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Is this true on plasmas?

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January 20, 2005 11:26:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
Backwash.
When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
Is this true or is it bull?
Thank,
VietNam Vet

More about : true plasmas

January 21, 2005 12:01:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

some models provides a setup to reduce the luminosity (by 50%) to reduce the
burn in problem.

the http://www.avsforum.com/ web site will help you.

"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
> Backwash.
> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> Is this true or is it bull?
> Thank,
> VietNam Vet
>
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 12:10:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Best BUY is a rip off, and thier prices are inflated. Purchase from a mom &
pop retailler and get value
for your purchase.

Phil

P.S. Best buy is very expensive and they ram the service contracts down your
throat.

"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
> Backwash.
> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> Is this true or is it bull?
> Thank,
> VietNam Vet
>
Related resources
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 11:30:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best buy?
could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?


"Philip B Kirschner" <philk02nospam@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:UGZHd.1658$QC4.1042@fe12.lga...
> Best BUY is a rip off, and thier prices are inflated. Purchase from a mom
&
> pop retailler and get value
> for your purchase.
>
> Phil
>
> P.S. Best buy is very expensive and they ram the service contracts down
your
> throat.
>
> "stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> >I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> > I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because
of
> > burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash
or
> > Backwash.
> > When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> > I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> > That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> > Is this true or is it bull?
> > Thank,
> > VietNam Vet
> >
>
>
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 11:53:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

His comment was a silly over-generalization, but your inability to see the
point is just as silly. Best Buy and similar dealers have their place in
the market. You can sometimes get a good deal there. Many times, however,
there are dealers that provide services that some people value that they do
not and cannot provide. Intelligent buyers recognize the difference between
price and value and the difference between choice and selection. They
choose the dealer who can provide what they need. Ignorant buyers assume
that they always should buy from one or the other types of dealers.

Leonard

"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35cefeF4lbtr5U11@individual.net...
> uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best buy?
> could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?
>
>
> "Philip B Kirschner" <philk02nospam@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:UGZHd.1658$QC4.1042@fe12.lga...
> > Best BUY is a rip off, and thier prices are inflated. Purchase from a
mom
> &
> > pop retailler and get value
> > for your purchase.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > P.S. Best buy is very expensive and they ram the service contracts down
> your
> > throat.
> >
> > "stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> > >I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> > > I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because
> of
> > > burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white
wash
> or
> > > Backwash.
> > > When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> > > I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> > > That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> > > Is this true or is it bull?
> > > Thank,
> > > VietNam Vet
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 1:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> His comment was a silly over-generalization, but your inability to see the
> point is just as silly. Best Buy and similar dealers have their place in
> the market. You can sometimes get a good deal there. Many times, however,
> there are dealers that provide services that some people value that they do
> not and cannot provide. Intelligent buyers recognize the difference between
> price and value and the difference between choice and selection. They
> choose the dealer who can provide what they need. Ignorant buyers assume
> that they always should buy from one or the other types of dealers.

I agree with you. I tend to buy based on price because I don't require
much in the way of support from a retailer. If you want a dealer who
will educate you and perform setup services, you're likely better off
with an independent dealer.

Bargains can be found anywhere in the channel (high-end dealers, mass
market dealers, or web), but I tend to look for them mostly at the mass
market stores. This week, for example, I bought a Velodyne 12" 170 watt
subwoofer and a large Polk CSI5 center channel speaker at a mass market
store for a total of $400. Crutchfield and J&R both show the Polk alone
for that price, and the Velodyne was selling for $499 when it first came
onto the market (it's now discontinued, typical closeout price was
$350). So some careful shopping can turn up real bargains. All you
have to do is to be able to recognize them.
January 21, 2005 2:45:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

stan wrote:
> I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma
because of
> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white
wash or
> Backwash.
> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> Is this true or is it bull?
> Thank,
> VietNam Vet


The sales assoicate is incorrect. Their is no technology to "take the
burn in out" as all Plasma and CRT based sets "burn" phosphor gas as
part of their projection process as the gas burns this causes wear and
uneven wear will be caused by the same image being displayed more often
than others over time. Uneven wear leads to burn in. This is an
inherint problem with CRT and Plasma technology that won't go away.
Some vendors implement features to help reduce the problem, but the
problem is never solved and any sales clerk that tells you otherwise is
either lying to you or (more likely) has been misinformed.

If you're concerned about burn-in, contact the manufactuer and ask them
two questions before you buy:

1. What exactly does the "white wash" feature do
2. Is burn in covered under the warrenty

The answer to number 2 is the one you want to know, if the answer is
"No" ask why not. Most likely burn in is not covered under warrenty (it
never is) and the reason they can't cover it is because they know the
set is prone to it.

If want to buy a set with no risk of burn-in, look at the Sony
GrandWega (LCD) based sets, they are fantastic. Also look at the DLP
sets. LCD and DLP are not subject to burn-in.
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:33:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35cefeF4lbtr5U11@individual.net...
> uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best buy?
> could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?
>
pick any set from cnet.com to see what different retailers are
charging...Best Buy/Circuit City are usually the most expensive.


http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KDF_42WE655/4014-6484_7-30...
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 5:24:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I suggest you check several stores in your area for the TV you want,
including smaller, locally-based stores that you can find via smaller ads in
your local paper and/or the phone book or web. Take your best price to
Sears -- if they have the set you want, they will beat your best price
elsewhere. Sears also has one of the few well-regarded extended service
plans, if that interests you.

mack
austin


"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35cefeF4lbtr5U11@individual.net...
> uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best buy?
> could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?
>
>
> "Philip B Kirschner" <philk02nospam@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:UGZHd.1658$QC4.1042@fe12.lga...
>> Best BUY is a rip off, and thier prices are inflated. Purchase from a mom
> &
>> pop retailler and get value
>> for your purchase.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> P.S. Best buy is very expensive and they ram the service contracts down
> your
>> throat.
>>
>> "stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>> >I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
>> > I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because
> of
>> > burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash
> or
>> > Backwash.
>> > When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
>> > I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
>> > That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
>> > Is this true or is it bull?
>> > Thank,
>> > VietNam Vet
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 10:49:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
> Backwash.
> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> Is this true or is it bull?
> Thank,
> VietNam Vet


BS

burn-in is differential aging (use) of the phosphors, the only way to get
rid of it to display the inverse image of what caused it and allow the other
brighter phosphors to catchup so that the whole screen is dimmer.

