Upgrade Advice

[bash]

Hi, first post!

I'm about to do a fairly major upgrade to my computer. Obviously I want the most price efficient option, so I will give you some of my ideas...
Obviously this system is built for gaming The most intensive game I need it for will probably be Oblivion...
Currently I can run it on fairly low settings and get decent FPS. Would like it to look better though!

My current setup is:

Shit case/low-average 500W EZCool PSU (I will get a new case, I need something with a door on the front to hide the fact that my CD drive is so ugly... thinking something in the price range of $100-150 Australian, simplistic, black or silver, and functional; for the PSU I think I will keep for now, I might upgrade it to a better brand perhaps, but so much more I need to upgrade and probably can't afford)

On board sound - I listen to music a lot, so if there is a really good sound card for under $100 that would be great. I only have 2.1 speakers though, so i suppose ther eis not much point? My mobo has fairly good on board sound anyhow.

ATI Radeon X850PRO - I bought this almost 2 years ago when it was incredibly expensive. It is also AGP, which is annoying! It broke down a few weeks ago, and I have sent it to be replaced - fingers crossed they give me something new, and preferably PCI-e

Athlon XP 2800+ - This is the main component i want to upgrade. Willing to spend $300. Obviously am going to switch to dual-core. Don't think i can afford Pentium core2, so I will probably just go for the best AMD processor within my budget.

ABIT NF7-S motherboard - fairly good back then, but it is a bit dated. Plus the fan on it broke. Obviously needs changing when i upgrade CPU - but is it possible to go dual core and still retain all my old hardware (RAM and GFX)?

1GB Corsair XMSL - pretty decent still today, but it isn't DDR2. I want to keep this though, can I still use it on modern motherboards?
512MB Corsair Value Select - Should i even be using this? My mobo switched to dual channel. I'm not having any problems with lack of memory atm, but is it a bad idea to have these two incredibly different memory sticks operating together?

74GB WD Raptor - Not having any problems with this (i have an external drive for extra space). Got this several months ago. Does Vista take up much more room than XP? Can't really afford to throw in an extra HD anyhow.



So, anyone have advice as to what I Should be upgrading?
Are CPU And Mobo the right choice? OR is my GFX too outdated? Pity since i bought it for so much
Also, got any good cases to suggest? Something mid-range, not flash and purely functional... and of course QUIET and low maintenance!
Hoping to spend less than $600 AU... so yeah, I'm really looking for price efficiency!

 

[bash]

Also, just to add, I don't really want to overclock (warranty issues AND i'll probably stuff it up). Besides, i'm not convinced you squeeze that much extra performance out of the items.

 

[alcattle]

Do you have a preferred site to buy from, I think the AUD dollar is different due to tax or shipping between areas.
No problem scanning a store and picking stuff.

 

[nvalhalla]

Well, being in the states, I don't know what your costs would be or what the conversion rate is. The C2D E4300 OEM is ~100 US, with a Gigabyte 965P-ds3 you're looking at 200 US, plus cost of nice CPU cooler at ~25 US, or get a retail E4300 for 115 US and above MB for 215 US. Not too much more than an AM2 setup and leaves room for when you get the cojones to overclock. The RAM will have to go, sorry, but 2GB DDR2-800 can be bought for as low as 90 US. HDD will be fine, Vista is probably a gig or two larger, but that's not important. See what card you get and look at selling it if it is AGP, PCIe is the only way to go now. Cases I don't know, I just get the cheapest one I can find that will suit my needs, don't really care how it looks, it's what's on the screen that matters.

 

[nvalhalla]

Besides, i'm not convinced you squeeze that much extra performance out of the items.

That's classic! I might have to make that my sig... Doubling the speed of your CPU doesn't add much performance... Too funny...

 

[r0x0r]

www.staticice.com.au is your friend...ish. You might see some insanely low prices on there but they're usually only advertised to get you into the store so that the salespeople can say "we don't have that part at the moment but we have such and such".

Also you can mod your ugly drives for less than $20 so don't worry about a new case for now. Also the onboard sound should suffice with the new mobo, otherwise you can always get a Soundblaster for cheap.

