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DX10 software on DX9 hardware

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 4, 2007 2:14:50 PM

Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.
June 4, 2007 2:16:50 PM

well i doubt any of the new dx10 games will be only dx10. most of them will also be playable as dx9. so your card will be able to play them....but will just loose out on some of the eye candy as people like to say.
June 4, 2007 2:23:24 PM

And if you run the 1950XT with vista in a dx10 only game. Will it run then?
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June 4, 2007 2:36:45 PM

There will not be a DX10 Only game for a very long time.

Too many people only have XP or only have DX9 cards with Vista.
We are just getting games that support DX10.
No DX10 only games will be here anytime soon.
June 4, 2007 2:38:53 PM

no it wont but dx10-only games are not faor a couple of years from now. just tell us what is your current rig so we can give your some of our opinions on which card to buy for you.
June 4, 2007 2:50:51 PM

My rig is below.

well, I realy wonder what would you guys have to suggest....

thanks
June 4, 2007 4:55:13 PM

Quote:


My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.


If I had to guess I would say it will be over two years before you see titles that don't support dx9. Some noteworthy titles that left behind old hardware were bf2 leaving behind dx8 and Rainbow Six Vegas this year required shader model 3.0/dx9.0c. I clearly remember a friend downgrading his card when BF2 came out to be able to play it.
June 4, 2007 8:01:49 PM

Yeah thats the thing, you can buy some faster DX9 hardware for the same money. But when dx10 only titles come, you cant even play it... the dx10 hardware cant play it @high in that time :p  but at least you can play it
June 4, 2007 8:52:04 PM

What about if i have a DX10 card, but not vista. Would i take advantage of its dx10 hardware?

Im going to answer myself.. I wont be able to play Dx10 games if i dont have vista, but the cards architecture will help on dx9 games? like right now on dx9 games
June 4, 2007 9:19:56 PM

No. DX10 is for Vista only.

And yes to the 2nd question.
June 4, 2007 9:50:38 PM

Quote:
There will not be a DX10 Only game for a very long time.

Too many people only have XP or only have DX9 cards with Vista.
We are just getting games that support DX10.
No DX10 only games will be here anytime soon.



I hate to tell you this but Alan Wake is DX10 only:

http://www.alanwake.com/

Notice it states for Windows Vista and XBox 360 Only.
June 4, 2007 10:06:36 PM

that sucks...
June 4, 2007 10:24:43 PM

Halo 2 for PC is Vista only but not dx10.
June 4, 2007 10:25:55 PM

Quote:
Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.

Yes but under emulation. If you have ever used emulation you know its many times slower.
June 5, 2007 12:13:32 AM

Quote:
Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.


My advice only .... don't waste your money on a NON DX10 card . The dx10 cards out now are outperforming the dx9 versions on most games now . Why build a new system based on DX10 and go backwards with a soon outdated video card ? The 1950xt is a darn good card but they should be half the price .

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/507/1/
June 5, 2007 5:25:38 AM

Quote:
Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.

Yes but under emulation. If you have ever used emulation you know its many times slower.

what? did u just make that up?

I have yet to see a DX8 based card be able to process PS3.0 in any sort of emulation. Nor have I seen anything about DX9 cards being able to do DX10 stuff under emulation. Maybe I'm wrong but ur post smells of B.S.
June 5, 2007 5:30:03 AM

Quote:
There will not be a DX10 Only game for a very long time.

Too many people only have XP or only have DX9 cards with Vista.
We are just getting games that support DX10.
No DX10 only games will be here anytime soon.



I hate to tell you this but Alan Wake is DX10 only:

http://www.alanwake.com/

Notice it states for Windows Vista and XBox 360 Only.

that's lame. way to alienate 95% of your PC gaming audience M$.

M$ is being so stupid about DX10. They think it'll sell Vista... and clearly it ain't. Vista sale are waaaaaaay below M$'s wacked out predictions. and you know damn well ppl are gonna buy a copy without reading the fine print. yep, these poor sods will take it home, open 'er up, and try to install it on XP. but hey, it won't be M$'s problem. nope... GameStop, Circuit City, and Best Buy will have to deal with it. fcukin M$. real bunch of c*unts they are.

