Intel - stopping poor children from getting computers

Twisted_Sister

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On 60 Minutes last night (the news show your grandparents watch) - about the initiative to get laptops to children in poor countries.

Here are some quotes:


Nicholas Negroponte, a professor at MIT, had a dream. In it every child on the planet had his own computer. In that way, he figured, children from the most impoverished places – from deserts and jungles and slums could become educated and part of the modern world. Poor kids would have new possibilities.

But lately One Laptop has had to contend with a new challenge: competition. This lab in Sao Paulo is testing two other laptops the Brazilian government is thinking of buying for school children, including one made in India and Negroponte’s biggest competitor: the Classmate by Intel, the giant chip maker.


Intel gave every student in this class in Mexico a Classmate – which Negroponte believes is part of an effort to kill him off.

At a recent lecture at MIT he accused Intel of dumping, of going to the same governments he’s trying to sell to and offering the Classmate below cost.

"Intel should be ashamed of itself," Negroponte says. "It’s just – it’s just shameless."

"Negroponte believes that you’re trying to drive him out," Stahl told Craig Barrett, Intel’s Chairman of the Board.

... the heart of it is that the One Laptop uses chips made by AMD, Intel’s biggest competitor.

"Intel and AMD fight viciously," Negroponte says." And we’re just sort of caught in the middle."

"Yes, Intel has hurt the mission enormously," Negroponte says.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/20/60minutes/printable2830058.shtml
 

oserus

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Let me see if I have your complaint correct...
1) Someone started a program to sell cheap system to third world countries in hopes of raising the computer literacy rate in those areas.
2) Another company had the audacity of offering one of those countries an even cheaper alternative.

I fail to see the problem here. It sounds like a win win situation for the kids in these areas. At a cheaper price, the governments are even more likely to go along with purchasing the systems for the kids in their countries. Hopefully, they will buy even more of them at this cheaper price. Since that is Dr. Negroponte's stated goal, what is the error? Is he just annoyed the someone else is the one to do it? Is he worried that someone may steal some of his spotlight or headlines?
 

jamiepotter

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Well, only Intel fanboys are going to be surprised at this. I think most sane people have realised by now that Intel is a pretty typical corporation, and acts like a pretty typical corporation. It's got a lot of power, and it uses its power in ways that often will run contrary to the preferences of many.

The problem isn't Intel; it's the worldwide acceptance of corporate status, whereby companies are allowed the rights of an individual (a corporation is a legal person), but evade any responsibility. Sensible revision of this legal framework is a necessity (but somehow I think it might not be in certain people's interest... i.e. the people who run the world).
 

Stewartwi

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Let me see if I have your complaint correct...
1) Someone started a program to sell cheap system to third world countries in hopes of raising the computer literacy rate in those areas.
2) Another company had the audacity of offering one of those countries an even cheaper alternative.

I fail to see the problem here. It sounds like a win win situation for the kids in these areas. At a cheaper price, the governments are even more likely to go along with purchasing the systems for the kids in their countries. Hopefully, they will buy even more of them at this cheaper price. Since that is Dr. Negroponte's stated goal, what is the error? Is he just annoyed the someone else is the one to do it? Is he worried that someone may steal some of his spotlight or headlines?

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he wants to be the one in the limelight. Or he's catching some major kickbacks from people to do it and is worrying about his honeydew pot drying out.
 
I am such a cynic. I was wondering how long this would take to happen. When I first heard about the $100 laptop and the One Laptop Per Child effort, I figured it was only a matter of time before some large corporation decided to railroad a true humanitarian effort for their own gain. Shame it had to be Intel

Negroponte is the unwilling collateral damage of big business. I don't gather it's a personal thing against Negroponte, but I can understand why he perceives it that way. Bottom line, it all comes down to numbers, profit, tax write-offs, and winning government favor.
If Negroponte's program is purely humanitarian and only to benefit children, why would for-profit companies pursue the same goal? ...the potential number of kids who could get laptops is over a billion, a fact which has not gone unnoticed by Intel and other hi-tech companies.
And...
To prove that Intel has targeted his machine, Negroponte gave us some documents Intel sent to the government of Nigeria.

When Stahl shows those documents to Barrett, he says, "This is an Intel marketing document – there’s no question about that."

One document outlines the “shortcomings of the One Laptop Per Child approach” and lists the supposedly stronger points of the Classmate.

"So somebody at Intel sees this as direct competition, clearly," Stahl says to the Intel chairman. "Well, someone at Intel was comparing the Classmate pc with another device being offered in the marketplace," Barrett responds. "That’s the way our business works."
Not really, that's the way Intel works.

It's a shame that Intel just can't donate the low cost laptops to Negroponte so he could use his existing network and follow the One Laptop Per Child program. But then again, there's no profit or government favor if the laptops are donated, Intel would be stuck with a substantial tax write-off. In the dash to gain market share and get the Intel brand out into another market niche, the unfortunate losers are going to be the very children Intel intends to help.
 
Yeah . . . I saw it.

Anyone who defends Intel dumping a product below price to put Nicholas Negroponte out of business is lower than whale poop. Craig Barrett looked rather **shifty** when presented with the hard-copy evidence.

