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Hughes HD DVR for DirecTV

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Anonymous
January 11, 2005 4:03:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Sorry for cross-posting this to three groups, but I wasn't sure which to
use or even if any one would be right. Here is the situation.

I want to open a subscription to DirecTV, get the HD DVR, get a HD dish,
if possible, for future expansion, but not subscribe to the HD service
for now. There isn't enough useful coverage for the $11/mo fee, and
there are already nine OTA HD channels serving the Pittsburgh area.
However, the Hughes DVR looks like a pretty good deal versus the SD Tivo
since it has two HD receivers, two SD receivers and a Linux based
computer with a 250 Gb drive for about $850. I expect it to cost even
less by mid-year.

1. Can I do this, and if so, what do I order from DirecTV? Actually, I
will use Verizon for this since they can save me $6/mo on my
subscription, but I think the order ultimately goes to DirecTV. If not,
what is the minimum I have to order? In particular, what do I need to
say about the DVR?

2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the two
receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD receivers.

3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
signals using the Tivo capabilities? I am assuming I will be purchasing
the Tivo support service from DirecTV as part of their monthly charge.
This ought to cover any SD recording, but HD is a question.

4. Is there any advantage to purchasing a TV with a built-in HD tuner?
These sets seem to cost about $100-200 more. However, I have had
occasion to use the OTA SD tuner in my TV to watch a show while
recording another show off cable, so there may be some advantage to
having three tuners.

Again, sorry for the cross-posting.

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

More about : hughes dvr directv

Anonymous
January 11, 2005 7:23:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce wrote:

> 2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the two
> receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD receivers.

The HR10-250 HD TiVo has two logical tuners. Each logical tuner has a
DirecTV component and an OTA ATSC component. It can record two
satellite channels, two OTA HD or SD digital channels, or one of each.

> 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD

The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.

OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.


-Joe
January 11, 2005 1:06:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

"Robert Peirce" <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:bob-193699.20034510012005@news.verizon.net...
> Sorry for cross-posting this to three groups, but I wasn't sure which to
> use or even if any one would be right. Here is the situation.
>
> I want to open a subscription to DirecTV, get the HD DVR, get a HD dish,
> if possible, for future expansion, but not subscribe to the HD service
> for now. There isn't enough useful coverage for the $11/mo fee, and
> there are already nine OTA HD channels serving the Pittsburgh area.
> However, the Hughes DVR looks like a pretty good deal versus the SD Tivo
> since it has two HD receivers, two SD receivers and a Linux based
> computer with a 250 Gb drive for about $850. I expect it to cost even
> less by mid-year.
>
> 1. Can I do this, and if so, what do I order from DirecTV? Actually, I
> will use Verizon for this since they can save me $6/mo on my
> subscription, but I think the order ultimately goes to DirecTV. If not,
> what is the minimum I have to order? In particular, what do I need to
> say about the DVR?
>
> 2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the two
> receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD receivers.
>
> 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
> signals using the Tivo capabilities? I am assuming I will be purchasing
> the Tivo support service from DirecTV as part of their monthly charge.
> This ought to cover any SD recording, but HD is a question.
>
> 4. Is there any advantage to purchasing a TV with a built-in HD tuner?
> These sets seem to cost about $100-200 more. However, I have had
> occasion to use the OTA SD tuner in my TV to watch a show while
> recording another show off cable, so there may be some advantage to
> having three tuners.
>
> Again, sorry for the cross-posting.
>
> --
> Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
> bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
> rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
>
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...

This may not be the time to purchase a HD recorder?
Related resources
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 5:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Joe Smith (joe@inwap.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
>
> The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.
>
> OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
> OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
> Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
> Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
> DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
> DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.

Note that *recording* of OTA digital is impossible with the HR10-250
unless you have a DirecTV subscription *and* pay for the DVR service.

You can receive OTA digital just fine (and even use the 30-minute buffer
to pause live TV) without even having the satellite dish hooked up, but
recording is reserved for subscribers.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/FoxTrot/TransporterError.j...
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:20:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <ErednZFgUtPvdn7cRVn-gQ@comcast.com>,
"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Robert Peirce" <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:bob-193699.20034510012005@news.verizon.net...
>
> > I expect it to cost even
> > less by mid-year.
> >
> This may not be the time to purchase a HD recorder?

I wasn't planning to do it now. I was planning to wait to see if the
price might come down, say to $500-600 later in the year. Or are you
saying no time is a good time to buy an HD recorder?

