Vista on Newegg

[ram1009]

I was just looking at Vista prices on Newegg and discovered they only sell the "OEM" versions. Part of the definition listed in the specs is that the OS can never be instaslled in another computer. WTF!!! Who would buy under that constraint?

 

[wolfen420]

This is because typically OEM versions are meant for pre-manufactured machines like Dells, HP's, and so on.

 

[dmroeder]

You'd be surprised ram1009. Hang out in this section for a while and you will see how many people post "can I install Vista OEM on another rig".

It does make sense for some people. Take my folks for example. I built a PC for them when XP first came out. They still have the same one basically unchanged. Would it have made sense for me to put a retail version of XP on it? They will need a new rig before they will need a new OS.

 

[Zoron]

You also have to realize that while retail versions can be installed on multiple computers, they can't be installed on multiple computers simultaneously. If you want to change computers, that's fine, but you can't use that license on the old computer AND the new one... the OS must be removed from the old computer.

Of course, if you upgrade your computer enough to necessitate reactivation of Windows, you can always tell MS you had hardware failure.

 

[ram1009]

Let me say first that I'm not trying to scam anybody. This only makes sense if you're in the business of selling software. Mark my words, the next step is timed licensing. Microsoft learned a lesson with XP. They built an OS that people were happy with and didn't feel the need to update every couple of years. That would eventually spell the end of MS. This is a way to guarantee cash flow. The next step is yearly, then monthly renewal. MS has finally succomed to megalomania.

 

[Zoron]

I'll believe the sky is falling when I see it.

 

[ram1009]

I'll believe the sky is falling when I see it.

Stay tuned and remember where you heard it first. I don't see how software companies have any option other than going out of business. They need cash flow every month to keep the doors open. I use a CAD program daily called Solidworks. If you open a SW document with the current version of SW you can never open it again with an older version of SW. Plus, you can't open a document created with a new version with anything but the same version. The bottom line to this practice is that if anybody you share SW documents with during the course of doing business upgrades to a newer version they you must eventually upgrade also to maintain compatibility. Since the whole point of having/using SW is the ability to share files there's no choice. Clearly, software licensing is evolving toward frequent renewals to maintain cash flow. If you think not you're profoundly naive.

 

[Zoron]

People have been saying it for years now... heck even before XP came out I heard rumblings of MS switching to a subscription-based OS model. Well it hasn't happened yet, it's not happening with Windows 7 and I can virtually guarantee it won't happen with Windows 8. So you aren't the first person I've heard this from... so I definately didn't "hear it here first".

MS would be risking a lot by radically changing their licensing model. Solidworks can afford to piss people off... Microsoft cannot. Once you open an old file in Office, for example, you can still save that file to make it compatible with an older version of Office. (You can also create new files and save them in the old format). Now, of course, if you save in the new format, then the old versions can't do a damn thing with it.

If Microsoft does switch to any sort of subscription-based model... they might do it with something like Office... but it would be a very difficult pill to swallow on the OS side. They have the overwhelming majority of market share so they can make their money on corporate licensing alone. Whether you believe it or not, MS has to keep it's customers happy... because happy customers are repeat customers.

Like I said, I'll believe the sky is falling when I see it.

 

[ram1009]

People have been saying it for years now... heck even before XP came out I heard rumblings of MS switching to a subscription-based OS model. Well it hasn't happened yet, it's not happening with Windows 7 and I can virtually guarantee it won't happen with Windows 8. So you aren't the first person I've heard this from... so I definately didn't "hear it here first".

MS would be risking a lot by radically changing their licensing model. Solidworks can afford to piss people off... Microsoft cannot. Once you open an old file in Office, for example, you can still save that file to make it compatible with an older version of Office. (You can also create new files and save them in the old format). Now, of course, if you save in the new format, then the old versions can't do a damn thing with it.

If Microsoft does switch to any sort of subscription-based model... they might do it with something like Office... but it would be a very difficult pill to swallow on the OS side. They have the overwhelming majority of market share so they can make their money on corporate licensing alone. Whether you believe it or not, MS has to keep it's customers happy... because happy customers are repeat customers.

Like I said, I'll believe the sky is falling when I see it.

I wish you were right but like I said I'm afraid you're only naive. Microsoft is or will soon be at a point where (they believe) they can dictate their own terms. Whether they can or not depends on whether they ever get any serious competition for the consumer OS market. What is it you think MS customers will do if MS pisses them off? Buy an Apple? Not likely, not in sufficient numbers to hurt MS. Linux is free and few want it because it doesn't run the apps they currently use. People will take the path of least resistance and that's buying MS OSs as long as possible. the shift to subscriptions will be as gradual as necessary but it is mandatory for MS long term survivalT

 

[dmroeder]

ram, you are pretty confidant for not having a shred of evidence.

