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Intel Intros 3-Series Chipsets with FSB1333 and DDR3

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May 21, 2007 1:12:36 PM

Intel will launch its beefed-up P35 chipset next month, which will support yet-to-be-launched 45-nm processors at FSB1333 speeds, DDR3 memory and an improved ICH Southbridge. We have all the benchmarks today.
May 21, 2007 2:11:05 PM

Sounds like a really nice option for us in the performance mainstream market!

I was just about to (finally!) build a C2D rig for myself and was ACTUALLY considering nvidia's 680SLI as my chipset of choice *geez. Now, I'll just hold on for a few more weeks and wait for this new puppy to arrive (in DDR2 form, obviously). Asus P5K Deluxe Wi-Fi edition is looking more and more tempting by the minute!! :) 

Anybody knows when these will actually SHOW UP in stores? :oops: 
May 21, 2007 2:32:02 PM

Some sites already have a few P35 motherboards shipping out.

Google Product Search

Type P35 motherboards and you should get some results :wink:

I think I might wait for the X38 chipset, then give my parents my current motherboard, CPU, and RAM. That, or I'll turn it into a file server or something.

Other than that, can't wait to see what the X38 chipset is capable of.
Related resources
May 21, 2007 3:07:14 PM

But I hate the way the computer industry dribbles out the technology at premium price. You gotta know they must be at least 3 chipsets ahead in design ready to go - but sadly it's all about the money $$$
Funny my 875chipset M.B. with 2 gigs ram and a nvidia 7900 still runs ANY game on the market today - just fine! I jumped OFF the gotta have the latest greatest bandwagon and never looked back.
May 21, 2007 3:11:19 PM

THG, please get a P5B-Deluxe so you can hit 2000Mhz FSB.
May 21, 2007 3:48:07 PM

Quote:
ICH6 (82801FB) - 652 balls


Hrm. Perhaps revising this to "BGA" would be more appropriate...

Even if they are solder "balls," they're still referred to as pins by all of the EE's I know.
May 21, 2007 4:15:51 PM

I agree with Eurasianman. I'm gonna wait for the X38. I was holding off until the P35, but once again there seems to be a new tech around the corner. Man I hate the waiting game!!!!! You can wait indefinately, but as I am in no rush (my PC is a monster), I can afford to.

When are they expecting to release the X38? Any idea for date?

I think a X38 with $266 Quad core will be lethal. I could wait till Sep, but no later. Need to get the GF on WoW so we can get through the winter, LOL!
May 21, 2007 4:20:10 PM

Quote:
Intel will launch its beefed-up P35 chipset next month, which will support yet-to-be-launched 45-nm processors at FSB1333 speeds, DDR3 memory and an improved ICH Southbridge. We have all the benchmarks today.


How about application benchmarks? According to Anandtech the new memory controller offers improved performance even when ignoring the faster FSB and memory speeds.
May 21, 2007 4:20:52 PM

I just read on another post that the X38 will only support DDR3. Can anyone confirm this? If that is the case, I might as well go with the P35. RAM manufacturers like to gouge (saw that with the move to Core 2). Stuff that story.

DDR3 will be a rip off for some time, with similar performance to DDR2 initially. The X38 mobos will be overpriced, and so will the DDR3.

Not sure if that will be worth it. Any idea what the X38 will REALLY offer?
May 21, 2007 4:38:18 PM

The X38 will be $$$ were the P35 is not. I have read that thing about the DDR3 as well. I would think that it will be up to MB manufacturers though. More grounded information would be great.
May 21, 2007 4:56:58 PM

<rant>

Not really the focus of our attentions but once again we have a new DDR standard which gives greater clock speeds... but at much higher latencies. Makes you wonder what the point is?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but DDR at 400Mhz CL2 wasn't bettered in performance until DDR2 at 800Mhz CL4 which is where the standard officially stops and non-ratified modules become very expensive. Now we have DDR3 at CL8 which logically needs to operate at 1600Mhz just to hit similar performance levels or something like DD3 at 1333Mhz CL6 to slightly exceed the performance level that's been around for quite some time.

Anyway, my point is that this all looks to me like some cynical people getting good marketing numbers to look better on paper... "1333Mhz DDR3 RAM! Wow, this must be so much faster than what I've got"
Uninformed consumers will always go for the newer, with the bigger numbers but your typical system builder will always go for the cheaper, higher latency modules and the end result is a slower system.