It just goes to show you how vicious a corporation can be with their attempts to damage a competitor.

And that really is a cool idea that Negroponte has. Sign me up, Nicholas!
 

Stewartwi

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I don't believe a word out of this guy's mouth and it doesn't have jack to do with Intel. He says there's no profit in it at all but then gets upset when someone else has a cheaper and supposed better laptop for children that smells fishy to me. He says he needs 3 million orders to be able to make them in bulk at 176 dollars a laptop that's $528,000,000 it's easy to see why he's becoming upset with Intel. He's clearly making some money in there somewhere.

Heaven forbid someone like Intel wanting to jump on that bandwagon I mean making money is such an evil thing after all.
 
Let me see if I have your complaint correct...
1) Someone started a program to sell cheap system to third world countries in hopes of raising the computer literacy rate in those areas.
2) Another company had the audacity of offering one of those countries an even cheaper alternative.

I fail to see the problem here. It sounds like a win win situation for the kids in these areas. At a cheaper price, the governments are even more likely to go along with purchasing the systems for the kids in their countries. Hopefully, they will buy even more of them at this cheaper price. Since that is Dr. Negroponte's stated goal, what is the error? Is he just annoyed the someone else is the one to do it? Is he worried that someone may steal some of his spotlight or headlines?

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he wants to be the one in the limelight. Or he's catching some major kickbacks from people to do it and is worrying about his honeydew pot drying out.

You miss the point. The One Laptop Per Laptop effort is not-for-profit. Not-for-profit companies only recoup enough to cover expenses. The laptops are given away to the children, not sold. Intel wants to make a profit on the effort, that is not a win-win for the countries or people's having to pay for them. Dell makes a cheap laptop, why not just tell the 3rd world countries to order one from www.dell.com?!

If you read about the project, Negroponte went to Intel for support and they pretty much told him to go pound sand. Negroponte found alternatives to make the project happen. Now that the project has seen some success and Negroponte has proven that it will work, Intel is attempting to railroad and capitalize on the effort.

Why can't Intel just donate the low cost laptops to the One Chil Per Laptop program? Why are they peddling influence and marketing materials to the same countries Negroponte is working in?

To think Intel's primary motivation is a humanitarian effort is just niave. For Intel it is about profit, government favor, peddling influence, and tax incentives.
 

Stewartwi

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Let me see if I have your complaint correct...
1) Someone started a program to sell cheap system to third world countries in hopes of raising the computer literacy rate in those areas.
2) Another company had the audacity of offering one of those countries an even cheaper alternative.

I fail to see the problem here. It sounds like a win win situation for the kids in these areas. At a cheaper price, the governments are even more likely to go along with purchasing the systems for the kids in their countries. Hopefully, they will buy even more of them at this cheaper price. Since that is Dr. Negroponte's stated goal, what is the error? Is he just annoyed the someone else is the one to do it? Is he worried that someone may steal some of his spotlight or headlines?

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he wants to be the one in the limelight. Or he's catching some major kickbacks from people to do it and is worrying about his honeydew pot drying out.

If you read about the project, Negroponte went to Intel for support and they pretty much told him to go pound sand. Negroponte found alternatives to make the project happen. Now that the project has seen some success and Negroponte has proven that it will work, Intel is attempting to railroad and capitalize on the effort.

Why can't Intel just donate the low cost laptops to the One Chil Per Laptop program? Why are they peddling influence and marketing materials to the same countries Negroponte is working in?

To think Intel's primary motivation is a humanitarian effort is just niave. For Intel it is about profit, government favor, peddling influence, and tax incentives.
Oh no doubt it's about making money just unlike most people here I don't think making money makes someone evil. Let me find out Intel is killing people and doing car bombings or using weapons of mass destruction to make money then I'll care about the company making money. Are they being immoral perhaps but your talking about a half a billion dollar deal someone's feelings is going to get hurt when dealing with that much money and at the end of the day I doubt it's going to be Intel.
 

Slobogob

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Oouh how horribly of them. I suggest changing the title to "Intel kills little children" and don´t forget to post the PR archive footage of a black, starving, nigerian child with fleas on his head...

If i would work for some revolver magazine where big letters equate information, truth and sales i´d hire you in no time.
 

jamiepotter

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No offense, but you're just arbitrarily limiting the frame of the description of someone's actions to what is directly observable. If you don't feed your child properly, for instance, you haven't necessarily "killled" them, but I think nonetheless we can say that your actions are awful.

Now, making money is morally arbitrary, I take it. It's how you make it that matters. If, by 'merely' making money, you systematically hold people back in a state of poverty whereby people will die that otherwise would have lived, I'm not sure why that's somehow far more acceptable than just lining them up and shooting 1 in 5. I'll grant you that Intel haven't done anything quite that bad, but it's still not exactly morally clean, is it?

I recommend 'Lord of War' as an excellent exploration of these issues. I don't know the answers myself, but I like people to think about them.
 

croc

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On 60 Minutes last night (the news show your grandparents watch) - about the initiative to get laptops to children in poor countries.

