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Proper Airflow for my rig?

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May 20, 2007 1:20:42 AM

Hello :) 

Unfortunately after the help I asked in my previous topic, I wasnt able to find a non-sucky case in the local PC district... all they had is the usual crap.
So I bought the "best of the worst" as I saw it.

Its a crappy case and you basically dont find any information on the web about it except for some german/chinese sites (I think its chinese, "delux").

Anyway what's done is done, sucks for me that I wasnt able to find that El Cheapo Antec P180 clone, but what the...

Its made of steel not aluminum.

Basically on the inside it looks like this



So that makes it, PSU on the upper part as usual, and a 120mm El Cheapo fan in the back.

This is what the front side plate look like, it has basically some thing that is like an "heat helper", some sort of air extractor for the heatskink if you look it that way, and supposedly I can put a fan below it in order to work I guess (I might end up just throwing it away and just putting a fan).
There is another spot for another fan below that thing, and I think it should be in-line with my videocard.



-- Edit: This is it (better than my crappy webcam shot)



So that makes it two fans in the CPU/PCI-e levels, height-wise.

And that's pretty much it.
Unfortunately it doesnt have any spots for an upper fan.

On the right side from an inside point of view it has some "air holes" behind the lower drive-bay.



As you can see there are some plastic "HD fixing racks" as they say in the user manual.
Though I think Ill put my HD in the upper bay, since those plastic things dont give me confidence.

Now there are my specs if they help in anything

E6600
8800GTS 320
GA-965P-S3 MoBo
DVD-RW drive (IDE)
500 GB HD (SATA)

And I still havent make up my mind on my IDE CD-RW or 80GB HD (since I wont buy an IDE-2-SATA adaptor and my mobo only supports two IDE drives), in case you think its "safe" to put hardrives in the lower bay.

Im guessing if you put the fans on one side they blow air onto the guts of the case, and if you put them backwards they drag air to the outside world, right?

So what would you think is the recommended airflow for this thing?
Maybe the upper fan in the side plate(where that plastic thing is currently) should be dragging air outside, and the one below it too?

Maybe also if you have any recommendations on the position of drives etc.

Thanks :) 

More about : proper airflow rig

May 20, 2007 1:35:46 AM

Quote:
Best you can do is replace the fans with better ones. Also you can cut a hole in the top and mount a 120mm fan up there as an exhaust. This will really help the air flow.

Unfortunately there are no "better" fans over here. Just like with the PSU, Im damned.

About the cutting a hole on top, Im afraid it would be too difficult?
I mean I'd have to make like 100000 little tiny holes?
Or...? Just cant think of a simple way to do it.
Or maybe I cut the hole and somehow put a fan grill?
Coz I think I cannot get fan grills around and shipping one from the US is not an option.

Thanks for your time :) 
May 20, 2007 1:58:14 AM

Quote:
Go to the bottom link in my sig. I have a link to an article in there about modding tools. You may find the mod isn't going to be all that hard to do. Even if you drill holes to make a vent that would help.

All right. I just read the article. Unfortunately Im afraid it would be hard to get those tools, the only way would be buying them.

I know, its hard to help me because I always say "I cant get that", but what can I do? Might sound ridiculous for people in the US or UK or something like that, but that's the way things are, and the reason I have a debt in this life and the other after shipping around $1300 dollars worth parts from there :( 

So I expect this case to burn my components? :cry:  Or isnt there anything at all that I can do at least by putting those two fans on the side plate?

Thanks again for your time.
Related resources
May 20, 2007 3:24:23 AM

This is not a bad case fan wise, it will certainly do the job. If it were a smaller case, there would be cause for concern, but that design is fine. BTW, what are you going to house in it?
May 20, 2007 3:52:59 AM

Quote:
The case will be fine. Just don't exspect to be able to OC anything.

8O
I was expecting to get the E6600 up to 3 Ghz and no more.. that'd be fine or...? (Since people mention Ill be able to do with with stock heatsink and thermal compound).

Quote:
This is not a bad case fan wise, it will certainly do the job. If it were a smaller case, there would be cause for concern, but that design is fine. BTW, what are you going to house in it?

Thanks, gives me a little hope.
What will be housed in it? I stated that in my first post :wink:

After the little update I made in the first post, regarding what I called the "CPU helper" or something, gives me a little more hope to see it on a non El Cheapo case (that was a recommendation by a member, on my previous topic prior to the buy). So i guess after all, the "Side Air duct" wont be so useless?

