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not a total n00b, but i need a second head...

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May 25, 2007 3:23:46 AM

'ello everyone,

the names root, and i need soem help. my love affair with computers is rather large, and i'm getting up the funds to build my first custom system. i'll be building a desktop mostly built for gaming, music, and recording. i've gotten a good idea for the parts i need, but i need soem more experienced opinions to make sure i havent made any errors before i drop the cash and pick up my screw driver. i'm doing all my shopping off tigerdirect.com, and i think i have a good lineup of parts. in advance, i know i dont have any fans picked out..

so heres the parts ihave picked out:

barebone tower kit- ultra uv atx mid tower case, Intel D945GCCRL Intel Socket 775 MicroATX Motherboard, Intel Celeron D 360 3.46GHz OEM Processor, Ultra X-Connect 400-Watt Titanium UV Clear Sides Power Supply

graphics card: EVGA GeForce 7600 GS 512mb

sound card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Audio

RAM memory: US Modular 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 533MHz Memory x2

hard drive: Seagate / Barracuda 7200.10 / 250GB / 7200 / 8MB / NCQ / Serial ATA-300 / OEM / Hard Drive

wireless net: Linksys WMP54GS PCI Wireless Network Adapter - 54Mbps, 802.11g

so have i missed anything?

More about : total n00b head

May 25, 2007 3:38:19 AM

Where are you planning on buying this stuff from?

Stay away from everything Celeron! In this day in age they're overpriced POS's. A low end AMD X2 or C2D will demolish any Celeron.

The chipset for the motherboard you picked out is a dead. With that mobo the build has no future.

What's your budget for this pc? I have a bunch of ideas on how to improve this build, but I need a budget first.
May 25, 2007 3:40:52 AM

buying it from tigerdirect.com..

my budget is 600, and i'm already pushing it. i'm justlooking for something ot get me by, its not like i'm going ot be playing WoW till 4 in the morning. the motherboard and celeron processor come with the case. unless you can point me to a place that has really good prices and really good kits, its all i got to work with. as a side note, i'm trying ot stick with intel, i could never stand amd processors.
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May 25, 2007 4:01:16 AM

i'm staying away from things with the rebates becuause i probably wont be buying all this within the next month. i'm also a big fan of nvidia cards,and in theory, wouldnt the 512mb one i originally picked out be cheaper and a bit more powerful?and you can feel free ot use any site you like, i'm open to all suggestiosn that will save this poor musician some hard cash.
May 25, 2007 4:02:04 AM

I hope rootnote listens to you, that's good advice.
May 25, 2007 4:08:31 AM

One of the reasons I hate Tigerdirect, the things that look cheaper are really just items with rebates. Newegg is just cheap.

G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83

No rebate, it's just cheap.

Unless you're gaming at a high res vram doesnt matter much, the 1950pro is much faster then the 7600gs.

Oh, and thanks Zorg. :) 
May 25, 2007 4:16:51 AM

apt403, thank you, i am now throwing my original idea out the window.

so with your preferred newegg, minus the case+cd drive, a list of all needed part in my budget:

Intel E4300 - $114.50 -processor
Gigabyte DS3 - $130 -motherboard
Corsair 2x1gb - $70 - ram
430w Antec NeoHE - $80 -power supply
Sapphire 1950pro - $145 -graphics

what about a hard drive, sound card, and wireless net?
May 25, 2007 4:37:48 AM

Damn, I knew I was forgetting something!

I put that build together in hast when I read your edited post saying no AMD. My original list was an AMD box. So I will now proceed to tweak my own list.

Instead of the DS3 get the MSI Neo-F, it'll save you about $40.

For the psu get this instead. It has virtually the same amount of power, the quality is about the same, and it's cheaper.

That's about it for the tweaking.

Don't worry about the sound card, the onboard sound is fine. As for the wifi card, do you really need it? I perfer a good old ethernet cable myself...

