Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Mineral Oil Submerged PC and Overclocking

Tags:
  • Heatsinks
  • Overclocking
Last response: in Overclocking
Share
June 6, 2007 12:55:56 PM

Hey guys,
I am about to build a new computer with the following components in order to overclock as far as I can.

e6420
asus p5b deluxe wifi
geil pc6400 4 4 4 14
sparkle 8800gts 640
big typhoon vx
etc.

I am interested in building a case as seen in http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

I understand that this system after 12hrs experiences what I would consider bad heat problems even though they found it still ran stable.
From what I can tell there are three things they did wrong.

1. Put the powersupply in the oil and below the cpu.
2. Used too small an aquarium (larger allowing more then 12 hrs to reach high temps)
3. Didnt have anything circulating the oil.

I was thinking of going for a bigger tank and leaving the power supply out. I also was going to get a fuel pump and have it circulate the oil across the cpu specifically and throughout the whole aquarium.

I was just wondering if there is any chance that this setup would allow for the same level of overclock that I would get if I just used the big typhoon vx/tuniq 120 or water.

I understand the other negatives and they arent a problem so no need to bring them up.
i.e, case cant be moved - never move mine.
cant change/upgrade components - very rare for me
possible damage to capacitors - I believe my build is all solid state. I may be wrong though so feel free to call me on that :) 


Thanks

More about : mineral oil submerged overclocking

June 6, 2007 1:42:50 PM

so you have nothing but money and free time?

must be nice
Related resources
June 6, 2007 6:17:19 PM

The problem is heat build-up in the oil, you would have to start pumping the oil out to a few rads to keep it cool... A water cooling kit / rad / pump should cope with very low viscosity oil just fine..

And oh yes… your mad!
June 6, 2007 6:55:45 PM

wont the oil molocules break up eventually by electrolysis's or require new ol changes?

I agree, youre nuts 8O
June 6, 2007 7:02:19 PM

I believe because the oil is a dieletric, very good insulator, it will not be effected by the currents/voltages in the system and will not break down. Especially with white oil (mineral oil) as it is so refined.
June 6, 2007 7:02:42 PM

I agree with jamesgoddard, you are MAD!!!!!
Anyway, I do believe all motherboard have capicitors. they are the little black or blue cylinders mostly located around the CPU socket.

Even with the pump circulating the oi, you will still have heat buildup within the tank if you do not pump the oil through some type of external radiator.

I would locate the power supply out of the oil, unless it has good dielectric properties. ie don't buy cheap mineral oil. slurge for the highly refined oils.

Good luck, keep us informed of the progress.
June 6, 2007 7:03:05 PM

I believe because the oil is a dieletric, very good insulator, it will not be effected by the currents/voltages in the system and will not break down. Especially with white oil (mineral oil) as it is so refined.
June 6, 2007 8:55:42 PM

can we ask why( just interested ) you are doing this? especially with a good rig?
June 7, 2007 4:39:16 AM

:D  Well,
I started considering water cooling instead of just a tuniq tower/big typhoon vx and prices started going up by 400. So im like, if I can build that oil pc and get the same overclock... fun.
June 7, 2007 9:26:26 AM

Let's see what happens.

Just a thought - a lot of industrial transformers are oil-cooled, so the theory is very well-established.
June 7, 2007 10:22:04 AM

".... cant change/upgrade components - very rare for me ...."

Are you looking for a job? Because We definitely need people like you who can predict failure rates of components, yet avoid them almost totally... :lol: 

No seriously man. You WILL, sooner or later, change something in your system. And if a component fails try to RMA it... I wouldn't do that if I were you. (Unless you have tons and tons of money and spare time on your hands...)
June 7, 2007 10:49:36 AM

The change out of hardware in the linked oil system isn't as hard as others.
The motherboard and everything is attached to a removable motherboard tray and slotted in vertically. So you could just slide it up, support it somehow and let it drain back into the tank before removing anything.

What I really want to know is overclocking within a system like this. No one ever tries overclocking. They just run the system and say wow it doesnt short.... lol
June 7, 2007 11:46:56 AM

Hmm, its been done before, but you seem to have an idea of how to make a better scenario of it, so sure, go for it.

I'm intregued though... will you just have passive heatsinks and allow convection to move the heat away, or will your pump system bring cool oil to the heasinks, and vent it away to a radiator? You could certainly keep temps cool with a good circulation system. My own prefference would be to have the pumnp 'suck' the oil over a heasink, and take it away to be cooled, before being dropped back into the main tank again. This would certainly require custm heatsinks to be made, but it may be worth it.