Just had a look at staticice and found an Intel based system (as the XP 2800+ is quite old now and the mobo might not support new AMD CPU's). Did you REALLY want to buy an AMD system or are you willing to go Intel?

You should put aside (approximately):

$175 for Intel Core 2 Duo E4300
$150 for mobo
$150 for 2GB RAM (decent brands at 667Mhz).
$125 for Geforce 7600GS PCI-E 256MB

You should get some change from that, especially if you live on the eastern seaboard. The change might be enough for a better graphics card

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

 

[bash]

hehe njvalhalla, i'm a novice and don't dare overclock. i'm really worried about overheating and stuff - my building has no aircon and it can get very warm... plus i don't know too much about fans etc:/

thanks for the advice, i think i'll follow it up. waiting on that damn graphics card for now. so annoyed about the memory though i was hoping to use it on a system later, but didn't do my research ZZZ! should have bought a cheapo 1gig generic RAM, but instead splashed out and got good Corsair XMS line. suppose i will try and sell all the old parts and get some more cash for upgrading.

 

[bigblack]

You should put aside (approximately):

$175 for Intel Core 2 Duo E4300
$150 for mobo
$150 for 2GB RAM (decent brands at 667Mhz).
$125 for Geforce 7600GS PCI-E 256MB

Totally agree with r0x0r on everything, i just want to add an alternative.

You can save money on the mobo and keep part of your old ram if you buy an Asrock 4core VSTA mboard. It can hold both DDR1 and DDR2 (not at the same time!) and also both Pci express and AGP (at the same time for quadruple monitor setups). It can also be overclocked up to 300 Mhz turning the e4300 into an e 6700 at stock volts and cooler. Of course if you can spare the extra, go for a gigabyte 965-DS3 and the general idea of r0x0r's advice and forget about your old ram and X850. Good luck anyway
Just my two cents...

 

[r0x0r]

You can save money on the mobo and keep part of your old ram if you buy an Asrock 4core VSTA mboard. It can hold both DDR1 and DDR2 (not at the same time!) and also both Pci express and AGP (at the same time for quadruple monitor setups). It can also be overclocked up to 300 Mhz turning the e4300 into an e 6700 at stock volts and cooler. Of course if you can spare the extra, go for a gigabyte 965-DS3 and the general idea of r0x0r's advice and forget about your old ram and X850. Good luck anyway
Just my two cents...

Nice find on the motherboard! I'm not much of a mobo person so I always thought that mobo's were either PCI-E or AGP and they couldn't be both. Oh well, you learn something new every day.

That opens up the options quite a bit. I'm eager to see what you (Bash) actually get when your graphics card is returned. Then I'll be able to finalise a decision for you and see what you think.

In any case you can always use the old parts for a back-up PC or a HTPC.

Edit: grammar

 

[bigblack]

On board sound - I listen to music a lot, so if there is a really good sound card for under $100 that would be great. I only have 2.1 speakers though, so i suppose ther eis not much point? My mobo has fairly good on board sound anyhow.

No need to buy sound card, all new mobos have decent onboard chips.

Athlon XP 2800+ - This is the main component i want to upgrade. Willing to spend $300. Obviously am going to switch to dual-core. Don't think i can afford Pentium core2, so I will probably just go for the best AMD processor within my budget.

Of course you can afford C2D as r0x0r points out

ABIT NF7-S motherboard - fairly good back then, but it is a bit dated. Plus the fan on it broke. Obviously needs changing when i upgrade CPU - but is it possible to go dual core and still retain all my old hardware (RAM and GFX)?

Yes you can, see my suggestion for an Asrock mobo

1GB Corsair XMSL - pretty decent still today, but it isn't DDR2. I want to keep this though, can I still use it on modern motherboards?
512MB Corsair Value Select - Should i even be using this? My mobo switched to dual channel. I'm not having any problems with lack of memory atm, but is it a bad idea to have these two incredibly different memory sticks operating together?

There is no reason they shouldn't operate together in a new mobo if they were flawless with the NF7

74GB WD Raptor - Not having any problems with this (i have an external drive for extra space). Got this several months ago. Does Vista take up much more room than XP? Can't really afford to throw in an extra HD anyhow.

