Overclocked CPU lifetime?

FH

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So we all know overclocking will shorten the lifetime of a CPU. But by how much? What is the non-O/Cd lifetime of a CPU anyway? What is the main factor reducing the lifetime, frequency-increase, voltage-increase, heat-increase? Is any one of these more significant than the others?

As a concrete example, while it appeared to work at 3.2GHz, I am now running my E6600 at 3.05GHz with no voltage increase, EIST enabled and junction temperatures staying under 50C at load (56C when using TAT). Will this "conservative" overclock preserve most of the lifetime of my CPU?

Of course very few of us will still use the same CPU 5 years from now. Any margin above that will probably be meaningless to most people. For the sake of this thread though I'd still be interested if a moderate overclock reduced the lifetime of the CPU from, say, 10 to 5 years for example.
 

Mondoman

Splendid
Excellent questions! I seem to remember hearing that the design life of a CPU is something like 10-20 years.
Apparently, electromigration is the main culprit in eventual failure, and it is proportional to current integrated over time, and (non-linearly) increased by temperature. Boosting the voltage increases both the current and the heat, so that's not good for longevity.
My guess is that as long as you don't increase the CPU voltage over stock, and keep it cool as you describe, you shouldn't have an electromigration problem during your use of the computer. Electrolytic capacitors would probably be the first point of failure in that case.
 

lumper

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I believe constant thermic acceleration (heat) will kill the life span more than anything.
That being said I think if temps can be consistently controlled and within spec that you theoreticaly could run overclocked and get as much life out of the chip as you would under normal circumstances and perhaps longer than some users who have smaller cases, weak and stressed power supplies, dead case fans etc.. where heat is more present and often at the high end of the max limits of the cpu but dont even know it.
I dont think simply running at different mhz alone will hurt the life span if kept cool.

What do I know?

Lump
 

DarkKnight21

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It's a very iffy subject.

I would say an overclocked CPU could easily last as long as a none-overclocked CPU. The Voltage modifications are what damages it's longevity. Although, I ran a AMD 3100 Sempron for socket 754 at 2.3 ghz (from 1.8) at 0.2 volts over the stock for 2 years. And it's still going now in the system I passed down to a family member. I would say, after nearly 2 years that it will probably die in the next 1-2 assuming that it's still in use, but who really knows? It could last another 20.

Considering we're talking 5 years with a 500 mhz overclock, and well past my usage of the CPU, is that such a bad thing?

P.S. I just now remembered that I have an old Athlon XP with a rated speed of 2200 (clocked at 1.6ghz) that was overclocked to 2.1 with a similiar voltage increase is STILL going now in another family members PC. That's nearly 4 years since I bought it, and it's still going strong.
 

ajfink

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Yeah, generally keep the voltages at stock / below stock if you can, even when overclocking, if you care about having the CPU for more than a decade.

Essentially every other part of a PC except the RAM will die first. Every one.
 

bennyg55

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ummm who here is using the same CPU as they were in May 2002?

Who cares if your bog-slow 5-year-old CPU is alive or dead. Old tech is extremely inexpensive - 30 bucks on ebay will buy you a CPU from 2002.

I'd much rather get increased performance over the useable lifetime of a product, than less-impressive performance during its useable lifetime and increased lifespan when it's obsolete.

With C2D, you can get massive OCs from little or no voltage increase. If you keep heat down, they should not be greatly affected. I would rather a cool, overclocked CPU than a stock hot one like an XP 2700+ that's run @ 55C all its life.
 

jajig

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I have the same situation my Sempron 754 has been overclocked by 500mhz for the last 2 years with no problems and I have an AthlonXP overclocked by 400Mhz for the last 4 years and still going strong.

