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LCD projection black levels

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January 11, 2005 7:03:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and color
on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only concern.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 7:13:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.

I'm sure a visit to your local cinema will show you that no projection
system -- whether in a cinema or in your home -- will give you a perfect
black. The image path through the air to the screen naturally allows some
light leakage into the blacks. I have a Sony RPLCD and I can tolerate its
less than ideal black levels because of its many other virtues, including
bang per buck.

--
Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 8:33:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

My Sony KF42WE620 LCD projection is better than my KF32XBR CRT in every
respect. The latter was regarded than the best ever CRT on the commercial
market (and was expensive accordingly). I did not find any disturbing effect
on the image though I was against a projection TV and if there were the
slightest nuance found I would had threw it back. By the way, do not look
for total black, it does not exist in nature, can be approached in lab
circumstances with difficulties.

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and color
> on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only concern.
>
Related resources
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 9:11:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
complaints regarding the black level.

Jeff

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and color
> on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only concern.
>
January 12, 2005 1:20:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Charles Gillen" <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95DBA52213708gillen@216.194.192.13...
> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>
> I'm sure a visit to your local cinema will show you that no projection
> system -- whether in a cinema or in your home -- will give you a perfect
> black. The image path through the air to the screen naturally allows some
> light leakage into the blacks. I have a Sony RPLCD and I can tolerate its
> less than ideal black levels because of its many other virtues, including
> bang per buck.


Which Sony do you have?
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 2:38:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote:

> Which Sony do you have?

KDF42WE655
--
Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
January 12, 2005 6:12:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>complaints regarding the black level.
>
> Jeff

Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50" KDF50WE655.

Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
How is everything else?

>
> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
>> concern.
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 4:13:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I also have a Sony KDF42WE655 RPLCD and have had no problems w/ the
black levels. In fact when i first got it around Thanksgiving we had
people over and some of the guys before seeing it said they wouldn't
have bought the RPLCD because of bad black levels....needless to say
after seeing it (Thanksgiving Football and Star Wars DVD)...they
changed their minds in a hurry.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 7:14:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have a Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD RPTV. No pixelating with dark scenes or
anything like that. I realize that, in fact, "black" is not really black --
since it can't be blacker than the screen is when turned off -- but I never
notice that when watching TV. And the only pixelating I ever see (rare,
actually) seems to be related to transmission, not reproduction.

mack
austin


"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:LA0Fd.389$V76.131448@monger.newsread.com...
> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
> news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>>complaints regarding the black level.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50"
> KDF50WE655.
>
> Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
> How is everything else?
>
>>
>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
>>> concern.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 10:01:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

That is the set I have (KDF50WE655). I think the dark scenes look fine. I
do not see any pixelation. I really all of the features of this set too.
No complaints. Here are a couple of features I do like very well:

- One button switch between cable and antenna
- Easy to cycle through different a/v inputs
- A/V inputs can be named as well as set to skip if not used
- many other features, but these really stand out compared to by 5 year old
Toshiba set

Jeff


"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:LA0Fd.389$V76.131448@monger.newsread.com...
> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
> news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>>complaints regarding the black level.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50"
> KDF50WE655.
>
> Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
> How is everything else?
>
>>
>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
>>> concern.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 9:41:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

CJ wrote:
> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
color
> on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
concern.

I agree. Regarding blacks, you can evaluate them in regards to the
color of black and how well it resolves shadow/black detail. I
recently read a review in "The Perfect Vision" where they describe the
new Sony XS LCDs blacks as a bit 'blueish.' I haven't noticed this
myself but what I have noticed is that LCDs just don't resolve (and
neither do DLPs) intricate black or shadow detail like CRTs can. And
the more you watch DVDs and pay attention to shadow detail, the more
you appreciate just how important they are to the director and how much
they add to the film. Still, in the end, LCDs have their own advantages
over other technologies....you just gotta take the good with the not so
good.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:57:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

DLP technology is based on vibrating tiny mirrors and produced by only one
company. I would never buy anything with those base conditions. No wonder
the image DLP produce has problems and the resolution is limited.

The screen door effect of TFT based LCD and similar technologies are the
nature of the beast. Control circuits take place and every through light
system has that problem.

Reflective light systems like LCoS, a liquid crystal layer on top of the
back driving circuitry does not disturb the light pass because there is no
through light instead reflects. It has no screen door effect. Plus it has a
seemingly unlimited progress possibility towards higher resolutions.
Additionally the single lamp light source provides almost unlimited life
expectancy, since changing the relatively cheap ($200) lamp, you get a new
TV. Plasma is just the opposite.

What I really do not know though is what kind of microdisplay technology is
used in my excellent Sony Grand Wega rear projector. One can find
contradictory definitions. Got no response from Sony!

