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Need help choosing an AGP graphics card.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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May 9, 2007 3:11:56 PM

Hi, i'm in need of some help on choosing a graphics card...

My mobo is a Msi ms-6533, so it's a 4x agp slot (i'm guessing) currently using an ati radeon 7500.

My new monitor (Dell 2000fp) has a DVI-D dual link connection, so i want to utilise that.

What would be the best graphics card perfomance wise to utilise the monitors 20.1" screen.

Any recommendations would help.

Thanking you all in advance.
May 9, 2007 3:14:10 PM

depends on the rest of your system aswell.

if you have a good enough psu and good enough cpu then you can go all the way upto the new x1950XT agp cards.
May 9, 2007 3:19:52 PM

>>>>>>

Intel P4, 2500 Mhz (25x100) (northwood)
512 MB (pc2100 ddr sdram)
I'll have to check my psu wattage, any way to check without opening case?

Would my mobo use an 8x agp card to it's full potential (it will be limited won't it) So is it not better to go with the best 4x agp card? Or does that not matter?

Thanks
Related resources
May 9, 2007 3:20:27 PM

Quote:
depends on the rest of your system aswell.

if you have a good enough psu and good enough cpu then you can go all the way upto the new x1950XT agp cards.


Agreed.

System specs?
May 9, 2007 3:22:10 PM

Oh and my new monitors screen res is 1600x1200. (hope that helps).
May 9, 2007 3:23:07 PM

8x AGP will work perfectly fine. How about your PSU???
May 9, 2007 3:47:56 PM

I got no idea about the psu wattage right now, i'll have a check later. But psu doesn't matter to me because they're cheap.

So if anyone has ideas on what i should go for, please post your recommendation.
May 9, 2007 3:56:47 PM

Also (more importantly) check the amperage on the 12v rail. You're PSU is probably going to be the deciding factor on your upgrade, unless you have it in your budget to upgrade that as well. Speaking of which...what's your budget?
May 9, 2007 4:06:51 PM

About £100 .. (about $200).. What's 12v rail, all i know about Psu's are the wattage (thought that if i changed that, it would work)


The other day, i was just looking at the Ati radeon 9600pro 256mb, the Asus 9800xt and few others (wasn't sure new agp cards would work)
May 9, 2007 4:29:27 PM

What agp 8x card should I get?

P4 3.2Ghz
1.5GB RAM
dual 350 Watt PSU w/15A Rail
Audigy 2zs Platinum

I cuurently have a Chaintech Geforce 6600 256MB
May 9, 2007 4:46:56 PM

bump ...anyone with ideas on what i should go for?
May 9, 2007 4:48:15 PM

Vicious9power

The watts on a psu are not enough any more. Its how much of the power is going to what part of your system that makes a difference. The newer cards need around 25-30 amps on the +12v rail. An example would be my own system (look below at the sig area). I run it all with a 380 watt psu, but most "cheap" 500 watt psu's wouldnt be able to run it in a stable manner.

If you dont know what a 12V rail is, just open your case and on the side of your psu it will state the total power (in watts) and then it will list a few rails like +5, +12, -12 etc. Next to those or under those depending on the psu, it will tell you what the total amp is that the rail can hold. Let us know what it says.


Also I can tell you now that your cpu would be a major bottleneck to most of the newer cards. your best bet would probably be a 7600 or a x1650pro/xt. But all of this may change once you tell us what your +12v amp reading is.


Arminhama

The amps on your +12v rail is quite low. Last I heard even the 7600 required around 20 amps.

If anything, you may be able to get away with a x800 or x850 from ati, or a 6000 series card from nvidia but im not too sure about that.

In any case, you should really consider getting a better psu if you plan to upgrade.
May 9, 2007 5:10:50 PM

I figured that would be the case..thanks for the reply
May 9, 2007 7:23:07 PM

I don't play much games on my pc, just looking for something mid-range that would use the DVI connection ... any suggestions..
May 9, 2007 7:54:20 PM

Quote:
I don't play much games on my pc, just looking for something mid-range that would use the DVI connection ... any suggestions..

well with your system specs i wouldnt get anything new your pc would just bottleneck it, thats R9600pro you saw is a pretty card, my best friend has a R9600pro 128mb that thhing still runs games today :)  its a great card and for you it would be perfect :) 
May 9, 2007 8:10:58 PM

Quote:
Vicious9power

The watts on a psu are not enough any more. Its how much of the power is going to what part of your system that makes a difference. The newer cards need around 25-30 amps on the +12v rail. An example would be my own system (look below at the sig area). I run it all with a 380 watt psu, but most "cheap" 500 watt psu's wouldnt be able to run it in a stable manner.

If you dont know what a 12V rail is, just open your case and on the side of your psu it will state the total power (in watts) and then it will list a few rails like +5, +12, -12 etc. Next to those or under those depending on the psu, it will tell you what the total amp is that the rail can hold. Let us know what it says.


Right, i got the reading.

