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Loss of video during 3dMark05 testing.

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a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 3:49:31 AM

Okay here's the situation:

Installed 7600gs 512 PNY (agp) video card last week (6 days ago on sons computer). Did notice that I had to use the digital output (with D/A converter) to get the signal to the monitor (17" CRT). Didn't think this was going to be a problem. Just wanted to test the system for about a week and see if anything else pops up before RMA'ing it. I purged all video drivers (was 9800pro 128mb) and installed new drivers from nVidia's website, prior to install of the card.
Computer ran fine, or so I thought for about 5 1/2 days. Then out of the blue the video would shut off (fans and LED on mobo would stay on). CRT said "no video signal" on it. I tried reseating the video card and that didn't help. Still not getting any signal from the system.
I installed old (9800pro 128mb) video card and was able to get video back. This is when I thought the video card had died, but that wasn't the whole story. I wiped all of the nVidia drivers off the system and installed the latest ATI video drivers. All seemed well at this point. I then started another 3dmark05 test to try and validate the video again. It ran fine without issues and had a better score than the 7600gs had!!! It was around 3100 and the 7600gs had a 2929 score :(  Well this gave me the impression that the video card was defective from the start. Somewhat wrong again. My son started playing again (while I slept, I work graveyard) and the video kept dying on him within 5 min. or so. Still the case fans were on along with the LED on the mobo too. I'm almost thinking that the PSU might not be working correctly. I used ASUS probe to monitor the voltages and temps and they all seem to be fine. I recorded the temps and voltages during the testing and they seem to stay stable. Any thoughts?

Here are my specs.

P4 3.2gig Prescott socket 478 with Zalman cooler (not sure which one but is big)
1 gig Corsair DDR3200 value ram
80gig HD 7200rpm
ATI 9800pro 128mb AGP video card
Generic case
PSU is 450W Spire (I believe with 15A and 18A on both 12V rails)

Will give more details when I have more time. At work and need to head back to it :( 

Thanks in advance for any help/ideas.
May 21, 2007 5:01:48 AM

I would check the motherboard for bad / failing capacitors

The PSU is a Topower OEM which IMHO is not "low" I would rank it mediocre - I rank Aspire/Apevia as "low" they use youngyear as their OEM 8O topower at least puts realistic specs on their labels.
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 8:31:28 AM

Quote:
Yes the PSu is a bit on the low side ofr the system. You will need to get a new PSU. Look at the Ref. List in my sig. Check out the 400W FSP AX400 PSU. That will have plenty of power for the system and is a qualtiy unit at a reasonable price.


Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Thanks for the quick post :)  The PSU is an Enlight 450W sata, which has 14A and 15A on the 2 12V rails. Specs are here:
http://nl.enlightcorp.com/Product/Product_Detail.aspx?I...

Quote:
I would check the motherboard for bad / failing capacitors

The PSU is a Topower OEM which IMHO is not "low" I would rank it mediocre - I rank Aspire/Apevia as "low" they use youngyear as their OEM topower at least puts realistic specs on their labels.


Sorry, I looked at the wrong PSU manufacturer. It is an Enlight, which I got when the PoS Generic PSU died previous to this one. I have had the system for about 2 1/2 - 3 years? so it has been running fine until the video card upgrade :(  The mobo is a Asus P4P800SE, so which caps are you talking about? all of them, or is there a more specific place I should look?
Related resources
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 8:52:47 AM

Quote:
That PSu offers 20A to 22A at best so you are close to the edge of the PSU's abilities. Now considering the age of the PSU its very likly that the PSU can't even provide more then 18A. It may be time to get a good qualtiy PSU like the ones mentioned above.


Yep, was wondering it myself after the problem arose. What do you think the maximum amount of power that I would be using on the system? I have another PSU that I might be able to test with, but it's currently in another system which has:
AMD 64 3200+ s939
Asus MVP mobo
2 gig DDR 3200 (2x1gig) Corsair XMS2
DVD burner
DVD ROM drive
x1800xt 256mb video card
Raidmax Case
Generic Raidmax PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
with only 13A on a single 12V rail, which I'm not sure how it's working with that low of amperage on the 12V rail. I wasn't aware of the PSU's low amps until months after building it :(  I started finding this out when I noticed your PSU links and information (mpilchfamily).