And also would it be fine to maybe try to put an extra fan in the lower bay? (Since I dont think Ill be allocating anything down there anyway), maybe intake, blowing air to the CPU (dont know if Ill be able to fix it there, but an idea).

Thanks for your help :) 
May 20, 2007 5:12:10 AM

Quote:
You will just have to get the system built and see how your temps are before you go into OCing. If the overall airflow in the case isn't good enough then you may exsperience heat issues when you OC.

I understand. Proper temperatures, without crazy $$$ fans etc.. setups are in the range of...?
Something that you'd say is "good to go" (for OC'ing afterwards)?

Thanks again :) 
a c 137 ) Power supply
May 20, 2007 5:55:50 AM

It looks like it will be useable to me. I think the rear fan should be exhaist, and the side fan an intake. It also looks like there is a place in front of the hard drive cage where you can fit an intake fan. 120mm is best if it will fit, but even something smaller will do. I would not be too concerned about the hard drive mount unless you will be lugging it around to a lan party. Go ahead and use it. The main problem with lesser quality fans is that they make more noise, but the cooling should be ok. If noise turns out to be a problem, then you can slow them down with some sort of fan controller. Steel cases are not all bad. They might even be quieter than aluminum because they dont resonate as much. Don't worry too much about the parts, they are all designed to take care of themselves if it gets too hot. If you suspect that things may be getting too hot, you can always remove the side panel and direct a house fan inside as a temporary measure.
May 20, 2007 6:32:54 AM

Ahh great :) 

Since Im so n00b when it comes to hardware I get discouraged pretty easily.

Quote:
It looks like it will be useable to me. I think the rear fan should be exhaist, and the side fan an intake. It also looks like there is a place in front of the hard drive cage where you can fit an intake fan. 120mm is best if it will fit, but even something smaller will do.

Good to know, I think I might be able to somehow take a 80mm fan and "make it fit" :twisted:

Quote:

I would not be too concerned about the hard drive mount unless you will be lugging it around to a lan party. Go ahead and use it.

Oh you think so? :) 
Well its just it looks so.. feeble... But yeah, I wont be taking it to a LAN party, like EVER. So usually my cases stay in the same place, except when they get moved so I can clean up a bit or so.

Quote:

The main problem with lesser quality fans is that they make more noise, but the cooling should be ok. If noise turns out to be a problem, then you can slow them down with some sort of fan controller.

Ohh I understand :p  Well, noise to be honest is not a concern... I know a lot of people care about silent PCs but anyway I live in a pretty noisy area in front of a main highway and so... what means noise is what it take in consideration the less, or I just dont care at all. As long as it doesnt sound like a motorcycle or something 8O, but neeh, that's not gonna happen ;) 

Quote:

Steel cases are not all bad. They might even be quieter than aluminum because they dont resonate as much.

Mmm I see. Well its just usually recommended cases are all aluminum and material from rivers in mars and stuff like that, so I thought steel was just crap, since all cases I can get here are made in that material. But ok, its good to know they dont suck so much.

Quote:

Don't worry too much about the parts, they are all designed to take care of themselves if it gets too hot. If you suspect that things may be getting too hot, you can always remove the side panel and direct a house fan inside as a temporary measure.

That'd be an option. I noticed the "temporary" at the end... yeah, I guess I'd have to think about a new case or something, because also I dont like my parts exposed to the real world (for instance, too much cockroaches in my house).

Quote:
i have a cheapo case also
after reading a lot i did some major cable management .added a intake fan right there
the fan was an 80mm from a cheapo PSU and does the job

Whoa! Great to know :)  I might do it as well.
Just a question though, is that spot right there, lets say, inside the drive bay (or better, behind it) where you put it?
Because actually that's not my case, just put that picture as I said, to reflect what the side plates look like, but there is no room for a fan back there, I was more thinking of something in front of the drive bay, check it out:



Would you think it'd be fine right there in the red line spot?
Or maybe the green line? (Then I'd certainly couldnt put HDs in there, which Im planning not to anyway).
Just curious a little bit on why it has to be in the back since anyway it will be flowing air to the MoBo (likely to the PCI slots and such)?

Quote:

about the hole in the side is not useless it has the purpose to improve airflow

Sorry, which hole exactly? Do you mean what's in the "back" side plate behind the lower drive bay?