 

[wolfen420]

Id think if sub based OS came from MS then they would lose even more customers to alternative OS's. Vista's prices alone started driving some folks to try out new OS's. This would also in my opinion leave the door wide open for another company to come along and present an working alternative. I bet google is hoping MS does something that stupid.

 

[Zoron]

You don't need a subscription-based OS when you can force customers to upgrade their OS every time a new one is released. You can't possibly tell me that MS isn't still making a ton of money right now. Every three years, there is a new OS that all OEMs will buy and put on their computers. Most consumers will have the new OS because they buy their computers from OEMs. Very few people actually build their own rigs and make a conscious decision about the software that's on it.

MS doesn't need to change their model. They're making plenty of money the way it is now. Companies that sell specialized applications have a harder time selling their product. Almost everyone that buys a computer will have Windows... only a small minority will have CAD applications. As for antivirus... there is a lot more competition... so switching to a subscription-based service was the only way for them to make money. After all, there are a ton of them out there... and they have to compete with free ones as well.

 

[wolfen420]

I fully agree with Zoron on that statment. =D

 

[ram1009]

You don't need a subscription-based OS when you can force customers to upgrade their OS every time a new one is released. You can't possibly tell me that MS isn't still making a ton of money right now. Every three years, there is a new OS that all OEMs will buy and put on their computers. Most consumers will have the new OS because they buy their computers from OEMs. Very few people actually build their own rigs and make a conscious decision about the software that's on it.

MS doesn't need to change their model. They're making plenty of money the way it is now. Companies that sell specialized applications have a harder time selling their product. Almost everyone that buys a computer will have Windows... only a small minority will have CAD applications. As for antivirus... there is a lot more competition... so switching to a subscription-based service was the only way for them to make money. After all, there are a ton of them out there... and they have to compete with free ones as well.

You don't need a subscription based OS "IF" you can force customers to upgrade their OS every time a new one is released. Beware of the worlds biggest word: IF!!! That's exactly what did NOT happen with Vista and that's where MS learned their lesson as I said. Up until Vista new OSs have been sufficiently different and inovative that enough people upgraded to support MS. The incremental differences in software ( both OS & apps) these days are much more subtle and many people are happy with what they have and are unwilling to pay for what the developers consider improvements. It had to happen sooner or later. The company I work for never bought a copy of Vista and never will. They'll hold on to XP as long as possible because it does what we need it to do. That attitude multiplied by thousands or millions will spell the end of software developers. They need cash flow like any business. Yearly subscriptions will be OK for a while but greed will take over and force users to pay monthly eventually. The handwriting is on the wall.

 

[Zoron]

Vista did better than you think and is still gaining ground. Vista still sold to OEMs and the ones that insisted that XP be an option probably ended up paying more to offer that option on their computers. Win-win for Microsoft. It's true that Vista didn't do as well at retail as XP did... but trust me, MS still found a way to make money.

You keep pre-supposing that MS can't sell their operating systems. I'm telling you that they will. Every OEM will offer MS's latest operating systems on their computers. That is GUARANTEED money. Not every OEM will offer say Norton or McAffee or whatever other crapware on their computer... but one piece of software that will be on there is Windows. When you sell millions of licenses at a time every three years, then you don't need subscription-based revenue. It would never fly in the OS market. I've literally hearing this for years now... and it still hasn't happened.

Bottom line... as long as OEMs can still sell their computers, MS can still sell new copies of Windows. When people stop buying computers, then perhaps we will see a new licensing model. However, right now, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. Computer sales aren't as brisk as they used to be... but they aren't completely stopping either.

 

[ram1009]

Vista did better than you think and is still gaining ground. Vista still sold to OEMs and the ones that insisted that XP be an option probably ended up paying more to offer that option on their computers. Win-win for Microsoft. It's true that Vista didn't do as well at retail as XP did... but trust me, MS still found a way to make money.

You keep pre-supposing that MS can't sell their operating systems. I'm telling you that they will. Every OEM will offer MS's latest operating systems on their computers. That is GUARANTEED money. Not every OEM will offer say Norton or McAffee or whatever other crapware on their computer... but one piece of software that will be on there is Windows. When you sell millions of licenses at a time every three years, then you don't need subscription-based revenue. It would never fly in the OS market. I've literally hearing this for years now... and it still hasn't happened.

Bottom line... as long as OEMs can still sell their computers, MS can still sell new copies of Windows. When people stop buying computers, then perhaps we will see a new licensing model. However, right now, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. Computer sales aren't as brisk as they used to be... but they aren't completely stopping either.

Well, we've both said our piece and I don't think either of us has swayed the other so this is my last post on the subject. I do hope you are right but I have absolute faith in the greed the business community. Even if MS sells everything they can print someone sooner or later will show a subscription model that earns more money and the board of directors will force the change. Face it, they have us over a barrel for now and they will take advantage sooner or later. Anyway, it's been an interesting exchange and we never even called each other names. Take care.