Going back even further my GeForce4 4200Ti has both the memory and GPU overclocked since the day I bought it back when it first came out! I think that was 2001 but I'm not sure. So long as the computer is stable under load and the temperatures are ok I don't think the CPU life will be shortened by any meaningful amount, my overclocked PentiumMMX and Pentium II still work today although I seldom use them anymore.
 

bkiserx7

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I have an XP-M 2400+ (1.8) overclocked to 2.5 Ghz 24/7 and it's going on 2+ years @ 1.7 Volts if I remember right (scratches head). My buddy is using it as his temporary WoW box.
 
ummm who here is using the same CPU as they were in May 2002?

I am. New Box #1 is for gaming and multimedia. Box #2 is my everyday computer. Box #3 is for Win98 and old apps and games. I recently retired a 600 MHz PII Celeron box. And I dumped a P233MMX that I OC'd to 300 MHz.

Based on my experience, that first two things that are most likely to fail are CD-ROM drives and PSU's.

Unless you are unlucky, obsolescence will kill a computer before a dead CPU chip will.
 

bigblack

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I do not have theoretical knowledge, only what i have read in articles and forums. I have been ocing though for the best part of the last 15 years. An oc'ed celeron 300 of mine is still in use in a small business a friend has, along with a Pentium 2 300. My 2 NF7-S with 2 Athlon XP-M 2500, clocked to 2.4 Ghz @ 1.70V are serving as general purpose machines (and gaming!) for two younger cousins. All properly cooled have not presented any sign of trouble or performance degradation for the moment. I run my E6600 oc'ed @ 3.0 Ghz with 1.22V (24h orthos + TAT 100% load tested of course!) and i believe that this machine will see the next decade like that (preferably in somebody else's hands :lol: )

So from my experience if you overclock modestly and you keep everything cool, neither electromigration, nor thermal stressing will significantly affect cpu's life. Don't know if the same will happen as we go down the ladder of die shrinking though!
 

m25

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ummm who here is using the same CPU as they were in May 2002?
Much more people than you think, especially now that PCs are also flooding poor countries where performance expectations are small to inexistent :wink:
 

htoonthura

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You are worrying about cpu lifetime. I have pd 830 running at 3.6 . it has been running for almost 2 years. It is running strong. i do not worry about the cpu lifetime. or cpu(s) are cheap and constantly getting better and better. I am more concerned of my data on my hd.

believe it or not, if my cpu dies today, i would be more than happy. To tell you the truth, i am dying to build a new system. But, my current one is working fine and it meets my needs. So, i donot see any reason to build another one unless i have no computer. In my case , like many others, i do not care.
 

lexluthermiester

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So we all know overclocking will shorten the lifetime of a CPU. But by how much? What is the non-O/Cd lifetime of a CPU anyway? What is the main factor reducing the lifetime, frequency-increase, voltage-increase, heat-increase? Is any one of these more significant than the others?

As a concrete example, while it appeared to work at 3.2GHz, I am now running my E6600 at 3.05GHz with no voltage increase, EIST enabled and junction temperatures staying under 50C at load (56C when using TAT). Will this "conservative" overclock preserve most of the lifetime of my CPU?

Of course very few of us will still use the same CPU 5 years from now. Any margin above that will probably be meaningless to most people. For the sake of this thread though I'd still be interested if a moderate overclock reduced the lifetime of the CPU from, say, 10 to 5 years for example.

Why does this issue keep coming up? The idea that overclocking a CPU[or anything else electronic] is a TOTAL MYTH!

If you clock a P3 from 1333mhz to 1700mhz without modifying the voltage and it runs stably at that speed[for nearly 5 years BTW], it will run at that speed for the projected life of the CPU.

Electron migration ONLY applies to situations where more than the rated voltage is applied the component in question. If the rated voltage is, in the case of the aforementioned P3, 1.55 volts and you raise it by 10% expect to lose 5% of the life of the CPU. Raise it by 15% and you lose 15%, raise it by 20% and you lose 30%. These are only general numbers but you get the picture.

By way of comparison my Core2 is being overclocked from 2.13ghz[266 FSB] to 2.66ghz[333 FSB] without changing the voltage. Even though this CPU run at 1.32 volts, Intel rates the nominal voltage at 1.35[printed right in the box no less]. At that voltage the CPU will run at any speed that voltage setting will stably allow and will do so for the projected life of the CPU. In this case, Intel has rated the Core2's at a life expectancy of 15 years.