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:20:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

>>This may not be the time to purchase a HD recorder?
>
>
> I wasn't planning to do it now. I was planning to wait to see if the
> price might come down, say to $500-600 later in the year. Or are you
> saying no time is a good time to buy an HD recorder?
>

I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up. I
believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be
able to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old channels
could). I can't confirm this data, however.

Randy S.
January 12, 2005 1:20:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

> I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up. I
> believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be able
> to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old channels
> could). I can't confirm this data, however.
>
> Randy S.

Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is down
for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and KA
band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever purchases.
As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression on HD to MPEG 4
also.

http://informitv.com/articles/2005/01/06/worldfirstmpeg...

D* anouncement

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...

Tivo group upset
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:28:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <CbudnUe-qvHSWH7cRVn-tQ@comcast.com>,
Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:

> Robert Peirce wrote:
>
> > 2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the two
> > receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD receivers.
>
> The HR10-250 HD TiVo has two logical tuners. Each logical tuner has a
> DirecTV component and an OTA ATSC component. It can record two
> satellite channels, two OTA HD or SD digital channels, or one of each.
>
> > 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
>
> The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.
>
> OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
> OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
> Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
> Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
> DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
> DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.

OK. Let me see if I have this straight.

a) I don't have to purchase the DirecTV HD service even though I have
all the HD hardware.

b) If I have a regular DirecTV subscription with the Tivo add-on, I
will be able to receive and record SD from DirecTV and I will be able to
receive and record OTA HD, but I will not receive DirecTV HD.

If the answer to a and b is yes then I am in business because that is
what I want to do until DirecTV has enough HD channels for me to want to
buy that service. It isn't clear, but having to record OTA HD as SD
would probably be acceptable for the time being should that be the case.
However, it appears you are saying I can record OTA HD even if I don't
subscribe to DirecTV HD. Is that the case?

Bob

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:28:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce (bob@peirce-family.com.invalid) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> OK. Let me see if I have this straight.
>
> a) I don't have to purchase the DirecTV HD service even though I have
> all the HD hardware.
>
> b) If I have a regular DirecTV subscription with the Tivo add-on, I
> will be able to receive and record SD from DirecTV and I will be able to
> receive and record OTA HD, but I will not receive DirecTV HD.

This is all correct.

But, see if you can get the HD Pack for free for a year or so as part of a
customer retention perk for buying the HR10-250.

Also, if you currently subscribe to HBO or Showtime, you also get the HD
versions of those channels with no extra fee...all you need is an HD
receiver.

--
Jeff Rife | "Because he was human; because he had goodness;
| because he was moral they called him insane.
| Delusions of grandeur; visions of splendor;
| A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
| -- Rush, "Cinderella Man"
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:31:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c4df471eb9baf10989a7e@news.nabs.net>,
Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

> Joe Smith (joe@inwap.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > > 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
> >
> > The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.
> >
> > OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
> > OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
> > Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
> > Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
> > DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
> > DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.
>
> Note that *recording* of OTA digital is impossible with the HR10-250
> unless you have a DirecTV subscription *and* pay for the DVR service.
>
> You can receive OTA digital just fine (and even use the 30-minute buffer
> to pause live TV) without even having the satellite dish hooked up, but
> recording is reserved for subscribers.

I intend to subscribe to the DirecTV satellite and DVR services but not
their HD service. It appears that will allow me to record OTA HD, but
it is not clear whether the recording will be HD or SD.

Bob

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:31:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce (bob@peirce-family.com.invalid) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > You can receive OTA digital just fine (and even use the 30-minute buffer
> > to pause live TV) without even having the satellite dish hooked up, but
> > recording is reserved for subscribers.
>
> I intend to subscribe to the DirecTV satellite and DVR services but not
> their HD service. It appears that will allow me to record OTA HD, but
> it is not clear whether the recording will be HD or SD.

The HR10-250 allows you to record OTA *digital*. Whether it is HD or SD
is up to the station that sends you the signal. If it is SD, then that
is how it is recorded. If it is HD, then *that* is how it is recorded.

This is because all that is recorded is the raw MPEG-2, so whatever format
gets sent is whatever format that gets recorded.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/Macarena.gif
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:58:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote in
news:bob-2FE1FE.17283511012005@news.verizon.net:

