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CRT RPTV versus other RPTV Technologies

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Anonymous
January 2, 2005 10:32:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any issues
with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD and
DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is CRT
still the best picture?
January 3, 2005 1:16:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Marty C wrote:
> I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any
issues
> with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward
LCD and
> DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT?
Is CRT
> still the best picture?

I see many responses here and I wanted to comment on the whole "CRT
RP's can't produce 1920x1080 (1080i) debate". Based on the little
technical knowledge I have this appears to be true, the funny thing
about specs are that they exist on paper and what's more important a
spec sheet or what you see with your own eyes. So CRT RP sets still
have two things going for them #1 they are inexpensive compared to all
other technologies (save DirectView CRT), #2 the picture quality is
outstanding and very arguably the best of all (again, save DirectView
CRT) in terms of contrast, blacks, and the other important things the
human eye sees. There are a large number of Plasma sets only capable of
displaying 480p (well under what a CRT RP set can do) for more than
double what you'd pay for a good CRT RP set.

If CRT RP sets can't really do 1920x1080, I'd love to know how
manufactures are getting away with stamping these sets HD and HD Ready
and why they seem to support 1080i natively. Wouldn't this get more
attention if it were a real issue? I don't think it is a real issue and
again, I tell everyone trust your eyes. Walk into a few different show
rooms and compare technologies what do you think looks best? A good
number of us love our CRT RPs and will hold on to them untill something
that can match in terms of performance and picture quality surfaces at
a resonable price.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 1:55:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Marty C wrote:
> I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any issues
> with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD and
> DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is CRT
> still the best picture?

The weight and size of the CRT RPTV is a large part of it. While the
CRT RPTV can arguably produce the best picture (if you are sitting at
the right spot) for black levels & total contrast, the other cons
include dimmer max screen brightness, more limited viewing angle, long
term servicing issues for possible convergence problems, shorter life
span & burn-in sensitivity - the 7" CRT tubes found in most CRT RP sets
run at a pretty high intensity to project the picture onto the big screen.

What I have been stuck by this year is how fast the CRT RPTVs are
getting pushed to the sidelines for the RP market. At the national B&M
chains, the DLP, LCD, and LCOS (JVC DILA) have taken over the lion share
of the floor space for the RP sets. People want the thinner and lighter
sets over the CRT RP sets. My bet is that by Xmas 2005 shopping season,
you will see maybe only 2-3 CRT RPTVs at the typical Best Buy and none
by mid-2006.

Alan F
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January 3, 2005 3:44:47 AM

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"Marty C" <mccohen@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:aw0Cd.6415$dV3.5857@fe12.lga...
> I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any
issues
> with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD
and
> DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is
CRT
> still the best picture?
>
>

For some strange reason, there is no CRT RP set that I know of that can
resolve the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even though it should be technically
possible no one has produced one.
That's the reason I stopped myself from buying a CRT RP a few months ago,
and with xHD3 true 1920x1080 res sets just round the corner I'm waiting for
them.
Others may have other reasons for moving to LCD and DLP.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 3:44:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"hg" <hg@gh.hg> wrote in message
news:41d894c0$0$20489$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...


> For some strange reason, there is no CRT RP set that I know of that can
> resolve the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even though it should be
> technically
> possible no one has produced one.

CRT RP's with 9" CRT's are capable of producing a full 1920x1080
Very high end in the past and extremely rare these days as CRT RP's have
retreated down-market.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 3:48:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Alan Figgatt <afiggatt@comcast.net> wrote:

> What I have been stuck by this year is how fast the CRT RPTVs are
> getting pushed to the sidelines for the RP market.

I've had a 42" Sony RPLCD for a month now, but previously never considered
getting a CRT RPTV because of their size, bulk, and image quality which I
felt was sub-par in many ways. Starting with a tiny LCD array rather than
big CRTs has led, I believe, to immense improvement in RP light engine
technology using smaller lenses and yielding more even illumination, better
convergence, and enhanced realism. These smaller light engines are
probably advanced at least a whole generation over the CRT sets that have
been around for several years. On PBS HDTV features, my Sony's image is
spectacular (even in a bright room) without having paid a premium price for
plasma.

