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e6600: is heat the culprit here?

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June 1, 2007 12:35:43 PM

Hi

Built a new PC (my first time) and I'm having major problems with the hl2 game day of defeat source. Randomly I will get major fps drops down to single digits... also my fps average will drop from 100 to the 30s after 5-10 of playing or so.

I downloaded speedfan and saw that my core temps at idle are in the low to mid 40s... launching dod:s makes the temp jump 10 degrees and actually PLAYING the game takes it over 70 degrees.

According to a good friend who has the same setup (but with a lower-end card) there's no way this should be happening. He gets 120 fps constant and suggested it's a heat problem. He pointed out that his core idles @ 27 and when he plays it doesn't go higher than mid 30s.

1. I didn't use any thermal paste because I didn't have any (I didn't know I needed it).

2. It's possible the heatsink isn't seated firmly enough I guess, since I mounted it after I seated the heatsink into the case.

What do you guys think?

More about : e6600 heat culprit

June 1, 2007 1:21:56 PM

are you overclocking and if so, using what hsf? i recently got mine to 3.6 but it was unstable as hell, shutting down bf2 after about 8 minutes of playing (similar to your problem) so i pulled it back to a nice round number. Also what graphics card are you using and from which manufacturer?

You can check to see if its stable enough using prime 95, download it and unzip it to two different locations, so you can start it up twice individually and start a torture test (the second one down in the options, in place large tfts). Once you have one runing go to task manager, find it under processes(PRIME95.exe) and set affinity to cpu 0. Start the other one and do the same, but this time set it to cpu 1. Let the tests go on and if there's no failure after about 10-15 minutes you should be fine. If there is though, you definatly have a problem with heat, maybe thermal paste on wrong, overclocked too much or just a piss poor hsf
June 1, 2007 1:25:50 PM

No bro, running completely stock.

Vid card is a PNY 7600GT with latest drivers... it's temp is mid 50s while playing the game.

As I said, my friend with the same CPU (not oc'd either) with a worse vid card gets 120 fps constant.
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June 1, 2007 1:30:26 PM

You need some paste on that thing. what happend to the stock paste on the heatsink, did you wipe it off?
June 1, 2007 1:35:12 PM

Quote:
You need some paste on that thing. what happend to the stock paste on the heatsink, did you wipe it off?


No the stock stuff is there...
June 1, 2007 1:42:11 PM

the only thing i can say is to reseat the heatsink
June 1, 2007 1:47:38 PM

Quote:
the only thing i can say is to reseat the heatsink


I'm going to reseat it AND put some arctic silver on it.

I was asking though, if temperatures that high (70+ celcius) would cause the CPU performance to scale back... if so this would explain the huge performance drops I see while gaming.
June 1, 2007 1:54:42 PM

yes, aas soon as you hit 68-70 degrees celcius, things start to mess up. normally just shuts down whats making it hot but i suppose it might scale back performance, i've never seen it happen though
June 1, 2007 1:59:51 PM

There are 3 heat sensors in the CPU, one for each core measuring the so-called junction temperature, and one between the cores (presumably) measuring the so-called case temperature. This refers to the CPU casing, not your PC case. Not sure which Speedfan measures. I find the best way to measure and heat-test the CPU is with TAT.EXE (Intel Thermal Analysis Tool).

The case temperature is always much lower than the junction temps. Having said that, even the junction temps on my E6600 are much lower, namely:

Idle: High 20s to low 30 degrees C.
Load (ORTHOS): Less than 50C.
Thermal testing (TAT): Creeping up to about 55C.

That's even overclocked to 3.05GHz with stock voltage (1.325V). I have never reached temps beyond 70C. I think it may well be the CPU throttling back drastically at the very high temps you describe. Intel CPUs can do that alright. Prevents them from going up in smoke.

As another poster mentioned, there should be some strips of thermal compound on the stock heatsink. Is your CPU fan plugged in and working? Has your motherboard accidentally selected the wrong voltage? Get CPUZ to check. Voltage should show as 1.325V or less.
June 1, 2007 2:07:36 PM

Quote:
There are 3 heat sensors in the CPU, one for each core measuring the so-called junction temperature, and one between the cores (presumably) measuring the so-called case temperature. This refers to the CPU casing, not your PC case. Not sure which Speedfan measures. I find the best way to measure and heat-test the CPU is with TAT.EXE (Intel Thermal Analysis Tool).