"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and color
> on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only concern.
>
January 14, 2005 4:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thats the one I was looking at. I didnt get a chance to see it that much,
but when I looked at the Panasonic LCD RPTV, it looked great.....then I
noticed the "screen door" effect on certain scenes and it really bugged me.
Do you see any really fine lines in the picture during certain lighter
scenes with the Sony?

"Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
news:vTiFd.8197$7k5.4588@fe37.usenetserver.com...
> That is the set I have (KDF50WE655). I think the dark scenes look fine.
> I do not see any pixelation. I really all of the features of this set
> too. No complaints. Here are a couple of features I do like very well:
>
> - One button switch between cable and antenna
> - Easy to cycle through different a/v inputs
> - A/V inputs can be named as well as set to skip if not used
> - many other features, but these really stand out compared to by 5 year
> old Toshiba set
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
> news:LA0Fd.389$V76.131448@monger.newsread.com...
>> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
>> news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>>>complaints regarding the black level.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50"
>> KDF50WE655.
>>
>> Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
>> How is everything else?
>>
>>>
>>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>>>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>>>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>>>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
>>>> concern.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 5:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Are you sure that when you talk about "screen door effect" you are not
talking about something else? The "screen door effect" looks exactly like
looking through a screen door, but because the lines are so fine, they are
only visible if you are VERY close to the screen. I would say within a foot
or so, at least that's my experience with my Sony LCD RPTV. I don't
understand why that would EVER be a problem.

I can see the "screen door effect" on the 17" LCD computer screen I am
looking at right now. But beyond 6 inches, I can't see it any longer. Just
as with the larger TV screen, there is no problem because I don't look at
the computer monitor from that close.

In fact, here in my office, I have a 27" Sony CRT TV set. If I get up to
about 6" away from the screen, I see someting that looks very much like the
"screen door effect" on LCD screens except that it is actually much more
pronounced. But I would never see this unless I watched the set from a few
inches away.

Am I missing something here? Under what circumstances would one ever get
close enough to a wide-screen TV set to see the "screen door effect"? In
fact, if you can't SEE a "screen door effect", IS there one? (Zen and the
Art of TV Buying)

mack
austin



"CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
news:j2QFd.55$tK3.14643@newshog.newsread.com...
> Thats the one I was looking at. I didnt get a chance to see it that much,
> but when I looked at the Panasonic LCD RPTV, it looked great.....then I
> noticed the "screen door" effect on certain scenes and it really bugged
> me.
> Do you see any really fine lines in the picture during certain lighter
> scenes with the Sony?
>
> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
> news:vTiFd.8197$7k5.4588@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>> That is the set I have (KDF50WE655). I think the dark scenes look fine.
>> I do not see any pixelation. I really all of the features of this set
>> too. No complaints. Here are a couple of features I do like very well:
>>
>> - One button switch between cable and antenna
>> - Easy to cycle through different a/v inputs
>> - A/V inputs can be named as well as set to skip if not used
>> - many other features, but these really stand out compared to by 5 year
>> old Toshiba set
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>> news:LA0Fd.389$V76.131448@monger.newsread.com...
>>> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
>>> news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>>>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>>>>complaints regarding the black level.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50"
>>> KDF50WE655.
>>>
>>> Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
>>> How is everything else?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>>>>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>>>>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>>>>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my
>>>>> only concern.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 2:09:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

That's about the same analogy as the rainbow effect.

As far as the "screen door" effect, on all 3 of the 60xs955's I saw/almost
bought, the only time I could make out the geometry(the actual lines/detail)
of the "screen door" was when viewing about 3'. However, back as far as 10'
I noticed another bothersome problem. The image appeared to be moving
BEHIND the screen door which at that distance, looked more like a mask then
a screen. I found myself then looking for it. It was as if the image was
3" BEHIND the screen and moving around while the "screen door" stayed still.
I especially noticed that problem on bright scenes/video.

Could I have lived with it? Most certainly. Like you said, it's all in the
eye of the beholder:-) I've also never seen a rainbow on a DLP either. I
made my choice by comparing the detail of the images from 2 sources...HDTV
and analog SD broadcasts....heck with screen's and rainbows.

I've also read forums about people getting headaches from DLP's and LCD's.
I think it's just the fact that they have a HUGE screen that is now the same
distance away that they are used to having their 36" crt at.

....but hey, different strokes:-)

Don

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:cTQFd.3298$Ta2.1326@fe2.texas.rr.com...

