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Displaying HD 4x3 pictures from Motorola DCT5100 to Sony XBR

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January 11, 2005 9:33:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I've connected a Motorola DCT5100 from Comcast to a Sony 40xbr800
4:3 TV via the component connectors. The Sony has a "16:9 enhanced"
mode which automatically detects a 16:9 aspect signal, and inserts
bars above and below the picture, maintaining the resolution.

Whenever I tune to an HD channel on the 5100 STB which is displaying
a 4:3 picture, I see black bars on all four sides of the picture.

I understand that the TV is receiving a 16:9 image from the cable box,
displaying it with bars above and below, and the 4:3 image only
occupies the center portion of that image, causing the bars on the
sides. But I'd like the cable box to send a high definition 4:3
signal to the Sony and view it full screen - even if I had to
change the setting manually for widescreen programs.

The 5100 STB has a "4:3 letterbox" setting and a "4:3 pan and scan"
setting, both which sound like they support outputting a 16:9 hi-def
image in a 4:3 aspect (by letterboxing or side-cropping the image).
Neither of these seem to have any effect on the HD channel picture
I see on the Sony, unless I downgrade the STB output to 480i.

Has anyone had any experience with this STB or TV, and knows how to
solve this problem? Or am I misunderstanding what's really happening
here?

Thanks,
PeterH
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 10:20:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

what channels do you have in hd that you don't have in sd? trying to figure
out why you'd need to do this...just switch to the sd channel


"PeterH" <pfhunt@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:41E37342.4010109@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net...
> I've connected a Motorola DCT5100 from Comcast to a Sony 40xbr800
> 4:3 TV via the component connectors. The Sony has a "16:9 enhanced"
> mode which automatically detects a 16:9 aspect signal, and inserts
> bars above and below the picture, maintaining the resolution.
>
> Whenever I tune to an HD channel on the 5100 STB which is displaying
> a 4:3 picture, I see black bars on all four sides of the picture.
>
> I understand that the TV is receiving a 16:9 image from the cable box,
> displaying it with bars above and below, and the 4:3 image only
> occupies the center portion of that image, causing the bars on the
> sides. But I'd like the cable box to send a high definition 4:3
> signal to the Sony and view it full screen - even if I had to
> change the setting manually for widescreen programs.
>
> The 5100 STB has a "4:3 letterbox" setting and a "4:3 pan and scan"
> setting, both which sound like they support outputting a 16:9 hi-def
> image in a 4:3 aspect (by letterboxing or side-cropping the image).
> Neither of these seem to have any effect on the HD channel picture
> I see on the Sony, unless I downgrade the STB output to 480i.
>
> Has anyone had any experience with this STB or TV, and knows how to
> solve this problem? Or am I misunderstanding what's really happening
> here?
>
> Thanks,
> PeterH
>
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 11:29:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

You are in a bad situation. I have often wondered how that exact situation
worked out. 4:3 HDTVs are a little odd, almost nonstandard. Cool for a
HTPC monitor though!

Can you turn off the auto "16:9 enhanced" mode?

I have a 16:9 TV and I hate it when a HD channel shows a 4:3 movie. I don't
like black bars at all (I know that is silly). I hate it so much I usually
switch to the SD version and let my TV do its "WIDE ZOOM" feature and fill
the screen with minimal distortion. You could just switch to the SD version
of the channel if there is one, or do as you do and watch it in 480i mode.
Your TV probably has DRC which will display it as 480P if you like.

--Dan

"PeterH" <pfhunt@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:41E37342.4010109@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net...
> I've connected a Motorola DCT5100 from Comcast to a Sony 40xbr800
> 4:3 TV via the component connectors. The Sony has a "16:9 enhanced"
> mode which automatically detects a 16:9 aspect signal, and inserts
> bars above and below the picture, maintaining the resolution.
>
> Whenever I tune to an HD channel on the 5100 STB which is displaying
> a 4:3 picture, I see black bars on all four sides of the picture.
>
> I understand that the TV is receiving a 16:9 image from the cable box,
> displaying it with bars above and below, and the 4:3 image only
> occupies the center portion of that image, causing the bars on the
> sides. But I'd like the cable box to send a high definition 4:3
> signal to the Sony and view it full screen - even if I had to
> change the setting manually for widescreen programs.
>
> The 5100 STB has a "4:3 letterbox" setting and a "4:3 pan and scan"
> setting, both which sound like they support outputting a 16:9 hi-def image
> in a 4:3 aspect (by letterboxing or side-cropping the image).
> Neither of these seem to have any effect on the HD channel picture
> I see on the Sony, unless I downgrade the STB output to 480i.
>
> Has anyone had any experience with this STB or TV, and knows how to
> solve this problem? Or am I misunderstanding what's really happening
> here?
>
> Thanks,
> PeterH
>
January 12, 2005 7:30:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

dg wrote:
> You are in a bad situation. I have often wondered how that exact situation
> worked out. 4:3 HDTVs are a little odd, almost nonstandard. Cool for a
> HTPC monitor though!
>
> Can you turn off the auto "16:9 enhanced" mode?

Nope (unless it's in the maintenance menus, which I haven't ventured
into, being a newbie at all this).

>
> I have a 16:9 TV and I hate it when a HD channel shows a 4:3 movie. I don't
> like black bars at all (I know that is silly). I hate it so much I usually
> switch to the SD version and let my TV do its "WIDE ZOOM" feature and fill
> the screen with minimal distortion. You could just switch to the SD version
> of the channel if there is one, or do as you do and watch it in 480i mode.

