Which is Better?

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

S-Video is WORSE.

"Les" <kg1d@charter.net> wrote in message
news:UgYwd.9746$XL2.3963@fe04.lga...
>I have a satellite receiver which has both Y/G Pr/R Pb/B & S-vidio output.
>Which is better?
> Les
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Quality of cabling (in order from strongest to weakest quality):

1. SVGA, FireWire, DVI, HDMI (digital inputs, all are equal in terms of
picture quality)
2. Component Video (Y/G Pr/R Pb/B) - analog cable capable of delivering
1080i or 720p
3. S-Video - incapable of delivering HD
4. RCA/Composite Video - incapable of delivering HD
5. Coax - incapable of delivering uncompressed HD.

On number 5 I say uncompressed not to confuse those with HD tuners
built into their sets. Compressed HD transfers just fine through a coax
cable from a antenna into your 8-VSB digital tuner where it is then
decoded (uncompressed).

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Les" <kg1d@charter.net> wrote in message
news:UgYwd.9746$XL2.3963@fe04.lga...
>I have a satellite receiver which has both Y/G Pr/R Pb/B & S-vidio output.
>Which is better?
> Les

the Y/Pr/Pb component output has the best picture = highest resolution and
immunity to noise
RGB is the same for resolution but less resistant to noise
both are capable of HD

S is NOT capable of HD and has lower resolution, particularly color
resolution.

Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog, the
S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D comb
filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture better
than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used when
processing composite or S-video.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mostly correct, except SVGA is analog, not digital and sometimes the
S-video/composite comparison is not correct. Sources that do not start with
encoding of separate luma and chroma (mostly anything but VHS these days)
have to separate the two to create S-video outputs. If the filter in the
source is better than the filter in the destination, then it makes sense to
use the S-Video. More likely, if you have a good display with a 3-line or
3-d comb filter, you will get better results by using the composite cable.

Also, IEEE1394 (FireWire, etc) may be more bandwidth limited if units with
lower bandwidth are in the signal chain and it may not be uncompressed
digital that is being sent and received. DVI and HDMI are always
uncompressed digital, but the source may have been something of lesser
quality. All transfer types are dependent on the quality of the original
image and the processing and compression along the distribution path.

Leonard

<jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:1103387800.980610.222080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Quality of cabling (in order from strongest to weakest quality):
>
> 1. SVGA, FireWire, DVI, HDMI (digital inputs, all are equal in terms of
> picture quality)
> 2. Component Video (Y/G Pr/R Pb/B) - analog cable capable of delivering
> 1080i or 720p
> 3. S-Video - incapable of delivering HD
> 4. RCA/Composite Video - incapable of delivering HD
> 5. Coax - incapable of delivering uncompressed HD.
>
> On number 5 I say uncompressed not to confuse those with HD tuners
> built into their sets. Compressed HD transfers just fine through a coax
> cable from a antenna into your 8-VSB digital tuner where it is then
> decoded (uncompressed).
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <1103387800.980610.222080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
jeremy@pdq.net writes:

>Quality of cabling (in order from strongest to weakest quality):

>1. SVGA, FireWire, DVI, HDMI (digital inputs, all are equal in terms of
>picture quality)
>2. Component Video (Y/G Pr/R Pb/B) - analog cable capable of delivering
>1080i or 720p
>3. S-Video - incapable of delivering HD
>4. RCA/Composite Video - incapable of delivering HD
>5. Coax - incapable of delivering uncompressed HD.

>On number 5 I say uncompressed not to confuse those with HD tuners
>built into their sets. Compressed HD transfers just fine through a coax
>cable from a antenna into your 8-VSB digital tuner where it is then
>decoded (uncompressed).

Good (and accurate) summary Jeremy. Thanks for passing it along.

And note well everyone, nowhere in this list of cables do we see any
mention or hint of "Monster Cables". So for heaven's sake, save your
money. Within the above types, a cable is a cable, is a cable. Do not
allow anyone to convince you (or suggest) otherwise.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:59:50 -0500, "Randy Sweeney"
<rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote:


>Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog, the
>S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D comb
>filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture better
>than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used when
>processing composite or S-video.