Why would anyone want to install Vista before service pack 2 is out? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are CPU And Mobo the right choice? OR is my GFX too outdated? Pity since i bought it for so much

Your GFX is a bit outdated, but i think you can't get anything significantly better for less than $300, so it would be a waste of money. Stay with whatever they return to you. Keep saving for a GFX upgrade in october or december, when prices will have settled and all the new models will have mature drivers, so you can really choose wisely.

Hoping to spend less than $600 AU... so yeah, I'm really looking for price efficiency!

After building hundreds of systems for all possible needs, i reached the conclusion that you have to buy something that you will use now, not six months later. Go for the cheapest alternative that still suits your needs of today and you will never lose money!

I hope that it helps...

@r0x0r
It is a finding, isn't it? It helped me upgrade from my NF7-S with minimum costs and it is rock solid, fast enough (3% slower than i965 solutions) and dirt cheap. Not many overclocking options though, but still enough to make the e4300 fly!
Cheers

 

[r0x0r]

@r0x0r
It is a finding, isn't it? It helped me upgrade from my NF7-S with minimum costs and it is rock solid, fast enough (3% slower than i965 solutions) and dirt cheap. Not many overclocking options though, but still enough to make the e4300 fly!

Just checked the price of it on staticice/ozdirect.com.au (yeah I'm lazy, I know :lol: ); AU$85! 8O Shipping should be about $AU15, so that's $100 there.

He he now we've got another $50 to spend; even more if Bash doesn't want to buy new RAM. Now we can step up to an E6300 ($200-$225), and/or an X1950Pro ($225-$250).

This is what I love about the ultra-budget building threads; you ususally get the best returns because you have to look harder. If Bash manages to get an E6300 and an X1950Pro he'll be laughing.

Hurry up and get that video card back Bash!

 

[bigblack]

Hi! I'm very glad to see that you continue to be interested in this little upgrade adventure. It's the same spirit that made me spend many, many months of my life considering options for new systems or upgrades for my friends or for my customers. It is after all a genuine challenge and pleasure to plan and build good rigs, tailored to meet the needs and the pockets of different people.

Now, for the upgrade path, i'm afraid an e6300 would not be the best move. You see, e6300 has an fsb of 266Mhz instead of the 200Mhz that e4300 and e4400 have. The asrock mboard is capable of overclocking up to ~ 300Mhz fsb, so the maximum overclock for an e6300 would be 7X300=2100Mhz, lower than that of an e4300 9X300= 2700Mhz. An e4400 would be perfect as a choice because it would reach the e6700's frequency without raising the fsb more than 266Mhz (10X266=2660) and without extra cooling.

So that's one decision, the other would be to go price hunting for an even better GFX, maybe an 8800GTS? I don't have a clue about Australian prices, so you would be better suited to help Bash with that. On the other hand, what if he operated for a few days with whatever GFX card he gets from the warranty process? Prices are bound to fall even lower when ATI stabilizes their drivers, especially for the 8800GTS which seems to be the direct competitor for a 2900. After all, if Bash has a new operating rig he could play Oblivion better than before and be happy for a little while, waiting to get a new card when the price seems right.

What do you think?

And where is Bash? We've been busting our @sses here!

 

[r0x0r]

Thanks for the heads up re E6300.

Card prices as of time of writing on staticice.com.au:

8800GTS 320: $380+. A bit too rich.
8600GTS: $250+
7900GS: $200+
7600GT: $130+
7600GS: $100+
X1950Pro: $220+

Also...

E4400 is about $180 to $200
E4300 is about $150 to $170

I'm still waiting to see if what Bush gets when his card is finally returned.

P.S. WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU BASH! :lol:

Edit: spelling

 

[r0x0r]

The Asrock VSTA AMD version was only $10 less. The 3600+ is $100 though...

Hmm...

What is the performance difference between the 3600+ and the E4300?

