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What is best HDTV set for longevity

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December 23, 2004 11:31:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and holds the
quality of its picture the best?

I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or wait
for better availability on LCoS.

Thoughts?

More about : hdtv set longevity

Anonymous
December 23, 2004 11:31:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:1ovyd.831$uN2.246383@monger.newsread.com...
> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and holds the
> quality of its picture the best?
>
> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or wait
> for better availability on LCoS.

I would recommend looking into the Direct-Drive Image Light Amplifier
(D-ILA) technology. As far as I am aware, only JVC is selling it now, but
I'm sure others will follow. It's a form of LCoS, and in my opinion holds
promise of being better than all other technologies. But it's also new,
being in people's homes only about 6 months, so if you're not in a hurry it
may be wise to wait for the bugs to be sorted out and the price to drop.

Myself, I have my eye on the HD-52Z795 (52-inch with built-in HD tuner).
It's not in stores yet in Eastern Ontario, the last I checked.
December 23, 2004 11:31:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

CJ wrote:
> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
holds the
> quality of its picture the best?
>
> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or
wait
> for better availability on LCoS.
>
> Thoughts?

Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time use.
Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are designed so
that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and crisp
as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and DLP
projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you have
the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or so
(5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.

Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would come
next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned on,
so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set is
still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen burn-in,
which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can not
be repaired).

-Jeremy

HDTV Buyers FAQ:
http://hdtv.0catch.com
The HDTV Blog (latest HDTV headlines)
http://thdblog.blogspot.com/
Related resources
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 9:59:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

jeremy@pdq.net wrote in news:1103819167.951069.33170
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

>
> CJ wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
> holds the
>> quality of its picture the best?
>>
>> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or
> wait
>> for better availability on LCoS.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time use.
> Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are designed so
> that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and crisp
> as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and DLP
> projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you have
> the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or so
> (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
>
> Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would come
> next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned on,
> so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set is
> still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen burn-in,
> which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can not
> be repaired).=

Direct view tubes rarely burn in rapidly if they are operated at
reasonable contrast and brightness levels. And, they are cheaper, being
proven technology.

Still, I'm watching LCoS....



--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 5:33:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:59:13 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:

>jeremy@pdq.net wrote in news:1103819167.951069.33170
>@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> CJ wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
>> holds the
>>> quality of its picture the best?
>>>
>>> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or
>> wait
>>> for better availability on LCoS.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time use.
>> Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are designed so
>> that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and crisp
>> as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and DLP
>> projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you have
>> the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or so
>> (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
>>
>> Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would come
>> next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned on,
>> so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set is
>> still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen burn-in,
>> which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can not
>> be repaired).=
>
>Direct view tubes rarely burn in rapidly if they are operated at
>reasonable contrast and brightness levels. And, they are cheaper, being
>proven technology.
>
>Still, I'm watching LCoS....

Correct, direct view seems to last longer. I have seen two Sony
Trinitron sets and one older Zenith set go for 14 years with daily
use. These were not HDTV sets. All three sets were 27" consoles.
One set was mine and after 14 years one day it would not light up.
A low voltage failure so I gave it to a Sony TV repairman. The other
Sony had 3 owners. My parents, then me and I sold it to my best
friend. His kids were raised watching that same TV.

With new advancements of emitting electrons and the brighter phosphors
in the CRT. You don't have to drive the brightness near as high for a
bright clear picture. Less stress on the tube should help it last
longer.

I would say that Sony probably makes the best direct view CRT due to
their long experience in the industry.

The Sony fine pitch direct view TV has the best picture I have seen.
It's only available in a 30" or 34" size. Viewing distance from about
5 ' to 8'. The 34" weights in at 198 lbs. I bought a nice after
market TV stand made for heavy sets from the Walmart site.

This set is well worth looking into, check reviews for model
KD-34XBR960. Sony and others may offer free shipping.
Check for any rebates. I never could find this set on display.
I bought it from the sony site anyway.

hdtvfan
December 24, 2004 7:47:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

My parents have an old (1976) 19" MGA (Mitsubishi) they still use daily
(nearly all day every day). My father says it's the best television he has
ever owned.
Craig

.......................
> Correct, direct view seems to last longer. I have seen two Sony
> Trinitron sets and one older Zenith set go for 14 years with daily
..................
December 24, 2004 12:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I just love broad generalities...
I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting out a
great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable. No LCD,
no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work like a
champ and with no burn-in, I might add.