Certainly if the system is a money-no-object project, then I say go for it. After all, how do you know wher the limits are if you dont break something occasionally? :D 
June 7, 2007 11:50:34 AM

Does anyone know if a pump will be able to pump mineral oil through a heatercore? Im not sure how viscous mineral oil actually is, I hear its alot better than other oils but still..
June 7, 2007 5:53:30 PM

Quote:
Does anyone know if a pump will be able to pump mineral oil through a heatercore? Im not sure how viscous mineral oil actually is, I hear its alot better than other oils but still..


According to the MSDS sheets that come with bulk purchases of mineral oil, it has a viscosity of about 13. (68 deg F water has a viscosity of 1; motor oil at 104 deg F has a viscosity of 104; just for a reference)
I have not seen mineral oil pumped with anything smaller than a 5 horsepower pump (industrial facility). But I do not see any reason why you could not use a good quality aquarium pump or a computer water cooling pump.
June 7, 2007 5:58:00 PM

What sort of relationship is represented by 1 and 13? Obviously it is not 13 times more viscous :) . Any translators out there? 8O
June 7, 2007 6:15:35 PM

Quote:
What sort of relationship is represented by 1 and 13? Obviously it is not 13 times more viscous :) . Any translators out there? 8O


In short viscosity is the shear resistance of a fluid. In simple terms the viscosity of a fluid is compared to water, which has a viscosity rating of 1 at 68 deg F. So the higher the viscosity rating the thicker the fluid.
June 7, 2007 6:16:37 PM

Mineral oil is a newtonian fluid which means the viscosity of it is only effected by heat and not shear rate or time. So as the computer builds up heat the viscocity would decrease making the flow rate much faster. I would think it might drop from 13 to maybe around 8.

@ oldgoat beat me to it :tongue:
June 7, 2007 6:32:53 PM

Quote:
@ oldgoat beat me to it :tongue:


Don't worry after reading your reply I had to go back and make sure I was looking at the right info. :wink:
June 7, 2007 8:01:39 PM

Quote:

No seriously man. You WILL, sooner or later, change something in your system. And if a component fails try to RMA it... I wouldn't do that if I were you. (Unless you have tons and tons of money and spare time on your hands...)


90% or better rubbing alcohol will clean most components right up. just need a small pan and a few minutes of in between time. 8)
June 7, 2007 8:03:39 PM

mmm alcohol
June 8, 2007 6:45:16 AM

i think its still nuts, better ways of cooling with less implications
June 8, 2007 7:45:07 AM

So you think water cooling will always be better?
June 8, 2007 9:24:49 AM

Don't ask about "better", ask about worth it or reasonable. PUtting a whole PC in oil is not reasonable, there is trivial gain if any if implemented well, and mostly just a waste and burden to it.

If all you want to do is o'c, build the PC normally with air cooling and see how it goes. If you are not getting a good result relative to everyone else, it might be the parts not the cooling, but still then your best bet is water cooling with separate 'sinks and tubing for the particular parts you're having trouble keeping cool (and in that case, it would tend to involve voltmods, most parts will not just be too hot they'll be voltage constrained before that point, but with voltage comes heat too so it depends on the parts).
June 8, 2007 2:57:37 PM

The only draw back that I can see is the weight, which would be a draw back for those who move there computers often, other then that, it's a cool and a bit expensive mod.
April 30, 2008 9:16:01 PM

hi new here going to build an aqaurium pc :) 

So like all newbies i've a couple of questions

1. i've heard there can be problems with oil not circulating in small gaps behind the processor in 775 sockets causing hot spots, has anyone found a solution to this yet ? I understand sealing it completly just results in air pockets which must result in the same effect, has anyone tried packing the socket out with a ceramic based thermal grease to spread the heat out ?

2. I understand the mineral oil can damage the seals on capaciters, but as the oil is a dialectric it shouldent affect there performance or does it result in a circuit failure.

thanks in advance for any help in answering these questions :) 


going to be submerging an asus p5k-e wifi motherboard with an intel e8400 and asus 8800gt.
also planning on throwing a 19" lcd screen in there too. with all ports extended to a top plate

I've got a good idea how its all going to be set up but still toying with the option on mounting the mobo verticaly or horizontaly.

i think its going to look better with all hs and fans in place but am wide open for advice on this ie is the oil a better thermal conductor than copper and aluminium or would leaving heatsinks on give me more surface area for heat to disapate into the oil.

please excuse spelling, grammer etc. sure you all get the gist of what i'm asking lol :) 

May 1, 2008 4:51:49 AM

Hello there Jeff and welcome to the forums. :) 

Let me tell you this: flooding your pc with oil isn't exactly very popular, much less, reasonable. Is there any reason to do this? Water cooling is more than enough, air cooling is the most practical.