> Am I missing something here? Under what circumstances would one ever get
> close enough to a wide-screen TV set to see the "screen door effect"? In
> fact, if you can't SEE a "screen door effect", IS there one? (Zen and the
> Art of TV Buying)
>
> mack
> austin
>
>
>
> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
> news:j2QFd.55$tK3.14643@newshog.newsread.com...
>> Thats the one I was looking at. I didnt get a chance to see it that
>> much, but when I looked at the Panasonic LCD RPTV, it looked
>> great.....then I noticed the "screen door" effect on certain scenes and
>> it really bugged me.
>> Do you see any really fine lines in the picture during certain lighter
>> scenes with the Sony?
>>
>> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
>> news:vTiFd.8197$7k5.4588@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>> That is the set I have (KDF50WE655). I think the dark scenes look fine.
>>> I do not see any pixelation. I really all of the features of this set
>>> too. No complaints. Here are a couple of features I do like very well:
>>>
>>> - One button switch between cable and antenna
>>> - Easy to cycle through different a/v inputs
>>> - A/V inputs can be named as well as set to skip if not used
>>> - many other features, but these really stand out compared to by 5 year
>>> old Toshiba set
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>>> news:LA0Fd.389$V76.131448@monger.newsread.com...
>>>> "Jeff Durham" <jdurham@outdoorlife.local> wrote in message
>>>> news:N2ZEd.7589$7k5.5420@fe37.usenetserver.com...
>>>>>I have a Sony Grand Wega 50" which is a rear projection LCD. I have no
>>>>>complaints regarding the black level.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Which model do you have?? I am actually looking at the Sony 50"
>>>> KDF50WE655.
>>>>
>>>> Does the dark scenes on movies pixelate?
>>>> How is everything else?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>>>>>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>>>>>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>>>>>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my
>>>>>> only concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 6:42:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:CL2dnVEcxrqk3XTcRVn-hg@comcast.com...
> That's about the same analogy as the rainbow effect.
>
> As far as the "screen door" effect, on all 3 of the 60xs955's I saw/almost
> bought, the only time I could make out the geometry(the actual
> lines/detail) of the "screen door" was when viewing about 3'. However,
> back as far as 10' I noticed another bothersome problem. The image
> appeared to be moving BEHIND the screen door which at that distance,
> looked more like a mask then a screen. I found myself then looking for
> it. It was as if the image was 3" BEHIND the screen and moving around
> while the "screen door" stayed still. I especially noticed that problem on
> bright scenes/video.

I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from less
than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked like an image
moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?

I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a foot
away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or anything else
from farther away than that.

mack
austin
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 6:42:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...

> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from
> less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked like
> an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?

Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I can
see. In other words, I can no longer make out the horizontal/vertical lines
of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could have lived with it, no problem.
It just made the HD content look "grainy" to me....especially on
bright/white scenes.

> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a
> foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or anything
> else from farther away than that.

I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the other 88%
of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right TV's for "us".
Which was the whole point of the post.

Don
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:09:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sounds to me as though what you are seeing is something about the reception,
something that makes the picture look "grainy". But I think it has nothing
to do with the so-called "screen door effect" of all LCD screens, which you
can only see if you put your nose to the screen. If you can't see the
components that make up the "screen door", then you can't see the "screen
door". You are seeing, apparently, something else.

Whatever it is, I don't see it. HD images and very good SD images on my LCD
RPTV are not "grainy" at all. Where I do see some grain is in images
recorded on my DVR and then displayed on the TV set. But those are SD 480i
or 480p (currently, I am uploading them at 480i since the TV set converts
everything to progressive anyway), not HD or even original-signal SD.

mack
austin

"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p 8idnV1KlbdbBnfcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>
> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
> message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
>> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from
>> less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked like
>> an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>
> Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
> lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I can
> see. In other words, I can no longer make out the horizontal/vertical
> lines of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could have lived with it, no
> problem. It just made the HD content look "grainy" to me....especially on
> bright/white scenes.
>
>> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a
>> foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or anything
>> else from farther away than that.
>
> I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the other
> 88% of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right TV's for
> "us". Which was the whole point of the post.
>
> Don
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:09:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Walk up to a screen on a window. While standing 2 feet from it, you should
be able to make out the vertical/horizontal lines that make up a screen. If
you move back, you can no longer see the detail of the screen, but you CAN
see something there. Obviously, when objects behind the screen are dark,
the "smear" of the screen is less visible. But when they are
bright/white/yellow/bright green, "I" can see them.

I saw this on every LCD I viewed. You're beginning to sound like I'm the
only person seeing this?

Please dont' tell me what I "apparently" saw in 4 different stores among 8
different LCD sets while watching hd/dvd/analog content.

Like I said, it would NOT have bothered me if I did buy it. But it's THERE.

