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You all need to look at this!!!!!!

Last response: in Linux/Free BSD
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June 4, 2007 10:19:20 PM

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32317/118/

So what do you guys think of this!!!!!

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June 5, 2007 2:49:27 PM

So why would they make this deal with the Novell Suse deal in the background? There are no free unlimited versions of Xandros, so this has to have been made with a business plan in mind.
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June 5, 2007 4:18:43 PM

Ok it is shows that I'm vary new to linux my ? on this is. If I dule boot M$ and linux, M$ can sue me for infringement? If it is not Xandros or Novell.


Quote

Microsoft claims that open source programs violate 235 of its patents, but its five year arrangement with Xandros includes a pledge not to sue Xandros' Linux customers for infringement
June 5, 2007 8:03:28 PM

Single users have nothing to be worried about. Neither do large system integrators if Dell + Ubuntu is any indication. MS would only threaten to sue the makers of software. Look at it this way. The big lawsuit between Verizon and Vonage that's been going on has nothing to do with Vonage users. Same basic thing here.

Basically, the agreement that novell and xandros signed is just more of MS bullying. Bill is saying that "if you pay me this now, I won't come after any more later". Xandros has "caved" to MS here because their product is aimed squarely at Windows interoperability. The position they're in requires them to buddy up with MS to continue to sell their product, and it doesn't look good getting sued by the company whose products you are trying to interoperate with. Like so many other things in this world, it's all PR and FUD, alternately layered one on top of the other.
June 5, 2007 8:19:38 PM

Thanks

So if you where to use novell and xandros would you some how be giving money or some how helping M$ in there bullying of more Linux distros?
June 5, 2007 8:51:53 PM

Not as I see it, no. Novell and Xandros are not trying to bully other Linux distros, they're just as much victims of MS as the rest. They just felt that it suited their better interest to "give up their lunch money" rather than stand up to the bully. If their decision bothers you that much, don't support them, but you won't be directly hurting Linux as a whole by using their products. They were just scared enough for their families to pay up when MS sent 350-pound 6-foot-6 Vinny Bagadounuts around to collect.

And I did read more on this. The deal MS offered was quite underhanded, moreso than I originally thought. They did threaten to sue customers. Not end users, mind you, other corporations that deploy large numbers of machines running Linux. I don't see any way that they could manage to do this, becuase of the Verizon/Vonage suit I mentioned, or the RIM (Blackberries) lawsuits. IF (big big if there), MS is right and Linux violates one of their patents, then companies that bought that "stolen" technology from a Linux vendor wouldn't be to blame, the Linux vendor would. Same thing that happens if you UNKNOWINGLY buy stolen property (like a car). Dude that sold it to you is going to the slammer, not you. You're going to lose the car in the process, but that's the limit of your liability. You can then sue the dude that sold it to you to get your money back...

This is just a big PR ploy by MS. They say "hey, were right, give us money", then justify that action by saying "look, you gave us money, so we must be right".

If ANY of this held any water at all, why would Dell be selling machines running Ubuntu? Dell's smart enough to know not to cross MS in the courtroom, and Ubuntu isn't even on the MS approved list (and has stated VERY publicly that it does not plan to be, either). Then again, Dell is one of MS's biggest customers, so...

The reason MS has now stated that Xandros is their suggested Linux distro is that it's premiere application in the business environment is (drumroll please) Crossover Office. Crossover Office requires (judges!?) a license for MS Office. MS still has the better part of your business. I wouldn't be surprised if MS forced Xandros into this agreement with a threat of hostile takeover ("sign this agreement or we'll buy your sorry asses, sign it for you, and THEN shut you down").

Linux is finally threatening MS's big cash cow - large business. MS is doing what any intelligent evil corporation would do - sow Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD).
June 5, 2007 9:22:10 PM

Why I was asking is that after reading a lot of formz on the Linux section, that not a lot of people like Novell after the hole M$ thing. Now I'm still looking into which distros to use Novell was one of them only that they give you support for 30 days which is good so one doesn't have to ask a lot of ? in the formz's. Now I'm still looking in to it more have not made up my mind.
I just didn't want to help M$ in there bullying of Linux. Buy using (or buying) distros that help M$ in this.

One more thing this section of toms as with the hardware section Have been grate at helping people out!!

And thanks for your time
June 7, 2007 2:40:29 PM

Quote:
3- M$'s popularity isn't want it used to be... and M$ is facing tons of legal hardships and sales hardship due to this... it needs an easy way out - so it gets a PET! and what better pet than a linux distro that will solve all of the above problems as well!?

Points 1 and 2 are simply not true at the high level. Business trumps home use for cash and Linux simply doesn't have the business ownership to maintain competitiveness when you look at usage in the workplace - MS rules and will for a long time. Linux will pretty much keep to the webserver or very specialized application level. When I worked with IBM and they were pushing hard to make businesses use Linux on their servers to reduce everyone's costs, they lost so much money that they had to go back to MS as being the main OS and their sales went back up. Unless if businesses change their habits overnight, Linux will maintain its "alternative OS" status.

However, you are correct on point 3. They are not in serious trouble, but they see that businesses won't upgrade as quickly as they used to so they need a new source for income. Supporting Novell, Xandros and now LG will keep Windows compatible with some distros and that will not greatly increase MS income, but at least allow alternative income for the near future. Good business strategy for a company that is not moving product very well and good for Linux as well so that people become more aware of the alternatives to straight MS products.
June 15, 2007 11:58:22 AM

No i think you got it!