For the optical drive get a NEC 7170A, the HDD you picked out is fine.

So, here's the new build.

Intel E4300 - $114.50
MSI Neo-F - $85
G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83
Sapphire 1950pro - $145
450w FSP Group PSU - $58
NEC 7170A - $31
250gb Seagate HDD - $66

Total - 582.50
May 25, 2007 4:41:50 AM

Do you have an operating system and if not did you figure that into your budget? The bare bones system you mentioned at first puts most of your money in the hard drive, sound card and under powered video card and leaves little else for the things that really make your system.

Take the system apt403 pieced together and add a hard drive to it. The drive you specified was $69.99 at Tiger Direct and is $66.99 at Newegg just to give an example. As for the sound card your motherboard has onboard sound which you can use until you can save for a dedicated sound card. As for the wireless card, what router do you have, do you need a wireless card to access the internet or can you use a wired connection.

Bottom line is absolutely do not get the system you thought of first. If the system apt403 spec'd out for you is a little too much or if you have different needs we can help but with that other one your paying for old obsolete and discontinued technology.

Edit: Post above me was made while I was typing. I just thought that if he wasn't using Vista he really doesn't need 2gb of RAM, a 1gb stick would be sufficiant.
May 25, 2007 4:54:32 AM

ok, everyone, lets take this monment to breathe.

ok.

as of now, i do have a OS, and for now, i'll be putting XP on it, but i plan to upgrade to vista in a year(when 3/4 of the bugs are fixed), so i'm hugging that 2gb of RAM.

as for a wireless card, yes i do need one, badly. my entire house, all 4 computers, are networked off a linksys wireless b router becuase i live in a 157 year old house, and all that cable would drive the historical people nuts.

so the new build is:

Intel E4300 - $114.50
MSI Neo-F - $85
G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83
Sapphire 1950pro - $145
450w FSP Group PSU - $58
NEC 7170A - $31
250gb Seagate HDD - $66

now i was shopping for cases, and found one i happened to like, and it coems with a 450w psu, would this do: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
May 25, 2007 5:05:11 AM

I looked at their site and I would tend to shy away from a included PSU when they don't mention the brand or specs on it.
May 25, 2007 5:11:58 AM

No specs on the site? Wow...

Newegg has a picture of the label, it has a single +12v rail @ 14a. So it doesnt have enough power for the system anyway.
May 25, 2007 5:14:29 AM

ok no nix on the included power supply cases. and i wont need a cd/dvd drive as i have one salvaged from a old pc, so the new, new list is:

Intel E4300 - $114.50
MSI Neo-F - $85
G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83
Sapphire 1950pro - $145
450w FSP Group PSU - $58
250gb Seagate HDD - $66
linksys wireless g - $55

Total - 606.50

so i can probably scower the 2-50 range for a case, becuase i have ot buy a monitor too(already have one picked out, $150 17" widescreen lcd)

a new idea, i could salvage the case the cd/dvd drive came in and save $50 as long as the motherboard fits right?
May 25, 2007 5:17:25 AM

That list looks really good I think you'll be very impressed at what $600 can buy you. Good luck.
May 25, 2007 5:43:04 AM

Hey Andy,

Nice to see your moving on to building your own computer. It's a fun hobby, glad to see someone new pursuing it! Anyways, on to your build. I've been building computers for a year, and I've found some sites that are much better than www.tigerdirect.com. Tigerdirect is good sometimes when you get deals from them, but for the most part, I tend to stay away from them due to inflated prices on shipping, and products in general. A lot of users here will point you in the direction of a very good site called www.newegg.com. It's a very good site with low prices, and amazing customer service unless something goes wrong. Another good site is www.zipzoomfly.com, although not on par with the service from Newegg, but their prices are definately cheap, sometimes cheaper than Newegg!

Another thing I tend to stay away from, are the barebone deals from them. I understand they may be cheaper, but they are always cheaper for a reason. Most of the motherboards and CPUs are generations behind, even for people with lower budgets. Anyways, off from the boring stuff.