Don



"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:rdxGd.21336$Z%.19773@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> Sounds to me as though what you are seeing is something about the
> reception, something that makes the picture look "grainy". But I think it
> has nothing to do with the so-called "screen door effect" of all LCD
> screens, which you can only see if you put your nose to the screen. If
> you can't see the components that make up the "screen door", then you
> can't see the "screen door". You are seeing, apparently, something else.
>
> Whatever it is, I don't see it. HD images and very good SD images on my
> LCD RPTV are not "grainy" at all. Where I do see some grain is in images
> recorded on my DVR and then displayed on the TV set. But those are SD
> 480i or 480p (currently, I am uploading them at 480i since the TV set
> converts everything to progressive anyway), not HD or even original-signal
> SD.
>
> mack
> austin
>
> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:p 8idnV1KlbdbBnfcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
>> message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>
>>> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from
>>> less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked like
>>> an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>>
>> Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
>> lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I can
>> see. In other words, I can no longer make out the horizontal/vertical
>> lines of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could have lived with it, no
>> problem. It just made the HD content look "grainy" to me....especially on
>> bright/white scenes.
>>
>>> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a
>>> foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or
>>> anything else from farther away than that.
>>
>> I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the other
>> 88% of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right TV's for
>> "us". Which was the whole point of the post.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:55:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It just made the HD content look
> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.

My local PBS HD channel usually has a fantastic 1080i image, but on certain
documentaries very rarely I can see something which you might call
"grainy". It is most visible in sky or snow areas and reminds me a bit of
the dithering you see in a 256-color GIF image.

I feel this appears primarily in a few isolated scenes shot with a less
sophisticated portable camera and edited into the overall HD program. Some
TV or DVD content may actually have real grain in it... I have the DVD set
of "Brideshead Revisited" which was originally shot on 16mm color negative
film, and despite some genuine grain the 4:3 picture is very watchable even
when zoomed to 16:9.

Another consideration is that at times a TV station may simply broadcast
its SD signal on an HD channel, with a considerable loss of quality. For
example, here in the Wash DC area ABC's ice skating was HDTV at 4 PM but
the second segment at 8 PM was only SD, even on ABC's HD channel.

There are so many variables in viewing, I doubt in-store judgements of any
particular are very valid unless you watch a long time on different sources
and program content... not to mention the fact that sets in stores are
usually set to their most eye-catching and inaccurate "vivid" setting.

I view my Sony 42" RPLCD from 9' and enjoy "picture window" clarity without
any "screen door" effect. The Jay Leno show at 1080i is so sharp and clean
I doubt the picture would look better aboard the starship Enterprise.

--
Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 10:48:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
(in part):
>
>"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:CL2dnVEcxrqk3XTcRVn-hg@comcast.com...
>> As far as the "screen door" effect, on all 3 of the 60xs955's I saw/almost
>> bought, the only time I could make out the geometry(the actual
>> lines/detail) of the "screen door" was when viewing about 3'. However,
>> back as far as 10' I noticed another bothersome problem. The image
>> appeared to be moving BEHIND the screen door which at that distance,
>> looked more like a mask then a screen. I found myself then looking for
>> it. It was as if the image was 3" BEHIND the screen and moving around
>> while the "screen door" stayed still. I especially noticed that problem on
>> bright scenes/video.
>
>I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from less
>than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked like an image
>moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>
>mack
>austin
>
I see the same effect, but it has nothing to do with screen-door. I
have a glass beaded screen, which I got for my first projector years
ago. It was a 3-beam CRT that needed all the screen gain it could get
and was still too dim. This is definitely the wrong choice for my
current LCD projector; I should replace it with one of the high
contrast gray ones. But in addition to all the marks acquired over
the years from bugs I didn't notice when I rolled it up, I can see the
grain of the beads as a kind of non-moving noise pattern. Most
noticeable on well-lit scenes with camera movement. Maybe M-Tech has
a beaded screen or one with another visible pattern.

Del Mibbler
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 10:48:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

We're talking REAR projection TV's:-)

Don

"Del Mibbler" <mibbler@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9bglu017apdkdg6h255aa9f52l08kg54q6@4ax.com...
Maybe M-Tech has
> a beaded screen or one with another visible pattern.
>
> Del Mibbler
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 10:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

LOL!! Boy, you LCD guys sure are a defensive bunch!!

What you are describing happens on ALL TV's...heck even plasmas. At least
the one's I saw.