Less pontificating, please.



<jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:1103819167.951069.33170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> CJ wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
> holds the
>> quality of its picture the best?
>>
>> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or
> wait
>> for better availability on LCoS.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time use.
> Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are designed so
> that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and crisp
> as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and DLP
> projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you have
> the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or so
> (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
>
> Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would come
> next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned on,
> so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set is
> still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen burn-in,
> which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can not
> be repaired).
>
> -Jeremy
>
> HDTV Buyers FAQ:
> http://hdtv.0catch.com
> The HDTV Blog (latest HDTV headlines)
> http://thdblog.blogspot.com/
>
December 24, 2004 6:33:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

curmudgeon wrote:
> I just love broad generalities...
> I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting
out a
> great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable.
No LCD,
> no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work
like a
> champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
>
> Less pontificating, please.
>
>

I'm glad your set(s) are still working great and that you are still
satisfied with the picture quality. My comments weren't "broad
generalities...", however they are relitive to how much use a CRT set
gets. Many people don't watch all that much television. CRT DirectView,
rear projection and Plasma sets come off the assembly line with a
limited lifespan. Over time they picture wears because the phospher gas
burns. Talk to any service tech about this techology and they will tell
you the same thing. Call the manufactures. This is not big secret and
it takes a mild understanding of how CRT technology works to grasp
this.

What is up for debate is the amount of years you can get out of a set,
and this does vary depending, not only a use but also on brand as some
makers (e.g. Hitachi) double or tripple coat the CRT guns to give the
set longer life. On average, watching a CRT rear-projection or
DirectView set eight hours a day (every day) after ten years the set
will burn at approx 50% contrast when it was new. If you only watch 4
hours of TV or less, you're going to be at 50% in 20 years. Many people
only watch 2-3 hours of television a day so they may get 30 years out a
set.

In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.

My first post was a bit general so I'm happy to have cleared this up. I
would encourage anyone reading this thread who may doubt some of this
information to call a few service techs and ask them to confirm. I
think it's important to understand the limits of technology and to not
to form expectations around the experience of others. There are too
many variables at play for any one persons experience to hold much
weight, you really have to understand the technology.

-Jeremy



>
> <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
> news:1103819167.951069.33170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > CJ wrote:
> >> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
> > holds the
> >> quality of its picture the best?
> >>
> >> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection
or
> > wait
> >> for better availability on LCoS.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >
> > Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time
use.
> > Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are
designed so
> > that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and
crisp
> > as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and
DLP
> > projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you
have
> > the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or
so
> > (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
> >
> > Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would
come
> > next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned
on,
> > so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set
is
> > still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen
burn-in,
> > which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can
not
> > be repaired).
> >
> > -Jeremy
> >
> > HDTV Buyers FAQ:
> > http://hdtv.0catch.com
> > The HDTV Blog (latest HDTV headlines)
> > http://thdblog.blogspot.com/
> >
December 24, 2004 8:06:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:KyVyd.3640$5y3.2505@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>I just love broad generalities...
> I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting out a
> great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable. No
> LCD, no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work
> like a champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
>
> Less pontificating, please.

Sure, there is no beating longevity of older television sets, but yours
isn't an HDTV set though.

I still have a Sony 1986 TV that looks as good as the day I got it....too
bad I can't find the right HDTV with the same kind of longevity.


