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CPU/GPU Pairing

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May 31, 2007 3:44:43 AM

My apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but my question revolves around which C2D CPU to match with my 640MB 8800GTS.

When I first built my system, I bought that GPU and an E6300 (the GTX was too expensive and the E6300 had a nice price entry point and OCs very nicely).

I hear that the CPU is becoming the bottleneck for these newer GPU's. Intel is getting ready to do some price chopping on its quad's in July, so I am thinking this is a good as time as any to get one. However, I wanted to hear from those with more knowledge in this area and what they think or what they would recommend.

I am not planning on changing the GPU as the GTX's are still priced too high for my tastes, and I hate the power/case size requirements. The game I play most is FSX.

TIA.

More about : cpu gpu pairing

a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2007 3:53:53 AM

Depends on your resolution. The smaller the res, the greater demand on the cpu, the larger, the greater on the gpu, having to keep up trying to fill that res. If I remember correctly, only the GTX and the Ultra will really see bottlenecking of any kind at over 3Ghz. Your GTS should get everything it can out of itself with that QC. As games get more complex, they will start to put a higher demand on those (GTX/Ultra) as well, thus elimanting the bottleneck
May 31, 2007 4:17:16 AM

I suggest you save your money for xmas. The G92, penry, DDR3, P35, and blueray should be on the list. While some arent that important both G92 and penry having an xmas release is big.
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May 31, 2007 5:18:08 AM

So even my opty165(say at stock speeds) paired with a 8800gts at 1280x720 wouldn't have a fear of any bottlenecks?
May 31, 2007 6:15:48 AM

what about Pentium D 820 + GTS-320 + 2 Gb ddr2 667mhz + games at 1280x1024 res (Fear, HL2, doom 3, prolly oblivion, but al lower res, etc, mainly GPU demanding games i thnk)
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2007 6:51:58 AM

Quote:
So even my opty165(say at stock speeds) paired with a 8800gts at 1280x720 wouldn't have a fear of any bottlenecks?
Youll see some bottlenecks, not sure of that res tho
Quote:
what about Pentium D 820 + GTS-320 + 2 Gb ddr2 667mhz + games at 1280x1024 res
Same, therell be some bottlenecks, but theres one thing to remember about bottlenecks. A bottleneck coming from a cpu usually isnt a concern using a top or near top gpu. The loss or bottleneck is minimal or not a game breaker. Now if the situation is reversed, and the gpu is the major bottleneck using a top or near top cpu, then yes you could have problems. I wish someone would do a review using a top or near top gpu with an old cpu, or better a top or near top cpu using an old gpu . The single greatest improvement you can make on your system is your gfx card for gaming. The ideal is to balance your system. When the 1900 and 7900 gpu's came out, they did a bench testing a Athlon FX60 using these two and several other cards. Using the multiplier, which you can change on the FX series, just like the C2D6800, they underclocked the cpu to other cpu speeds using all the other cards. Using this setup, they didnt see a bottleneck in any of these cards but the 7900 and the 1900 (not the 1800 or 7800) until you reached 2Ghz. At that speed and above, you saw slight but appreciable increases in FPS in those 2 cards. The GTS is better than both os these cards, so yes youll see some bottlenecking, but at this point, its really a small matter. The only situation where you may want to upgrade your cpu is if your minmum FPS just wont get that favorite game, at whatever eyecandy you use to play. Tho, minimum FPS is not as effected regaurding bottlenecking
May 31, 2007 7:14:50 AM

Oops, forgot that part, didn't I? :)  I am using a 19" CRT at 1280*1024, 32 bit color depth. Nothing fancy at all there. I think when I hit the lottery, I am going to get one of those fancy flight sim cockpit desks and use multiple displays!
May 31, 2007 7:27:28 AM

Funny about that: I just built my current system this past Me-Mas, and while I am experiencing some teething problems (especially with the Antec 900 case), I don't think I am prepared to jump to a whole new set of standards when the current ones aren't fully taxed. I've seen some headlines about the new stuff coming out but haven't had a chance to sit down and read them.

Of course, my wife does have an older s939 system; I could easily give her my setup and get something new! :) 

Current specs: EVGA 680i, EVGA 8800GTS 640MB, X-Fi Platinum, 4x WD2500YS 250GB HDDs, Promise TX4302, Plextor PX-755SA, 2GBs Corsair PC-8500C5 (5-5-5-15, 2T, 1066), E6300, Antec 900, PC P&C Silencer 750 Quad (Copper finish).

