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SOLID STATE HARD DRIVE FOR NEW BUILD

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May 14, 2007 5:47:58 PM

Hi am considering a 30gig solid state samsung hd for a new build dedicated to video editing. ( Some Games ). I already have a new 150gig 10,000 rpm Raptor about 6 months old. Can not determine if its sata 2. No response from WD. I was thinking of the samsung spinpoint 500gig hd but read about SSD hard drives and using existing xp os. But Vista it states can take advantage of the new SSD drives using powerboost. Plus the HD is cooler, Faster & no moving parts. Am wondering the best set up for new system build . Using the SSD for the o/s & page file only. The Raptor for video work & a High capacity HD for project storage. I have not decided on a motherboard or on Dual or Quad core either . Would like 64 bit -but the latest Pinnacle editing software is dissapointing as they have no plans for 64bit.
Any pointers ? Advice. My 2 current systems are P4's 2.8mhz 2gig 400mhz ram using win xp. These systems have taken up to 8 hours to render a project. I need to slash that time. Is it just me , manufacturers Like Thermaltake, Western Digital just don't seem to reply to tech Questions.
Thanks Harvey5
May 14, 2007 6:13:14 PM

I think the money would be much better spent on a new cpu.

link
May 14, 2007 6:32:35 PM

...or perhaps a new keyboard??

You need a whole system. Depending on what software you use, a quad core CPU might be worth it.
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May 14, 2007 6:44:25 PM

Raptors are not SATA 2. SATA 2 only gives more burst speed, so its no big deal anyway.

SSD drives are for access time improvement only. They are terrible for sustained read/write speeds. (SSDs do 30MB/s vs. 80MB/s for many of today's mechanical drives) Not good for video at all. Keep the Raptor.

Rendering is all about the CPU. Assuming your video encoder is a multithreaded app, a higher end C2D could probably cut that time in half and a Quad would be even faster.
May 14, 2007 9:08:44 PM

Hey thanks for all quick replys. Hoping I can use my existing keyboards cases but will have to upgrade everything else even go for Vista. Thanks for link Neokill3r. Strange the comparison for using a P4 with Pinnacle 9 software against core 2 Duo & quad. The Duo performs slightly better.
The SSD hype from Samsung implies this is the future of hard drives. The read times surprised me as I thought SSD was still faster as there is no actuator latency on a spinning platter. They emphasise the boot up time being at least 50% Faster also. I realised a better CPU is key, Duo or quad -It seems quad is slower for certain apps ?. Either way far better than my P4 2.8's.
So the rapter is not much faster than a samsung spinpoint 500gb HD which is sata2. The rapter could be for the O/S only . If I save money by using existing XP pro o/s which is still in the box. I wont see much difference for video editing against Vista -I will be doing new video material In HD after June.
If I go down the road of water cooling I'm having a lot of trouble trying to get the facts /comparisons on the coolest/ most efficient. I'm looking at better cases such as the Tia chi with built in water cooling / This case had a bad review from Custom Pc. Mainly because of size & a big waste of aluminium. But that appealed to me.It did say the doors were air blockers, but then air is drawn in from the floor also.
Sorry about too many questions - A new build is expensive and dont plan on any more for a long time. Is it right the ram speed is not important with core2 Duo or quad in choosing a motherboard.
Harvey5
May 16, 2007 7:44:07 AM

WD Raptor for OS only is generally the way to go. It will help overall system performance. Keeping quantities of HD video on Raptors is probably not worth the extra cost.

Core 2 Quad you will definitely benefit from. If your main purpose is to speed up highly parallel operations like video encoding, you'll get your money's worth.

Don't bother with SSD. IMO they are mainly for portable devices where moving parts are a drawback due to potential failure and power consumption. If you're interested in boosting your performance, I would invest in RAM for the money.