Model - FSP250-60GTA (MDN)
Max output 250w

DC Output: +3.3v - 16A, +5v - 25A, +12v - 13A, +5vsb - 2A, -5v - 0.3A, -12v - 0.8A

Any ideas what i could get with this psu (I don't mind upgrading psu)

If it comes to upgrading psu, which should i go for (any recommendations)

Thanks
May 9, 2007 8:21:25 PM

anything over 300W will do for a 9600pro , i would get something like a 400W Forton :) 
May 9, 2007 8:58:00 PM

Hmm so with my setup right now, what graphics card could i go for that would have DVI connection and support 1600x1200 res?

How does the Enermax 550w EG651P-VE (psu) perform, is it too loud?
May 9, 2007 9:05:37 PM

well if i read properly its 550w which should be enough :) 
May 9, 2007 10:36:29 PM

bump...could anyone else help and answer my questions? :wink:
May 9, 2007 10:53:38 PM

You could probably get away with a 7600GS. Here's a nice Silent ASUS card that's within your budget. The 7600GS is a very power efficient card and since you don't game much, chances are very likely that your current FSP PSU will handle it fine.

If it turns out you do need a PSU, this FSP 400W would work nicely too but it would put you £13 over budget (VAT Included) with the 7600GS.

If you really want to go cheap, then there are 2 Radeon 9550 cards at OC UK going for £23.49 inc VAT, each. Both have DVI and both will work with your current PSU and will still be a substantial upgrade over your old 7500. Or you can go with that 9600Pro which will work well with your current PSU too.

The 9800XT is a power hungry card and will test the limits of that little 250W FSP PSU (most likely folding it), but if you can throw in that 400W FSP PSU I linked to above and still get the 9800XT at your £100 budget you'll have an excellent upgrade that will compliment your system perfectly.
May 9, 2007 11:37:12 PM

Quote:
You could probably get away with a 7600GS. Here's a nice Silent ASUS card that's within your budget. The 7600GS is a very power efficient card and since you don't game much, chances are very likely that your current FSP PSU will handle it fine.


Is there 7600gs with ddr3?

X/VISION 256MB GeF 7600GS SONIC AGP RETAIL (this one says it has ddr3)

Web Address www.xpertvision.com.tw

will it handle this with current psu?

Should most PSUs work with my mobo?
May 10, 2007 1:12:09 AM

Quote:


If you really want to go cheap, then there are 2 Radeon 9550 cards at OC UK going for £23.49 inc VAT, each. Both have DVI and both will work with your current PSU and will still be a substantial upgrade over your old 7500. Or you can go with that 9600Pro which will work well with your current PSU too.


Anoobis are there any other cards that would most likely work with my current PSU with DVI?

You said the 9600pro would work fine, how about the 9600xt?

Thanks
May 10, 2007 10:16:52 AM

I would suggest you upgrade your psu along with the card just to be safe.


you can try the 9600XT but Im pretty sure it uses a tad bit more power than the pro.
May 10, 2007 2:37:45 PM

People who have suggested i should upgrade my PSU, could you recommend some PSUs and if it's not too much hassle link the PSUs to UK sites where i can buy them.

Thanks
May 10, 2007 4:59:31 PM

I'll try to answer all of your questions.

Quote:
Isn't that a new card?

Uhh...I don't know what you're asking. All the cards I linked to were new.

Quote:
Is there 7600gs with ddr3?

Yes, there are DDR3 7600GSs out there but they're hard to find and they carry a price premium that's hard to justify over other cards in their price range.

Quote:
You said the 9600pro would work fine, how about the 9600xt?

Believe it or not, it looks as though the 9600Pro and 9600XT use less power than your 7500. Check eXtreme Outervision's PSU calculator for more info. Here's the catch. That calculator could be throwing out GPU idle numbers. Many newer cards throttle up during heavy 3D use like gaming. It's why a card on a dodgy PSU can work fine for normal 2D office use but kicks the PSU in the nutz when a game kicks up.

Honestly I agree with everyone else who has said it's a good idea to upgrade you PSU. A well-thought out purchase on a quality PSU is always a good decision. A good PSU can be transferred into future builds for quite some time. Stay away from cut-rate generic brands. I prefer FSP even though I'm currently using a Mushkin (re-branded FSP :wink: ). PC Power and Cooling are excellent quality but very expensive. Antec's mid-high range stuff is good but I would stay away from the lower-end stuff like their SmartPower Series. Many (including me) have had problems with that series.

If you see yourself upgrading your entire system in the next year or so, spending a little extra now on a good PSU means you don't have to spend it then. This 460W Zalman is more than the first one I linked to earlier but will easily last you a long time in your next build and still handle just about any GPU you throw at it aside from an exotic SLI/Crossfire setup. IIRC, Zalman PSUs built by FSP just like Mushkin and OCZ PSUs. That unit has plenty of power across the 12 Volt rails to hold you over quite well.
May 10, 2007 11:38:51 PM

Well i'm looking at the FSP AX450-PNF, the FSP blue storm 2 500w, the Seasonic S12-430 .. Which one's better out the three?... or anything similar but better in your opinion?