Anyways, here's a list I've compiled for 600$. I've done this a couple time for some friends.

CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... - 97$

The Athlon X2 4200+ For socket AM2. This is a good, solid dual-core processor. The socket AM2 will provide you with future upgradability for the future, in case you want to.

Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The Asus M2V Socket AM2 - Looks like a good solid motherboard for about 70-ish dollars. Provides up to 8 gigs of RAM [Doubtfull that you'll use it.], and a PCI-express slot, which is the standard for todays graphics cards.

RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Transcend JETRAM. Not a well known brand, but it will have to do for your needs. Comes with a Lifetime Limited warranty, though you probably won'ot use it. Has some good reviews on Newegg too. Cheap for 2 gigs of Dual channel RAM too.

CD/DVD Writer - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Lite-ON generic DVD burner. Just something to go on with your PC. Pretty much a must need.

Hard Drive - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Seagate 7200.10 250 GB with Perpendicular Recording technology, SATA 3.0 GB. A really fast hard drive with the new perpendicular technology. SATA is quickly becoming the standard for hard drives.

Video Card - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

eVGA 7600 GT. 120$. Good card for the price. eVGA over the other brands because they just have EXCELLENT technical support, 24/7, on all days of the year, and their service is excellent.

Power Supply - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Antec Smart Power 2.0 500 watt. Enough power for your system. Antec is known to have good, solid power supplies.


That leaves you with about 50-60$ for a case. This is assuming you of course have the operating system. If not, you can downgrade your CPU to a 3600+ for about 40$, saving you about 60$, and you can find cheaper power supplies.


Hope these provide you with enough of a basic outlook on what to buy.

Edit:

Ah, I realized there were a bunch of responses. I didn't realize you didn't need a case, and some of the other parts. Apt's list looks perfect for your needs, and is more powerful than mine. The Intel build will definately be more powerful.
May 25, 2007 6:26:26 AM

Theres always the option of dropping 1 Gig of ram and picking up a wireless card, and adding another Gig down the road.
May 25, 2007 6:28:21 AM

Lets's see if we can knock it down some.
First the $13 wi-fi cards are fine, I have 2 of them.
There are deals to be found on gfx cards, always seeing a good one for $99. Fry's and Circuit City will have one at least once a month.
Yes most cases will work unless it was from a PC-maker like Dell or Compac.
There is a little, and if you take some time, you will find deals on everything.
May 25, 2007 12:32:50 PM

Quote:
apt403, thank you, i am now throwing my original idea out the window.

so with your preferred newegg, minus the case+cd drive, a list of all needed part in my budget:

Intel E4300 - $114.50 -processor
Gigabyte DS3 - $130 -motherboard
Corsair 2x1gb - $70 - ram
430w Antec NeoHE - $80 -power supply
Sapphire 1950pro - $145 -graphics

what about a hard drive, sound card, and wireless net?


You don't have the HD from you old system you can use temporarily? I like the above system with a cheap WIFI card, as per alcattle. I was going to suggest the SLK3000B case with out the truepower PS, but it appears they don't sell it anymore, at least I can't find it. The truepower PSs had some problems. Maybe you can call antec and ask them where you can get it. It is sbout $50-$60and it works well for me. I also don't like the FSP 450W, everyone recommends them, but looking at Newegg reviews it appears they have their own problems.