--
Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 5:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"hg" <hg@gh.hg> wrote in message

> For some strange reason, there is no CRT RP set that I know of that can
> resolve the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even though it should be
> technically
> possible no one has produced one.
> That's the reason I stopped myself from buying a CRT RP a few months ago,
> and with xHD3 true 1920x1080 res sets just round the corner I'm waiting
> for
> them.
> Others may have other reasons for moving to LCD and DLP.
>
Almost all rear projection CRT HDTV sets display well over the minimum
resolution
required for 1920x1080.

You DO KNOW that "resolution" is NOT PIXELS and
that resolution is scaled per unit of picture height? So the 1920 horizonal
pixel number
translates to (9/16)*1920= 1080 lines of HORIZONTAL resolution, which is
equal to the
maximum VERTICAL resolution of a 1080 scan line standard.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 5:22:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Frank Provasek" <frank@frankcoins.com> wrote in message news:q%1Cd.15803

> Almost all rear projection CRT HDTV sets display well over the minimum
> resolution
> required for 1920x1080.


Maybe in the old days of 9" tubes, but the 7" CRT's found on virtually all
current CRT RP's are lucky to produce 1600 horizonal pizels or less.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 6:28:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have a front projection CRT and the picture quality is excellent.
Unfortunately, the beast weighs almost 100 pounds and has to be EXACTLY 96
3/8" from the screen in order to produce an 80" wide display. If I want a
larger picture, I have to move it, which is not an easy thing considering it
is permanent mounted to the ceiling. The picture is better than any of my
friends who have LCD and DLP technology but it is also very finicky (i.e. it
must be aligned from time to time). FWIW, I have no plans to move to the
new technologies, however, I find CRTs had to recommend to anyone but hard
core AV enthusiasts.

"Marty C" <mccohen@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:aw0Cd.6415$dV3.5857@fe12.lga...
> I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any
issues
> with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD
and
> DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is
CRT
> still the best picture?
>
>
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 9:55:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Randy Sweeney" <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:CaCdnVW-4dupM0XcRVn-uw@comcast.com...
>
> "Frank Provasek" <frank@frankcoins.com> wrote in message news:q%1Cd.15803
>
> > Almost all rear projection CRT HDTV sets display well over the minimum
> > resolution
> > required for 1920x1080.
>
>
> Maybe in the old days of 9" tubes, but the 7" CRT's found on virtually all
> current CRT RP's are lucky to produce 1600 horizonal pizels or less.

The Mitsubishi Diamond models WS55813, WS65813, WS55815, & WS65815 all have
9" CRTs and are specified to have "1200 horizontal TV lines of resolution".
This would be well over 1920 pixels.

I believe the high end Hitachis still have 9" CRTs as well, perhaps others.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 11:07:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Alan Figgatt wrote:

>What I have been stuck by this year is how fast the CRT
>RPTVs are getting pushed to the sidelines for the RP market.
>At the national B&M chains, the DLP, LCD, and LCOS (JVC DILA)
>have taken over the lion share of the floor space for the
>RP sets. People want the thinner and lighter sets over the
>CRT RP sets.

I suspect that the real reason specialty electronics stores
are pushing non-CRT RPTVs is that Walmart has started selling
CRT RPTVs. They know they can't compete with Walmart on price.

Whether Walmart is "on the sidelines" or specialty electronics
stores are "on the sidelines" is a matter of perspective...

Isaac Kuo
January 3, 2005 2:14:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

<jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:1104732969.979363.79120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
snip
>
> If CRT RP sets can't really do 1920x1080, I'd love to know how
> manufactures are getting away with stamping these sets HD and HD Ready
> and why they seem to support 1080i natively. Wouldn't this get more
> attention if it were a real issue? I don't think it is a real issue and
> again, I tell everyone trust your eyes. Walk into a few different show
> rooms and compare technologies what do you think looks best? A good
> number of us love our CRT RPs and will hold on to them untill something
> that can match in terms of performance and picture quality surfaces at
> a resonable price.
>

Fact of the matter is fixed panel displays with 1920x1080 pixels display the
entire signal. There is no debate that any of the signal is lost on this
type of display. Another very important factor is overscan on RP CRT and
although it varies widely on different sets a lot of the signal is just not
displayed cause it's off the screen.
For me, that is the overriding factor. Sure I would love a DLP set that has
the actual picture performance of a CRT but the res factor is too important
for me.
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 7:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I am a newbie to this stuff. Can somebody explain how resolution, pixels,
etc works. What is the best resolution for HDTV etc. Thanks.