>
>
>
> <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
> news:1103819167.951069.33170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> CJ wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
>> holds the
>>> quality of its picture the best?
>>>
>>> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection or
>> wait
>>> for better availability on LCoS.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time use.
>> Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are designed so
>> that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and crisp
>> as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and DLP
>> projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you have
>> the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or so
>> (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
>>
>> Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would come
>> next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned on,
>> so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set is
>> still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen burn-in,
>> which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can not
>> be repaired).
>>
>> -Jeremy
>>
>> HDTV Buyers FAQ:
>> http://hdtv.0catch.com
>> The HDTV Blog (latest HDTV headlines)
>> http://thdblog.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 9:04:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>From a practical standpoint, the useful life of an HDTV depends on many
things, only one of which is the display technology. Even with a
display technology like plasma, you can typically get 17+ yrs out of
the display, watching it 4 hours a day. I would think for most of us,
at that point, which particular display technology lasts longer becomes
a moot point. When you factor in that other things can fail too, like
a circuit board that's expensive to replace and will lead to the set
being scrapped, or the evolution in technology offering better devices
at lower cost in the future, I don't see the type of display technology
being a major issue for consumers.
December 25, 2004 9:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> curmudgeon wrote:
> > I just love broad generalities...
> > I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting
> out a great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable.
> No LCD, no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work
> like a champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
> >
> > Less pontificating, please.
> >
On 24-Dec-2004, jeremy@pdq.net wrote:
>
> I'm glad your set(s) are still working great and that you are still
> satisfied with the picture quality. My comments weren't "broad
> generalities...", however they are relitive to how much use a CRT set
> gets. Many people don't watch all that much television. CRT DirectView,
> rear projection and Plasma sets come off the assembly line with a
> limited lifespan. Over time they picture wears because the phospher gas
> burns. Talk to any service tech about this techology and they will tell
> you the same thing. Call the manufactures. This is not big secret and
> it takes a mild understanding of how CRT technology works to grasp
> this.
>
> What is up for debate is the amount of years you can get out of a set,
> and this does vary depending, not only a use but also on brand as some
> makers (e.g. Hitachi) double or tripple coat the CRT guns to give the
> set longer life. On average, watching a CRT rear-projection or
> DirectView set eight hours a day (every day) after ten years the set
> will burn at approx 50% contrast when it was new. If you only watch 4
> hours of TV or less, you're going to be at 50% in 20 years. Many people
> only watch 2-3 hours of television a day so they may get 30 years out a
> set.
>
> In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
> an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
> does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.
>
> My first post was a bit general so I'm happy to have cleared this up. I
> would encourage anyone reading this thread who may doubt some of this
> information to call a few service techs and ask them to confirm. I
> think it's important to understand the limits of technology and to not
> to form expectations around the experience of others. There are too
> many variables at play for any one persons experience to hold much
> weight, you really have to understand the technology.
>
> -Jeremy
>
Sorry, but learning from the sharing of the experiences of others is what
this group and much of life is all about.

We do not all have the opportunity to become experts in electronics as you
feel you are.

So I suppose most of us should accept the fact that we are simply not able
to make a wise choice in buying a TV that will last a long time.

All I know is that I bought a 31" Hitachi for our living room in 1991 on the
basis of price and it has been going 10-12 hours a day ever since.

It still has an excellent picture and quality sound. It has never been
serviced by anyone for any reason.

So when I bought a 51" HD RPTV for our family room two years ago I chose
another Hitachi on the basis of my experience.

Perhaps I could have done better both times had I known more about the
things you mention in your post.

So now I am stuck with two expensive televisons that suit my needs perfectly
and may well be around when I depart this life.

Oh well, that's what happens to folks like me who don't understand the finer
points of how a TV works!
--
John in Sun Prairie
December 25, 2004 5:39:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Dave, I was hard pressed to decide between the JVC D-ILA set I saw at Best
Buy and a Mitsubishi DLP when a relative wanted to get a good TV, but I
recommended the Mits. 52725 (Best Buy only sells the 52525 so we went to
Tweeters for the more advanced 725) which she bought for $3600 plus $300 for
a matching stand. Picture on both is superb. Agreed the bulb on the DLP has
to be changed after 5000 hours, I wonder what the weakness on the D-ILA is
going to be.
Roger
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 5:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Roger" <nospam@world.com> wrote in message
news:eYezd.1171$NH2.175532@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Dave, I was hard pressed to decide between the JVC D-ILA set I saw at Best
> Buy and a Mitsubishi DLP when a relative wanted to get a good TV, but I
> recommended the Mits. 52725 (Best Buy only sells the 52525 so we went to
> Tweeters for the more advanced 725) which she bought for $3600 plus $300
> for a matching stand. Picture on both is superb. Agreed the bulb on the
> DLP has to be changed after 5000 hours, I wonder what the weakness on the
> D-ILA is going to be.