I wouldn't put anyone off buying the new Intel chipsets, I also understand that memory performance isn't as much an issue for Core 2 processors due to their cache but at the same time I'd advise most to stick with decent DDR2 until DDR3 has it's clock speed ramped up or latencies are lowered to something reasonable.

</rant>
May 21, 2007 5:09:36 PM

When are the new P35 mobo reviews coming out?
May 21, 2007 5:24:08 PM

Probably in the next few weeks. We are nearly there - just hang in there guys.

I really wanna know if X38 supports DDR2, cause that will make the difference between buy now or wait 6 months. A big diffs.

RAM - dont bother until prices are cheap and timings are tight (~4). Its a scam.
May 21, 2007 5:28:33 PM

Quote:
Not sure if that will be worth it. Any idea what the X38 will REALLY offer?


PCI Express 2.0. But I believe that video cards aren't even close to maxing out the bandwidth already available on PCIe 1.0.
May 21, 2007 6:13:17 PM

Quote:
PCI Express 2.0. But I believe that video cards aren't even close to maxing out the bandwidth already available on PCIe 1.0.


Kind of like the whole AGP 4x -> AGP 8x didn't really show much increase in performance :tongue:

Btw, Fishboi, what's wrong with your current rig? It's not much different than mine :tongue:

The only reason I'd see jumping onto the X38 wagon is if the numbers are more than 50% increase (in comparison to my motherboard, 975X) and if they could somewhere allow the mobo to run Crossfire and/or SLI! Otherwise... *pulls pockets inside out to reveal lint* yea... this is what being a tech geek does to you... it dries your pockets out :oops: 
May 21, 2007 6:21:05 PM

Being a techie is one of the worst addictions out there, but its so much fun LOL!!! No, the GF needs a new system so we can figure something out, and I can get a better rig (DX10 card etc).

I just realized something - anyone remember about the 2:1 RAM multiplier. WTF is the point of DDR3 if the FSBs dont reach 600Mhz and beyond ????????? Not sure about the RAM dividers, but if I set mine out of the 2:1 ratio on the P5W DH, it actually decreases my theoretical bandwidth (dont ask why, I dont know either - Sandra says so).

Look at my sig. You can see my DDR2 800Mhz isnt even being used! DDR3 would be a total waste of money until the mobos catch up (probably another year to 1.5 years).

I think I'm gonna go with the P35 in September (3 months on market to work out bugs). I then need to decide between Kentsfield and Yorkfield.

1) Anyone know about release date and pricing on YORKFIELD?
May 21, 2007 6:24:06 PM

BTW: Q6600 (Kentsfield) = $266 on July 22nd. Awesome.

Yorkfield (45nm version of the Q6600) will be better (temps, 1333Mhz FSB - not sure about anything else), but any idea on price and release date????
May 21, 2007 6:31:53 PM

Has anything further been mentioned about booting your PC from a flash drive? I know Microsoft was planning to load the OS from a solid state drive in the future so that boot times are very low. Any idea on this?

Any idea how this will affect our Fall 2007 builds?
May 21, 2007 6:34:16 PM

Really wish there were more people on THG so that the chances of getting people with the latest stuff are increased. Most of us are poor like me and have to be patient with new tech. Wish we could hear from guys that actually have this hardware so that we dont screw up our hard earned dollars (ie. me going with the 975 vs the 965 etc).
May 21, 2007 6:36:29 PM

Hey Eurasia, from your link, the Asus P5K = $143. The Gigabyte DS3P = $245.

WTF???????? I thought Asus carried the enthusiast boards.
May 21, 2007 6:39:28 PM

i was just about to post the same thread
but it is not a competition
what stirred my attention in this article was
Quote:
On the other hand, the upcoming X38 chipset will offer more goodies that are worth waiting for: PCI Express 2.0 and even better overclocking potential (beyond the FSB1900 speeds that we hit without much tweaking) are must-haves for enthusiasts.
May 21, 2007 6:43:31 PM

Quote:
Hey Eurasia, from your link, the Asus P5K = $143. The Gigabyte DS3P = $245.

WTF???????? I thought Asus carried the enthusiast boards.