Here are some quotes:



Nicholas Negroponte, a professor at MIT, had a dream. In it every child on the planet had his own computer. In that way, he figured, children from the most impoverished places – from deserts and jungles and slums could become educated and part of the modern world. Poor kids would have new possibilities.

But lately One Laptop has had to contend with a new challenge: competition. This lab in Sao Paulo is testing two other laptops the Brazilian government is thinking of buying for school children, including one made in India and Negroponte’s biggest competitor: the Classmate by Intel, the giant chip maker.


Intel gave every student in this class in Mexico a Classmate – which Negroponte believes is part of an effort to kill him off.

At a recent lecture at MIT he accused Intel of dumping, of going to the same governments he’s trying to sell to and offering the Classmate below cost.

"Intel should be ashamed of itself," Negroponte says. "It’s just – it’s just shameless."

'nuff said.

"Negroponte believes that you’re trying to drive him out," Stahl told Craig Barrett, Intel’s Chairman of the Board.

... the heart of it is that the One Laptop uses chips made by AMD, Intel’s biggest competitor.

"Intel and AMD fight viciously," Negroponte says." And we’re just sort of caught in the middle."

"Yes, Intel has hurt the mission enormously," Negroponte says.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/20/60minutes/printable2830058.shtml
 
Why can't AMD donate? Fuck it, Intel saw it would work and decide to get in on it. Pardon me for being a cynic.

C'mon...lighten up.
What is AMD’s financial contribution to the One Laptop Per Child project (formerly known as the MIT $100 laptop project)?

AMD has agreed to contribute $2M to help fund development, R&D for future improvements, and grants to help ensure the OLPC laptop reaches those who need it most.
No such admission from Intel. 'Nuff said...
 

Slobogob

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I recommend 'Lord of War' as an excellent exploration of these issues. I don't know the answers myself, but I like people to think about them.

Hollywood and Nicolas Cage aren´t Reporters, Scientists or anything else that even remotely enables them to produce somethng of documetary worth. Watching cartoons would probably be a better source for moral themed topics. :lol:
 

jamiepotter

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Please read what you quote! Notice how I put "Exploration of these issues"? The dispute is not a factual one, so scientists, reporters etc. are irrelevant. The point is that 'merely' making money can be one of the most horrific things a human being can do.
 

Stewartwi

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If Intel is selling these below costs I would think that means they are making them @ a loss which to me just screams big tax write off. No real surprise though.

Yeah I'm sure AMD isn't writing off any of their donations to this guy either.
 

croc

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It's not about the cost of the laptop.... Desktop, whatever. It's the cost of the infrastructure. What would it cost to put every child in sub-saharan Africa online, even at the most basic data rates? ie, 2400 baud modem...

You can give every child in the world a computer fairly cheaply. Bill Gates could do it all by himself. But it they don't have the power to run it off of, and if they do don't have a way to interconnect, then its no better than a good solar powered scientific calculator.

That's the crux of the problem, so quit whinging about amd vs. intel and the poor kiddies.... Bring in the big guns, the Ciscos, Junipers, SonyEricssons, Nokias, etc. and get a meshed comms network that is useful and cheap.

Without a comms system, your most powerful cpu is useless.

My 2p...
 

Stewartwi

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If Intel is selling these below costs I would think that means they are making them @ a loss which to me just screams big tax write off. No real surprise though.

Yeah I'm sure AMD isn't writing off any of their donations to this guy either.

Umm read the whole post before you comment. I said AMD is probably getting one as well for the money it has donated. :roll:

You didn't say anything about that. I can't help it if you edited your post to reflect that. I did read your whole post at the time and commented. No harm no foul though.
 

1Tanker

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I think it's all BS. As if these kids (in third-world countries) need a computer....they need food, shelter, and medications/vaccinations. $130 would probably feed a kid for 6months-a year. :x :x
 
No offense . . . but this is the point.

Using open-source sustainable efficient technology to educate billions of children in the third world.

The more orders that are generated further drives down the cost allowing for the production and distribution of more technology.

The *idea* of a profit or promotional motive introduced into the mission of OLPC is so . . . Intel . . . .
 

Brawly44

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I tend to be somewhat of a cynic, in that a persons "good intentions" may also hold a "hidden agenda". That being said, let's give Mr. Negroponte the benefit of the doubt, if he indeed rests his ambitions on humanitarian efforts to help poor children further their education by offering the $100 laptop - Kudo's to Mr. Negroponte.

If Intel had the same intent as Negroponte, the seemingly obvious solution would be to contact Mr. Negroponte and begin discussions on "how does Intel become involved with your cause - we find it has merit and would provide you our product to help you manufacture the system much cheaper".

I am being overly simplistic in my theory, but it is pretty obvious that Intel's interest in One Laptop per Child is less than charitable. There is an agenda that Intel has, and yes the end result will be too push Negroponte out. The great sadness is that a large powerful corporation is targeting someone else's idea - or better yet dream to further some agenda, with the end result being the ruin of a single persons charitable idea. Much the way that a High School bully steals the 5th graders lunch money.

WOW, what a world we live in.