@all, Yes I know you can't rely on Newegg reviews but these PS failures seemed legitimate. read the reviews and post you opinion.
May 25, 2007 1:04:22 PM

I counted about 15 bad reviews that looked legit, that's pretty good out of 115 reviews. 87 of 'em giving the psu 5 stars.
May 25, 2007 1:26:49 PM

I know that is not a true percentage of the ones sold but 13% is still a little scary. I just looked at the Neo HE430 and it appears to have even more bad reviews. I thought that the only Antec PSs that were really suspect were the smartpower. I might have to get away from Antec PSs all together. I guess you need to be in the +$100-125 min. range, which I have always recommended, to get the failure rates down. I guess for a budget build you just throw the dice.
May 25, 2007 1:49:33 PM

do not get the Antec Smart Power Series. they suck...

personal experience
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2007 1:57:52 PM

Quote:
ok no nix on the included power supply cases. and i wont need a cd/dvd drive as i have one salvaged from a old pc, so the new, new list is:

Intel E4300 - $114.50
MSI Neo-F - $85
G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83
Sapphire 1950pro - $145
450w FSP Group PSU - $58
250gb Seagate HDD - $66
linksys wireless g - $55

Total - 606.50



Just starting reading here, but hey root that's a pretty solid system for $600. Everyone, as usual came back with some great suggestions. I see some people are suggesting the 7600gt, but for my money I would stick with the 1950 pro. This rig is easily twice the system you had originally picked out, and will be around for a good while to upgrade when have a few extra $$$'s.
May 25, 2007 2:00:36 PM

Quote:
The case will work fine, but the PSU won't. Raidmax power supplies pretty low quality to begin with, and bundled power supplies are usually old, lowend stock a company just wants to get rid of.


I disagree. My Raidmax Aurora has been healthy and strong since day one, powering 4 HDD, 1900xtx and a few other things..

And I'm yet to have an OEM PSU in a case fail, ever. I've built 5 comps in last 2 years (all using supplied psu, cept mine which i upgraded from later cuz of the 1900xtx) and all are still running fine. Might just be that I'm getting lucky though :D  Having a nice PSU is generally only critical IMO when the user plans on getting a big VGA and/or overclocking. Although there are some company's PSU's that I would definitely shy away from...>.<
May 25, 2007 2:00:57 PM

Quote:
ok no nix on the included power supply cases. and i wont need a cd/dvd drive as i have one salvaged from a old pc, so the new, new list is:

Intel E4300 - $114.50
MSI Neo-F - $85
G. Skill 2x 1gb - $83
Sapphire 1950pro - $145
450w FSP Group PSU - $58
250gb Seagate HDD - $66
linksys wireless g - $55

Total - 606.50



Just starting reading here, but hey root that's a pretty solid system for $600. Everyone, as usual came back with some great suggestions. I see some people are suggesting the 7600gt, but for my money I would stick with the 1950 pro. This rig is easily twice the system you had originally picked out, and will be around for a good while to upgrade when have a few extra $$$'s.

Save some cash and get a cheap 7900GS, they are amazing value now

just check out the Great deals thread in my sig.

the XFX 7900GS XXX Edition for $135 is great value as is the BFG 7900GS for $100.

Buy one they rock.
May 25, 2007 2:02:12 PM

Quote:
The case will work fine, but the PSU won't. Raidmax power supplies pretty low quality to begin with, and bundled power supplies are usually old, lowend stock a company just wants to get rid of.


I disagree. My Raidmax Aurora has been healthy and strong since day one, powering 4 HDD, 1900xtx and a few other things..

And I'm yet to have an OEM PSU in a case fail, ever. I've built 5 comps in last 2 years (all using supplied psu, cept mine which i upgraded from later cuz of the 1900xtx) and all are still running fine. Might just be that I'm getting lucky though :D  Having a nice PSU is generally only critical IMO when the user plans on getting a big VGA and/or overclocking. Although there are some company's PSU's that I would definitely shy away from...>.<

lucky bastard...
May 25, 2007 3:31:49 PM

Quote:
i have ot buy a monitor too(already have one picked out, $150 17" widescreen lcd)


Don't know what your needs are, but you could save some serious cash if you get a CRT from eBay. They go for like $20. But you'll have to find one in your area to go pick it up for that price.
May 25, 2007 3:41:27 PM

i really do need the lcd as my desk is kinda small space wise.