M$ is going for a monopoly which isn't that elegal :?:
June 15, 2007 1:01:16 PM

I don't think MS will actually sue anyone, however the threat alone is enough because few of the distros have enough available cash for a prolonged legal battle. The market has been predicting this for years after the Novell string of lawsuits had ended. The Linux community will have to seriously determine a plan of action or Microsoft will end up determining their future for them.
June 20, 2007 8:02:38 PM

MS probably wouldn't sue individuals. They'd sue companies who are using their patents illegally to profit though.

I'm familar with a lot of companies that won't use Linux because they really don't have a business backing the software, thus leaving them up for grabs in a law suit.

If MS were to use something illegal, do you think you'd get sued? Heck no, MS would.

Linux uses something illegal, sue the person using it since there isn't a business model surrounding Linux.

I preach that the day Linux becomes a business and sells their product, it will take off.
June 21, 2007 7:10:49 PM

Looks great on paper. :p  Tell me when it becomes reality though. :roll:
June 21, 2007 10:21:30 PM

Riser works for M$, he has no other choice :lol: 
June 22, 2007 11:22:41 AM

I've worked with several companies that have tried to sell Linux on their servers. So far, they've lost sales every time. Linux needs a better business model before its prime time for the majority of businesses.
June 22, 2007 7:25:42 PM

I work with MS software and IBM software.

IBM stuff is expensive. Far more than it needs to be. But guess what? This AS400/i520 stuff is rock solid and nothing, NOTHING can touch it for what it does.

But its really expensive. I have a $1,000,000 server sitting in my server room right now weighing in at just under 1,000lbs.

We messed with Linux for testing certain things.

1) We decided its too time consuming to make sure all programs work properly.
2) Time consuming finding the programs we need/want to make our business work.
3) 3rd party software we rely on does not support Linux and it never will.
4) Equipment we use require MS products as they're designed to only run on them.

Guess what? Linux has a limited role where I work. Additionally, I'd much prefer to stray from a mix-platform environment than having to deal with Linux and Windows, plus 3rd party Apps and Machines that require it.

Nothing sells or takes off without a business behind it, something Linux clearly does not have.
June 22, 2007 11:55:12 PM

Oh yeah, the AS400/i Series does run Linux.

DB2 runs on Linux as does most other IBM software.
June 26, 2007 3:27:37 PM

Yes, the AS/400 can run any OS on its additional space. To do so is beyond retarded though in most cases. The hard drives to run the as/400 / i520 (it is an operating system itself - not sure you were aware of that) is highly expensive. Running any other OS on it would really be a waste of highly expensive HDD space.
June 26, 2007 3:28:17 PM

Yeah, I'd love to do that. We have 4 NLB T1s here too. :p 
June 26, 2007 11:37:31 PM

Quote:
I have a $1,000,000 server sitting in my server room right now weighing in at just under 1,000lbs.


I have a $800 Pentium 75Mhz, it weighs shy of 24lbs..... :wink:
June 27, 2007 12:03:23 AM

Only 4 T1s?

I have access to gigabit.

Quote:
Yeah, I'd love to do that. We have 4 NLB T1s here too. :p 
July 4, 2007 10:42:44 AM

My employer spends ~£30million with IBM as an annual support contract. I have never seen a service as bad in my life. Truly I would rather take my chances with Dell customer services than these boys. Maybe if we paid more we would get more but a shear inability to take down basic details or a description of a fault should be independent of any SLA written into the contract. There is no excuse for crap customer service nowadays.
July 4, 2007 10:50:02 AM

Quote:
Yes, the AS/400 can run any OS on its additional space. To do so is beyond retarded though in most cases. The hard drives to run the as/400 / i520 (it is an operating system itself - not sure you were aware of that) is highly expensive. Running any other OS on it would really be a waste of highly expensive HDD space.


But surely you would just host this on iSCSI or some form of SAN? Also its not so retarded when you use it as a presentation layer. Virtualisation allows for some great sport in this regard.

Can you also explain to us Riser why you don't see that RedHat is actually creating and selling a product / service just like MS. I really do struggle to see the difference other than size / marketing and an evil set of Lawyers.
July 4, 2007 10:54:32 AM

Quote:
Only 4 T1s?

I have access to gigabit.

Yeah, I'd love to do that. We have 4 NLB T1s here too. :p 


Bring on the piddling contest.. :roll: We supply Multi Gb and dark fiber connections and own the transit switches behind them.. Yes linux_0.. My employers CISCO is bigger than your employers CISCO :p  :wink: [/In good humor]
July 4, 2007 12:34:59 PM

:lol:  :lol: 
July 4, 2007 4:00:41 PM

My employer is about to be bought out by a firm of investment bankers.. Not one of a certain billionaires best investment moves in the last few years..

[/no more due to NDA]
July 4, 2007 4:02:48 PM

Yes.. but does it run Windows [/Riser] :wink:
August 1, 2007 1:42:44 AM

Quote:

Yes, the AS/400 can run any OS on its additional space. To do so is beyond retarded though in most cases. The hard drives to run the as/400 / i520 (it is an operating system itself - not sure you were aware of that) is highly expensive. Running any other OS on it would really be a waste of highly expensive HDD space.



IBM is using Linux on some very expensive hardware and are in fact consolidating their systems using Linux.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/17998

:) 
!