Fair enough. As I admitted, the ILA is new on the home market. However, it
has a much longer track record on such things as huge simulators for serious
training of pilots, soldiers etc, as well as stadium and other commercial
displays.

I was responding to the original poster's question about long-term
reliability, which includes more than just periodic bulb replacement. I note
that JVC in their sales literature for the ILA claims no convergence
problems, which impresses me since convergence issues are often mentioned on
forums. But you are quite right that we cannot be sure that ILA home sets
will not develop unforeseen problems. Technology is always interesting.

Cheers
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 8:19:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In <1103931207.873319.100870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> jeremy@pdq.
net wrote:
>
> In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
> an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
> does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.

possible color degradation in lcd
http://www.avvideo.com/2003/04_apr/features/long_live_d...
granted, the source may be biased toward dlp, but still worth taking
into consideration
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 8:19:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Michael Lankton" <mlankton@spymac.com> wrote in message
news:20041225111924657-0600@netnews.mchsi.com...
> In <1103931207.873319.100870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> jeremy@pdq.
> net wrote:
> >
> > In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> > have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
> > an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
> > does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.
>
> possible color degradation in lcd
> http://www.avvideo.com/2003/04_apr/features/long_live_d...
> granted, the source may be biased toward dlp, but still worth taking
> into consideration

You have to read thoroughly to get the context of the failures, which is
24/7 operation. Those of us who have serviced LCD projectors for a while
have seen it many times. Heat is the enemy of LCD panels and filters.
Actually, the problems with the filters would be the same for a three chip
DLP or LCOS system. The color wheels on DLP may also eventually degrade,
since they are filters as well, but the duration of exposure is much less
than with a three chip system where the exposure is constant. Use in a home
setting where you don't run 24/7, and with better cooling present on most
RPTV applications, should see much lower incidence of LCD failures of this
nature. The possibility is still there, however.

Leonard
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 9:17:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, John <L230j@charter.net> wrote:

> Sorry, but learning from the sharing of the experiences of others is what
> this group and much of life is all about.

> We do not all have the opportunity to become experts in electronics as you
> feel you are.

> So I suppose most of us should accept the fact that we are simply not able
> to make a wise choice in buying a TV that will last a long time.

No way. You can make a wiser choice today then ever before in history.
You have access to increasing amounts of information. There is more
available to you, in increasingly organized and edited formats, every
single moment of every single day.

For example, Jeremy posted some very valuable information, exactly on
point to your current inquiry.
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 9:18:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Good stuff, Jeremy. I'll look forward to reading your posts in the
future.




In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, jeremy@pdq.net wrote:

> curmudgeon wrote:
> > I just love broad generalities...
> > I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting
> out a
> > great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable.
> No LCD,
> > no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work
> like a
> > champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
> >
> > Less pontificating, please.
> >
> >

> I'm glad your set(s) are still working great and that you are still
> satisfied with the picture quality. My comments weren't "broad
> generalities...", however they are relitive to how much use a CRT set
> gets. Many people don't watch all that much television. CRT DirectView,
> rear projection and Plasma sets come off the assembly line with a
> limited lifespan. Over time they picture wears because the phospher gas
> burns. Talk to any service tech about this techology and they will tell
> you the same thing. Call the manufactures. This is not big secret and
> it takes a mild understanding of how CRT technology works to grasp
> this.

> What is up for debate is the amount of years you can get out of a set,
> and this does vary depending, not only a use but also on brand as some
> makers (e.g. Hitachi) double or tripple coat the CRT guns to give the
> set longer life. On average, watching a CRT rear-projection or
> DirectView set eight hours a day (every day) after ten years the set
> will burn at approx 50% contrast when it was new. If you only watch 4
> hours of TV or less, you're going to be at 50% in 20 years. Many people
> only watch 2-3 hours of television a day so they may get 30 years out a
> set.