so it looks like the PSU is under debate...
May 25, 2007 4:23:29 PM

I like the setup as is but if your not planning to overclock you could go with something like this for $64.99 and save yourself about $20. 533 RAM is all you need for a 1066 CPU to run at 1:1. Then use that $20 to help buy you're wireless card.
May 25, 2007 6:17:11 PM

to have duo core and not over clock? come on now.... though i do like the setup i have now, i think it should do me for awhile. now what about possible future upgrades.....i know a sound card, but what else?
May 25, 2007 6:29:03 PM

Really depends upon your needs. Better video card, faster CPU, more or larger hard drives. I think that system will be better than you could imagine, you would be suprised at what a modest amount of money can get you. Read this.
May 25, 2007 6:39:43 PM

for your power supply needs, go to jonnyguru.com, sign up on the forums, list your parts, and they will suggest one.

You actually got lucky, because that ultra-X from that original bare bones build is REALLY good, but *most* PSUs that come in cases are crap.

Jonnyguru reviews PSUs as an avid hobby and works on them for a living, so he'll do you right.
May 25, 2007 7:26:10 PM

I don't know why anyone would get a 7600 or 7900 over a 1950pro for the difference in price the 1950 is the better card.Don't skimp on the PSU either as a fast vid card and future upgrades might leave some cheapo models wanting. Never had a problem with Antec.
May 25, 2007 7:32:14 PM

ok,so if i overclock this 1.8 duo core, how much faster will it be once overclocked?
May 25, 2007 7:36:51 PM

Quote:
ok,so if i overclock this 1.8 duo core, how much faster will it be once overclocked?


well I guess it depends on how far you overclock it

if you oc it to 3.6ghz it will be roughly 2x faster

if you oc it to 5.4ghz it will be roughly 3x faster

if you oc it to 7.2ghz it will be roughly 4x faster

if you oc it to 9.0ghz it will be roughly 5x faster

and so on until you get to 18ghz where it is 10x faster

all you need is imagination :D 
May 25, 2007 7:42:23 PM

Off the top of my head you should easily get to 2.6 stable on stock cooling with a significant boost in perf. some others here should be able to give some better numbers. You won't know for sure how much until you try.
June 14, 2007 5:19:03 AM

hey guys, back again! i'm looking at this mother board apt403 reccommended, and its reviews are starting ot bother me (for quick reference: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...). i can probably squeeze an extra $20-$40 for a tad bit better motherboard. any suggestions/reccomendations?
June 14, 2007 3:35:06 PM

Quote:

Instead of the DS3 get the MSI Neo-F, it'll save you about $40.


I think that link is wrong.
June 14, 2007 4:02:18 PM

soany reccomendations?
June 14, 2007 4:43:46 PM

na, need that prcessor, i plan to overclock. i'm just looking to get a better motherboard.
June 14, 2007 5:24:33 PM

You could still overclock one of the new Allendale processors. I can't remember where I saw the review, but they have performance pretty close to the e6300 and e6320, I think. It couldn't hurt to at least consider em...
June 14, 2007 5:27:39 PM

Well, this motherboard will suit you well.

It also has great upgrade-ability.

I'm no expert by any means. But this is a good mobo.
a b B Homebuilt system
June 14, 2007 5:32:59 PM

Quote:
You could still overclock one of the new Allendale processors. I can't remember where I saw the review, but they have performance pretty close to the e6300 and e6320, I think. It couldn't hurt to at least consider em...

I think this is the review you are referring to:

http://legionhardware.com/document.php?id=653

They went to 3.0GHz with the stock cooler, stock volts, and 3.4GHz with an aftermarket cooler.
June 14, 2007 6:19:35 PM

Daredevil, the psu in that case had a single 12V rail @ 14amps... That is not going to cut it for the system people are listing here.
June 14, 2007 6:32:41 PM

i think i'll go with the ds3 mobo, it has good reviews and i think will do good for what i need. thanks guys, again ,you all rock
!