$143 is for the P5K vanilla. The P5K deluxe is listed there at $225. The P5K vanilla seems like a good value mobo....
May 21, 2007 6:55:55 PM

Quote:
PCI Express 2.0. But I believe that video cards aren't even close to maxing out the bandwidth already available on PCIe 1.0.


Kind of like the whole AGP 4x -> AGP 8x didn't really show much increase in performance :tongue:



I think that the best part of PCI 2.0 is increased electricity capacity. When we now have to use even two extra power connectors to our GPU, PCI 2.0 will provide more juice to GPU tha PCI 1.0.
So we don't see speed upgrade, we will see power upgrade.
May 21, 2007 6:56:09 PM

I see no reason to upgrade as long as I can run Penryn on my 965 DQ6 (Rev 3).

5% isn't worth the $400 price tag to upgrade ($200 mobo $200 RAM).

I'll be a little upset if my rev 3 board (which is s'posed to support 1333 MHz chips, which may or may not be 45nm) doesn't support Penryn.
May 21, 2007 7:17:42 PM

does anyone know if it will support 2 16x PCIE lanes for CrossFire? the 975x runs at 8x/8x in CF and with GPU's taking more and more bandwidth :\ just wondering
May 21, 2007 8:37:42 PM

No idea bud. From what I've read, Penry and Yorksfield are supposed to come out in Q4'07 / Q1'08. I'm not sure if I can wait that long.

I think the Q6600 will have to be it. Anyone know if that chip will work fine with the P35s?

Thanks,
May 21, 2007 9:00:16 PM

Quote:
I see no reason to upgrade as long as I can run Penryn on my 965 DQ6 (Rev 3).

5% isn't worth the $400 price tag to upgrade ($200 mobo $200 RAM).

I'll be a little upset if my rev 3 board (which is s'posed to support 1333 MHz chips, which may or may not be 45nm) doesn't support Penryn.


Sorry bud, but just because it supports the FSB doesn't mean anything. My motherboard can handle 1400 FSB (tested :oops: ), but it is "unofficial".

But anyways, I was reading up... it all depends on the VRM. Penryn is on a 45 nm, which requires a VRM update. Some, and I mean SOME 965 motherboards might have the latest VRMs to support the chip. Your chances are slim. Hence, the point of Intel's 3 series.

Just like how some Intel 945 chipsets can support Conroe. It all depends on what VRMs is on the mobo.

When Penryn gets released, motherboard manufactures will more than likely release a list of motherboards that will support it.

I'm crossing my fingers hard that my motherboard can support it. If not, I just found myself my new HTPC :tongue:
May 21, 2007 9:02:44 PM

Quote:
No idea bud. From what I've read, Penry and Yorksfield are supposed to come out in Q4'07 / Q1'08. I'm not sure if I can wait that long.

I think the Q6600 will have to be it. Anyone know if that chip will work fine with the P35s?

Thanks,


Should. The article (perhaps it was from another website) claimed that the new chipsets will support the core architecture, however, they will no longer support the netburst (pentium 4 5xx, 6xx, 8xx, 9xx, series, etc.) anymore. Unless the motherboard manufacture themselves decide to let it be.

Someone feel free to jump in if I'm wrong about the Pentium 4 CPUs not being supported.
May 21, 2007 9:17:26 PM

I got my 965P's up to ~1650 MHz (XMS2@4-4-4-15). I run them both at 1600MHz currently stable @ 4-4-4-12/1.9V (Factory ratings).

Version 3 of the DQ6 supposedly has 'offical' support for 1333 MHz. Dunno if this includes a VRM update.

This was back when 1333 MHZ was supposedly 65nm, but I've heard different things since then.
May 21, 2007 9:24:13 PM

Eurasianman, we built our PCs at the same time (I remember your awesome cooling mod). When can we expect to hear if our mobos will run Penryn or not? I've read that the Q6600 does not OC well on this mobo. P965 is the way to go (today). P35 will be the way after June 4th.