> In article <CbudnUe-qvHSWH7cRVn-tQ@comcast.com>,
> Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
>
>> Robert Peirce wrote:
>>
>> > 2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the
>> > two receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD
>> > receivers.
>>
>> The HR10-250 HD TiVo has two logical tuners. Each logical tuner has
>> a DirecTV component and an OTA ATSC component. It can record two
>> satellite channels, two OTA HD or SD digital channels, or one of
>> each.
>>
>> > 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
>>
>> The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.
>>
>> OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
>> OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
>> Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
>> Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
>> DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
>> DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.
>
> OK. Let me see if I have this straight.
>
> a) I don't have to purchase the DirecTV HD service even though I have
> all the HD hardware.
>
> b) If I have a regular DirecTV subscription with the Tivo add-on, I
> will be able to receive and record SD from DirecTV and I will be able
> to receive and record OTA HD, but I will not receive DirecTV HD.
>
> If the answer to a and b is yes then I am in business because that is
> what I want to do until DirecTV has enough HD channels for me to want
> to buy that service. It isn't clear, but having to record OTA HD as
> SD would probably be acceptable for the time being should that be the
> case. However, it appears you are saying I can record OTA HD even if
> I don't subscribe to DirecTV HD. Is that the case?
>
> Bob
>
You will be able to get ABC CBS and probably FOX depending where you live
included wuith direct tv. The antenna will give you all the locals
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 2:00:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote in news:bob-
A9EEF6.17313111012005@news.verizon.net:

> In article <MPG.1c4df471eb9baf10989a7e@news.nabs.net>,
> Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
>
>> Joe Smith (joe@inwap.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > > 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
>> >
>> > The HR10-250 can do OTA SD as long as it is a digital subchannel.
>> >
>> > OTA ATSC (digital SD and HD) = yes
>> > OTA NTSC (regular analog TV) = no
>> > Cable TV, analog, unscrambled = no
>> > Cable TV, digital or scrambled = no
>> > DirecTV SD = yes, with Total Choice subscription
>> > DirecTV HD = yes, if paying the additional fee for HD service.
>>
>> Note that *recording* of OTA digital is impossible with the HR10-250
>> unless you have a DirecTV subscription *and* pay for the DVR service.
>>
>> You can receive OTA digital just fine (and even use the 30-minute
buffer
>> to pause live TV) without even having the satellite dish hooked up,
but
>> recording is reserved for subscribers.
>
> I intend to subscribe to the DirecTV satellite and DVR services but not
> their HD service. It appears that will allow me to record OTA HD, but
> it is not clear whether the recording will be HD or SD.
>
> Bob
>
I record on the hard drive of my DVD recorder in SD
January 12, 2005 6:43:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Sr-dncF4cYEB9HncRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
>> I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up. I
>> believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be
>> able to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old channels
>> could). I can't confirm this data, however.
>>
>> Randy S.
>
> Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is down
> for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and KA
> band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever
> purchases. As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression on
> HD to MPEG 4 also.
>
> http://informitv.com/articles/2005/01/06/worldfirstmpeg...
>
> D* anouncement
>
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...
>
> Tivo group upset
Some in the TiVo group are upset. Those who have more years of seeing
DirecTV charge little to nothing for hardware that is made obselete by
service changes are happily recording and time shifting HD unconcerned with
the doom and gloom scenario.

Pat
January 12, 2005 2:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>> http://informitv.com/articles/2005/01/06/worldfirstmpeg...
>>
>> D* anouncement
>>
>> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...
>>
>> Tivo group upset
> Some in the TiVo group are upset. Those who have more years of seeing
> DirecTV charge little to nothing for hardware that is made obselete by
> service changes are happily recording and time shifting HD unconcerned
> with the doom and gloom scenario.
>
> Pat
To be fair one could consider that some owners of HD DVRs paid up to
1,000 dollars for their units. D* is not alone with the change to MPEG 4
for HD content there are anouncements from Dish also. Because no purchaser
or owner at this time has a road map of what the anoucement means for when
or how, replacement when required will be done, is cause to some for
concern. There is some debate that the units may handle MPEG 4 with a
update, some say flatly that it will not. And some are not aware that the
new sats will be KA band not KU and that could cause frustration for a few
in the near furture. Subs that are not setup or can not tune OTA maybe
waiting for the new sats for content and will ask if they can recieve from
KA. Because of several unanswered questions and different methods of
reception it is at least a time to research before purchase of a HD DVR. As
service provider are transitioning to new methods of deliver for HD content
there will be equipment that becomes out of date sooner for some then
others. Anyone that is looking at this time to purchase equipment that tunes
and or records HD content needs to factor in changes happening now that may
effect their purchase usablity in the future.
As to doom and gloom some may see it that way, even some that it will not
effect for some time or not at all. Each will see the value of their
purchase in different ways dependent on a lot of different factors yet to
play out. My biggest question is what form the HD DVR will take when they
will be required to handle MPEG 4? It maybe a little like HD DVD and take
some time to hammer out before the public will see working models, or do
they have them now? I will be fair and say that I don't have a dog in this
race as I tune OTA with a STB and computer card. When I record it is to a
computer hard drive which Tivo and Replay easily outperform for convience.
That said I believe that OTA will be the very last to change compression
type and will allow me to get more then a resonable return on investment.
January 13, 2005 2:57:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:43:54 GMT, "Greywolf"
<greywolfin45@*spamisbad*sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:Sr-dncF4cYEB9HncRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>>
>>> I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up. I
>>> believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be
>>> able to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old channels
>>> could). I can't confirm this data, however.
>>>
>>> Randy S.
>>
>> Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is down
>> for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and KA
>> band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever
>> purchases. As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression on
>> HD to MPEG 4 also.
>>
>> http://informitv.com/articles/2005/01/06/worldfirstmpeg...
>>
>> D* anouncement
>>
>> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...
>>
>> Tivo group upset
>Some in the TiVo group are upset. Those who have more years of seeing
>DirecTV charge little to nothing for hardware that is made obselete by
>service changes are happily recording and time shifting HD unconcerned with
>the doom and gloom scenario.
>
>Pat
>