Don

"Charles Gillen" <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95E0B66BA1B49gillen@216.194.192.13...
> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It just made the HD content look
>> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.
>
> My local PBS HD channel usually has a fantastic 1080i image, but on
> certain
> documentaries very rarely I can see something which you might call
> "grainy". It is most visible in sky or snow areas and reminds me a bit of
> the dithering you see in a 256-color GIF image.
>
> I feel this appears primarily in a few isolated scenes shot with a less
> sophisticated portable camera and edited into the overall HD program.
> Some
> TV or DVD content may actually have real grain in it... I have the DVD set
> of "Brideshead Revisited" which was originally shot on 16mm color negative
> film, and despite some genuine grain the 4:3 picture is very watchable
> even
> when zoomed to 16:9.
>
> Another consideration is that at times a TV station may simply broadcast
> its SD signal on an HD channel, with a considerable loss of quality. For
> example, here in the Wash DC area ABC's ice skating was HDTV at 4 PM but
> the second segment at 8 PM was only SD, even on ABC's HD channel.
>
> There are so many variables in viewing, I doubt in-store judgements of any
> particular are very valid unless you watch a long time on different
> sources
> and program content... not to mention the fact that sets in stores are
> usually set to their most eye-catching and inaccurate "vivid" setting.
>
> I view my Sony 42" RPLCD from 9' and enjoy "picture window" clarity
> without
> any "screen door" effect. The Jay Leno show at 1080i is so sharp and
> clean
> I doubt the picture would look better aboard the starship Enterprise.
>
> --
> Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
> Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 12:19:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sony KF42WE620 was the best kick for the buck. Though this RPLCD has look
through microdisplay, the screen door effect can be seen only if you put
your nose against the screen or use a magnifier from an inch distance. It is
difficult to imagine what LCoS microdisplay technology can improve on this.
Maybe 1080p full HD resolution if your vision is good enough to see the
difference.


"Charles Gillen" <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95E0B66BA1B49gillen@216.194.192.13...
> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It just made the HD content look
>> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.
>
> My local PBS HD channel usually has a fantastic 1080i image, but on
> certain
> documentaries very rarely I can see something which you might call
> "grainy". It is most visible in sky or snow areas and reminds me a bit of
> the dithering you see in a 256-color GIF image.
>
> I feel this appears primarily in a few isolated scenes shot with a less
> sophisticated portable camera and edited into the overall HD program.
> Some
> TV or DVD content may actually have real grain in it... I have the DVD set
> of "Brideshead Revisited" which was originally shot on 16mm color negative
> film, and despite some genuine grain the 4:3 picture is very watchable
> even
> when zoomed to 16:9.
>
> Another consideration is that at times a TV station may simply broadcast
> its SD signal on an HD channel, with a considerable loss of quality. For
> example, here in the Wash DC area ABC's ice skating was HDTV at 4 PM but
> the second segment at 8 PM was only SD, even on ABC's HD channel.
>
> There are so many variables in viewing, I doubt in-store judgements of any
> particular are very valid unless you watch a long time on different
> sources
> and program content... not to mention the fact that sets in stores are
> usually set to their most eye-catching and inaccurate "vivid" setting.
>
> I view my Sony 42" RPLCD from 9' and enjoy "picture window" clarity
> without
> any "screen door" effect. The Jay Leno show at 1080i is so sharp and
> clean
> I doubt the picture would look better aboard the starship Enterprise.
>
> --
> Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
> Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 5:33:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

No problem. I believe that you do see what you say you see. Just glad I
don't.

Last night, I was watching an SD program, pre-recorded on hard drive with my
Panasonic E80 DVR, played back on the Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD RPTV. That
introduces a certain amount of grain to the picture. I noticed that if I
thought about it this way, the picture did kind of seem to "move behind" the
grain.

I think that is because the grain is pretty much the same over the entire
picture and is related to the reproduction of the signal, not what was
originally shot. So when someone in the picture walks, for example, the
grain is the same wherever the person walks and the person therefore appears
to walk "behind" it.

So, OK, I could see how someone could fixate on some negative aspect of
reproduction of a signal that was the same across the entire screen and see
movement "behind" the negative thing.

It's not the "screen door effect", though. That's not visible from anywhere
but nose-on-screen position or close to it.