I feel guilty for running Vista. Feels like I'm supporting stupidity. I probably am...
June 5, 2007 6:00:20 AM

Quote:
Quote:

I hate to tell you this but Alan Wake is DX10 only:
http://www.alanwake.com/
Notice it states for Windows Vista and XBox 360 Only.


No, read the faq:

Is Alan Wake exlusive to Windows Vista? If so why?

Petri Järvilehto had this to say on the official Alan Wake forums (18/05/06):

"I'll confirm that Alan Wake is Vista and 360 exclusive. I know some people have reacted strongly to that, but for us this was one of the key decisions that will allow us to create the best possible game.

We've locked this down a while ago, and being able to focus on fewer platforms means that the game is going to kick more ass than ever before. By going with Vista, we don't have to compromise everything to the lowest common PC denominator and since we're not doing a PS3 version we can go all out with PC and 360 multithreading, HDR rendering etc. This focus benefits the tech and game design immensely.

We're really sorry if some end up missing the game because of our platform choice, but in the end of the day we *must* base our decisions on what will let us create the best possible game. That's just how Remedy as a team works: we're passionate about creating something unique. Alan Wake is still our IP and we drive the creative control, but working with Microsoft gives us unprecedented levels of development support, testing resources and so on.

But... as they say, the proof is in the pudding. You guys are going to be the best judges on whether the calls we've made have been the right ones. We haven't really shown anything on what we've been up to in the past year. Once we do, it'll be up to you to see whether our work has been worthwhile."

What kind of specs will the PC need to run Alan Wake?

Nothing is certain about the specifications but you will need Windows Vista and a fairly high spec PC. Remedy have showcased Alan Wake running smoothly on an Intel Core 2 Quad system overclocked at 3.73Ghz with a GeForce 7900GTX.

Markus from Remedy has said “Alan Wake would pretty much not run on any single core processors, although it may be possible to run on single-core Pentium 4 processors with Hyper Threading enabled, with noticably reduced image quality/experience.”

The game will use a separate processing thread dedicated to physical calculations. Since Remedy is using Havok, there is no support for Ageia PhysX cards, so all the physical calculations are done using the CPU. Markus has explained that a normal Core 2 Quad will use 80% of one core for physical calculations.


It makes no sense to make a d3d9 version for the 360, a d3d9 version for Vista to support the old 7900, and then not allow the game to run in XP. I wonder if they'll change this as the only significant thing exclusive to Vista is d3d10. Even the aero interface runs in d3d9!

I guess there aren't enough XP owners with the power to run the game so they're officially letting it run in Vista only?
June 5, 2007 6:00:41 AM

Microsoft is already incorporating this policy in their current game release. Shadowrun just came out in dx9 and is VISTA ONLY. There's a few new anti-theft hoops you have to jump also. I imagine this is all being done to counter piracy. It seems to bind the game to the original purchaser to their operating system or the key code. I havn't tried to transfer ownership, but I get a sneaking suspicion it's not going to be easy to sell any of these games. This sucks too because I really don't like Shadowrun very much. I've also ran into problems similar with digital downloads and the key codes. There's a whole new breed of anti-theft stuff coming out and it's making it tougher on the legit consumer as well.
June 5, 2007 6:06:55 AM

Quote:
And if you run the 1950XT with vista in a dx10 only game. Will it run then?

There is no DX10 only game. IF there was, It will run as DX 9L.
With the right drivers, vista, etc. You will see SOMETHING work.
June 5, 2007 6:11:50 AM

There is nothing wrong with buying a X1950XT now.
Better DX10 cards will be out in 6-12 months anyway
June 5, 2007 8:09:00 AM

man, this post makin me dizzy..... :?

the big quesiton arise when I understand that DX10 is new set, without backword compatibility, and vista also have DX9 emulator (which I understand doesn't do very well).

when DX9 came, it had a backword support, so there was no problem for DX8 cards.
but here I understand that games company must release the game with two DX packs separately, meaning double work for them...... meaning problems for us!!