No need to worry. Directv will be swapping out those Tivos for the new
units before too long.

TIVO - Dead Company Walking

Sean
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:34:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c4e38b0d182c0ed989a82@news.nabs.net>,
Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

> Robert Peirce (bob@peirce-family.com.invalid) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > OK. Let me see if I have this straight.
> >
> > a) I don't have to purchase the DirecTV HD service even though I have
> > all the HD hardware.
> >
> > b) If I have a regular DirecTV subscription with the Tivo add-on, I
> > will be able to receive and record SD from DirecTV and I will be able to
> > receive and record OTA HD, but I will not receive DirecTV HD.
>
> This is all correct.
>
> But, see if you can get the HD Pack for free for a year or so as part of a
> customer retention perk for buying the HR10-250.
>
> Also, if you currently subscribe to HBO or Showtime, you also get the HD
> versions of those channels with no extra fee...all you need is an HD
> receiver.

Great!! Thanks for the feedback.

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:38:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <Sr-dncF4cYEB9HncRVn-tg@comcast.com>,
"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up. I
> > believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be able
> > to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old channels
> > could). I can't confirm this data, however.
> >
> > Randy S.
>
> Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is down
> for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and KA
> band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever purchases.
> As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression on HD to MPEG 4
> also.

That's good to know. This is something I was planning to do later this
year. I guess I will just have to wait until this sorts itself out. I
would hate to buy something now and have to replace it in six months.

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 2:23:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

"Sean" <none> wrote in message
news:u2adu0520cp7bv4912q91438mbm11dcs2g@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:43:54 GMT, "Greywolf"
> <greywolfin45@*spamisbad*sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:Sr-dncF4cYEB9HncRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> I think he was referring to the new sats that Directv is throwing up.
>>>> I
>>>> believe the new ones will carry the new HD channels, which may not be
>>>> able to be received by the current HD directivo (though the old
>>>> channels
>>>> could). I can't confirm this data, however.
>>>>
>>>> Randy S.
>>>
>>> Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is
>>> down
>>> for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and
>>> KA
>>> band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever
>>> purchases. As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression
>>> on
>>> HD to MPEG 4 also.
>>>
>>> http://informitv.com/articles/2005/01/06/worldfirstmpeg...
>>>
>>> D* anouncement
>>>
>>> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=a...
>>>
>>> Tivo group upset
>>Some in the TiVo group are upset. Those who have more years of seeing
>>DirecTV charge little to nothing for hardware that is made obselete by
>>service changes are happily recording and time shifting HD unconcerned
>>with
>>the doom and gloom scenario.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>
> No need to worry. Directv will be swapping out those Tivos for the new
> units before too long.
>
> TIVO - Dead Company Walking
>
> Sean

Just curious why you figure they are gonna "swap" them out? I paid $995 for
my HD Direct Tivo through a local retailer as did quite a few others. You
think they are gonna trade me for an expensive piece of replacement
hardware? Doubtful.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:32:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

> >"Sonic" <ergoacess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:Sr-dncF4cYEB9HncRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> Randy you are correct that's the concern. The tivo community link is down
> >> for a while but has some good input. A change to Mpeg 4 compression and KA
> >> band for HD locals need to be factored in now for all HD reciever
> >> purchases. As a side note D* is not alone dish will change compression on
> >> HD to MPEG 4 also.

> >Some in the TiVo group are upset. Those who have more years of seeing
> >DirecTV charge little to nothing for hardware that is made obselete by
> >service changes are happily recording and time shifting HD unconcerned with
> >the doom and gloom scenario.