mack
austin


"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z7ednVWtr8nXLHfcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
> Walk up to a screen on a window. While standing 2 feet from it, you
> should be able to make out the vertical/horizontal lines that make up a
> screen. If you move back, you can no longer see the detail of the screen,
> but you CAN see something there. Obviously, when objects behind the
> screen are dark, the "smear" of the screen is less visible. But when they
> are bright/white/yellow/bright green, "I" can see them.
>
> I saw this on every LCD I viewed. You're beginning to sound like I'm the
> only person seeing this?
>
> Please dont' tell me what I "apparently" saw in 4 different stores among 8
> different LCD sets while watching hd/dvd/analog content.
>
> Like I said, it would NOT have bothered me if I did buy it. But it's
> THERE.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
> message news:rdxGd.21336$Z%.19773@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>> Sounds to me as though what you are seeing is something about the
>> reception, something that makes the picture look "grainy". But I think
>> it has nothing to do with the so-called "screen door effect" of all LCD
>> screens, which you can only see if you put your nose to the screen. If
>> you can't see the components that make up the "screen door", then you
>> can't see the "screen door". You are seeing, apparently, something else.
>>
>> Whatever it is, I don't see it. HD images and very good SD images on my
>> LCD RPTV are not "grainy" at all. Where I do see some grain is in images
>> recorded on my DVR and then displayed on the TV set. But those are SD
>> 480i or 480p (currently, I am uploading them at 480i since the TV set
>> converts everything to progressive anyway), not HD or even
>> original-signal SD.
>>
>> mack
>> austin
>>
>> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:p 8idnV1KlbdbBnfcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
>>> in message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>>
>>>> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from
>>>> less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked
>>>> like an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>>>
>>> Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
>>> lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I can
>>> see. In other words, I can no longer make out the horizontal/vertical
>>> lines of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could have lived with it, no
>>> problem. It just made the HD content look "grainy" to me....especially
>>> on bright/white scenes.
>>>
>>>> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a
>>>> foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or
>>>> anything else from farther away than that.
>>>
>>> I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the other
>>> 88% of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right TV's
>>> for "us". Which was the whole point of the post.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 12:51:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

With your nose against the screen eh? LOL

Don

"lotus" <tohuva@bohu.com> wrote in message
news:nRPGd.5836$YI4.637307@wagner.videotron.net...
> Sony KF42WE620 was the best kick for the buck. Though this RPLCD has look
> through microdisplay, the screen door effect can be seen only if you put
> your nose against the screen or use a magnifier from an inch distance. It
> is difficult to imagine what LCoS microdisplay technology can improve on
> this. Maybe 1080p full HD resolution if your vision is good enough to see
> the difference.
>
>
> "Charles Gillen" <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95E0B66BA1B49gillen@216.194.192.13...
>> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It just made the HD content look
>>> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.
>>
>> My local PBS HD channel usually has a fantastic 1080i image, but on
>> certain
>> documentaries very rarely I can see something which you might call
>> "grainy". It is most visible in sky or snow areas and reminds me a bit
>> of
>> the dithering you see in a 256-color GIF image.
>>
>> I feel this appears primarily in a few isolated scenes shot with a less
>> sophisticated portable camera and edited into the overall HD program.
>> Some
>> TV or DVD content may actually have real grain in it... I have the DVD
>> set
>> of "Brideshead Revisited" which was originally shot on 16mm color
>> negative
>> film, and despite some genuine grain the 4:3 picture is very watchable
>> even
>> when zoomed to 16:9.
>>
>> Another consideration is that at times a TV station may simply broadcast
>> its SD signal on an HD channel, with a considerable loss of quality. For
>> example, here in the Wash DC area ABC's ice skating was HDTV at 4 PM but
>> the second segment at 8 PM was only SD, even on ABC's HD channel.
>>
>> There are so many variables in viewing, I doubt in-store judgements of
>> any
>> particular are very valid unless you watch a long time on different
>> sources
>> and program content... not to mention the fact that sets in stores are
>> usually set to their most eye-catching and inaccurate "vivid" setting.
>>
>> I view my Sony 42" RPLCD from 9' and enjoy "picture window" clarity
>> without
>> any "screen door" effect. The Jay Leno show at 1080i is so sharp and
>> clean
>> I doubt the picture would look better aboard the starship Enterprise.
>>
>> --
>> Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
>> Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
>
>
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 12:58:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Nah, I can see the vertical and horizontal lines clearly out to 3 feet.
Maybe I just have good vision?

It's not what's "playing". Although bright white scenes REALLY makes me see
the copper colored "grid".

Like I said, it's NOT an issue at 10'. Sure I still see it, but like I said
as well, it would NOT keep me from buying the Sony. Hell, I was ready to
load it up that night, unfortunately, the salesman wasn't ready to release
it...LOL