The case temperature is always much lower than the junction temps. Having said that, even the junction temps on my E6600 are much lower, namely:

Idle: High 20s to low 30 degrees C.
Load (ORTHOS): Less than 50C.
Thermal testing (TAT): Creeping up to about 55C.

That's even overclocked to 3.05GHz with stock voltage (1.325V). I have never reached temps beyond 70C. I think it may well be the CPU throttling back drastically at the very high temps you describe. Intel CPUs can do that alright. Prevents them from going up in smoke.

As another poster mentioned, there should be some strips of thermal compound on the stock heatsink. Is your CPU fan plugged in and working? Has your motherboard accidentally selected the wrong voltage? Get CPUZ to check. Voltage should show as 1.325V or less.


Yes the strips of thermal compound are there.

Yes the fan is on.

As for voltage, I had a friend who has been trying to help me fix this issue who looked at a screenshot of my voltages and he said "they look good" (using speedfan readouts again). I can check it out for sure when I get home though.

But you think high temps would cause the performance drop yes?
June 1, 2007 2:22:01 PM

Yes! What does cpu-z show when it is running that hot?
June 1, 2007 2:22:15 PM

Definitely reseat the the hsf with AS5. Also, make sure the fan is running at full speed. Sometimes the bios based fan speed controler doesn't work well. Either turn off bios control and leave it on full, or use speedfan to control it. Also, make sure you have good airflow in the case. Try running with the side panel off and see if that helps.
June 1, 2007 2:29:16 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I ran the system with the side off last night and it didn't help at all.

I will check fan speed (make sure it's on FULL)

So far you all seem to think this high of a temp is causing major issues... What are the chances I've damaged the CPU?? Everything seems to work fine, except for the performance drops I mentioned while hardcore gaming.
June 1, 2007 2:48:29 PM



Does this apply for the C2D CPUs as well?

I've read different things... some people saying C2Ds DO throttle and some that say they DON'T. Throttling would explain what I'm seeing in-game... and also make me feel better that I probably haven't fried my CPU.
June 1, 2007 2:59:09 PM

Quote:
Does this apply for the C2D CPUs as well?

I wish I knew. I always assumed Intel didn't throw this technology away in their following CPU generations, esp. after Tom's Hardware discovered this nice feature while literally blowing up the competition, but I don't know.
June 1, 2007 3:09:40 PM

I was reading some Intel pdf files and it's pretty vague on the issue... if anyone else knows for sure please chime in.
June 1, 2007 3:24:25 PM

C2D's will def. throttle back if they get too hot.
June 1, 2007 3:34:03 PM

That sounds good =D

I'm guessing 70 degrees celcius is "too hot"?
June 1, 2007 5:11:16 PM

Balls


Radio Shack was out of arctic silver so I had to buy their store brand stuff... will that suffice?
June 1, 2007 5:55:15 PM

I know I'm pretty new around here and opinions are like certain parts of the human anatomy but what I'd do is buy this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

... and remove the "strips" from the stock cooler and then buy this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

...while following these guidelines...

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5...

I've got mine idling in the mid 20's and under load in the mid to upper 30's (starting to hit the low 40's as the house warms due to summer), but I am also using a Scythe Infinity HSF.

Good luck!

Mike
June 1, 2007 5:56:36 PM

It'll work, but you might not get the same results as with AS5.
June 1, 2007 6:02:56 PM

Quote:
That sounds good =D

I'm guessing 70 degrees celcius is "too hot"?


The thermal shut down should be 85C. It should perhaps throttle around 75C.

In dealing with C2D temps, you need to be sure what temp your describing. There are 3 sensors:

Tjunction - Sensor for each core (2)
Tcase - Sensor between the cores (1)

What temp app are you using? Try using Core Temp if you haven't. That will give you Tjunction or core temps.

You can find more helpful info here:

Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide

Edit:

Helpful video on the HSF setup:

Intel Cpu Install
June 1, 2007 7:59:36 PM

Mine runs hotter then most people and runs between 54oC and 68oC (shows up 39oC and 53oC in speed fan), but with the way your's is spiking, it sounds like the heatsink isn't on right.
!