I started this discussion because I am not really familiar with Tivo at
this point. However, it seems to me that upgrading form MPEG-2 to
MPEG-4 should largely be a software issue, and as I understand it, Tivo
runs on Linux.

I can see three things that might make it hardware. Others will have to
tell me if any apply. The speed of the computer or the hard drive may
be too slow or the tuners may have hardware components that could affect
them. Aside from that, I can't think of anything that would make it
more than a software upgrade.

The dish is probably another matter. I have read the new system will
require five (5) LNBs and a larger dish. I don't know if that is true
or not.

A related, possibly stupid, question is what do the OTA stations send
out? If it isn't MPEG-2, how does the tuner figure it out? If it is
MPEG-2, what happens when DirecTV is sending MPEG-4 and OTA is sending
MPEG-2?

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote:

>I started this discussion because I am not really familiar with Tivo at
>this point. However, it seems to me that upgrading form MPEG-2 to
>MPEG-4 should largely be a software issue, and as I understand it, Tivo
>runs on Linux.

The menu system is run on Linux.

The Mpeg-2 encoding/decoding is done by a proprietary IBM chip.
>
>I can see three things that might make it hardware. Others will have to
>tell me if any apply. The speed of the computer or the hard drive may
>be too slow or the tuners may have hardware components that could affect
>them. Aside from that, I can't think of anything that would make it
>more than a software upgrade.
>
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

> I started this discussion because I am not really familiar with Tivo at
> this point. However, it seems to me that upgrading form MPEG-2 to
> MPEG-4 should largely be a software issue, and as I understand it, Tivo
> runs on Linux.
>
> I can see three things that might make it hardware. Others will have to
> tell me if any apply. The speed of the computer or the hard drive may
> be too slow or the tuners may have hardware components that could affect
> them. Aside from that, I can't think of anything that would make it
> more than a software upgrade.

How about #4: MPEG decoding in hardware. It's not generally a good
idea to load the CPU with decoding mpeg streams, so that is usually
implemented w/ seperate dedicated ASIC chips designed to do just that.
Those chips won't do MPEG-4.

>
> The dish is probably another matter. I have read the new system will
> require five (5) LNBs and a larger dish. I don't know if that is true
> or not.

Doesn't really matter though, does it? If a new dish is needed then I'm
sure Directv will supply it at no cost. The question is whether they'll
pay for installation.

> A related, possibly stupid, question is what do the OTA stations send
> out? If it isn't MPEG-2, how does the tuner figure it out? If it is
> MPEG-2, what happens when DirecTV is sending MPEG-4 and OTA is sending
> MPEG-2?
>

Isn't all HD mpeg-2 by standard? The MPEG-4 streams will be proprietary
Directv programming, assuming it all comes to pass as Directv is
describing. You'll have to use proprietary Directv hardware to receive
it. MPEG-4 is interesting, but so much is standard on MPEG-2 (like
DVD's) it's likely to cause some interesting problems as well. Forget
about DVD writer integrated units.

Randy S.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 4:32:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Randy S. (rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Isn't all HD mpeg-2 by standard?

Yes.

> The MPEG-4 streams will be proprietary
> Directv programming, assuming it all comes to pass as Directv is
> describing. You'll have to use proprietary Directv hardware to receive
> it. MPEG-4 is interesting, but so much is standard on MPEG-2 (like
> DVD's) it's likely to cause some interesting problems as well.

One of the most interesting is the need for full decoding and re-encoding.

With MPEG-2 as the source *and* the output, there are many tricks you can
play without completely decoding the stream if you want to reduce the
bitrate or add an overlay (among other things). MPEG-4 as the output will
require that DirecTV completely decodes the MPEG-2 from the station, then
re-encode in real time to MPEG-4 (this--by itself--is quite a trick, as
no real-time HD-resolution MPEG-4 encoders exist today).

This means that some signals could go through the following steps:

1. uncompressed source -> very high bitrate MPEG-2 (network encode)
2. very high bitrate MPEG-2 -> uncompressed video (at the station)
3. uncompressed video -> ATSC bitrate MPEG-2 with station bug (at the
station)
4. ATSC bitrate MPEG-2 with station bug -> uncompressed video (at DirecTV)
5. uncompressed video -> MPEG-4 compressed video (at DirecTV)
6. MPEG-4 compressed video -> uncompressed video (at the receiver)

The only steps that might be missed are #2-3 (by combining into
just using MPEG-2 tricks to reduce the bitrate and add an overlay).