I'm wondering how Q6600 will perform on the P35.
May 21, 2007 9:37:12 PM

Why doesn't Q6600 OC well on 965P?
May 21, 2007 9:58:07 PM

Anandtech has the following to say about X38:

Gain additional performance benefits with chipset overspeed protection removed

Does that mean we can't OC the P35??
May 21, 2007 10:01:34 PM

Great teaser guys,what really takes my eye is that gigabyte mobo.this beast looks like it supports ddr2 and ddr3(check in picture).I've found it on overclockers.co.uk @ £105.74.for the support i'll have this.great forum thnx :D 
May 21, 2007 10:28:38 PM

My board, the 975X will not OC the Q6600 very well (has a big black hole again). Read that Anandtech article about the Q6600. Its all there.
May 22, 2007 12:48:03 AM

Does Tom's actually have their articles go through a review process anymore, or does someone just slap together what they heard on the street corner and post it?

Glaring error on page 9 of the article:

Quote:
Pick a name for your RAID array and select the RAID level and stripe size. The larger the stripes, the better your sequential read or write performance; but remember that storing tiny files will always utilize at least one full stripe (64 kB in this example).


First of all, with modern hard drive controllers, stripe size has much less to do with performance than it used to. I'd be surprised if you could tell any more than a few % difference in performance between 64K and 128K stripe sizes on a RAID 0 with the ICH7R/8R/9R. And no matter what, the effect that stripe size has on performance is highly dependent on the application. It would probably make zero difference for Windows boot times, for example.

Second, the notion that tiny files use more slack with higher stripe sizes is just laughable. Obviously the author doesn't know much about how RAID works because this is flatly incorrect. Slack is dependent on the file system cluster size, not the RAID stripe size. They are two completely different, unrelated things.

For an enthusiast site that is supposed to post well-informed articles, the quality is lacking and going downhill.
May 22, 2007 4:22:52 AM

Was planning on getting a quad-core sometime... this just makes the upgrade even sweeter since I'm planning a RAID 5.

-mcg
May 22, 2007 4:42:50 AM

Quote:
My board, the 975X will not OC the Q6600 very well (has a big black hole again). Read that Anandtech article about the Q6600. Its all there.


Did you already burn your CPU? :tongue:

Only one way to test this motherboard against that CPU and that's to get your hand on one lol.

If I get one this summer, I will let you know how the process goes.

IMHO, I think the 975X still has a bit of juice left to be squeezed *crosses fingers*
May 22, 2007 6:09:19 AM

Quote:
Does Tom's actually have their articles go through a review process anymore, or does someone just slap together what they heard on the street corner and post it?

For an enthusiast site that is supposed to post well-informed articles, the quality is lacking and going downhill.


Was that your first clue? LOL :roll:

There's a female ditz editor in chief who doesn't edit the articles...

There's Ben, who's more frat boy than a geek and seems to be there to entertain the ditz...

They seem to be the leaders of Tom's...they keep popping up everywhere.
May 22, 2007 9:50:35 AM

Quote:
Any idea what the X38 will REALLY offer?

PCI Express 2.0.
P35 already offers PCI Express 2.0 The review gets it wrong at the end when they say it is an X38 only feature.
May 22, 2007 12:44:50 PM

Quote:
does anyone know if it will support 2 16x PCIE lanes for CrossFire? the 975x runs at 8x/8x in CF and with GPU's taking more and more bandwidth :\ just wondering

X38 will offer x16/x16 Crossfire, I think. P35 is x16/x4, same as P965.
May 22, 2007 1:41:04 PM

How sure are we that the X38 will allow Crossfire since ATI is now owned by AMD.

I remember, not to long ago, reading up about how Intel didn't think they would support ATI Crossfire anymore since the acquisition by AMD.
May 22, 2007 1:47:23 PM

Quote:
Does Tom's actually have their articles go through a review process anymore, or does someone just slap together what they heard on the street corner and post it?

For an enthusiast site that is supposed to post well-informed articles, the quality is lacking and going downhill.


Was that your first clue? LOL :roll:

There's a female ditz editor in chief who doesn't edit the articles...

There's Ben, who's more frat boy than a geek and seems to be there to entertain the ditz...

They seem to be the leaders of Tom's...they keep popping up everywhere.

That's why I just graze the THG articles, but actually read the Anandtech Artices!
May 22, 2007 2:03:23 PM

Quote:
Was that your first clue? LOL :roll:


Hehe. No, quality has been sorely lacking for a long time. But usually the lack of quality is in terms of insufficient testing (i.e. not a wide range of products, no tests for factors that the author chose not to focus on in the article, etc.) For example, a hard drive review that tests transfer rate and access time, but no mention of noise or temperature. Or excludes recent models of a major manufacturer because "none were available at press time".