Note: Something I overlooked when choosing those HDDs is that they are NOT suitable for home use (in WDs own words). I wished I had seen that before getting them, as a couple of them failed fast. No idea why.
May 31, 2007 7:36:47 AM

How can I know if my CPU is bottlenecked?
May 31, 2007 7:57:29 AM

If you can't get it out of the socket with a bottle opener, it is bottlenecked.
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2007 8:02:18 AM

Quote:
How can I know if my CPU is bottlenecked?
Anything under a 2.0ghz athlon using anything over a 1800xt or a 7800 gtx youll see bottlenecking. I know this is vague, but it all depends on your setup, or you can just go with what theabyss said
May 31, 2007 9:45:26 AM

Quote:
How can I know if my CPU is bottlenecked?


If you aren't getting 400 Frames/Second @ 640x480 on Doom 3, you're probably CPU bottlenecked.

:roll:


Seriously though, no CPU of this generation will bottleneck any high end graphics card when you crank up the graphic settings. At 2560x1600 with 16xAA and 16xAF, a 1.8GHz E4300 will produce the same frame rates as a quad-core running @ 3.6 GHz.
May 31, 2007 2:05:47 PM

hey jeedeejohn, toms hardware did a test in ther last system builder where they took a low end cpu and put in a 8800gtx, and it really dident bottle neck to bad. if i remember right, it did better than a cd2 with a 8800gts.
May 31, 2007 3:23:17 PM

That's the problem with the term bottlenecking. The 2 trains of thought are this, my cpu limits my gpu fro achieving its highest possible framerates and my cpu is so limiting my gpu all though powerful does not give a good playing experience. I really believe both, but I think that most people think oh no I have pentium4 and I want to get a gtx but I won't be able to play games very well because my gpu is bottlenecked. The truth of the matter is the gpu is (in most situations) the most critical piece of gaming hardware. Will a p4 hold a gtx back from achieving 200 frames/sec? Probably. Will it make it so a game is not fun to play? No. While I'm not 100% sure, I would guess that a p4 + gtx will outperform (in framerates) a c2d + gts. So, I think the idea of bottlenecking a gtx with a c2d is kind of silly. Maybe not the highest POSSIBLE framerate, but still VERY high.
May 31, 2007 4:00:16 PM

Quote:
I would guess that a p4 + gtx will outperform (in framerates) a c2d + gts.

I'm going to have to disagree. A GPU can only process as much as the CPU sends it. I have an X1950Pro and a P4 and I'm CPU limited. I know this by comparing my benchmarks with those of an X1950Pro paired with a newer generation CPU.
May 31, 2007 4:24:52 PM

And that was with the CPU running @ Stock.
Nobody runs the entry level CPUs at stock.

Increase your CPU to 2.8-3.0Ghz and you won't have any issues.
May 31, 2007 5:32:52 PM

Quote:
I would guess that a p4 + gtx will outperform (in framerates) a c2d + gts.

I'm going to have to disagree. A GPU can only process as much as the CPU sends it. I have an X1950Pro and a P4 and I'm CPU limited. I know this by comparing my benchmarks with those of an X1950Pro paired with a newer generation CPU.

How many FPS are you losing with your P4? comparing it with a C2D
May 31, 2007 5:40:19 PM

Quote:
I would guess that a p4 + gtx will outperform (in framerates) a c2d + gts.

I'm going to have to disagree. A GPU can only process as much as the CPU sends it. I have an X1950Pro and a P4 and I'm CPU limited. I know this by comparing my benchmarks with those of an X1950Pro paired with a newer generation CPU.

How many FPS are you losing with your P4? comparing it with a C2D

Well there are many other differences as well.

What are your ram timings?
What is your FSB?
What chipset are you running?

I suppose if you had a 965P motherboard with DDR2-800 running witrh 4-4-4-12 timings to support your P4 chip you could then say you are CPU bound. If not, there are a host of other factors that will be limiting performance.


Example - Compare the Benches of a e4300 and e6300 at stock speeds and you will see the e6300 well ahead in many places. Why? The default FSB of the e4300 is very low and will create bottle necks. However, if increase the FSB of the e4300 to that of the e6300 they are almost identical in performance.