> In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
> an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
> does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.

> My first post was a bit general so I'm happy to have cleared this up. I
> would encourage anyone reading this thread who may doubt some of this
> information to call a few service techs and ask them to confirm. I
> think it's important to understand the limits of technology and to not
> to form expectations around the experience of others. There are too
> many variables at play for any one persons experience to hold much
> weight, you really have to understand the technology.

> -Jeremy



> >
> > <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
> > news:1103819167.951069.33170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > CJ wrote:
> > >> Can anyone tell me which type of HDTV has the best longevity and
> > > holds the
> > >> quality of its picture the best?
> > >>
> > >> I've heard that I should stick with a regular HDTV 1080 projection
> or
> > > wait
> > >> for better availability on LCoS.
> > >>
> > >> Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Long term, LCD or LCoS, both of those are designed to life-time
> use.
> > > Sometimes products do break, but those two technologies are
> designed so
> > > that in twenty years from now the display should be as bright and
> crisp
> > > as the day you bought it with little or no maintence cost. DLP and
> DLP
> > > projectors are probably second in line, with DLP technology you
> have
> > > the added maintence cost of changing out a bulb ever 5000 hours or
> so
> > > (5-7 years of use for most). That's $500 maintence cost.
> > >
> > > Plasma, CRT (DirectView/tube) and CRT rear projections sets would
> come
> > > next in line, these sets burn phospher every time they are turned
> on,
> > > so over time they wear and in ten years you'll be lucky if the set
> is
> > > still watchable. These technologies are also prone to screen
> burn-in,
> > > which pretty much destroys the set (on Plasmas especially, this can
> not
> > > be repaired).
> > >
> > > -Jeremy
> > >
> > > HDTV Buyers FAQ:
> > > http://hdtv.0catch.com
> > > The HDTV Blog (latest HDTV headlines)
> > > http://thdblog.blogspot.com/
> > >


--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 6:18:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:21:42 -0500, "curmudgeon"
<curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote:

>I just love broad generalities...
>I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting out a
>great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable. No LCD,
>no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still work like a
>champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
>
>Less pontificating, please.


Don't forget to adjust your opinion based on the 20+ year "burn in"
effects. I'm referring to your eyes, not your set!
December 27, 2004 9:42:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"John" <L230j@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9%7zd.6236$hc7.3186@trnddc06...
>
>> curmudgeon wrote:
>> > I just love broad generalities...
>> > I guess my 1984 46" RCA rear projection shouldn't still be putting
>> out a great picture, since by your rules it should not even be watchable.
>> No LCD, no lcos, no dila, no DLP...just 3 good old CRT's which still
>> work
>> like a champ and with no burn-in, I might add.
>> >
>> > Less pontificating, please.
>> >
> On 24-Dec-2004, jeremy@pdq.net wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad your set(s) are still working great and that you are still
>> satisfied with the picture quality. My comments weren't "broad
>> generalities...", however they are relitive to how much use a CRT set
>> gets. Many people don't watch all that much television. CRT DirectView,
>> rear projection and Plasma sets come off the assembly line with a
>> limited lifespan. Over time they picture wears because the phospher gas
>> burns. Talk to any service tech about this techology and they will tell
>> you the same thing. Call the manufactures. This is not big secret and
>> it takes a mild understanding of how CRT technology works to grasp
>> this.
>>
>> What is up for debate is the amount of years you can get out of a set,
>> and this does vary depending, not only a use but also on brand as some
>> makers (e.g. Hitachi) double or tripple coat the CRT guns to give the
>> set longer life. On average, watching a CRT rear-projection or
>> DirectView set eight hours a day (every day) after ten years the set
>> will burn at approx 50% contrast when it was new. If you only watch 4
>> hours of TV or less, you're going to be at 50% in 20 years. Many people
>> only watch 2-3 hours of television a day so they may get 30 years out a
>> set.
>>
>> In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
>> have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
>> an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
>> does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.
>>
>> My first post was a bit general so I'm happy to have cleared this up. I
>> would encourage anyone reading this thread who may doubt some of this
>> information to call a few service techs and ask them to confirm. I
>> think it's important to understand the limits of technology and to not
>> to form expectations around the experience of others. There are too
>> many variables at play for any one persons experience to hold much
>> weight, you really have to understand the technology.
>>
>> -Jeremy
>>
> Sorry, but learning from the sharing of the experiences of others is what
> this group and much of life is all about.
>
> We do not all have the opportunity to become experts in electronics as you
> feel you are.
>
> So I suppose most of us should accept the fact that we are simply not able
> to make a wise choice in buying a TV that will last a long time.