So far this would be beta 1.
Red is heatsink exhausting.
The PSU exhausting.
The lower drive bay fan provided I get your help on the answer, would be intake, blowing air to the MoBo right?
The side plate fan as intake also, blowing air onto the MoBo.
The rear case fan (only one 120mm), exhaust.
Im yet to see what the purpose of the "Side Air duct" is (which is the one with the question mark), or if I remove it and put another fan (intake or exhaust?) or if I put a fan below the thing itself (like fan, then that thing on top of it).

Thanks a lot for your help guys, appreciate it a lot :) :) :) 
May 20, 2007 9:14:06 AM

Quote:
On the right side from an inside point of view it has some "air holes" behind the lower drive-bay.

Hey, that looks like a good spot for a intake fan, would assist in HDD cooling - just check the clearance with the hdd's installed :wink:

edit - that would compliment a "blow hole mod" quite nicely
May 20, 2007 9:42:18 AM

ok
about the intake fan
first you have to remove the front bezel to proper mount the fan

second about that hole in the side..

i adeed a thin layer of foam to cover it to prevent dust come in
and also did some nice cable management to improve airflow
before

after
May 20, 2007 10:13:35 PM

Quote:
The CPU cooler actually draws air in and blows it down onto the HS. So that dust sits right over the CPU cooler so the cooler is able to draw cool air in from outside the case. Its the rear fan and PSU that pulls the hot air out of the system. Side and front and ussually intake while rear and top are exahust.

Oh thanks for the explanation, I understand now. I guess I was confused with the heatsink+CPU cooler (actually thought they were 1, but comes out the heatsink is just that gray thing with holes and the CPU cooler is the Fan).

Quote:
On the right side from an inside point of view it has some "air holes" behind the lower drive-bay.

Hey, that looks like a good spot for a intake fan, would assist in HDD cooling - just check the clearance with the hdd's installed :wink:

edit - that would compliment a "blow hole mod" quite nicely
Might seem fine, but after all I think Im going to put the HD in the upper bay. That mod seems easy however, just that I dont have the proper tools to cut on steel nor the money to get them right now :oops: 
But maybe Ill have it in mind shall I add another drive.

Quote:
ok
about the intake fan
first you have to remove the front bezel to proper mount the fan

Oh, didnt know you could remove that frontal thing :lol: 
Ok, then once removed... you put it on the right side (your photo perspective) just where the read arrow is pointing towards, or behind it (on the "inside" of the case)?

Quote:

second about that hole in the side..
i adeed a thin layer of foam to cover it to prevent dust come in

8O So basically you are not "using" the "side air duct", but you removed it and "sealed" the hole with foam? So I take it as that duct is no good right?

Quote:

and also did some nice cable management to improve airflow
before
X
after
X

8O That seems great, like a total change 8O
Do you think insulation tape would work to help things up a little? Given the fact neither my case nor my PSU have cable management (forgot the tech term).

So basically what's left to ask is, the "side air duct" goes off, and can I put the fan in the drive bay right next to the MoBo? (Like not in the front bezel, but rather in front of the drive bay, which would be the red arrow (not the 'X') in the bay on my previous picture?

Thanks a lot for your help guys :) 
May 20, 2007 10:46:22 PM

Front fan should be intake and the side panel including the air duct. Replace the air duct with a fan to draw cool directly towards the cpu cooler. The back should be exhaust as well. Cut a blow hole on top of the case for an additional exhaust.
May 20, 2007 10:53:06 PM

First thing to do is get a tool called a "nibbler" and REMOVE the rear exit fan guard from the case...that improves airflow up to 70%.

The fan on the side door is to send cool air to your GFX card but would do better if moved to the other side of the case to blow air in over the HD area....even though it may be need to be mounted on the OUTSIDE of the case (use nibbler to improve airflow on that side as well).

That "funnel" really may not need a fan depending on the CPU cooler you use. It is ment to allow the CPU fan on stock cooler styles (fan on top blowing down) to draw cool-outside air over the CPU cooler and as such it works very well without an added fan.
Same idea used in some Coolermaster cases lowered my stock Barton builds 25F (13.8C).

If you use a tall tower style CPU cooler you will have to remove the funnel...but if you use a Thermalright SI-120 or it's big brother then the funnle can stay and even do a better job.