Anyways, if you really must do so, I can only give you one advice: It'll look better with a heatsink on. Perform better too.
May 1, 2008 4:51:27 PM

Evilonigiri said:

Anyways, if you really must do so, I can only give you one advice: It'll look better with a heatsink on. Perform better too.


I assume you could skip any kind of thermal grease though... or could you? Would it just dissolve into the rest of the oil?

If you can chill the oil, that'd be good. I saw an article YEARS ago where a guy built a mineral oil PC and actually ran the oil over the refrigerator coils of a disassembled air conditioner. I looked around, but couldn't find the article again, sorry.
May 1, 2008 7:09:01 PM

I like it! Hehehehe! So what would happen if you just filled up the tank with non conductive coolant and just turned the whole thing into a giant liquid cooler with pumps and rads and all that junk to cycle the liquid?

I mean, oil is cool and all that. But hell, if that works, why not PC Ice or some other non conductive coolant? As long as it isnt contaminated it should work, right? And with a water like constancy it'd be easy to pump.

Full sized water cooling, lol!

Hey jeff, let me know what you decide to do and all that! I rather like this idea. I may try it at some point as well, but with "normal" coolant.

--Lupi!
May 1, 2008 9:46:30 PM

Lupiron said:
I like it! Hehehehe! So what would happen if you just filled up the tank with non conductive coolant and just turned the whole thing into a giant liquid cooler with pumps and rads and all that junk to cycle the liquid?

I mean, oil is cool and all that. But hell, if that works, why not PC Ice or some other non conductive coolant? As long as it isnt contaminated it should work, right? And with a water like constancy it'd be easy to pump.

Full sized water cooling, lol!

Hey jeff, let me know what you decide to do and all that! I rather like this idea. I may try it at some point as well, but with "normal" coolant.

--Lupi!


I don't really think you would get any more performance with pumps and rads. Also, PC Ice would likely fry the computer after some time as it doesn't like to retain its "non-conductivity". I don't personally think this is a particularly good idea, however I can't force you not to do it. I think Phase Change would likely be a better alternative for extreme overclocks. It's something you can use for a long period of time as well. Just a thought.
May 1, 2008 11:34:28 PM

:) 

I was just thinking about it, not gonna try it. Though it is interesting! I kinda like my computer, and 88c on a non overclocked e6600 makes me think it'd not be to well off with an overclocked quad!

Hehe, but would have been fun to try!

--Lupi!
May 4, 2008 3:24:38 PM

i'm definatly going to do it got two pc's worth of spare parts sitting doing nothing so nothing to lose but some time and effort.

and just had a large glass fishtank donated to me :)  only thing i'm having is finding a source for mineral oil lol priced up baby oil works out £3 a litre :( 
so might invest in a smaller tank the one i've been given is 120 ltr lol.

i'll let you know how it gets on :) 
May 8, 2008 12:49:22 PM

This whole fun post made me wonder.

Could we just dilute some mineral oil in an existing water loop to increase the thermal dilution power ?

A scinetist out there who tried it ?

May 8, 2008 5:09:08 PM

Tag. I too have a bunch of old PC parts. Just need to dig up a suitable tank. Craigslist here I come.
May 8, 2008 5:27:44 PM

I don't think it is a good idea to mix mineral oil into an existing loop. The reason is that water and oil don't mix well. And if they were to mix you would end up with a solution that would look like mayonaise. I know this for a fact from having a head gasket on a car fail. When the two mix (i.e. in the pump) they will emulsify and become much thicker than they are seperately. And that will cause the pump to fail. If you want to something along those lines I recommend using oil in the case and then use a heat-exchanger that is connected to a water loop to cool the oil. As that will work much more efficiently.

-ouch1

BTW I saw on an Austrailian overclocking website where they dropped dry-ice pellets into an oil cooled system and they were able to get the system well below ambient air temps. They also had the oil being pumped through a big radiator too. I though it was kind of cool.
May 8, 2008 10:46:38 PM

I'm a noob, but when I was in college some buddies of mine did this with some old 286s and a board they had modified. They got some rediculous results, but they said that the oil was very bad about getting into capacitors when it was hot and pretty much making junk not work.

I don't know if newer gear would be more resistant than that, but I thought I'd throw that out there.
!