets choked during busy hours making all transactions really slow. Sometime the whole network shuts down and we go back to the basics and use paper works instead.


I feel your pain on this one. Before I moved over to computers from a different comm maintenance field it would p*ss me of royally to go into finance or personnel office and see them with their new machines while we chugged along documenting maintenance on 4 machines for 45 pieces of equipment.

As far as replacing your older machines, it's up to your CO/contract when to upgrade them. Because of this many units upgrade more often then others. We have a central office that processes these machines before sending them to DRMO. Normally they'll let you sign out a few machines for your office. Even was able to grab extra ram for them too.

Quote:


8O What. On. Earth? I think everyone here understands immediately how insane that is. A used PIII 933 probably costs under $100 on eBay, right? How can they justify wasting that much money?


But how far can you drop it, kick it, throw it? There's a huge difference in Commercial spec and mil-spec. Heck go down to the hardware store and check out the price difference on commercial grade to mil-spec power cables.

In addition, some of the older equipment that is out there has major issues with newer stuff. One of the places I worked had a Win95, P2(?) machine because that's all that can interface with our equipment.
May 7, 2007 5:58:28 AM

Quote:



Don't forget we're taking heat for contracting out our air refuelers and the new helicopters we plan on buying. If we keep failing to be smart with our big money I see us being restructured back to the Army Air Corp. or a set-up similar to the Navy and Marines. Which may not be a bad thing.

Seriously though they're kicking 45,000 out because they can't figure out a better way to balance their budget. Guess they can't find somebody smart enough to write a better contract.


The airforce has been very dumb with its money lately. I think that becoming part of the army again would be a very bad thing. Army is known for treating their people horribly. Given that most high ranking officers in the army are prior infantry i doubt they will be to helpful in seeing that aircraft are properly looked after.
May 7, 2007 7:25:22 AM

I read part of this thread, but from waht I hear of the Air Force: They get millions to upgrade a base. They buy big screen television sets and other electronics. Then with their roads in disrepair they ask for more money. Someone I know went into the Air Force because of stuff like that. :lol: 
May 7, 2007 7:56:08 AM

The Airforce has a fiscal year, at the end if they have any extra money they need to go and spend it before the end of the year. If they don't spend it there is a possibility that they could get their budget cut. Alot of times that extra money goes to buying stupid crap like that instead of something usefull.
May 7, 2007 8:14:50 AM

Well over here in the UK we have more people working in the Ministry of Defense than we do soldiers!
May 7, 2007 8:28:44 AM

Makes me kinda sad that the old divisional structure of the Army being abolished for this modular thing.
May 7, 2007 4:00:20 PM

Quote:
I do believe all Armed Forces get the same amount of money for their budget.


Nope not true, Airforce and Navy get alot more money than other services. They also have to maintain alot of very expensive equipment though.

I read somewhere that the services are usually appropriated the same amounts so as to reduce inter-service squabbling.


As far as laptops go, the gov't agency I work for issued me a laptop. It's an HP with a pentium m 1.7something ghz cpu in it. It works for what I need it to do. Of course I can't install any games on it so it's probably overpowered. :roll:
May 7, 2007 4:38:41 PM

Quote:
I do believe all Armed Forces get the same amount of money for their budget.


Nope not true, Airforce and Navy get alot more money than other services. They also have to maintain alot of very expensive equipment though.

I read somewhere that the services are usually appropriated the same amounts so as to reduce inter-service squabbling.


Sorry to burst your bubble but the Navy and Air Force get a lot more funding than the Army.
Air Force $31.34B
Navy $31.33B
Army $24.9B
Marines $ 3.88B

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/defbudget/fy2007/fy2007_greenbook.pdf
May 7, 2007 4:55:43 PM

Well... I may do IT with the military(loosely sorta but anyway). Up until recently the pentium M was the mobile version of the 4 was lower clock and was the longest lasting on battery. Now C2D is faster but, remember that the C2D is new. From time of purchase to the time it would get to the soldier. Then your looking at the time they filmed the show to the time they released it. Then was this a new episode or was this a repeat, the film may have been filmed a year ago. I'm not defending anything nor do I care just thought I'd offer insight. Oh also Public Release... as in anything military going to public... is a long intensive process that can take time.
May 7, 2007 5:26:14 PM

When normal consumers buy a laptop, we can generally make that decision quickly. I would imagine the military has some sort of process that slows down the buying decision dramatically. The Pentium M is a very capable processor... I don't really share your shock on this topic.

Anyways... have you ever known a government to spend YOUR money the way you would spend it yourself?
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2007 5:29:01 PM

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Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.


Kadena? I was there in '84 back when SR-71 Blackbirds could still be seen taking off and landing :)  I recall some off-base restaurant that had these private dining rooms with huge turntables that you could rotate to get to the various dishes...
May 7, 2007 5:36:56 PM

When I was in the Corp (mid 1970's), I don't recall seeing a computer at all...and yeah, I had to pay for everything also. Although it was a supposedly "kinder, gentler" Marine Corp because some senators whiny brat may have gotten offended by some DI who was trying to turn some milktoast civilians into Marines.

I think every high school grad should have to do two years mandatory service, it gives you a unique perspective on what you may or may not want to do with the rest of your life.
May 7, 2007 6:07:31 PM

Quote:
I do believe all Armed Forces get the same amount of money for their budget.