:( 
June 5, 2007 8:13:01 AM

My bad on the DX10 only bit, didn't find the FAQ as most of the site didn't work for me. I correct myslef, its Vista only.

As for graphics cards, if buying a card and you want DX10 then I'd wait until the end of the year and buy a DX10.1 card as DX10.1 isn't compatible with DX10 equipment (at least in so far as its advantages aren't - I've no doubt (although it waits to be confirmed when true info about DX10.1 is out) that DX10 equipment will run a game encoded at DX10.1 but with DX10 efficiency and effects only). So if you want a card your going to keep a while, DX10.1 might be the way to go.

So far as DX10 effects on DX9 are concerned, its not going to happen because the rendering overheads are too high on DX9 cards. The main advantage of DX10 is not that the effects are any better (most could in theory be rendered on DX9), but that the efficiency is so much better so that up to 20x more objects can be onscreen in DX10 than for DX9. Rendering the DX10 effects on a DX9 card would most likely bring the card and frame rate to its knees.

For a comaprison of DX9 vs DX10 in forthcoming games, take a look at this Crysis direct comparison:

http://us.download.nvidia.com/downloads/nZone/videos/nz...
June 5, 2007 9:46:29 AM

The Alan Wake game is not Dx10 only... its just Vista exclusive. And yeah generally most software / games running on Dx10 will be able to run on Dx9 HW at least for the next 2 to 3 yrs... I still remember the transition from Dx8 to Dx9, i wan able to play NWN on a geforce MX440. And that was when the Dx9 was already out and kicking...
June 5, 2007 10:09:00 AM

Quote:
Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.


I can "play" the DX9 FEAR on my DX8 G4Ti4200 (if you count 20fps as playable).

Direct X is software, not hardware. DX10 cards are just optomised for that, so they (should) run better than the equivalent DX9 card under DX10.
June 5, 2007 1:38:05 PM

Quote:
Hello all,
I am going to upgrade my GPU.
I am thinking about the 1950XT.

My question is,
when the time will come, and DX10 games will arrive,
does this card will be able to run them, or I'll need to throw him and buy a new DX10 card.

thanks.

Yes but under emulation. If you have ever used emulation you know its many times slower.

what? did u just make that up?

I have yet to see a DX8 based card be able to process PS3.0 in any sort of emulation. Nor have I seen anything about DX9 cards being able to do DX10 stuff under emulation. Maybe I'm wrong but ur post smells of B.S.
No I didnt make it up as anything can be emulated. The reason you've not seen any PS3.0 emulations is because somethings run bad on emulation. Thats not to say you couldnt write an emulation program for PS3.0. Shame on you for not knowing it could be done.
http://www.reaper-x.com/2006/10/20/pixel-shader-hardwar...
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvemulate.html
Quote:
Even so, dear Microsoft hasn't totally forgotten us. Some sort of "compatibility" will be available through a software layer (probably some emulation) which will have its price in system resources, as it will run much slower. The good news is that DirectX 10 will relieve some of the burden on the CPU.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/DirectX-10-and-so-it-end...
The question is which is easiest emulation for your GPU upto DX10 or emulaiton of DX10 down to DX9. Can PS3.0 emulate PS4.0? Yes but with loss to the image.
June 5, 2007 2:15:31 PM

How are you going to emulate DX10 though?

DX10 is just DX9 with more efficient rendering and thats done through hardware changes not software tricks. As I understand it all DX10 software does is provide the instructions for the DX10 cards hardware.

The problem with DX10 effects on DX9 cards is as I stated aboved, DX9 cards can reproduce everything DX10 can, what they lack is the efficiency to be able to render those effects on screen. What you buy with DX10 hardware is efficiency not effects and thats why its not retro compatible.
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