Don

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:W0QGd.24655$Z%.13229@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> No problem. I believe that you do see what you say you see. Just glad I
> don't.
>
> Last night, I was watching an SD program, pre-recorded on hard drive with
> my Panasonic E80 DVR, played back on the Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD RPTV. That
> introduces a certain amount of grain to the picture. I noticed that if I
> thought about it this way, the picture did kind of seem to "move behind"
> the grain.
>
> I think that is because the grain is pretty much the same over the entire
> picture and is related to the reproduction of the signal, not what was
> originally shot. So when someone in the picture walks, for example, the
> grain is the same wherever the person walks and the person therefore
> appears to walk "behind" it.
>
> So, OK, I could see how someone could fixate on some negative aspect of
> reproduction of a signal that was the same across the entire screen and
> see movement "behind" the negative thing.
>
> It's not the "screen door effect", though. That's not visible from
> anywhere but nose-on-screen position or close to it.
>
>
> mack
> austin
>
>
> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:z7ednVWtr8nXLHfcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
>> Walk up to a screen on a window. While standing 2 feet from it, you
>> should be able to make out the vertical/horizontal lines that make up a
>> screen. If you move back, you can no longer see the detail of the
>> screen, but you CAN see something there. Obviously, when objects behind
>> the screen are dark, the "smear" of the screen is less visible. But when
>> they are bright/white/yellow/bright green, "I" can see them.
>>
>> I saw this on every LCD I viewed. You're beginning to sound like I'm the
>> only person seeing this?
>>
>> Please dont' tell me what I "apparently" saw in 4 different stores among
>> 8 different LCD sets while watching hd/dvd/analog content.
>>
>> Like I said, it would NOT have bothered me if I did buy it. But it's
>> THERE.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
>> message news:rdxGd.21336$Z%.19773@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>> Sounds to me as though what you are seeing is something about the
>>> reception, something that makes the picture look "grainy". But I think
>>> it has nothing to do with the so-called "screen door effect" of all LCD
>>> screens, which you can only see if you put your nose to the screen. If
>>> you can't see the components that make up the "screen door", then you
>>> can't see the "screen door". You are seeing, apparently, something
>>> else.
>>>
>>> Whatever it is, I don't see it. HD images and very good SD images on my
>>> LCD RPTV are not "grainy" at all. Where I do see some grain is in
>>> images recorded on my DVR and then displayed on the TV set. But those
>>> are SD 480i or 480p (currently, I am uploading them at 480i since the TV
>>> set converts everything to progressive anyway), not HD or even
>>> original-signal SD.
>>>
>>> mack
>>> austin
>>>
>>> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:p 8idnV1KlbdbBnfcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
>>>> in message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door" from
>>>>> less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that looked
>>>>> like an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
>>>> lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I
>>>> can see. In other words, I can no longer make out the
>>>> horizontal/vertical lines of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could
>>>> have lived with it, no problem. It just made the HD content look
>>>> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.
>>>>
>>>>> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about a
>>>>> foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or
>>>>> anything else from farther away than that.
>>>>
>>>> I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the
>>>> other 88% of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right
>>>> TV's for "us". Which was the whole point of the post.
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 12:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

If you are seeing "copper colored lines" on the screen at 10 feet, then you
are certainly seeing something that is not supposed to be there and is
definitely NOT there on my screen, not matter what the channel or program.
It would be interesting to have a knowledgeable tech person look at what you
are looking at and give you an opinion as to what it is. Of course, if he
doesn't see anything...