That said, the gray side bars are pretty good at averaging out the intensity
so you don't have stripes from 4:3 viewing.
January 22, 2005 3:43:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

So you're willing to accept a lower quality picture just to avoid burn in?
Wrong priorities, son.

"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
> Backwash.
> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> Is this true or is it bull?
> Thank,
> VietNam Vet
>
January 22, 2005 3:43:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>
>"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
>> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because of
>> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash or
>> Backwash.
>> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
>> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
>> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
>> Is this true or is it bull?

I believe what the salesman was saying is that some sets have a
"negative" or reverse display mode that you can try and use to reduce
burn in effects.
January 22, 2005 9:45:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <1106336710.074129.116510@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> jeremy@pdq.net writes:
>stan wrote:
>> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white
>wash or
>> Backwash.
>> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
>> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
>> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
>> Is this true or is it bull?
>> Thank,
>> VietNam Vet
>
>The sales assoicate is incorrect. Their is no technology to "take the
>burn in out" as all Plasma and CRT based sets "burn" phosphor gas as
>part of their projection process as the gas burns this causes wear and
>uneven wear will be caused by the same image being displayed more often
>than others over time.

Several details are wrong in the above.

(1) The phosphor is not a gas.
(2) Plasma systems do not burn, or otherwise consume, the gas.
They pass a small electrical current through it which causes
it to give off ultraviolet light. That ultraviolet light
excites molecules in the phosphor which then gives off visible
light. When the current stops, the gas returns to its original
state.
(3) Plasma systems do not do projection -- they have no "projection process".

One detail of the above is correct:

(*) The sales associate is incorrect.


For more details of what *does* happen, see:
http://www.plasmatvscience.org/theinnerworkings.html


Alan
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:06:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"gerry" <gerry_m@spam_this.com> wrote in message
news:ev34v05s6sd22e7k68lcju13p0c492a7qd@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >"stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> >>I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> >> I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma because
of
> >> burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white wash
or
> >> Backwash.
> >> When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> >> I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> >> That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> >> Is this true or is it bull?
>
> I believe what the salesman was saying is that some sets have a
> "negative" or reverse display mode that you can try and use to reduce
> burn in effects.

The important point to understand with regard to any phosphor based
technology is that once uneven aging (burn-in) occurs, the only way to
mitigate its visibility is to burn the rest of the display while not burning
the more aged area. In other words, trade off more of the life of the set
and further degrade the pix. Whitewash techniques seem pointless to me
because they age the more severely burned area as well as the rest. Unless
the system records the relative excitement level over time of every pixel,
reverse images are pointless as well.

What the salesman should be doing is educating people on avoiding the
problem and getting a reasonable life and better pix from the set.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 3:07:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

when compared to online retailers, sure...when compared to joe's home
theater shop up the road, usually not


"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:csrou5$m04$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> "oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:35cefeF4lbtr5U11@individual.net...
> > uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best
buy?
> > could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?
> >
> pick any set from cnet.com to see what different retailers are
> charging...Best Buy/Circuit City are usually the most expensive.
>
>
>
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KDF_42WE655/4014-6484_7-30...
>
>
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 3:07:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

mom and pop roebuck


"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:cg8Id.39636$_56.28957@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I suggest you check several stores in your area for the TV you want,
> including smaller, locally-based stores that you can find via smaller ads
in
> your local paper and/or the phone book or web. Take your best price to
> Sears -- if they have the set you want, they will beat your best price
> elsewhere. Sears also has one of the few well-regarded extended service
> plans, if that interests you.
>
> mack
> austin
>
>
> "oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:35cefeF4lbtr5U11@individual.net...
> > uh...you're saying that mom and pop shops have lower prices than best
buy?
> > could you point me to one in atlanta? or anywhere?
> >
> >
> > "Philip B Kirschner" <philk02nospam@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > news:UGZHd.1658$QC4.1042@fe12.lga...
> >> Best BUY is a rip off, and thier prices are inflated. Purchase from a
mom
> > &
> >> pop retailler and get value
> >> for your purchase.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> P.S. Best buy is very expensive and they ram the service contracts down
> > your
> >> throat.
> >>
> >> "stan" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:eeWdnbLm6qyix23cRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> >> >I was looking at the new plasmas at Best Buy.
> >> > I told the sales clerk that I am not sure that I want a plasma
because
> > of
> >> > burn in.The sales clerk told me that the new plasma TV has a white
wash
> > or
> >> > Backwash.
> >> > When you turn your set off it will take the burn in out.
> >> > I think that the clerk does not know what he is talking about.
> >> > That`s why I`m going to the news group for the strait answers.
> >> > Is this true or is it bull?
> >> > Thank,
> >> > VietNam Vet
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 12:36:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:


> pick any set from cnet.com to see what different retailers are
> charging...Best Buy/Circuit City are usually the most expensive.

You make no distinction between E-tailers and retailers??????
!