Slow demise of ATI for GPU FLAGSHIP dominance!!!

[kansur0]

***I am not a techie...just an observer. I respect all of your opinions and your bashing. I wouldn't bother bashing. I don't care about being the smartest here. I am simply pointing out what I have observed***

From what I have seen of the new design and the reviews and posts up to this point there is one statement that I can make with absolute certainty.

"I AM COMPLETELY DISSAPPOINTED WITH ATI'S 2900 DESIGN"

When ATI releases a flagship card they should absolutely surpass the competition. Argueing about optimized drivers and trying to predict when the card will catch up to the 8800GTX when it is "fine tuned" is pointless. The card should have been able to rip into the GTX by 10-20% with any drivers put to the card. Anything less is a failure.

I am an AMD and ATI user since 1999. I wanted to see ATI come back out on top because competition is healthy for the industry. Now that they have not been able to completely destroy the nVidia flagship card the 8800GTX card will drop down in price and smother the 2900 when nVidia releases it's next flagship offering.

The question is...can ATI come back and be the undisputed champion once again? Do they even want the crown back...or are they abandoning this war to be dominant in other markets like the hybrid CPU/GPU chip? I for one think this market will be huge...but not being able to joust with nVidia in the world market for complete GPU flagship domincance will eventually bring ATI down. They must return again to completely crush nVidia or they will slowly fade away...no matter what other markets they decide to explore.

ATI...IF YOU CANNOT RELEASE A FLAGSHIP CARD THAT WILL COMPLETELY DOMINATE THE COMPETITION...DO NOT HYPE IT...DO NOT GIVE YOUR SUPPORTERS FALSE HOPES. PUSH THE RED BUTTON WHEN YOU ARE READY...THEN PROCEED TO CRUSH.

If you cannot...without a doubt crush the competition...I don't want to see or hear about Tunisia or any other place on earth you choose to turn on the spotlight. Save the spotlight for a winner. If you don't have a winner...just release it. Save your money for the real show.

 

[Slobogob]

I really like AMDs new GPU design. I like the features it has. What i don´t like and what you probably ment to say, is that the performance just isn´t what it should be.

 

[haywood]

2900XT is not the flagship, that would be the 2900XTX due in a month or so.

2900XT is meant to compete with the 8800GTS which is seems to do.

Read before you rant!

 

[kaotao]

First off, don't knock the design, knock the performance. Second, the 2900XT was not aimed at the GTX, the 2900XTX was. The XTX unfortunately wasn't up to snuff, so they delayed it's release. Unfortunately again, the 2900XT still needs to come down in price a bit before it becomes a good buy.

 

[jaculum]

What a useless topic. None of what he said is new or useful. He doesn't even have a question to ask. None of what he's saying needed to be pointed out, as many have voiced the same concerns before.

*sigh*

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

And how does your reply help or is usefull to this thread? lol.

 

[kansur0]

What a useless topic. None of what he said is new or useful. He doesn't even have a question to ask. None of what he's saying needed to be pointed out, as many have voiced the same concerns before.

*sigh*

What is useless is your response with a *sigh* at the end of it. I don't need to ask any questions. What I am trying to do is light a fire under ATI's ass.

I don't remember you asking a question. And yes...it needs to be said. And yes...many people have probably said the same thing...but I don't have time to read millions of posts like you and sound smart while rolling your eyes at someone else.

If you are going to post...don't point out repetition. It's repetitive and weak.

 

[kansur0]

2900XT is not the flagship, that would be the 2900XTX due in a month or so.

2900XT is meant to compete with the 8800GTS which is seems to do.

Read before you rant!

Thanks for the correction. As stated before in my original post I don't claim to know everything. What I do know is that whatever card ATI releases...whichever XTX triple XXX whatever card it is...if it doesn't wipe the floor with the 8800GTX...it is a failure.

I read pretty much every review that Tom's Hardware does...I don't trust anyone else. If I have missed the review on the ATI 2900 XTX please post the link to it so I can read it...otherwise...