No, they dont. The Defense Budget is for all intensive purposes, one budget. There is no specifically balanced budget for each of the services. The budget is addressed by program. The programs funded within the budget vary and as such the amounts allocated differ. The human aspects, Heath/Medical, Welfare, housing, retirement etc are each funded specifically and seperately within the budget, though line crossing does occur. Additionally the numbers of personnel within the services vary, with the largest manning going to the Army at just over half a million, the AirForce and Navy having roughly 380K apiece and A Few Good Men = 180000. If you include the marines in the Navy, as they are DON, then DON claims 560K The Coast Guard, formerly DOT, now Dept of Homeland Security is the smallest of the forces at just over 40K. Obviously, there is no way each service could recieve the same amount of funding for human resources/programs. Weapons programs are different. While there are joint programs, such as F35 (Navy Marines and Airforce, as well as international customers including England, Italy, Austrailia, Denmark and a few others all have stakes), there are service specific programs such as DD(X), CVN21, AH1X/UH1Y, M109, M1A2, F/A18, F22 which demand their own funding. Traditionally, the Airforces or Navys programs take the largest chunks of funding as ships and planes cost more than tanks. Thats a gross oversimplification, but it address's the division of the budget adequately.

For instance, 1 $136Million F22 (unit cost estimates vary with restructuring of the procurement plan-Low rate production costs exceeded $140mil, while high rate production costs were @ $103Mil) costs the same as 25 M1A2 SEP Abrams MBTs. At 5850 Abrams in service(not nearly all of which are the latest, most expensive M1A2SEP) the MBT program cost a little over 31 billion (worst case scenario) in procurement. At the full rate production of 763 (the original request) units at $120Mil apiece, the F22A procurement was to cost $91B, not including the developmental costs which were significantly higher than those of the M1A1. Of course, the number of F22s to be procured has been a matter of serious contention between the Airforce and Congress, with current numbers @178-183, depending what source you read.

Some other units costs (rounded off)
Anything that costs over $1Bil is considered to be a capitol asset.
B2, $2.2Bil (capitol asset)
DDG 51 destroyers $900mil (baseline) per unit
Ticonderoga class cruisers (CG 47) cost just under $1Bil.
EA 6B Prowlers, $600mil
F15 $43mil
F18 $32mil
F16 - who the hell knows. That thing was originally supposed to cost under $20mil per unit, but the program underwent so many twists, turns, modifications and subdivisions, pinning an accurate unit cost to a dartboard is nigh impossible, though there are those who will insist it was $19mil per unit, (for C/D) when all the add ons/upgrades/"minor alterations" are added in, it runs out to something like $24mil/unit.
686 "LA" class attack sub $900Mil
726 "Ohio"Class 'Boomer" Subs $1.2Bil (capitol asset)

and, the king of 'blue' (publically aknowledged) unit costs
CVN Nimitz class carriers @ $4.5bil per unit.
May 7, 2007 6:17:41 PM

Quote:
Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.


Kadena? I was there in '84 back when SR-71 Blackbirds could still be seen taking off and landing :)  I recall some off-base restaurant that had these private dining rooms with huge turntables that you could rotate to get to the various dishes...

Yes, during lunch I drive off from work, Mals-36, MCAS Futenma and exit the back gate heads toward Gate 2 at Air Force Base Kadena. Air Force got some really good chow there? And to no surprise there are many Marines that dine over there as well that we out numbered the Air Force. And the Air Force had a very fat chef, meaning they make some good chow.
May 7, 2007 8:33:16 PM

Quote:
Oh and Marine Corps chow is crap that's why I go to an Air Force base nearby to get some good chow.


Kadena? I was there in '84 back when SR-71 Blackbirds could still be seen taking off and landing :)  I recall some off-base restaurant that had these private dining rooms with huge turntables that you could rotate to get to the various dishes...

Yes, during lunch I drive off from work, Mals-36, MCAS Futenma and exit the back gate heads toward Gate 2 at Air Force Base Kadena. Air Force got some really good chow there? And to no surprise there are many Marines that dine over there as well that we out numbered the Air Force. And the Air Force had a very fat chef, meaning they make some good chow.

you won't see as many fat chef's anymore. The Airforce is really pushing physical fitness, they are kicking out all the big boys now. Airforce leadership wants us to be like the army it seems, guess you guys calling us the chairforce got to them lol.
May 7, 2007 8:39:37 PM

Quote:
Was watching Mail Call on the History Channel last night and I was shocked when the Gunny said that the latest and greatest US built Mil Spec laptop uses a Pentium M CPU and the Intel 850i chipset.

Can anyone tell me where the FRAK our tax dollars are going when it comes to stuff like this?


Dude when was the show filmed? For all you know it could have been 3 years ago. The Pentium M is still a widely used laptop processor. I dont understand what your problem is...

This was an all new episode of season 3, and it was filmed in fall '06... So its pretty new. To all of you saying that you don't share my shock its not that I'm shocked rather, apppaled at the Military having sub grade stuff. Although you can run over this thing with a Jeep and drown it in water and it still work. I just thought that they might have something on the level of the Intel Centrino tech is all.
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