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One Step Closer to Freedom

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Last response: in Linux/Free BSD
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August 16, 2008 11:41:31 PM

I just wanted to say that I have finally gotten Starcraft to work 100% game-wise (still b.net black window bug but that is ok). It is no longer laggy on wine nor does it drop from battle.net every 5 minutes any more! With that, I can officially play the only games that I have constantly returned to without windows :)  Tribes 2 and Quake 3 and Nexuiz all have native linux clients and now that Starcraft will run almost perfectly I have no real reason to ever want to boot back into windows, and indeed I haven't booted windows for almost a month now :D  If they ever release the Unreal 3 Linux client, port steam & source to linux, and make SPORE run acceptably well I may just consider wiping my winXP partition altogether! Haha. For now though, I think enough games to choose from that will run under Linux that my reboots will be few and far between.

Just thought I might share that with you guys.

-Zorak

More about : step closer freedom

August 17, 2008 12:33:43 AM

[:mousemonkey:5] :D 

nuff said
August 17, 2008 8:22:40 PM

Fantastic news! There are those who might say "Well, why not just use Windows? It's a lot easier" to which I say I'd like to see Windows support (correctly) a multi-user environment with sane (and usable) privilege separation, or as a distributed build server, or get Windows to support older (sometimes less than 5 years old) hardware or even support current hardware better (unlike most Windows users of the MX Revolution mouse, I get middle-clicking and I set the "free-scroll" switch to my choosing, hell, I can control the system volume from my mouse!), and the list goes on.

Anytime that one OS can run another OS's binaries unaltered, especially an OS as dark and mysterious internally as Windows, that's something special. A hardy applause for the WINE team.
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August 17, 2008 10:21:36 PM

Very much agreed bmouring! The WINE guys certainly have done a great job.

In a way, I see Linux as a gift. It offers me superior technology for free forever. Maybe one day there will be an OS whose technology is superior to Linux, but it would have to be a lot better to compete with "free forever". More than that, though, I REALLY LOVE the choice that I am given. All the configuration options and choice inherent to this OS work well for me because it is just an extension of my computer usage philosophy. For me, I will always prefer a custom PC that I built myself over a machine made by Dell/HP/Fujitsu &c and the choice provided by Linux reflects that perfectly at a software level.

For me, there is nothing quite like having a 100% custom computer :D 

-Zorak
August 19, 2008 7:00:15 PM

WINE has inadvertently stifled the development of native Linux applications by allowing users to continue using Windows applications. Developer time could have been better spent on developing native applications rather than re-inventing the wheel and providing binary support to a fundamentally flawed platform.

Discuss.

[/After a debate not a flame war - You know I like to play Devils Advocate!!]
August 19, 2008 7:50:37 PM

I think you make a valid point, audiovoodoo, but I think that would be a better argument if we lived in an ideal world. Unfortunately, since Linux is still stuck in the chicken-or-the-egg phase where native development isn't yet viable, projects like WINE are the best way to break out of that phase and build momentum for native Linux development. However, I feel that because Linux is currently stuck in the chicken-or-egg phase, the community should show extra gratitude toward developers that do make the effort and make native Linux versions of their programs (like id or Epic Games or NVIDIA/ATI/Intel or any of those other devs), that way we encourage them to continue supporting Linux and act as role models for other companies to jump on the Linux support bandwagon.

-Zorak
August 19, 2008 9:01:25 PM

I like the direction. :) 

Yes, I do take my hat off to the many skilled folk that work to develop the collection of applications and tools. One common complaint is that the disparate nature of Linux development works as much against it as it does for it. We DO have the resources, we DO have the skills. What we lack at present is consensus and more importantly direction.

From a sys admin perspective I've never liked the idea of using interface layers to gain wholly unsupported functionality. Whilst your application might run today what is to say that a future application update might break it? It's just not the sort of solution you can take into the enterprise and expect to get taken seriously. So.. lets take one of the prime areas that WINE targets, Windows productivity. What do you think has done more to move Linux forward in that market. WINE or OpenOffice?

I wholly agree that we should support those companies that make the effort. That having been said I'm not happy with the GMA 3500 drivers for my latest MB from Intel, my old Radeon never had good drivers under Linux and to top it off I've been hearing some folk talk of only buying ATi until Nvida get there ship back on course. These are the big players and still the situation is not 100%.

I can't help but feel that as a community we need to work smarter rather than harder. Linus and RMS have done a good job of setting things rolling. What we need now is the next phase. Somebody to come along and bring it all back together.





August 20, 2008 12:50:41 PM

To answer your question audiovoodoo, i think it would be necessary to do a poll of companies that actually use desktop linux and OO.o (even on windows) vs companies that use WINE + MSOffice. Barring that, I don't see how it would be possible to make non-'bellyfeel' judgements about which has done more to move Linux forward.