Hold up...show me where he talked down to anyone or insulted them like the
person he was replying to did.

He is merely stating some facts/opinions and he did it in a polite way.

So I don't understand why you and curm are jumping his case.
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 6:15:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ALL projection TV's use a light bulb (or CRT) that eventually will have to
be replaced. Cost is the same for LCD, DLP, DILA, LCOS and whatever else may
be invented down the road. It's a high profit margin item, so prices can
vary a lot. It's a design feature of how long the lamp will live. Some are
only good for 2000 hours, some are good for 5000 hours. Some products offer
an economy mode that has to be used to get the advertised lamp life.
LCD panels in rear projection TV's will deteriorate over time. I have had
24/7 applications where it happened in three months. Future will tell how
long the LCD projection TV's will make it. My guess is that there will be a
visual difference after about five years. DLP's should not deteriorate.


"Roger" <nospam@world.com> wrote in message
news:eYezd.1171$NH2.175532@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Dave, I was hard pressed to decide between the JVC D-ILA set I saw at Best
> Buy and a Mitsubishi DLP when a relative wanted to get a good TV, but I
> recommended the Mits. 52725 (Best Buy only sells the 52525 so we went to
> Tweeters for the more advanced 725) which she bought for $3600 plus $300
> for a matching stand. Picture on both is superb. Agreed the bulb on the
> DLP has to be changed after 5000 hours, I wonder what the weakness on the
> D-ILA is going to be.
> Roger
>
December 27, 2004 6:15:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Hasenpfeffer" <hasenpfeffer@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lGVzd.3270$aM4.635214@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> LCD panels in rear projection TV's will deteriorate over time. I have had
> 24/7 applications where it happened in three months. Future will tell how
> long the LCD projection TV's will make it. My guess is that there will be
> a visual difference after about five years.

Whatabout flat-panel lcd's?
December 28, 2004 9:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, John <L230j@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but learning from the sharing of the experiences of others is
> > what
> > this group and much of life is all about.
>
> > We do not all have the opportunity to become experts in electronics as
> > you feel you are.
>
> > So I suppose most of us should accept the fact that we are simply not
> > able to make a wise choice in buying a TV that will last a long time.
>
On 25-Dec-2004, EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

> No way. You can make a wiser choice today then ever before in history.
> You have access to increasing amounts of information. There is more
> available to you, in increasingly organized and edited formats, every
> single moment of every single day.

You missed the point of my post which was in response to an elaborate post
by someone who seemed to feel that listening to the experiences of friends
and others who lack his kind of expertise is a mistake.

Following his line of reasoning would mean that if we are not as
knowledgeable as he claims to be, or have no access to someone who is, we
are not able to make wise choices regarding an HDTV. Then he went on to
suggest that listening to friends and others is a mistake.

The final sentence was a tongue-in-cheek summary of what he seems to be
saying.

I agree with you that there is plenty of information available to enable
anyone to choose a good HDTV that meets their needs. I also believe that the
experiences of our friends and others (such as most folks who participate in
this group) can be extremely useful to us.

The reality is that one must carefully evaluate the experiences of anyone
including those of self-appointed experts whose recommendations are often no
better than what our friends tell us.

In my opinion, almost anyone willing to devote the time and thought that
should be given to any major purchase can learn what they need to know and
then choose wisely a good HDTV.

--
John in Sun Prairie
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 7:15:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Yes, flat panel LCD's use a lamp also. The life span is longer than the
common metal halide lamps used in projection TV's. I am not sure what the
life span is, most likely it depends on the make and model. I know that the
lamps in the commercial Sharp LCD panels are replaceable, but I don't know
about others. The life span in the Sharp LC-M3700 is 60,000 hrs., that's a
long time.