mack
austin


"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XfqdnWmHXKRtUXDcRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> Nah, I can see the vertical and horizontal lines clearly out to 3 feet.
> Maybe I just have good vision?
>
> It's not what's "playing". Although bright white scenes REALLY makes me
> see the copper colored "grid".
>
> Like I said, it's NOT an issue at 10'. Sure I still see it, but like I
> said as well, it would NOT keep me from buying the Sony. Hell, I was
> ready to load it up that night, unfortunately, the salesman wasn't ready
> to release it...LOL
>
> Don
>
> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
> message news:W0QGd.24655$Z%.13229@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>> No problem. I believe that you do see what you say you see. Just glad I
>> don't.
>>
>> Last night, I was watching an SD program, pre-recorded on hard drive with
>> my Panasonic E80 DVR, played back on the Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD RPTV. That
>> introduces a certain amount of grain to the picture. I noticed that if I
>> thought about it this way, the picture did kind of seem to "move behind"
>> the grain.
>>
>> I think that is because the grain is pretty much the same over the entire
>> picture and is related to the reproduction of the signal, not what was
>> originally shot. So when someone in the picture walks, for example, the
>> grain is the same wherever the person walks and the person therefore
>> appears to walk "behind" it.
>>
>> So, OK, I could see how someone could fixate on some negative aspect of
>> reproduction of a signal that was the same across the entire screen and
>> see movement "behind" the negative thing.
>>
>> It's not the "screen door effect", though. That's not visible from
>> anywhere but nose-on-screen position or close to it.
>>
>>
>> mack
>> austin
>>
>>
>> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:z7ednVWtr8nXLHfcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
>>> Walk up to a screen on a window. While standing 2 feet from it, you
>>> should be able to make out the vertical/horizontal lines that make up a
>>> screen. If you move back, you can no longer see the detail of the
>>> screen, but you CAN see something there. Obviously, when objects behind
>>> the screen are dark, the "smear" of the screen is less visible. But
>>> when they are bright/white/yellow/bright green, "I" can see them.
>>>
>>> I saw this on every LCD I viewed. You're beginning to sound like I'm
>>> the only person seeing this?
>>>
>>> Please dont' tell me what I "apparently" saw in 4 different stores among
>>> 8 different LCD sets while watching hd/dvd/analog content.
>>>
>>> Like I said, it would NOT have bothered me if I did buy it. But it's
>>> THERE.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
>>> in message news:rdxGd.21336$Z%.19773@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>>> Sounds to me as though what you are seeing is something about the
>>>> reception, something that makes the picture look "grainy". But I think
>>>> it has nothing to do with the so-called "screen door effect" of all LCD
>>>> screens, which you can only see if you put your nose to the screen. If
>>>> you can't see the components that make up the "screen door", then you
>>>> can't see the "screen door". You are seeing, apparently, something
>>>> else.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever it is, I don't see it. HD images and very good SD images on
>>>> my LCD RPTV are not "grainy" at all. Where I do see some grain is in
>>>> images recorded on my DVR and then displayed on the TV set. But those
>>>> are SD 480i or 480p (currently, I am uploading them at 480i since the
>>>> TV set converts everything to progressive anyway), not HD or even
>>>> original-signal SD.
>>>>
>>>> mack
>>>> austin
>>>>
>>>> "M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:p 8idnV1KlbdbBnfcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
>>>>> in message news:EXvGd.21172$Z%.1700@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand this. If you could only see the "screen door"
>>>>>> from less than 3 feet away, then how could you see something that
>>>>>> looked like an image moving BEHIND a "screen door" from 10 feet away?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps confusing, I said from less than 3' I can see the actual
>>>>> lines/detail..at about 10' the screen effect becomes a "mask" that I
>>>>> can see. In other words, I can no longer make out the
>>>>> horizontal/vertical lines of the grid/screen. Like I said, I could
>>>>> have lived with it, no problem. It just made the HD content look
>>>>> "grainy" to me....especially on bright/white scenes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a KDF-60XS955 and can't see a "screen door" unless I am about
>>>>>> a foot away and nothing like images moving behind a screen door or
>>>>>> anything else from farther away than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a Mits 62725 and have never seen a rainbow...along with the
>>>>> other 88% of DLP owners:-) So it sounds like we both bought the right
>>>>> TV's for "us". Which was the whole point of the post.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
January 20, 2005 5:57:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

lol.....
I tried watching the screen with my nose pressed right up against it and
somehow that didn't feel like the correct way to watch any kind of program.
Who thinks up this kind of crazy activity anyway?

Paul

"M-Tech" <mechtechllc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z4qdnaS3VN1CTnfcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> We're talking REAR projection TV's:-)
>
> Don
>
> "Del Mibbler" <mibbler@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:9bglu017apdkdg6h255aa9f52l08kg54q6@4ax.com...
> Maybe M-Tech has
>> a beaded screen or one with another visible pattern.
>>
>> Del Mibbler
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 1:55:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sony's trinitron technology used to be like that, only one company producing
it. Unfortunately, TI keeps the DLP prices high. This is where the image
problems come from, only one DLP chip has to produce all colors. LCD
displays use three chips, one each for red, green and blue. DLP technology
is inherently better than LCD. Better saturation, black levels, less space
between pixels reducing the screen door effect, faster action for less
smearing.
If we could just get three chip DLP's now at a good price, we wouldn't have
any discussions about what's better.

"lotus" <tohuva@bohu.com> wrote in message
news:B7RFd.23025$UT4.736343@wagner.videotron.net...
> DLP technology is based on vibrating tiny mirrors and produced by only one
> company. I would never buy anything with those base conditions. No wonder
> the image DLP produce has problems and the resolution is limited.
>
> The screen door effect of TFT based LCD and similar technologies are the
> nature of the beast. Control circuits take place and every through light
> system has that problem.
>
> Reflective light systems like LCoS, a liquid crystal layer on top of the
> back driving circuitry does not disturb the light pass because there is no
> through light instead reflects. It has no screen door effect. Plus it has
> a seemingly unlimited progress possibility towards higher resolutions.
> Additionally the single lamp light source provides almost unlimited life
> expectancy, since changing the relatively cheap ($200) lamp, you get a new
> TV. Plasma is just the opposite.
>
> What I really do not know though is what kind of microdisplay technology
> is used in my excellent Sony Grand Wega rear projector. One can find
> contradictory definitions. Got no response from Sony!
>
> "CJ" <chrisj@illicom.net> wrote in message
> news:fNSEd.234$cQ1.85484@newshog.newsread.com...
>> Does anyone have an LCD projection where the black levels look good.
>> I don't expect them to be perfect, but it just seems the picture and
>> color on LCD projection have DLP beat, but the black levels are my only
>> concern.
>>
>
>
!