Good thought. The HD channels don't always run the same program
schedule as their SD counterparts, but you're right.

Even though the picture is 4:3, the picture on the HD
channel does look higher-def than 480i (although I may be
imagining it). So if there were a way to view it full-screen,
I'd be better off than just reverting to the SD channel.

> Your TV probably has DRC which will display it as 480P if you like.

Yep. Way better than the 480p upconvert in the STB, incidentally.

Thanks for the advice.
January 12, 2005 7:33:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

oscargrouch wrote:
> what channels do you have in hd that you don't have in sd? trying to figure
> out why you'd need to do this...just switch to the sd channel

Well, the HD channels don't always show the same program schedules
as their SD counterparts. Also, although I may be imagining it, the
4:3 picture broadcast on the HD channel looks higher-def than 480i,
so if I could get it to display full screen, I'd be better off ...
January 12, 2005 7:39:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

PeterH wrote:

> The 5100 STB has a "4:3 letterbox" setting and a "4:3 pan and scan"
> setting, both which sound like they support outputting a 16:9 hi-def
> image in a 4:3 aspect (by letterboxing or side-cropping the image).
> Neither of these seem to have any effect on the HD channel picture
> I see on the Sony, unless I downgrade the STB output to 480i.

I called Motorola support, and described my setup to them,
trying to get information about what the DCT5100 should do
in this situation. After a lot of questions about what I was
seeing, they basically said that any 4:3 picture broadcast on
a HD channel was going to have black bars on all sides on a 4:3
HD TV, regardless of the TV Type settings in the STB.

So I guess I'd need a TV with a zoom feature to get around this.
The Sony doesn't, so I guess it's SD for me unless I put up with
the 4-way letterboxing. The 16:9 HD is *amazing*, though, so I'll
keep the HD service long enough to see how often I use it.

Thanks to all those who answered. I'd still be interested in
hearing from anyone who *has* managed to get a hi-def 4:3 image
displayed full-screen on a 4:3 HDTV with this STB.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:39:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

which channels are you referring to? i don't think i have any that have
different schedules...a big part of the reason that the 4:3 window on the hd
channel looks better is simply that the picture is 25% smaller...once you
blow it up, it's not going to look so much better...the picture on my
sylvania 13" curved-screen kills the sd pic on an analog channel on my 32"
hd set...some of it is also the fact that many of the sd versions of the hd
stations are analog (the locals and espn for me) and the hd channel
isn't...i bet the size is a bigger factor, though


"PeterH" <pfhunt@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:hM1Fd.9653$wZ2.3576@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> oscargrouch wrote:
> > what channels do you have in hd that you don't have in sd? trying to
figure
> > out why you'd need to do this...just switch to the sd channel
>
> Well, the HD channels don't always show the same program schedules
> as their SD counterparts. Also, although I may be imagining it, the
> 4:3 picture broadcast on the HD channel looks higher-def than 480i,
> so if I could get it to display full screen, I'd be better off ...
>
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:42:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

don't forget, too, that once you blow that picture up, i think the tv takes
all the resolution you see in the 16:9 window and spreads it across the
whole screen...i don't think there are additional lines of resolution
sitting idle in the top and bottom black bars...can someone confirm/deny
this?


"PeterH" <pfhunt@nospam.pacbell.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:6S1Fd.9655$wZ2.9155@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> PeterH wrote:
>
> > The 5100 STB has a "4:3 letterbox" setting and a "4:3 pan and scan"
> > setting, both which sound like they support outputting a 16:9 hi-def
> > image in a 4:3 aspect (by letterboxing or side-cropping the image).
> > Neither of these seem to have any effect on the HD channel picture
> > I see on the Sony, unless I downgrade the STB output to 480i.
>
> I called Motorola support, and described my setup to them,
> trying to get information about what the DCT5100 should do
> in this situation. After a lot of questions about what I was
> seeing, they basically said that any 4:3 picture broadcast on
> a HD channel was going to have black bars on all sides on a 4:3
> HD TV, regardless of the TV Type settings in the STB.
>
> So I guess I'd need a TV with a zoom feature to get around this.
> The Sony doesn't, so I guess it's SD for me unless I put up with
> the 4-way letterboxing. The 16:9 HD is *amazing*, though, so I'll
> keep the HD service long enough to see how often I use it.
>
> Thanks to all those who answered. I'd still be interested in
> hearing from anyone who *has* managed to get a hi-def 4:3 image
> displayed full-screen on a 4:3 HDTV with this STB.
>
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 7:26:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Scanning lines are NOT "lines of resolution"


"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34knqdF4coavkU11@individual.net...
> don't forget, too, that once you blow that picture up, i think the tv
> takes
> all the resolution you see in the 16:9 window and spreads it across the
> whole screen...i don't think there are additional lines of resolution
> sitting idle in the top and bottom black bars...can someone confirm/deny
> this?
>
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 2:19:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

whatever, i'm not an engineer, nor do i care to be...how about "horizontal
rows of pixels"...thanks for answering the question and thanks even more for
pointing out my misuse of terminology without bothering to explain the
difference


"Frank Provasek" <provasek@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:yccFd.4547$KJ2.966@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Scanning lines are NOT "lines of resolution"
>
>
> "oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:34knqdF4coavkU11@individual.net...
> > don't forget, too, that once you blow that picture up, i think the tv
> > takes
> > all the resolution you see in the 16:9 window and spreads it across the
> > whole screen...i don't think there are additional lines of resolution
> > sitting idle in the top and bottom black bars...can someone confirm/deny
> > this?
> >
>
>
!