Lastly, moving to Vista may not bring you much improvement. If there is a 64-bit build of pinnacle it may help running on Vista x64, but otherwise it may not bring much.
May 17, 2007 5:07:49 PM

Thanks Picho, It looks like I will use raptor for o/s, Samsung 550gig hd for storage etc. & stick with XP. Just got to decide on dual or quad CPU. MB & cooling as I have had heat problems in past.
Harvey5
May 17, 2007 6:39:30 PM

Quote:
Thanks Picho, It looks like I will use raptor for o/s, Samsung 550gig hd for storage etc. & stick with XP. Just got to decide on dual or quad CPU. MB & cooling as I have had heat problems in past.
Harvey5


I'd suggest an Intel 965P based board in an ASUS or Gigabyte brand. Pick a model thats suits your needs for storage and peripherals. Intel's ICH can't be beat for hard drive performance and the chipset has excellent memory bandwidth. All adds up to a great platform for video :) 

nVidia has some excellent chipsets as well, but I'd sooner recommend these to gamers for nV SLI capability. I enjoyed working with the 680i, but nV's subsytem performance hasn't quite caught up to Intel yet and Intel has better non-1:1 OC'ing which adds more overclocking flexibility.

If heat has been an issue in the past, I'd suggest an Antec P180 case and a Tuniq tower for your CPU. This should give you one cool and quiet case with lots of room for drives :) 

Good luck :) 
May 17, 2007 10:52:12 PM

So many people talking about SATA2, there is no such thing, just sata 1.5Gbps and sata 3Gbps

SSD is the future, but the keyword there being future, it's still a bit before it's time right now

For the type of rendering you're talking about then Quad is definitely the way to go, even if the software doesn't support 4 threads you'll still have similar performance and be more future proof.
May 18, 2007 3:14:33 AM

JT001 is correct re: SATA. This is no such thing as a SATA I or SATA II HDD. HDDs use infertace terms such as 1.5Gb/s and 3.0Gb/s. You'll find many HDD makers refer to their drives as SATA hard drives (for brevity) , but never SATA I or SATA II.

Western Digital's Raptor uses the 1.5 Gb/s data transfer rate which some people erroneously call "SATA I"

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=189...
May 18, 2007 7:15:26 AM

Thanks every one, nice to have confirmation. Many poeple know that
HD's are eiher 150 or 300mbs. I think the manufacturers or other at first used sat 1 or 2 and in my case its a bad habit although its strange I say 300mbs when speaking ! abou HD'S.. Mybe its a bit like the old AGP X2 X4 X8 etc.. others used a different system. Ive looked a the tuniq tower, looks a good cooler, but is it too heavey on the MB !. Which ASUS board is best for Video editing. Which is more important FSB or RAM Speed apart from the CPU which is no1 consideration.
Thanks Harvey5
May 18, 2007 4:01:27 PM

LOL. SSD drives have been around for over 20 years and were considered "the future" back then.

IBM figures we should have MRAM drives (very fast alternative to flash) by 2010, but I'll believe it when I see it. Considering how many many flash drives and SD cards crap out, I hope they are serious.
May 18, 2007 4:14:22 PM

Yes SSD been around a long time. I'd like to know the type the military use, They must use super duper SSD's.. On paper they seem great until you dig a bit - No moving parts - No latency, Cooler etc.... .I'm looking forward to the Samsung spinpoint raptor 600gbs. Lol. Still can not find a good site comparing water cooling cpu temps.
Harvey5
May 18, 2007 5:56:27 PM

Quote:
Thanks every one, nice to have confirmation. Many poeple know that
HD's are eiher 150 or 300mbs. I think the manufacturers or other at first used sat 1 or 2 and in my case its a bad habit although its strange I say 300mbs when speaking ! abou HD'S.. Mybe its a bit like the old AGP X2 X4 X8 etc.. others used a different system. Ive looked a the tuniq tower, looks a good cooler, but is it too heavey on the MB !. Which ASUS board is best for Video editing. Which is more important FSB or RAM Speed apart from the CPU which is no1 consideration.
Thanks Harvey5


Forget about sata specs and what everyone says about it. It means nothing. You can't buy a hard drive fast enough to saturate it (short of Gigabyte's i-RAM anyway). Neither a 150 or 300 mph speed limit on a highway won't help a car with a top speed of 100.