--
Jeff Rife | "Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But
| then you get to the end and a gorilla starts
| throwing barrels at you."
| -- Philip J. Fry, "Futurama"
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 11:26:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

> Just curious why you figure they are gonna "swap" them out? I paid $995 for
> my HD Direct Tivo through a local retailer as did quite a few others. You
> think they are gonna trade me for an expensive piece of replacement
> hardware? Doubtful.

Charles, please don't feed the troll.

Randy S.
January 16, 2005 4:34:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <csa2js$gk2$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote:

> Isn't all HD mpeg-2 by standard? The MPEG-4 streams will be proprietary
> Directv programming, assuming it all comes to pass as Directv is
> describing. You'll have to use proprietary Directv hardware to receive
> it. MPEG-4 is interesting, but so much is standard on MPEG-2 (like
> DVD's) it's likely to cause some interesting problems as well. Forget
> about DVD writer integrated units.

How about integrated Blu-Ray units? That is if the MPEG4 DTV will use
is the same as the H.264/AVC HP adopted by Blu-Ray.

Anyways, the obstacles to such products won't be technical but
political/business/legal/economic. The studios don't want to make it
easy for people to archive the Sopranos on a high def. medium when they
have a lot of box sets to sell you.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:51:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Isn't all HD mpeg-2 by standard? The MPEG-4 streams will be proprietary

ATSC is based on MPEG2, and cable HD is as well - and probably will
remain so for a while as it is in the CableCARD spec and the tuners
coming out now do MPEG2.

>Directv programming, assuming it all comes to pass as Directv is
>describing. You'll have to use proprietary Directv hardware to receive

Yep - DirecTV, Dish, and Voom are all looking at MPEG4. The main
reason is that putting a satellite in orbit costs a lot of money, and
transponders are a finite resource. Switching to MPEG4 lets them
carry a lot more content on a transponder.

The new HD optical discs (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) both support three
codecs - MPEG2, MPEG4 AVC, and VC-1. (VC-1 is aka MS-WM9.) At CES
Sony had three Blu-ray decks running - one showing MPEG2 at 25Mbps,
one showing VC-1 as 12Mbps, and one showing MPEG4 AVC VBR 10-15Mbps.
I actually thought the MPEG4 picture looked best, slightly better than
the MPEG2 (which was still stunning), but I noticed artifacts in VC-1.

>it. MPEG-4 is interesting, but so much is standard on MPEG-2 (like
>DVD's) it's likely to cause some interesting problems as well. Forget
>about DVD writer integrated units.

Well, forget about that anyway. :-) DVD Video is more than just
MPEG2. Resolution *must* be 720x480 or 352x480, and there are
specifications for the key frames, etc. None of the satellite, ATSC,
or cable MPEG2 encodings match the DVD Video spec AFAIK. So you'd
have to re-encode for DVD anyway. I don't know if it is that much
easier to re-encode MPEG2 to MPEG2 compared to MPEG4 to MPEG2. But
since the MPEG4 signals will all be HD, you're not going to write DVD
Video anyway. :-)

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:51:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

<snip lots of good stuff>

> But since the MPEG4 signals will all be HD, you're not going to write
> DVD Video anyway. :-)

Point taken. I want my DVD HD!!!! ;-) I suppose I'll have to wait for
Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to get it :-(.

Randy S.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:53:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> shaped the electrons to say:
>re-encode in real time to MPEG-4 (this--by itself--is quite a trick, as
>no real-time HD-resolution MPEG-4 encoders exist today).

At CES DirecTV was showing what they claimed was the first real-time
satellite MPEG4 AVC HD broadcast. They were encoding video at their
home office, bouncing it off a sat via a spot beam aimed at Vegas, and
using a dish to pick it up for prototype HW to display it in their
booth. :-)

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:57:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> shaped the electrons to say:
>I started this discussion because I am not really familiar with Tivo at
>this point. However, it seems to me that upgrading form MPEG-2 to
>MPEG-4 should largely be a software issue, and as I understand it, Tivo
>runs on Linux.

Except that all the decoding is done in a dedicated decoder chip, and
not by software on a generic CPU. This is true for all DTV receivers,
not just TiVo. It is more cost effective. MPEG decoders aren't very
expensive, costing much less than a generic CPU, and RAM, required to
do the same work in software.

>The dish is probably another matter. I have read the new system will
>require five (5) LNBs and a larger dish. I don't know if that is true
>or not.

The specifics aren't final, but it WILL require a new dish. DTV
confirmed that to me in person at CES.

>A related, possibly stupid, question is what do the OTA stations send
>out? If it isn't MPEG-2, how does the tuner figure it out? If it is
>MPEG-2, what happens when DirecTV is sending MPEG-4 and OTA is sending
>MPEG-2?