 

[bigblack]

You have a point there but i think you are missing a couple of things:

a) The guy we are trying to help (Bash) wants to use his old DDR memory and if possible to use for the time being his X850PRO AGP card. Do you know of any AM2 mobo that offers DDR1 + DDR2 support plus both AGP and PCI express?

b) The other thing we have to consider is that Bash doesn't really want to overclock. So messing with voltage regulation and after market coolers would be rather problematic for him (i think). An e4300 overclocks @2400 without any voltage adjustment or extra cooling, so it is a bargain at it's present price point, especially if you consider point a). The extra cost would be in the states around $55 ($59.99 for the mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107
and $114.50 for the e4300 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013)

Of course anyone who builds from scratch, is on a tight budget and only wants to play games, should seriously consider the solution you are proposing, with the addition of the best GFX card that can fit in his budget.

 

[bigblack]

From personal experience, you have to buy good after market cooler and reach around 3.0 Ghz from 1.9 Ghz stock (if the specific cpu permits it) in order to have roughly the equivalent of an e6400. Consider the cost of a good aftermarket cooler AND a good mobo with plenty of overclocking settings. You don't need any more data to decide.
Cheers!

Edit: I can't recall of any AMD Asrock mobo to support AGP + PCI express plus DDR1 and DDR2. Please correct me if i am wrong Of course there might be another brand mobo, haven't searched though...

 

[bigblack]

8800GTS 320: $380+. A bit too rich.
8600GTS: $250+
7900GS: $200+
7600GT: $130+
7600GS: $100+
X1950Pro: $220+

Also...

E4400 is about $180 to $200
E4300 is about $150 to $170

So it would be $380 for 8800GTS + $160 for e4300 + $85 for the mobo=$625+shipping. Not bad at all. Good work r0x0r!

P.S. WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU BASH! :lol:

He drank the money and is too ashamed to appear :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[bigblack]

Bash, i hadn't seen your case and power supply until now. I just realized that you probably need a decent power supply and a simplistic case as you put it more than a new Gfx card. I' sorry man, i didn't check thoroughly from the start
Anyway, fingers crossed for the replacement card. Will you have it soon?

P.S. if you really drunk the money, don't be ashamed. We have all been there

 

[r0x0r]

Bash, i hadn't seen your case and power supply until now. I just realized that you probably need a decent power supply and a simplistic case as you put it more than a new Gfx card. I' sorry man, i didn't check thoroughly from the start
Anyway, fingers crossed for the replacement card. Will you have it soon?

P.S. if you really drunk the money, don't be ashamed. We have all been there

The PSU is taken care of:

case/low-average 500W EZCool PSU

That should easily handle any of the cards I proposed.

As we saw on the TH system builder marathon day 4 a great card with an average CPU will still pull some excellent framerates. If Bash can get more cash :roll: the the 8800GTS320 might work out. Then he won't have to touch the GPU for 2 years at least (I'm assuming he runs at 1280x1024 maximum).

Perhaps he can confirm this for us *HINT!* *HINT!* :lol:

 

[bigblack]

Check out the psu
http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/power-supply-500w-super-silent-ezcool/

And i quote from whirlpool.net.au

"Yura writes...
What do you think of EZcool 500W power supply, it's only $60AUD

Have a read of forum-replies.cfm?t=462252 - basically it's a load of garbage."

and the link this guy refers to

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=462252

and i quote again from the same forum:
"The rails on the EzCool 500w just suck, the fluctuate like no tomorrow, and dont let the cable sleeving on the PSU fool you, its just a generic PSU in a box with sleeved cables, thats it.

IMO its worth $20 - ie it falls in the generic POS pile."

So i don't know r0x0r, maybe we will get him into trouble (stability issues) if he doesn't have a decent PSU.
But the main issue is that he doesn't reply so all our good will is useless

Have a good time r0x0r. See you around mate!

 

[r0x0r]

So no 8800GTS; Bash needs a new PSU.

X1950Pro it is then. Maybe he can get another gig of RAM with the change as well.

I assume Bash is waiting for his card to return before he posts again. Knowing how long things take to get done in Australia, that could be next year. :lol:

Edit: spelling

 

[chungdokwan]

check out this site for prices when youve decicded http://www.gamedude.com.au/

 

[chungdokwan]

my kitty says dont payout australia or your kitty gets eaten