That is the only PSU that I can test with right now, unless I order a new PSU, which I might. I had filled out the RMA for the 7600gs before I came to work today, because the analog output of it wasn't even working when I first got the card (should've told me something). And now the digital out doesn't work either :( 
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 9:06:13 AM

Quote:
Yes the PSu is a bit on the low side ofr the system. You will need to get a new PSU. Look at the Ref. List in my sig. Check out the 400W FSP AX400 PSU. That will have plenty of power for the system and is a qualtiy unit at a reasonable price.


Is this the one your talking about?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

What video card could I comfortably put on that PSU? I know it depends on alot of components, lets say a AMD 64 x2 3600, 2 gigs RAM (2x1), 2 Dvd drives, maybe 3 or 4 case fans, etc. Just looking for possible upgrade path in the future, so I don't have to possibly buy another PSU for a couple of years. I probably won't be buying a DX10 card for the PSU, so that might make it easier.
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 9:24:19 AM

Quote:
Almost forgot. Have you checked the video card temps? It may be locking up on you from overheating. 3D Mark can stress your system pretty good. So temps may be an issue as well.


No I haven't. Is there a program to monitor them? One reason I didn't look at that is that the system was working just fine with the 9800pro in it before the upgrade. So I thought that since it worked before that I shouldn't have any issues when I put the 9800pro back into the computer. I do have the the side off of the case, so I can have access to the parts at the moment.
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 21, 2007 9:43:08 AM

Quote:
You will need to go into the video control panel.

Right click the desktop, Properties, Settings tab, advanced button. Now you will see a tab listing the video card. Click that and a menue will pop up to the left of that window. There you should find an option for monitoring temps. Be sure your in clasic view. If you don't see that option then Google Coolbits. This is a registry entry that unlocks hidden abilities in the Nvidia drives, such as OCing abilities and temp monitoring. So download and install it and you can look at your temps.


Sorry but the nVidia 7600gs doesn't even work right now. I have the ATI 9800pro installed so I can try and troubleshoot the problem. But I'll look into that when I get home in the morning :)  Thanks for your quick replys :) 
May 21, 2007 9:10:11 PM

Quote:
Sorry, I looked at the wrong PSU manufacturer. It is an Enlight, which I got when the PoS Generic PSU died previous to this one. I have had the system for about 2 1/2 - 3 years? so it has been running fine until the video card upgrade :(  The mobo is a Asus P4P800SE, so which caps are you talking about? all of them, or is there a more specific place I should look?


Well one thing for sure, the 7600gs should have reduced the power consumption, not increased it...

Quote:
The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2, mark84@atomicmpc forums"]9800 Pro_________}}}}}}}}}}}|' 47W ²
7600 GS _________}}}}}}|' 27W ² (underclocked GT)
[/url]

I can't see the GPU upgrade as being the root cause of your problems, perhaps it is a coincidence. I recall similiar situations where the system board was the real problem and another where a power spike in the utility grid blew out the power supply and the system board and attempts to replace the PSU were futile, and just wasted time.

I would test the PSU and both the GPUs in another system if possible. If you are willing, use the raidmax system for component testing. Funny how that is all working on that psu :?

Good luck :wink:
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 22, 2007 2:09:17 AM

Quote:
Sorry, I looked at the wrong PSU manufacturer. It is an Enlight, which I got when the PoS Generic PSU died previous to this one. I have had the system for about 2 1/2 - 3 years? so it has been running fine until the video card upgrade :(  The mobo is a Asus P4P800SE, so which caps are you talking about? all of them, or is there a more specific place I should look?


Well one thing for sure, the 7600gs should have reduced the power consumption, not increased it...