Just make sure you have a fast drive (raptor, 1TB Hitachi, 7200.10 Seagate, etc. etc.) and a good south bridge (ie ICH7 or 8) and you'll have great storage performance.

Don't worry about FSB and RAM speed. It doesn't really mean much in the real world, trust me.

If you are running stock speeds, or mildly overclocking, just buy the fastest CPU you can afford. Don't waste any money on exotic mobos or fancy RAM, or crazy CPU coolers. This would take away from your CPU budget.

C2D E6700 at least,
preferrably X6800 or even QX6800 (if you have a fat wallet ;)  )

A board like this:
http://ca.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=307&l4=0...

RAM such as this:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=fi...

If you are overclocking on the more extreme side, then you should spend much more on mobo and RAM. You will want and nice CPU cooler as well.

This will give you more OC headroom. Nice thing is you can buy a cheaper chip :) 

So like a C2D E6420 or QX6600 CPU,

This board instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

RAM like this instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I'm assuming WinXP 32, so 2Gigs of RAM. For XP-Pro 64 or Vista 64 AND a video application supporting over 2GB, buy anywhere from 4-8GB.

I'd get that P180 case and a good PSU (Antec Trio, Enermax galaxy, PC Power & Cooling) either way.

Have fun :) 
May 19, 2007 8:30:23 AM

Thanks VIC10. The advice seems sound, If i get a an X6800 Dare I say QX6800 as it's nearly 3MHZ. There seems to be some controversy as some venders state water cooling essential ?. My own feeling is the cooler the better with a trusted cool make, especially if it extends the life of the cpu - so what would another £50 be against a £700 cpu. The ram speed had been troubling me - so as I'm editing large chunks of video whilst working it seems it's the amount of ram is more important than speed. My current system only has 2gig 40mhz ram. I know with my new build system I can easily make this 4gig. But I see many MB's quoting 8gig some 16gig of possible mem. Not many ram sticks avail with more than 1gig. Iv'e been looking at the Antec 180 case as well as the Thermal take Tia Chi - Yes its heavy ( harder to run away with ) It has built in water cooling but can not get any info from Thermaltake about the cooling temps I can expect. I could strip down my Chieftec or Thermaltake xaser3 cases to save money. Any way a decision will have to made in next few days.
Harvey 5
May 19, 2007 10:03:44 AM

It is too expensive for now and the pros do not cover the huge money spent on it. They are right and it's better to get a better cpu for faster editing and gaming.
May 20, 2007 5:59:49 PM

I have a quad core and I can vouche for the fact that it tears it up hardcore with video editing. And that is from a 7200 RPM drive.
May 24, 2007 6:23:19 PM

Thanks vylo. Thats good with a quad . ? how important is the graphics card as I currently us an older agp x8 Radeon 9800 256mb card. I guess any PCI card is better. Custom Pc July 2007 has just done an article on SOLID STATE DRIVES
it confirms all you chaps been saying . thanks
Harvey 5
May 25, 2007 4:04:26 AM

Video cards will accelerate video playback, the newest cards even taking Hi-Def playwork workload off the CPU, but don't normally accelerate encoding.

ATi has a utility for their X1K graphic cards for video encoding which supposedly is very fast. Never tried it, but worth looking into. Avivo Xcode I think its called.
May 25, 2007 5:37:28 AM

If you wait until July 22 the quad core q6600 will drop to $266 Price drops. The p35 motherboards should be out in volume by then too.
May 25, 2007 4:19:05 PM

Thanks neokill3r. You got me about p35 boards where have I been. I'll check em out on Google.
Thanks.
!