This is very good information. I just purchased a front projector
Yamaha LPX-510 and haven't yet upgraded cable to HD. So for now I am
using S-Video and about half of the shows are great. Some commercials
are spectacular, such as the Sharp Aqueos with the VW doing a plunge.
DVD's are also super with S-Video. So don't throw away those old
cables too quickly. They may come in handy for NTSC PQ.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"klaatu" <blobnospam@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:gjo9s01afjn7tc2b5093erra19je49ahgk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:59:50 -0500, "Randy Sweeney"
> <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog,
>>the
>>S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D comb
>>filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture better
>>than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used when
>>processing composite or S-video.
>
> This is very good information. I just purchased a front projector
> Yamaha LPX-510 and haven't yet upgraded cable to HD. So for now I am
> using S-Video and about half of the shows are great. Some commercials
> are spectacular, such as the Sharp Aqueos with the VW doing a plunge.
> DVD's are also super with S-Video. So don't throw away those old
> cables too quickly. They may come in handy for NTSC PQ.


Your Yamaha is an exception to the rule... unlike most monitors, it has
digital image processing Faroudja DCDi circuitry that does an incredibly job
at improving both analog AND digital images... Faroudja is the absolute
best at cleaning up NTSC color and interpolating addition "resolution"

and it's very good on interlaced digital images such as those of DVD's. (You
should connect the DVD via the component cables and not S - or better yet,
via HDMI if you have a digital output DVD)

But it's still just faking it on NTSC sourced material -- You are in for a
real treat when you hook up a true HD source to this machine if you think it
looks "spectacular" now, as you have one of the best home front projectors
out there.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

klaatu wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:59:50 -0500, "Randy Sweeney"
> <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog, the
>>S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D comb
>>filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture better
>>than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used when
>>processing composite or S-video.
>
>
> This is very good information.

Unfortunately, it is wrong information. S-video connections carry luma
and chroma separately so the signal will bypass the comb filter. The
comb filter only processes composite signals.

Matthew

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Randy Sweeney wrote:
>
> Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC
analog, the
> S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D
comb
> filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture
better
> than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used
when
> processing composite or S-video.

Thanks for mentioning this. I found this to be true on my set (Hitachi
57T600), if your cable/satellite box offers both component and s-video,
it's not a bad idea to connect a cable to each (most HDTVs have plenty
of inputs, so why not) and just switch between the two to clean up the
picture a bit on the SD channels. One other thing to note on this is
that some cable/sat boxes now have 1080i upconversion and filtering
built in. SA 8000 box has this as a feature you can enable/disable.
This performs the same operation as the Faroudja chip and if you turn
this on and you're happy with it you can just stick to the
component/DVI/HDMI cabling. I've found that the upconversion and
filtering technology inside my set produces a bit better quality than
that of the cable box so I still use a two cable setup.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:53:52 -0500, "Matthew L. Martin"
<nothere@notnow.never> wrote:

>klaatu wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:59:50 -0500, "Randy Sweeney"
>> <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog, the
>>>S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D comb
>>>filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture better
>>>than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only used when
>>>processing composite or S-video.
>>
>>
>> This is very good information.
>
>Unfortunately, it is wrong information. S-video connections carry luma
>and chroma separately so the signal will bypass the comb filter. The
>comb filter only processes composite signals.
>
>Matthew
This setup is only temporary. After the Holidays I will do the right
hookups. Plus I need a 16:9 screen to replace the 4:3. BTW, S-Video
PQ is somewhat better than composite on this set. I have no idea why
the PQ is so good. I am using a JVC vcr as the tuner fed to a JVC
reciever for the signal. Last night the Elvis Costello concert from
Austin City Limits on PBS in widescreen was superb.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
news:10sb20og7i69261@corp.supernews.com...
> klaatu wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:59:50 -0500, "Randy Sweeney"
>> <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Strangely though, for outputting over-the-air broadcasts of NTSC analog,
>>>the S can actually look better as virtually all digital monitors have 3D
>>>comb filters that can clean up the color artifacts of the NTSC picture
>>>better than most set-top box receivers and these comb filters are only
>>>used when processing composite or S-video.
>>
>>
>> This is very good information.
>
> Unfortunately, it is wrong information. S-video connections carry luma and
> chroma separately so the signal will bypass the comb filter. The comb
> filter only processes composite signals.

thanks
you are correct... comb filters PRODUCE S-video from composite, not process
it
I need to put my mind into gear before writing

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mr Fixit" <MrFixit@msn.com> wrote in message

> And note well everyone, nowhere in this list of cables do we see any
> mention or hint of "Monster Cables". So for heaven's sake, save your
> money. Within the above types, a cable is a cable, is a cable. Do not
> allow anyone to convince you (or suggest) otherwise.