Quote:
The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2, mark84@atomicmpc forums"]9800 Pro_________}}}}}}}}}}}|' 47W ²
7600 GS _________}}}}}}|' 27W ² (underclocked GT)
[/url]

I can't see the GPU upgrade as being the root cause of your problems, perhaps it is a coincidence. I recall similiar situations where the system board was the real problem and another where a power spike in the utility grid blew out the power supply and the system board and attempts to replace the PSU were futile, and just wasted time.

I would test the PSU and both the GPUs in another system if possible. If you are willing, use the raidmax system for component testing. Funny how that is all working on that psu :?

Good luck :wink:

Yeah isn't it! I didn't know jack about PSU's when I ordered the Raidmax setup. I've always had good luck with Raidmax cases and PSU's, up to now (/crosses fingers). I know that the 7600gs had less power requirements, so didn't think it was the problem. I believe I must've had a power spike and took out the GPU and probably did some damage to PSU/mobo. I'm going to be ordering a new PSU in a few days, have to wait until I have $ for it. I hope the mobo hasn't been damaged, but I have an eerie feeling that it might be involved too. I would like to upgrade to something newer, but don't have the $ for it yet :( . Unfortunately I can't test the AGP video card on my Raidmax setup, since it's PCI-e only :(  I'll have to unplug PSU and transfer it over to the P4 setup. Not sure if the PSU can handle it though :( 
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 22, 2007 2:15:51 AM

Quote:
Sorry, I looked at the wrong PSU manufacturer. It is an Enlight, which I got when the PoS Generic PSU died previous to this one. I have had the system for about 2 1/2 - 3 years? so it has been running fine until the video card upgrade :(  The mobo is a Asus P4P800SE, so which caps are you talking about? all of them, or is there a more specific place I should look?


Well one thing for sure, the 7600gs should have reduced the power consumption, not increased it...

Quote:
The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2, mark84@atomicmpc forums"]9800 Pro_________}}}}}}}}}}}|' 47W ²
7600 GS _________}}}}}}|' 27W ² (underclocked GT)
[/url]

I can't see the GPU upgrade as being the root cause of your problems, perhaps it is a coincidence. I recall similiar situations where the system board was the real problem and another where a power spike in the utility grid blew out the power supply and the system board and attempts to replace the PSU were futile, and just wasted time.

I would test the PSU and both the GPUs in another system if possible. If you are willing, use the raidmax system for component testing. Funny how that is all working on that psu :?

Good luck :wink:

Yeah isn't it! I didn't know jack about PSU's when I ordered the Raidmax setup. I've always had good luck with Raidmax cases and PSU's, up to now (/crosses fingers). I know that the 7600gs had less power requirements, so didn't think it was the problem. I believe I must've had a power spike and took out the GPU and probably did some damage to PSU/mobo. I'm going to be ordering a new PSU in a few days, have to wait until I have $ for it. I hope the mobo hasn't been damaged, but I have an eerie feeling that it might be involved too. I would like to upgrade to something newer, but don't have the $ for it yet :( . Unfortunately I can't test the AGP video card on my Raidmax setup, since it's PCI-e only :(  I'll have to unplug PSU and transfer it over to the P4 setup. Not sure if the PSU can handle it though :( 
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 23, 2007 3:35:33 AM

Okay here is an update since the last post. I put a small desk fan next to the computer and tried running 3dmark05 again and this time it passed. I'm not sure if it's the video card (not likely, I think) or maybe one of the components on the mobo is running too hot. I have another test computer coming to the house tomorrow (one with a AGP slot) so I will be able to isolate the video card on another system. I don't know if the PSU is still at fault yet, but I'm trying to minimize the variables as best as I can. Any other thoughts?
a b V Motherboard
a b U Graphics card
May 28, 2007 1:24:46 PM

So I put the 9800pro into the AGP mobo system that my sister-in-law has and it worked out just fine, so I'm leaning towards the onboard chipset is getting hot. Will try and test my theory out later. Thanks for all of the reply's from everyone.
!