What are you suggesting when you say that we ought to work smarter? I am genuinely curious how the community might do that. People often suggest that to do that we have to pick one DE to rule them all and dump all the others, but I think that will never happen as it goes against the inherent choice programmers have on which one they want to work on. This may not be your suggestion, but it is something I have noticed in the umpteen-million "this is how Linux will gain marketshare" articles I have read ;) 

-Zorak
August 21, 2008 8:43:25 AM

Linux won't become mainstream until people can install by double click.
August 21, 2008 1:54:39 PM

While it is true Linux will gain a big advantage when you can double click and walk away, i don't think that is the condition Linux depends on to become mainstream. I think the thing that helped windows become dominant (and maintain dominance) is the fact that it comes pre-installed. For about 80-90% of the people, hearing the phrase "install operating system" sounds like a major engineering feat that they would be terrified to do themselves, and I think it will stay that way forever, this is just human nature. What will help Linux become mainstream is when more vendors like Dell and Asus start offering their computers with Linux pre-installed. When we see commercials on TV advertising the new HP or Dell whatever and they explicitly mention Linux, THEN we will be well on our way to the mainstream.

-Zorak
August 21, 2008 2:46:59 PM

I mean like a really simple Linux... buy from shops pop it in and voila!

I mean no gparted and etc.

Auto install drivers and etc.

Similar in appearance to Windows.

double click install...

Something preinstalled like the EEE pc?
August 21, 2008 4:07:59 PM

Quote:
buy from shops pop it in and voila!
I think that you're expecting a wee bit too much.! I don't know of any OS that installs that easily; certainly no brand of Windows does. Intallation-wise I find most Linux distributions to be as easy as Windows - indeed, with some hardware the Linux installation is easier.

As Zorak says, most people don't install Windows but buy it pre-installed.
August 21, 2008 11:52:30 PM

I certainly think little notebooks like the eeePC will help linux make inroads into the desktop market, but it makes me wonder how many of the linux eee's stay with Linux on them.

The other thing that makes me worry a bit is that a lot of people don't know JACK about computers, so they end up buying one with Linux because it is cheaper, and then they wonder why program X from the bargain bin won't run on it and they return the computer. I think the spread of linux will be in a trickle down fashion from the most computer savvy to the least computer savvy.

Even though you hear so many stories now a days about how someone's mom or grandma or uncle knows squat about computers and is using Ubuntu for more than a year, I think the problem I outlined above is still a major fundamental problem that Linux faces. Increased marketshare may be a tall order, but there are some brilliant minds working on desktop Linux, so if anyone can figure it out, they can.

-Zorak
August 22, 2008 12:50:48 AM

Out in the boondocks where I live, it is impossible to find someone experienced to help you with Linux. Windows has so many users it is easier to bounce questions off people. I think that Debian and fedora core have similar learning curves for people just getting started.
I built a low cost amd based pc and put Debian 4 on it. I used older tested components though went with a m audio audiophile 24/96 sound card.
Linux offers a lot for a multimedia player. It rips cd's, plays movies, has word proocessing and calculations
debian installs easily while connected to the internet and with a little experience with installing the dirver scripts, the apps work well.
My criticism is that the internet browser seems slow compared to windows xp, which could be configuration

August 22, 2008 5:32:34 AM

Zorak said:
I certainly think little notebooks like the eeePC will help linux make inroads into the desktop market, but it makes me wonder how many of the linux eee's stay with Linux on them.

The other thing that makes me worry a bit is that a lot of people don't know JACK about computers, so they end up buying one with Linux because it is cheaper, and then they wonder why program X from the bargain bin won't run on it and they return the computer. I think the spread of linux will be in a trickle down fashion from the most computer savvy to the least computer savvy.

Even though you hear so many stories now a days about how someone's mom or grandma or uncle knows squat about computers and is using Ubuntu for more than a year, I think the problem I outlined above is still a major fundamental problem that Linux faces. Increased marketshare may be a tall order, but there are some brilliant minds working on desktop Linux, so if anyone can figure it out, they can.

-Zorak


True. Someone must invent auto-wine or something =P
August 26, 2008 8:34:27 AM

The only serious issue that Linux has with installation is that users are still having to do it. Untill the system comes pre installed it will never match the end user experience for the majority of home PC purchases.
September 4, 2008 6:50:54 PM

cheers to orig post idea


i ran nexius and Wolf ET on vector linux for 2 months
there are some fun MMORPG for linux also

Planeshift was good


AGREED SPORE NEEDS NATIVE LINUX!!!!!!!



i havent played Quake3 in a few years but im still a FAN

i need BF1942 to run in linux

i never tried WINE
but i'll get to again when my MB issues are settled




anyone ever play DwarfFortress?
amazing fun
September 5, 2008 1:55:10 AM

Actually, id is now releasing quake live on the browser for FREE. So basically we have a free copy of quake 3 arena that will have a huge number of players and that launches in the browser. I think this will help our community out since we will have support thanks to id's awesome continuing commitment to Linux gamimg :D 

-Zorak

P.S. I think I will wait to see just how good SPORE is before buying it. I have had such a nice experience with Gentoo Linux that i'd rather not reboot to winXP until I am absolutely sure I want to (since I don't have any games that aren't running under Linux and/or WINE with the possible exception of peggle?)
!