So the bottle neck was not in the CPU, but those items surrounding the CPU.
May 31, 2007 5:52:06 PM

True, but we're not comparing same generation CPU's. We're comparing an old arch with new arch, multi-core to single-core. It's ridiculous to say that the only thing holding back a P4 is the FSB and memory.
May 31, 2007 5:59:25 PM

My CPU is not a C2D, but at least has dual-core, of course it will be bottlenecked but i hope not much.

Quote:
I'm going to have to disagree. A GPU can only process as much as the CPU sends it. I have an X1950Pro and a P4 and I'm CPU limited. I know this by comparing my benchmarks with those of an X1950Pro paired with a newer generation CPU.


Im just kinda curious, sorry man.. how many FPS are you losing with your P4 compared to a C2D, gary?
May 31, 2007 6:08:26 PM

I'm at work right now so I can't pull up any numbers for games, but I know my 3dMark scores are several thousand points less than what an X1950Pro is capable of. Which I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong, I'm actually pretty happy with the performance of my system in games, but I know it's limitations and it's weak points. The P4 is one of them.
May 31, 2007 6:15:09 PM

ah i see.. well ill be comparing the FPS with a PD 820..


would u say PD 820 > P4 ? both @ 2.8 ghz
May 31, 2007 8:04:13 PM

My pc was acting up after I installed a 7100gs,opened the side panel and whatdoyouknow...a 12 ounce budwiser bottle,bottlenecked 8O .To my surprise I thought I'd been haveing a brew now an then but never gave it a second thought of why it was mysteriously missing...If your stash has come up a few short,CHECK YOUR COMPUTER,bottlenecking could become an epidemic if left untreated,if the thought that this might be occuring to you contact your nearest AA and report in full detail...Just doing my civil duties,Because I....am Batman.
May 31, 2007 8:09:32 PM

My pc was acting up after I installed a 7100gs,opened the side panel and whatdoyouknow...a 12 ounce budwiser bottle,bottlenecked 8O .To my surprise I thought I'd been haveing a brew now an then but never gave it a second thought of why it was mysteriously missing...If your stash has come up a few short,CHECK YOUR COMPUTER,bottlenecking could become an epidemic if left untreated,if the thought that this might be occuring to you contact your nearest AA and report in full detail...Just doing my civil duties,Because I....am Batman.
May 31, 2007 9:33:40 PM

Quote:
I would guess that a p4 + gtx will outperform (in framerates) a c2d + gts.

I'm going to have to disagree. A GPU can only process as much as the CPU sends it. I have an X1950Pro and a P4 and I'm CPU limited. I know this by comparing my benchmarks with those of an X1950Pro paired with a newer generation CPU.
But Gary, and I am by know means schooled on this subject, don't you think that perhaps an 8800 with your p4 would outperform your 1950pro with a c2d. I am not really sure, but my feeling is that even with the 8800 being very limited it would still perform better. Of course if you throw in ultra high res and AA the cpu becomes less of a limiting factor. Like I said though- I'm really just going off gut feeling. You know it's too bad I have a damn Dell for our family computer. It has a p4 630 and I have an x1600xt laying around. If this Dell had a real psu I could pop my 8800 in it and put that 1600 in my game rig (e6600@2.925) and make a comparison. All though those cards probably wouldn't really make for a fair comparison, it would illustrate to a degree that while limited, gpu power (I believe) still rules.
May 31, 2007 10:27:29 PM

Intresting,If anyone has data like this post it...or leave a link.Alot of us gamers are looking for the ultimate experience but are not willing to shell out the clams to find out our cpu's are not going to handle it,thanx :D  .
May 31, 2007 11:27:16 PM

Yeah, that would be awesome to compare something like a 8800gts with p4 and 1950pro-ish card and a c2d. You know there are some guys out there with a couple systems on hand that could make something like that happen. Would the 8800 be crippled to a point where the 1950 would come out on top? Give us a hand, mighty gurus of the forums!
May 31, 2007 11:30:09 PM

Maybe if noone posts, we will have to start a thread with an appropriate title to lure some replies.
May 31, 2007 11:41:04 PM

It depends what game you're playing, and how that game is weighted, i.e. CPU or GPU heavy.

Why don't you just look around on the net for benchmarks on the systems you want, even Futuremark, rather than expecting others to do all the work for you?
May 31, 2007 11:48:19 PM

Ouch dude! I was just thinking that it might be a fun project for someone with the resources that cared to share REAL WORLD numbers with us. My system is fine and I don't need anyone to do work for me. It was just an interesting thought. No need to bite my head off. Man you are grouchy.
June 1, 2007 2:45:22 AM

Quote:
Funny about that: I just built my current system this past Me-Mas, and while I am experiencing some teething problems (especially with the Antec 900 case), I don't think I am prepared to jump to a whole new set of standards when the current ones aren't fully taxed. I've seen some headlines about the new stuff coming out but haven't had a chance to sit down and read them.