Overclocking will NOT degrade the life of any electronic component. Overvolting will...
 

m25

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There is 1 main rule for not shortening the life of tour OC-ed CPU: DON'T RAISE THE VOLTAGE ABOVE SPECS.
Doing so, never rises your temps above specs and never makes you exceed the highest frequencies supported by that particular core.
 

Mondoman

Splendid
...
If you clock a P3 from 1333mhz to 1700mhz without modifying the voltage and it runs stably at that speed[for nearly 5 years BTW], it will run at that speed for the projected life of the CPU.
Yes, but the projected life will be reduced because of the increased current and temperature.

...
Electron migration ONLY applies to situations where more than the rated voltage is applied the component in question.
First, "electron migration" is normally called "current". However, "electromigration," which involves the migration of atoms, not just electrons, applies whenever ANY current is flowing (no matter the voltage level).

The DEGREE of electromigration varies with the amount of current and the temperature in a non-linear manner.

...
Overclocking will NOT degrade the life of any electronic component.
Of course it will, as overclocking increases current.

For example, here's an excerpt from work from 15 years ago: particularly]http://www.stormingmedia.us/49/4975/A497582.html
electromigration in metal lines, power busses and signal lines, hot carrier effects in devices, and voltage drop in power busses. In addition to process parameters, all of these effects can be shown to depend on current flow in the circuit. More specifically, electromigration and hot carrier induced degradation are both long-term effects and are related to the average current flow over time under all possible input signals that the design experiences.
 

HYST3R

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Excellent questions! I seem to remember hearing that the design life of a CPU is something like 10-20 years.
Apparently, electromigration is the main culprit in eventual failure, and it is proportional to current integrated over time, and (non-linearly) increased by temperature. Boosting the voltage increases both the current and the heat, so that's not good for longevity.
My guess is that as long as you don't increase the CPU voltage over stock, and keep it cool as you describe, you shouldn't have an electromigration problem during your use of the computer. Electrolytic capacitors would probably be the first point of failure in that case.

best anwser on this thread!

Heat + Electronmigragration = Faster Aging of the CPU. Electromigration ionizes and physically moves particles out of circuits like a river moving and cutting sedimentary rock. Over time, moving enough particles to hinder a good electrical connection.

Even with an OC on a chip, without raising the Voltage and keeping it within its thermal barrier your not damaging the CPU at all. Some may dissagree saying any OC damages the chip. But if its not over heating, and no electromigration is present then no damage is being done.
 

Mondoman

Splendid
... Electromigration ionizes and physically moves particles out of circuits like a river moving and cutting sedimentary rock. Over time, moving enough particles to hinder a good electrical connection.
Exactly (with the minor exception of the "ionizes" part).

... But if... no electromigration is present then no damage is being done.
True, but since electromigration is present whenever a current is flowing, and overclocking increases current flow, then OCing increases electromigration. Whether the increased electromigration from a specific OC significantly reduces the lifetime of the chip depends on the specific situation.
 

Grimmy

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ummm who here is using the same CPU as they were in May 2002?

Who cares if your bog-slow 5-year-old CPU is alive or dead. Old tech is extremely inexpensive - 30 bucks on ebay will buy you a CPU from 2002.

I'd much rather get increased performance over the useable lifetime of a product, than less-impressive performance during its useable lifetime and increased lifespan when it's obsolete.

With C2D, you can get massive OCs from little or no voltage increase. If you keep heat down, they should not be greatly affected. I would rather a cool, overclocked CPU than a stock hot one like an XP 2700+ that's run @ 55C all its life.

My thoughts exactly.

I still run a system I built near the year of 2002. As a matter of fact, I'm typing this message with it. It served it's purpose, and will further server another purpose to retire my older (AMD 1 ghz thunderbird system) linux box.