OTA ATSC is MPEG2. THe new DTV HDTV units will have both MPEG2 and
MPEG4 support (they need MPEG2 for the SD channels anyway, and the
national HD channels will remain MPEG2 for a while - just the spot
beams for locals will be MPEG4, at least at first).

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 5:01:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

>> Just curious why you figure they are gonna "swap" them out? I paid $995 for
>> my HD Direct Tivo through a local retailer as did quite a few others. You
>> think they are gonna trade me for an expensive piece of replacement
>> hardware? Doubtful.

Actually, not doubtful. DirecTV has said they will replace end user
hardware for free as required by the upgrade. I talked to DTV reps in
person at CES last week and specifically asked about HDTV and DVRs. I
was told directly that they *will* replace the units if needed. But
right now the plan is that only new local HD spot beams will be
MPEG4. The decision on existing spot beams, and the national signals,
isn't made yet - so they couldn't say if, let alone when, those might
switch to MPEG4. So there may not be any need for current users to be
swapped.

They're also fully aware of the fact that users will not want to give
up their DVRs - and right now they have no MPEG4 based DVR. The new
MPEG4 HD receivers they have coming out are all non-DVR. They
recognize that as a gap in their products, and in my discussions I was
told that it may be an updated TiVo unit, or possibly a new unit from
NDS. They don't know yet. Possibly both. They aren't switching to
NDS exclusively, as some rumors would have it - in fact, at CES one of
the new boxes they showed off is running software from UCentric.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 2:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

MegaZone (newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> shaped the electrons to say:
> >re-encode in real time to MPEG-4 (this--by itself--is quite a trick, as
> >no real-time HD-resolution MPEG-4 encoders exist today).
>
> At CES DirecTV was showing what they claimed was the first real-time
> satellite MPEG4 AVC HD broadcast.

Unless you saw stuff that obviously was "live", I'd have to doubt this.
Nobody else has managed to come up with a real-time MPEG-4 encoder at
HD resolution, even though there have been several "demos" of transmission
of MPEG-4 HD over various media. Every other one has used pre-compressed
material.

There has been one HD-resolution real-time MPEG-4 encoder announced, but
I haven't seen anything about it actually being a physical product.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TiVoForRealLi...
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 3:10:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

MegaZone (newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Yep - DirecTV, Dish, and Voom are all looking at MPEG4. The main
> reason is that putting a satellite in orbit costs a lot of money, and
> transponders are a finite resource. Switching to MPEG4 lets them
> carry a lot more content on a transponder.

Actually, it doesn't allow them to carry "a lot more" per transponder.
At full resolution, DirecTV can have 2 MPEG-2 HD channels per transponder.
They have cut the resolution on their current HD channels to allow them to
do 3 per transponder, but that really degrades the picture quality. To
keep the quality up, they must do 2 "HD lite" (the AVS Forum epithet for this
1280x1080 "HD") and some SD per transponder.

MPEG-4 will allow 3 full resolution HD channels per transponder, or 4 "HD
lite" and some SD channels.

So, MPEG-4 allows about one more HD channel per transponder. That's a
decent increase, but not really revolutionary.

What is revolutionary is the extra bandwidth per transponder that the Ka
band SpaceWay satellites allow, plus the fact that they are dedicated
spot-beam satellites. This increases overall DirecTV HDTV bandwidth by
several orders of magnitude.

What won't see any help for a while is CONUS HDTV channels. Ignoring
locals, the majority of current HD channels need to be CONUS, and since the
first markets that get MPEG-4 HD locals generally have the best OTA HD
already, it's going to be quite a while before MPEG-4 helps DirecTV on
the bottom line.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/GiantWate...
January 18, 2005 4:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

"MegaZone" <newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org> wrote in message
news:megazone.1106013682@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
>>> Just curious why you figure they are gonna "swap" them out? I paid $995
>>> for
>>> my HD Direct Tivo through a local retailer as did quite a few others.
>>> You
>>> think they are gonna trade me for an expensive piece of replacement
>>> hardware? Doubtful.
>
> Actually, not doubtful. DirecTV has said they will replace end user
> hardware for free as required by the upgrade. I talked to DTV reps in
> person at CES last week and specifically asked about HDTV and DVRs. I
> was told directly that they *will* replace the units if needed. But
> right now the plan is that only new local HD spot beams will be
> MPEG4. The decision on existing spot beams, and the national signals,
> isn't made yet - so they couldn't say if, let alone when, those might
> switch to MPEG4. So there may not be any need for current users to be
> swapped.