But it's way worse than that when blatantly incorrect information is presented as fact.
May 22, 2007 2:10:04 PM

Eurasianman, let's you and I put together a wish list closer to the time. We've got the same need for top-notch components, while at the same time being cheap bastards. The bang for your buck rule is the order of the day.

I'm waiting to get some more news on the real diffs between P35 and X38. Dual cards these days are pointless - a single card outperforms. If thats all the X38 offers, I might as well go with P35 and not get ripped off.

Remember if you/we do go with the Q6600, remember to get the B3? (latest) version. A lot more heat efficient (something like a 40% drop in temps or something). Cant remember where I read that so dont quote me on it.

Yorksfield will take too long to come out. Not sure if I can wait that long.

Chat later,
May 22, 2007 2:40:13 PM

Heh... I might need to go Crossfire though if I get that 24" Dell monitor this summer :twisted:

To be honest though, I think playing the waiting game is what will kill the majority of people who built a new rig last summer around Intel's Core 2 Duo.

I'll speak on the behalf of myself on saying that I do hope that the VRMs on this motherboard will be sufficient enough to support Yorkfield.

On side note, I wonder if there is a mod to where you can remove the old VRMs and replace them with new ones :D 

If that's the case, that'd be a lot cheaper. Then again, it all depends on the end user. To some, those extra 16 lines in crossfire mean a lot more than to others.

Only time will tell.

*pulls out the junk food, sodas, video games, and lazy boy chair*
Time for the waiting game! :tongue:

x.x
May 22, 2007 2:44:26 PM

So true. Not sure if this helps, but here is a list of Asus boards that support 1333. Still to be determined though if Yorkfield will work (Penryn is the mobile solution BTW).

http://event.asus.com/mb/fsb1333/#QA
May 22, 2007 2:55:05 PM

Eurasianman,

What VRM version are the P35s using?
May 22, 2007 2:57:23 PM

Fixed :tongue:

Thanks for the link. Heh, I found that my motherboard supports it the other way =p ( 333 x 9 = 2.99 GHz w/ 1333 FSB :twisted: )

Intel is just "refreshing" the Core 2 Duo line up by modifying the FSB on the chips to take advantage of the 1333 MHz FSB, right? Still same process(65nm) and core (Conroe/Allendale/Kentsfield), correct?
May 22, 2007 3:00:03 PM

This guy knows his stuff. I read his articles for over a year now. Not good:
http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=154

Intel's Next Extreme Series Motherboard: DX38BT Bone Trail

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The successor the the highly successful D975XBX2 (Bad Axe 2) will be DX38BT (Bone Trail). Be aware that Penryn/Wolfdale/Yorkfield requires VRM 11.1 specification support; this means that EVERYONE (unless you are smart enough to know how to mod your board yourself... )will need to buy a new motherboard to support 45nm CPUs from Intel. This could be a simple revision refresh (as we saw when Conroe was released in June 2006) or an entirely new model based on the next-generation Intel 3-series chipsets.

DX38BT Product Highlights:
Based on the next-generation X38 Express chipset (MCH)
Intel Duo/Quad/Extreme (dual and quad) Core support at up to 1333MHz FSB, dual channel DDR2/DDR3 memory support with Fast Memory Access technology
Intel ICH9 southbridge, 12 USB ports, supporting up to 6 additional PCI Express 1.1(a) lanes [physics card upgrade support], GBit LAN
2x PCI Express 2.0 16x ports (backwards compatable with PCI Express 1.1 specification), Crossfire is supported
6x SATA 3.0GB/s ports, Intel Maxtrix Storage Technology (RAID)
Intel High Definition (HD) Technology
Full overclocking/overvoltage options via BIOS and NEW Windows GUI utility for overclocking, including auto-tune capabilities
-FCG
May 22, 2007 3:01:15 PM

Agh!

It was somewhere in the article... either on Toms Hardware or Anandtech. Can't remember exactly. I just know the P35s have VRM updates to support Yorksfield.

Was sort of Intel's point of releasing the new chipset, other than updating their own ICH and trying to increase the performance across the board.

Quote:
VRM 11.1 is now going to be replacing the already newer VRM that was required for Conroe
- pulled from another thread.
!