Of course, my wife does have an older s939 system; I could easily give her my setup and get something new! :) 

Current specs: EVGA 680i, EVGA 8800GTS 640MB, X-Fi Platinum, 4x WD2500YS 250GB HDDs, Promise TX4302, Plextor PX-755SA, 2GBs Corsair PC-8500C5 (5-5-5-15, 2T, 1066), E6300, Antec 900, PC P&C Silencer 750 Quad (Copper finish).

Note: Something I overlooked when choosing those HDDs is that they are NOT suitable for home use (in WDs own words). I wished I had seen that before getting them, as a couple of them failed fast. No idea why.

Quad core would be nice but the only review ive seen where a new game takes advantage is supreme commander. It kind of uses a quad core as 3 cores almost doubles the fps but theres almost no advantage to the 4th core.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/660-3/supreme-comman...
The thing is a good OC'ed C2D will outperform on average an OC'ed C2Q until games start taking advantage of the extra cores. If you'll have the money for a new rig come xmas I would give your old system to your wife.

I find that most CPU upgrade dont have the performance worth the price. The cost of your old CPU must be added into the upgrade cost because it becomes a paper weight. By waiting you not only get a new system you also get your wifes old system for a server.
a b U Graphics card
June 1, 2007 12:00:13 PM

Quote:
It depends what game you're playing, and how that game is weighted, i.e. CPU or GPU heavy.

Why don't you just look around on the net for benchmarks on the systems you want, even Futuremark, rather than expecting others to do all the work for you?
Even tho this sounds logical, youre still going to have to find the same testbeds and the same areas of games benched. Alot of sites have their own areas they use, so even if it is apples to apples, which may be extremely hard to find, you still run into the game and how (AA,HDR etc) and where (what part of oblivion?) for pomparisons. Youll get a fuzzy picture. One testbench, same games areas, and same eye candy with same settings etc is the only way to go
June 1, 2007 2:39:14 PM

here you go ladies :wink:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_m...

toms hardware did a system build showing what you could build with various budgets and likely performance ranges for this.
at the end of it they used a 3800+ 1gb of ram, etc. (a "basic" budget system) and put a 8800gtx with it.
they then compared it to a midrange system paired with a 8800gts 320mb.
that link will take u to the set up of the comparing systems and then look at the following pages to see the results.
interesting test they did, worth a read aswell.

hope this helps,
enjoy
a b U Graphics card
June 1, 2007 3:26:32 PM

OOOOOPS :oops: 
June 1, 2007 4:13:40 PM

nice find... just what i wanted.

do you think the results be the same having a GTS-320 as a high end card, and say a 7800gt as a low-end ( this one would go in the basic budget system)

i guess it would be the same effect.. just lower FPS.

btw im just curious.. would u say a PD 820 > P4 ? both @ 2.8 ghz, i ask this because i have nother computer with this cpu, 512 of DDR ram, and it seems to run faster than another comp which has a PD 820 and 512 DDR2 (more Mhz than the ddr one)
June 1, 2007 4:44:24 PM

Quote:
nice find... just what i wanted.

do you think the results be the same having a GTS-320 as a high end card, and say a 7800gt as a low-end ( this one would go in the basic budget system)

i guess it would be the same effect.. just lower FPS.

btw im just curious.. would u say a PD 820 > P4 ? both @ 2.8 ghz, i ask this because i have nother computer with this cpu, 512 of DDR ram, and it seems to run faster than another comp which has a PD 820 and 512 DDR2 (more Mhz than the ddr one)

Yes the same as any compare between a 2 and 1Gb system compare would be. PDC22G6400LLK is near three times the cost for a reason. LOL this is the dumbest benchmark of all times.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...
I find it funny that the budget system so crippled beats the mid range at and above 1600X1200. What this benchmark says to me is the GPU is the most important choice for games. Both CPU and RAM is secondary to the GPU. I would not have guess both were secondary but lol makes my happy with my X2 3600.
June 1, 2007 5:11:07 PM

hahah well me too.. ill be pairing up a GTS-320, PD 820, and 2 GB of 667mhz


kinda similar to your system. except for the cpu.
!