Is the fsp AX450-PN (used in the tomshardware system marathon day one here) the same as the fsp AX450-PNF @ www.scan.co.uk here?

Btw, does the AX450-PNF have dual 12v rails?

Thanks
May 11, 2007 12:53:16 PM

Bump.... anyone there to help?
May 11, 2007 1:45:25 PM

Quote:
DC Output: +3.3v - 16A, +5v - 25A, +12v - 13A, +5vsb - 2A, -5v - 0.3A, -12v - 0.8A

If I read that correctly, 13 amps on a single 12v rail is marginal for newer cards. I'd go with that 550 you were looking at or, perhaps, this FSP AX450 450W Power Supply - it offers 18 amps on both 12v rails. Don't want to get a nice card and not have sufficient power to run it. Check this forum for PSU recommendations:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Power-Supplies-...
May 11, 2007 4:37:27 PM

Quote:
Well i'm looking at the FSP AX450-PNF, the FSP blue storm 2 500w, the Seasonic S12-430 .. Which one's better out the three?... or anything similar but better in your opinion?

OK....out of those 3, I would go with the FSP AX450-PNF. From the data that I could find, it has 30A across both 12V rails which is more than enough power for the average user (barring any hybrid GPU setups). Seasonic is a quality manufacturer but this particular unit is a little weak with only 14A on 12V1 and 15A on 12V2. Since they didn't list wattage it's hard to tell what the max amperage of both rails combined is. It's not as simple as adding 12V1 (14A) with 12V2 (15A). The FSP Blue Storm 2 seems to carry a hefty price premium for the retail packaging and extra 50W. Too much when it has the exact same amperage on 12V1 & 12V2 rails as the FSP AX450-PNF.

Whether or not the FSP AX450-PNF is the same as in the Tom's Article I couldn't tell you, but it does have dual 12V rails. I wish I had spotted it earlier as I would have recommended it over the Zalman. Scan's website actually sucks when it comes to searching and sorting things.
May 11, 2007 9:38:41 PM

Thanks looks like i'll be going for the FSP AX450-PNF, unless i sort a deal for a Seasonic s12-600 for the same price...


Should i go for the Seasonic S12-600 if i can get it for the same price as the FSP AX450-PNF?
May 11, 2007 10:41:23 PM

Well, I guess so but don't hold your breath too much. That unit is almost twice the cost of the FSP AX450-PNF and is a bit of overkill. However, that's certainly a unit that should last a few builds or so. So, if you can get it for the same cost...grab it, otherwise the FSP AX450-PNF will be just fine.

Either one will easily power a 7600GS.
May 12, 2007 5:12:16 PM

What you mean by "overkill", anyways i got a deal on the Seasonic S12-600 for £72 delivered, Is it worth it or should i just go for the FSP AX450-PNF for £53 delivered from www.scan.co.uk?

Some opinions would help..
:) 
May 12, 2007 8:17:51 PM

Bump... Could anyone answer my question?
May 13, 2007 2:48:15 PM

Is the Seasonic S12-600 a good choice for that price, or should i just stick with the FSP?
May 14, 2007 1:36:50 AM

I bought the Seasonic S12-600

:D  Ok, now on to the next step, the graphics card.

What would be the best card for around £30-£50?
May 15, 2007 4:53:25 PM

List a few sites where you buy computer hardware.
May 15, 2007 5:20:41 PM

Quote:
I bought the Seasonic S12-600

:D  Ok, now on to the next step, the graphics card.

What would be the best card for around £30-£50?


Can you go any higher than that? 7600GS' can be had for around £60-£70.
May 15, 2007 5:50:48 PM

Sorry dude, but getting answers over the weekend can take time and you should be patient.

By "overkill" I meant that it was more PSU than you'll likely need for a while. However, if you got a good deal on it then you at least have a quality unit that's going to last a few rebuilds over time now.

But here's the problem, you seemed to have over extended your budget. Now you're looking for a card in the £30-£50 range when you were looking in the £100 range. This is going to greatly reduce your options especially since you're looking for an AGP card. There is this Gigabyte 7600GS for £55.80 Inc VAT but I think eBay is going to be your best bet.

Now that you have a good PSU, you can open up your choices in the older generation of cards. X800s, 6800s (except the 6800XT) etc. You're going to get more card for your money this route.
May 15, 2007 9:34:21 PM

Hmm ok so i'll up my budget to £70.. What now?
May 15, 2007 9:57:15 PM

Either the 7600GT Gary_Busey linked to or this X1650XT.
May 20, 2007 2:11:39 PM

Both the 7600gt and x1650xt that are linked take up two slots don't they? My pci slots are taken up...So there won't be room for those graphics cards...

Any ideas?
May 21, 2007 11:35:50 PM

Brand new for £55 delivered.. any good? :p 
May 22, 2007 12:05:24 AM

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty decent deal.
!