"Marcus" <marcus153@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b768F3tbgjnU1@individual.net...
>
> "Hasenpfeffer" <hasenpfeffer@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:lGVzd.3270$aM4.635214@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>>> LCD panels in rear projection TV's will deteriorate over time. I have
>>> had
>> 24/7 applications where it happened in three months. Future will tell how
>> long the LCD projection TV's will make it. My guess is that there will be
>> a visual difference after about five years.
>
> Whatabout flat-panel lcd's?
>
>
December 31, 2004 1:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <Pthzd.10216$jn.9265@lakeread06>, no@no.com says...
>
> "Michael Lankton" <mlankton@spymac.com> wrote in message
> news:20041225111924657-0600@netnews.mchsi.com...
> > In <1103931207.873319.100870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> jeremy@pdq.
> > net wrote:
> > >
> > > In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> > > have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of use,
> > > an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road it
> > > does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.
> >
> > possible color degradation in lcd
> > http://www.avvideo.com/2003/04_apr/features/long_live_d...
> > granted, the source may be biased toward dlp, but still worth taking
> > into consideration
>
> You have to read thoroughly to get the context of the failures, which is
> 24/7 operation. Those of us who have serviced LCD projectors for a while
> have seen it many times. Heat is the enemy of LCD panels and filters.
> Actually, the problems with the filters would be the same for a three chip
> DLP or LCOS system. The color wheels on DLP may also eventually degrade,
> since they are filters as well, but the duration of exposure is much less
> than with a three chip system where the exposure is constant. Use in a home
> setting where you don't run 24/7, and with better cooling present on most
> RPTV applications, should see much lower incidence of LCD failures of this
> nature. The possibility is still there, however.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if the color wheel in a DLP did
degrade it would be comparatively easy to fix vis-a-vis equivalent
degradation in an LCD??
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 9:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c3ecce9a7a356c0989970@shawnews...
> In article <Pthzd.10216$jn.9265@lakeread06>, no@no.com says...
> >
> > "Michael Lankton" <mlankton@spymac.com> wrote in message
> > news:20041225111924657-0600@netnews.mchsi.com...
> > > In <1103931207.873319.100870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> jeremy@pdq.
> > > net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In contrast LCD and LcOS do not burn phospher so these technologies
> > > > have no life expectancy at all. Regardless of how many of hours of
use,
> > > > an LCD display should burn at 100% 10, 20 or 30 years down the road
it
> > > > does not degrade by design as CRT and Plasma does.
> > >
> > > possible color degradation in lcd
> > > http://www.avvideo.com/2003/04_apr/features/long_live_d...
> > > granted, the source may be biased toward dlp, but still worth taking
> > > into consideration
> >
> > You have to read thoroughly to get the context of the failures, which is
> > 24/7 operation. Those of us who have serviced LCD projectors for a
while
> > have seen it many times. Heat is the enemy of LCD panels and filters.
> > Actually, the problems with the filters would be the same for a three
chip
> > DLP or LCOS system. The color wheels on DLP may also eventually
degrade,
> > since they are filters as well, but the duration of exposure is much
less
> > than with a three chip system where the exposure is constant. Use in a
home
> > setting where you don't run 24/7, and with better cooling present on
most
> > RPTV applications, should see much lower incidence of LCD failures of
this
> > nature. The possibility is still there, however.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if the color wheel in a DLP did
> degrade it would be comparatively easy to fix vis-a-vis equivalent
> degradation in an LCD??

Last time I checked, Hitachi and Sony were only selling the complete light
engines for the LCD and DLP units and you could not buy a color wheel or a
single panel. This makes the repair of either about the same...very
expensive. Eventually, they will either likely supply the parts to repair
them or offer rebuilt light engines at a lower price. If that ever happens
you would be correct. A color wheel and motor should be a fraction of the
cost of a panel. The last LCD panel that I bought for a Sharp projector had
a dealer cost of over $700.

Leonard
!