Replacement of units is a when not a "if" situations. The changes to better
use bandwidth IMO are driven pimarily by the FCC plan to shutdown the
analog transmission of locals. The increased bandwith required to keep
locals looks to be driving big changes for both cable and satelite companys.
The apperance to some that satelite companies were unable to deployed analog
locals in a timely manner may bring more pressure to foward think the change
over.

"The decision on existing spot beams, and the national signals, isn't made
yet"

Well as far as whom you spoke to knows or is at liberty to say. If the
bandwith is not there would some locals be transmitted less HD, in MPEG 2 or
droped for awhile or will the bandwith be used more effiently?

> They're also fully aware of the fact that users will not want to give
> up their DVRs - and right now they have no MPEG4 based DVR. The new
> MPEG4 HD receivers they have coming out are all non-DVR. They
> recognize that as a gap in their products, and in my discussions I was
> told that it may be an updated TiVo unit, or possibly a new unit from
> NDS. They don't know yet. Possibly both. They aren't switching to
> NDS exclusively, as some rumors would have it - in fact, at CES one of
> the new boxes they showed off is running software from UCentric.

As you stated UCentric is a software company not hardware and is it possible
that the new box you saw at CES was infact a NDS box or protype for NDS? NDS
is looking to be a big part of the transition that is starting to take
place. Their goal is not to be involved with just one company or one segment
of the market place. They have their eyes on cable providers and are already
active in several arenas. Because their primary business is security they
hope to be a big part in DRM for STBs and other devices that STBs can
transfer recordings to. NDS boxes will logically be the replacement boxes
used by their business partners. If they obtain enough partners there will
be a huge advantage to cost of production. Their STB maybe the best, the
worse are even the only choice for HD MPEG 4 that is also capable of
recieveing all of D* signal.

http://www.svpalliance.org/docs/FAQ.pdf
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.j...
http://www.nds.com/press_room/article_directv_280404.ht...
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 2:09:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

In article <megazone.1106013421@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:

> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> shaped the electrons to say:
> >I started this discussion because I am not really familiar with Tivo at
> >this point. However, it seems to me that upgrading form MPEG-2 to
> >MPEG-4 should largely be a software issue, and as I understand it, Tivo
> >runs on Linux.
>
> Except that all the decoding is done in a dedicated decoder chip, and
> not by software on a generic CPU. This is true for all DTV receivers,
> not just TiVo. It is more cost effective. MPEG decoders aren't very
> expensive, costing much less than a generic CPU, and RAM, required to
> do the same work in software.
>
I did say that it was possible the tuners could be hardware based and
asked if this was the case. Apparently, it is.

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 5:17:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.ptv.tivo,alt.dbs.directv (More info?)

Why not wait? It could be a long time to get what you feel is worth the fee.
There could be enough generational HW changes within a year or so to make
the wait worth it.



"Robert Peirce" <bob@peirce-family.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:bob-193699.20034510012005@news.verizon.net...
> Sorry for cross-posting this to three groups, but I wasn't sure which to
> use or even if any one would be right. Here is the situation.
>
> I want to open a subscription to DirecTV, get the HD DVR, get a HD dish,
> if possible, for future expansion, but not subscribe to the HD service
> for now. There isn't enough useful coverage for the $11/mo fee, and
> there are already nine OTA HD channels serving the Pittsburgh area.
> However, the Hughes DVR looks like a pretty good deal versus the SD Tivo
> since it has two HD receivers, two SD receivers and a Linux based
> computer with a 250 Gb drive for about $850. I expect it to cost even
> less by mid-year.
>
> 1. Can I do this, and if so, what do I order from DirecTV? Actually, I
> will use Verizon for this since they can save me $6/mo on my
> subscription, but I think the order ultimately goes to DirecTV. If not,
> what is the minimum I have to order? In particular, what do I need to
> say about the DVR?
>
> 2. Will I be able to receive and watch HD signals OTA using the two
> receivers in the Hughes device? Ditto for the two SD receivers.
>
> 3. Will I be able to record the OTA HD and the OTA and DirecTV SD
> signals using the Tivo capabilities? I am assuming I will be purchasing
> the Tivo support service from DirecTV as part of their monthly charge.
> This ought to cover any SD recording, but HD is a question.
>
> 4. Is there any advantage to purchasing a TV with a built-in HD tuner?
> These sets seem to cost about $100-200 more. However, I have had
> occasion to use the OTA SD tuner in my TV to watch a show while
> recording another show off cable, so there may be some advantage to
> having three tuners.
>
> Again, sorry for the cross-posting.
>
> --
> Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
> bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
> rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]
>
!