 

[kaotao]

The XTX wasn't quite up to snuff, so they've delayed it's release.

 

[kaotao]

double post?

 

[jaculum]

Don't worry about it. I'm in a bad mood.

If you'd like to take a stab at ATI though, I'd suggest you send them some mail or try looking to see if others have already done the same so you can attempt to be well informed on the matter anyway. Saying you don't keep up on your info isn't a good excuse when you want to make a statement about something that requires that you are.

I'm mostly just miffed that I keep seeing topics on various message boards like this one saying the world is going to end because AMD and Nvidia aren't toe-to-toe right at this very moment.

 

[haywood]

The XTX wasn't quite up to snuff, so they've delayed it's release.

QFT

The 2900XTX, whether driver or hardware related, could not outperform the XT so it was delayed. I imagine the XTX will not be the GTX killer ATI fanbois want it to be but then again.....................

 

[jordanwise]

are they actually releasing a 2900xtx? i thought they gave it up as a bad job and where just going to compete with the 8900 with their 2950xtx

 

[jaculum]

The weaknesses of the card have been exposed quite blatantly by some reviews I've seen... Supposedly it'll blow what we see right now out of the water with a few tweaks and a move to the 65nm process, due mostly to its current heat and power issues.

We shall see. As of right now, I'm still waiting for my current card to be no longer up to snuff. It's a 7800 GT, and it still looks good and plays well at 1920x1200 with medium-high settings... Although it may be because all the games I play just happen to be well optimised/old ones.

*shrug*

 

[sailer]

2900XT is not the flagship, that would be the 2900XTX due in a month or so.

2900XT is meant to compete with the 8800GTS which is seems to do.

Read before you rant!

Thanks for the correction. As stated before in my original post I don't claim to know everything. What I do know is that whatever card ATI releases...whichever XTX triple XXX whatever card it is...if it doesn't wipe the floor with the 8800GTX...it is a failure.

I read pretty much every review that Tom's Hardware does...I don't trust anyone else. If I have missed the review on the ATI 2900 XTX please post the link to it so I can read it...otherwise...

Before you complain too much about the 2900 XT, let me say something about its competition, the 8800 GTS. I bought and install one a couple days ago and I've had multiple problems. If I try to open the control panel, Ntune, or Nvidia monitor, my computer immediately locks up. I tired uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers without success. Then I found this on the release notes from Nvidia:

"Forceware Graphics Drivers Release 158 Notes, Version 158.22 for Windows XP" p .27 of 48 "AGP or PCI-E May Hang with AMD K-7 and K-8 Processors:, followed by a couple paragraphs describing the problem and telling how AMD processors cause a condition that "results in undefined behavior and data corruption".

Apparently some changes can be made in the registry that can help, but do not guarantee that the card, drivers, etc, will work properly. Had I known this, I would not have bought the card. I don't mean to say that the 2900 XT is a great card, but only that its competition has problems as well. I believe that both AMD and Nvidia have plenty of work to do before their new cards are acceptable.

 

[haywood]

Sorry about your problems, I love my 8800GTS. You could try Riva Tuner instead of NTune.

 

[crazypyro]

the R600 is a technological masterpiece ahead of its time. It needs 65nm, and its such a radical design that its going to have its flaws until they can get the silicon right. Even when the silicon is perfect, there is so much hardware working that the software/drivers need to be fine tuned to get everything working in harmony. With every driver revision they keep pumping performance out.

 

[kansur0]

the R600 is a technological masterpiece ahead of its time. It needs 65nm, and its such a radical design that its going to have its flaws until they can get the silicon right. Even when the silicon is perfect, there is so much hardware working that the software/drivers need to be fine tuned to get everything working in harmony. With every driver revision they keep pumping performance out.