"hg" <hg@gh.hg> wrote in message
news:41d894c0$0$20489$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
>
> "Marty C" <mccohen@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:aw0Cd.6415$dV3.5857@fe12.lga...
>> I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any
> issues
>> with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD
> and
>> DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is
> CRT
>> still the best picture?
>>
>>
>
> For some strange reason, there is no CRT RP set that I know of that can
> resolve the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even though it should be
> technically
> possible no one has produced one.
> That's the reason I stopped myself from buying a CRT RP a few months ago,
> and with xHD3 true 1920x1080 res sets just round the corner I'm waiting
> for
> them.
> Others may have other reasons for moving to LCD and DLP.
>
>
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 7:31:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

IsaacKuo wrote:

> Alan Figgatt wrote:
>
>
>>What I have been stuck by this year is how fast the CRT
>>RPTVs are getting pushed to the sidelines for the RP market.
>>At the national B&M chains, the DLP, LCD, and LCOS (JVC DILA)
>>have taken over the lion share of the floor space for the
>>RP sets. People want the thinner and lighter sets over the
>>CRT RP sets.
>
> I suspect that the real reason specialty electronics stores
> are pushing non-CRT RPTVs is that Walmart has started selling
> CRT RPTVs. They know they can't compete with Walmart on price.
>
> Whether Walmart is "on the sidelines" or specialty electronics
> stores are "on the sidelines" is a matter of perspective...
>
> Isaac Kuo

The warehouse stores such as Costco have been selling discounted CRT
RP TVs for years. Walmart sells DVD players & direct view CRT TVs, has
BB stopped selling those? While I will go along with that the extra
profit margin in the micro-display RP TVs is part of the motivation for
the Best Buys or Circuit Cities to push them, they would not be doing
this if people were not buying them. When I scan threads in avsforum.com
or elsewhere, the bulk of the discussion on RP sets has dramatically
shifted in the past year or so to the DLP, LCD, and LCOS sets.

Even for the average customer walking into the store w/o knowledge of
the CRT vs DLP, LCD issues, what do they base their decisions on?

1. DLP, LCD RP sets are thinner and much lighter. Huge improvement in
the Wife Acceptance Factor here.
2. DLP, LCD RP sets have brighter screens with better viewing angles
(not nearly as good as Plasma or direct view LCD, but still better) and
don't have the beamy effect you often see with CRT RPs.
3. DLP, LCD are the new technology with the hot new buzzwords.

I don't know where the sales split between CRT and micro-display RP
TVs falls these days, but it is a good bet that it is shifting quickly.
I will have to look; maybe CEA or a trade publication will post the
breakdown for the end of 2004 season.

Alan F
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 11:22:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Marty C" <mccohen@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:p ziCd.6498$wg.2844@fe12.lga...
>I am a newbie to this stuff. Can somebody explain how resolution, pixels,
>etc works. What is the best resolution for HDTV etc. Thanks.

I started a few weeks ago too. Got a splitting headache for the first while.
Reading this group helps once you've got the basics, but for that I
recommend two sites: CNET and Howstuffworks. They explain all this with
minimum headaches. But it's not easy for us novices.
January 4, 2005 12:05:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:32:21 -0500, "Marty C" <mccohen@optonline.net>
wrote:

>I see so many posts about flaws with both LCD and DLP, but never any issues
>with CRT. If this is the case, why are so many people moving toward LCD and
>DLP so quickly? Is it solely because of the size and weight of CRT? Is CRT
>still the best picture?
>
I believe good RP CRTs beat the LCDs and DLPs hands down for picture
quality dollar for dollar.
Thumper
To reply drop XYZ in address
January 4, 2005 12:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I'm sorry buy I just have a hard time respecting that. I mean, why buy
a product because it's technical specs tell you one thing. What do your
eyes tell you? Specs exist on paper they are important to a point, but
only to a point.

Resolution is only one of many factors. To many of us performance is a
huge factor. It's the overall viewing experience that you should be
looking for and be happy with.

-Jeremy
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 11:22:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Excellent advice. On ALL varieties of projection TVs (whatever the
technology) the quality of the optics, screen,
filters, mirrors, convergence, power supply regulation, the signal
processing, are all more important than a
"resolution" number. Trust your eyes. If it looks good in a showroom, it
will look GREAT at home.
!