The only point this proves that CPU's will run a long time, OC or not. But, people get sick of their stuff, seeing other people with faster machines leap frogging their older systems as time goes by. And then get addicted to speed for faster systems, OR get addicted to bragging rights. :lol:
 

lexluthermiester

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...
If you clock a P3 from 1333mhz to 1700mhz without modifying the voltage and it runs stably at that speed[for nearly 5 years BTW], it will run at that speed for the projected life of the CPU.
Yes, but the projected life will be reduced because of the increased current and temperature.

...
Electron migration ONLY applies to situations where more than the rated voltage is applied the component in question.
First, "electron migration" is normally called "current". However, "electromigration," which involves the migration of atoms, not just electrons, applies whenever ANY current is flowing (no matter the voltage level).

The DEGREE of electromigration varies with the amount of current and the temperature in a non-linear manner.

...
Overclocking will NOT degrade the life of any electronic component.
Of course it will, as overclocking increases current.

For example, here's an excerpt from work from 15 years ago: particularly]http://www.stormingmedia.us/49/4975/A497582.html
electromigration in metal lines, power busses and signal lines, hot carrier effects in devices, and voltage drop in power busses. In addition to process parameters, all of these effects can be shown to depend on current flow in the circuit. More specifically, electromigration and hot carrier induced degradation are both long-term effects and are related to the average current flow over time under all possible input signals that the design experiences.

Wow an intelligent response! I'm glad you posted that link, it backs up the points I'm about to make. Ok here we go...

First, The temperature difference between stock speed and the OC'd CPU in question is 2C. Hardly anything to be concerned over.

Second, Since there seems to be some confusion, let me explain the difference between "electron migration", "voltage" and "current". Current is a measurement of strength of the flow of electrons through a pathway. Voltage is a measurement of speed of electrons through a pathway. Electron Migration defines the process by which electrons "migrate" from their intended and or designed pathway to other areas of the device. This effect can and does cause interference in electronic devices and in the case of CPU's, causes errors in the execution of instructions. This effect can become a cascading chain reaction which may cause the "death" of the CPU. This effect is aggravated by increased temperatures and voltage.

Third, Increasing the speed of a CPU only increases it's frequency[measured in hz], not it's current[measured in amps]. Because of the way CPU's receive their power, the two are not directly intertwined. Also because of that method, increasing voltage will increase current.

Fourth, Electron Migration is present in ALL electric devices regardless of type or source. The degree of persistence of electron migration depends greatly on the quality and type of materials used, manufacturing methods as well as environmental operating conditions.

Fifth, Overclocking will not cause any long-term damage to any electronic device even if it's temperature raises slightly. It may cause malfunction, but not permanent damage. As long heat is given a method by which it may "bleed" away from the device in question and voltage is carefully and properly regulated, the device will last it's expected lifetime. By way of comparison, if I were to drop the voltage of the aforementioned Pentium3 to .9 volts and run it at whatever frequency that voltage would allow, the CPU would outlive us all.

Sixth, Electron Migration does NOT equal current! Get that misinformed nonsense out of your mind.
 
The Cely 300A was made from a chip design aimed at the 500 MHz mark @ 2.0 V. Making it run overclocked at 450 (the easiest overclock, especially on an Abit BH6, which OC'ed it when you plugged it in) wouldn't tax it: you could even undervolt it and run it stable, and with a slightly bigger HSF than standard keep it at a low temp.
- mine ran at 32°C even under heavy load. Undervolted to 1.9V. For all I know it still works (sold it years ago).
- my bro's could run at the same clock speed, but undervolted to 1.7 V - he didn't need to change the HSF to keep it cool at 450 MHz.
Tough little beasts.
However, my backup machine (a Duron 950) is showing signs of fatigue: performance is way down from its top days, and I wonder if it's not having L2 cache issues. While I always tried to keep it cool, there was no way I could make it run under stock temps (which were around 45°C)
Final note: keep your computer as cool as you can, it'll make it last longer.