Well...if they can refine the drivers and actually surpass the 8800GTX...then I will be greatful that they can indeed beat nVidia. As to an earlier post that the world is going to end because AMD isn't "toe to toe" with nVidia...they not only need to be at parity with but absolutely crush nVidia so they can start to win back some of the market share. Both AMD and ATI cannot afford to give up ground by continuing to put off product releases after they have these big hype shows gathering ton's of media with non-disclosure agreements like they are releasing some sort of industry dominating device.

If you are going to hype a product to such a large degree...at least know that you are going to kick some ass. There is nothing worse that a prize fighter trash talking and telling the world that they will KO...then watch him barely win a fight with a decision. It's embarassing.

 

[crazypyro]

the biggest limiting factor to the R600 is its speed, which due to the overly complex design for 80nm, it can't achieve the speeds required to be competitive with nVidia's brute force approach.

 

[mcain591]

2900XT is not the flagship, that would be the 2900XTX due in a month or so.

2900XT is meant to compete with the 8800GTS which is seems to do.

Read before you rant!

I don't think that they are even going to bother with the 2900XTX. Instead, I am pretty sure that they are going to release an 2900XT GDDR4 1GB edition. Then they are going to go straight to the X2950XTX (and XT) series.

 

[bfellow]

the R600 is a technological masterpiece ahead of its time. It needs 65nm, and its such a radical design that its going to have its flaws until they can get the silicon right. Even when the silicon is perfect, there is so much hardware working that the software/drivers need to be fine tuned to get everything working in harmony. With every driver revision they keep pumping performance out.

No its not. That's why they're going ahead and redesigning the core while converting to 65nm. The R600 also has only 16 TMUs and 16 ROPs which hurts it in applications having large usage of render output and texture mapping. The GTS uses 24 and 20 while the GTX uses 32 and 24

 

[jamesgoddard]

the R600 is a technological masterpiece ahead of its time. It needs 65nm, and its such a radical design that its going to have its flaws until they can get the silicon right. Even when the silicon is perfect, there is so much hardware working that the software/drivers need to be fine tuned to get everything working in harmony. With every driver revision they keep pumping performance out.

No its not. That's why they're going ahead and redesigning the core while converting to 65nm. The R600 also has only 16 TMUs and 16 ROPs which hurts it in applications having large usage of render output and texture mapping. The GTS uses 24 and 20 while the GTX uses 32 and 24

But the TMUs and ROPs in the HD2xxx cards run at the full speed of the core, rather then the 575MHz of the 8800GTX... So it's a case of 1/2 the logic, but running faster..

We will see what comes out best when AMD can get the 65nm R650 cores running... If they can get the cores reliable past 1GHz then it will sail past the 8800GTX (but then I guess the 8900's will come 3 months after and take the crown back)

 

[chunkymonster]

While I can understand your "disappointment" but without any real-from-the-ground-up DX10 software/games it is difficult to say how either the 88xx or 2xxx cards really perform.

As noted, the 2900XT was meant to compete with the 8800GTS and it does just that, performance and price wise.

Given the state of technology and the lack of DX10 software, I'm content to give ATI/AMD the benefit of the doubt and let them have the time they need to get things in order. What's another few months when we've waited since last year, since the release of the 8800, for an ATI equivalent?

Fact is, I'm more disappointed that ATI requires you to load .NET in order to install their drivers and multimedia center...what a friggin' P.I.T.A.!!!!!!

 

[rodney_ws]

What a useless topic. None of what he said is new or useful. He doesn't even have a question to ask. None of what he's saying needed to be pointed out, as many have voiced the same concerns before.

*sigh*

What is useless is your response with a *sigh* at the end of it. I don't need to ask any questions. What I am trying to do is light a fire under ATI's ass.

I don't remember you asking a question. And yes...it needs to be said. And yes...many people have probably said the same thing...but I don't have time to read millions of posts like you and sound smart while rolling your eyes at someone else.

If you are going to post...don't point out repetition. It's repetitive and weak.

NOOB FIGHT!!!

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

Don't encourage noob fighting. People may quit the forums forever because they take it personal (cough cough Jack cough). We wouldn't want to loose WingDing.....