Re: cables

I just bought a DVI-HDMI cable for $8.50.
(Yep, eight dollars and fifty cents!)

Works just fine. I also picked up a spare set of 6-foot component cables
with the same order for $4. The component cables were put together very
well. I'll probably be ordering a few more soon for another DVD/TV.

I can't say enough good things about the retailer I purchased them from.
Everything from their web site, to shipment/tracking, and follow-up was
professional all around. Not affilliated with them or anything, but with so
many snake-oil cable retailers out there, I don't mind giving them their due
props. Don't just take my word on them though. also check out what other
customers have written for them on "Reseller Ratings".

Anyway, the retailer is: http://www.monoprice.com

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:10scj7frs3sf3af@corp.supernews.com...
> I just bought a DVI-HDMI cable for $8.50.
> (Yep, eight dollars and fifty cents!)

Thanks for the tip. Anyone know which kind of DVI cable do I need from my
Dish sat receiver to Samsung DLP tv? It's obviously male on each end, but
is it a single or dual link?

Rob




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Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The order is not quite right. SVGA is not a digital signal, it's analog. It
may or may not have advantages over the Component Video, depending on where
it originates. The Pr and Pb channels on component video usually have a
lower bandwidth to save space. So the order from the potential (realized or
not) should be:

1. DVI, HDMI, Firewire (digital)
2. RGB (including VGA, SVGA, XGA and what have you) analog, any resolution
you want
3. Component Video - analog, any resolution you want
4. S-Video - analog, Standard NTSC resolution
5. Composite Video - analog, Standard NTSC resolution
6. RF (modulated composite) - analog, Standard NTSC resolution.

I don't know why it Coax is being called a signal type, it's a wire type
that can and is being used for all signal types.
I am with you on the Monster cable, it's a monster scam. Get an inexpensive
cable, say for about twenty bucks for Component HD video. Then borrow a set
of really expensive cables, if you can. Compare! You will not to see a
difference, at least not with cables that are under 10' long.


"Mr Fixit" <MrFixit@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ut59s0hd4b7rv1lcl50em7ron6rq1o6qmp@4ax.com...
> In article <1103387800.980610.222080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
> jeremy@pdq.net writes:
>
>>Quality of cabling (in order from strongest to weakest quality):
>
>>1. SVGA, FireWire, DVI, HDMI (digital inputs, all are equal in terms of
>>picture quality)
>>2. Component Video (Y/G Pr/R Pb/B) - analog cable capable of delivering
>>1080i or 720p
>>3. S-Video - incapable of delivering HD
>>4. RCA/Composite Video - incapable of delivering HD
>>5. Coax - incapable of delivering uncompressed HD.
>
>>On number 5 I say uncompressed not to confuse those with HD tuners
>>built into their sets. Compressed HD transfers just fine through a coax
>>cable from a antenna into your 8-VSB digital tuner where it is then
>>decoded (uncompressed).
>
> Good (and accurate) summary Jeremy. Thanks for passing it along.
>
> And note well everyone, nowhere in this list of cables do we see any
> mention or hint of "Monster Cables". So for heaven's sake, save your
> money. Within the above types, a cable is a cable, is a cable. Do not
> allow anyone to convince you (or suggest) otherwise.
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The Y/G Pr/R and Pb/B are component video and is much better than S-video.

"Les" <kg1d@charter.net> wrote in message
news:UgYwd.9746$XL2.3963@fe04.lga...
>I have a satellite receiver which has both Y/G Pr/R Pb/B & S-vidio output.
>Which is better?
> Les
>