That case with these simple mods will provide good cooling for almost any OC you want to shoot for.
May 20, 2007 11:52:20 PM

Quote:
Front fan should be intake and the side panel including the air duct. Replace the air duct with a fan to draw cool directly towards the cpu cooler. The back should be exhaust as well. Cut a blow hole on top of the case for an additional exhaust.

I see. But as I said before I cant put another fan on the top unfortunately (no money for gonna-use-it-just-once tools).
But I see your idea of removing the duct and replacing with another fan.

Quote:
First thing to do is get a tool called a "nibbler" and REMOVE the rear exit fan guard from the case...that improves airflow up to 70%.

Although I wont buy tools, I didnt understand this part, sorry. You mean to remove the fan below the PSU and make a hole?

Quote:

The fan on the side door is to send cool air to your GFX card but would do better if moved to the other side of the case to blow air in over the HD area....even though it may be need to be mounted on the OUTSIDE of the case (use nibbler to improve airflow on that side as well).

I see. But maybe I dont know if its better for it on the side, since i wont put hardrives down there as I said before.

Quote:

That "funnel" really may not need a fan depending on the CPU cooler you use. It is ment to allow the CPU fan on stock cooler styles (fan on top blowing down) to draw cool-outside air over the CPU cooler and as such it works very well without an added fan.
Same idea used in some Coolermaster cases lowered my stock Barton builds 25F (13.8C).

If you use a tall tower style CPU cooler you will have to remove the funnel...but if you use a Thermalright SI-120 or it's big brother then the funnle can stay and even do a better job.

Ah ok :)  You explained well what it does.
Well Im using the stock HS/Cooler and will always do, so Im unsure now if I should remove the duct, complement with a fan, or leave as-is.

Thanks for your time :) 
May 21, 2007 1:08:08 AM

Okay I got you. But the side fan for the air duct replacement is the one that can significantly lower you cpu temp big time.
a c 137 ) Power supply
May 21, 2007 1:48:00 AM

Another thought on cooling. The proposed vga card is a 8800gts. This card generates considerable heat. The cooler is very good, expelling heat out of the back slot. There are four slots on the card whidh also expel heat, but this air is recirculated, which is bad. I mounted a slot cooler like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... below the vga card which helped reduce cpu and vga temperatures by 5 degrees.
a b ) Power supply
May 21, 2007 2:18:08 AM

I would recommend removing the CPU duct and replacing it with an inward blowing fan. Then, duct tape a flexible plastic tube (a made my own out of a plastic folder) to blow air directly on the CPU heatsink. This keeps my FX-60 below 55C (max), and my case is worse than yours (and has a 2900XT in it!). Other than that, have all front blowing in and all back blowing out. I would recommend having the side fan (next to the GFX card) also blowing in. You should be able to OC fine with this setup as long as you have a good CPU fan (copper preferably).
May 21, 2007 8:01:48 AM

to improve airflow i added a ...wind tunnel

in the 'tunnel ' i added another fan who blows cool air straight to CPU
and i modded the plastic parts of the front bezel like this

and added also a piece of foam a dust filter....and my cpu idles now 29 celsius
a b ) Power supply
May 21, 2007 12:16:13 PM

Nice :lol:  :lol:  .
May 21, 2007 9:52:19 PM

this looks exactly like a Coolermaster Centurion 534+. I added a couple fans to mine using double sided tape and zip ties, and removed the duct and side fan (no room for that with my CPU cooler). I've seen a ~3 degree temp drop with this setup.

May 21, 2007 11:17:37 PM

Wow, you guys are helpful.

ZOldDude, I think Ill see that option about leaving the side duct first, and if I see temps are all ok, then I will probably leave as-is.

Chuckshissle, EXT64, seems like the common factor is replacing the side duct. I might end up doing that, provided with it on, temps would seem to be wrong.

anticupidon, you're most definitely a modding freak. That looks really, kinda scary but great all at the same time :lol: 

disposablehero, well I might end up putting that fan on the front of the lower bay, as anyway I wont fit HDs in there.
I think Ill be fine with the side duct (might replace it, mightn't, still have to check the temps with it on and replaced with a fan to check). Size wont be a problem since Im using intel's stock.
Its interesting to see the fan in the upper drive bay.

I think with the information provided I will be able to achieve at least an acceptable airflow in my crappy case and hopefully I wont have to BBQ my CPU/Videocard ;) 
Thanks a lot for your time :) 
!