Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Home Theater Surge Protector

Last response: in Home Theatre
Share
January 25, 2005 1:23:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
protectors/power centers that would do a good job?

Sharon
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 1:23:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sharon wrote:
> I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
> Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need
better
> surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
> Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
> protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
Oh boy, here we go.... Tom???
Related resources
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 3:43:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sharon wrote:

> I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
> Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
> surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
> Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
> protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>
> Sharon

Google is your friend:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.tech.hdtv/br...(more+newbie+questions)&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3D+Line+conditioning+(more+newbie+questions)%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#3166838b69bdfede>

This topic is currently being beaten to death (again) in this very
newsgroup.

Matthew
January 25, 2005 3:55:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Matthew L. Martin wrote:
> Sharon wrote:
>
>> I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
>> Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need
>> better surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through
>> a Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
>> protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>>
>> Sharon
>
>
> Google is your friend:
>
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.tech.hdtv/br...(more+newbie+questions)&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3D+Line+conditioning+(more+newbie+questions)%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#3166838b69bdfede>
>
>
> This topic is currently being beaten to death (again) in this very
> newsgroup.
>
> Matthew

Thanks for the link. I did a search in this newsgroup but didn't find
what I was looking for.

Sharon
January 26, 2005 2:59:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Somewhere around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:23:12 -0700, while reading
alt.tv.tech.hdtv, I think I thought I saw this post from Sharon
<me7@privacy.net>:

>I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
>Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
>surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
>Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
>protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>
If you don't mind spending between $100 and $200, Panamax makes a nice one,
the 4300. This isn't the cheapest, but it's reasonable and has good
information:
www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?...


--
Marty - mjf at leftcoast-usa.com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
January 26, 2005 2:59:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Marty wrote:
> Somewhere around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:23:12 -0700, while reading
> alt.tv.tech.hdtv, I think I thought I saw this post from Sharon
> <me7@privacy.net>:
>
>
>>I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
>>Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
>>surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
>>Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
>>protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>>
>
> If you don't mind spending between $100 and $200, Panamax makes a nice one,
> the 4300. This isn't the cheapest, but it's reasonable and has good
> information:
> www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?...
>
>
Marty,

Thanks for the recommendation. I just started looking at the Panamax but
hadn't heard of them before. Everyone seems to talk about either Monster
or Tripp-Lite.

Sharon
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 9:12:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"tdti1" <tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us> wrote in message
news:tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us...
>
> These seem good:
> http://tinyurl.com/57qdz

And a lot more than one needs to spend. Check out the Panamax units. Use
their specs as a benchmark and if you can find something equivalent that is
cheaper, buy it. Make sure all lines into the system go through the surge
suppressor and that your a.c. service, cable, satellite, antenna, and phone
grounding is done properly, clean and tight.

Filtration and line conditioning is mostly not needed unless there are
specific problems in your home. If so it is best to deal with them at the
source anyway.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 9:39:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"When he recommends Panamax, Tripplite, APC, Monster, or
Belkin, then ask him how it works. Will it stop, block, or
absorb what miles of sky could not? If he makes that claim,
then minimal technical knowledge is missing and probably
learned from a salesman. "

Funny then that Tom has no problem with a whole house surger protector
being capable of completely blocking this tremendous power that travels
through miles of sky. Does a whole house one have some magical
components or super weapon? No, in fact, it's based on similar
technology as the stand alone units, though it is a better solution.
The point is, nothing is absolute and using foolish scare tactics
doesn't add anything.

"Appliances contain internally any protection that works at
the appliance. Required by industry standards for decades.
Protection that assumes you have earthed the incoming
transient before it can enter the building. There are no
effective plug-in protectors - power strip or UPS"

Yes, and as Leonard has pointed out to you, he's reparied plenty of
internal protection in consumer electronics that was destroyed by
surges. The protection did save the rest of the electronics, but still
the unit had to be brought in to replace the blown protection circuit.
Had that same protection been in a decent stand alone surge protector,
it would have blown instead, likely leaving the consumer electronic
device intact. Now, what would you rather do, replace a $35 surge
protector, or take your new $1000 receiver in for repair?

Yes, whole house protection is preferable, but you portray it as the
only solution, and perfect. As I've pointed out, many folks live in
apts where they have no control over whole building protection. For
them, the stand alone units, that you claim are worthless are a viable
alternative. Not as good, but still a lot better than nothing. And,
IMO, the best solution is to have both a whole house protector and a
stand alone surge protector for valuble electronics.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 11:33:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I checked the Panamax Unit web site, and I notice that the pairs of coax
pass throughs are spec'd slightly differently, and labeled differently,
one marked for Sat and one marked for cable/ant. Since I use PVRs which
require two coax inputs from my satellite dish, I need to know if the
Panamax can be used to pass the signal from two satellite LNBs. Will the
bias voltages for the LNBs be passed by either of these connections? Or
would I need two Panamax units to feed a two-tuner Sat receiver?

Leonard Caillouet wrote:

> "tdti1" <tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us> wrote in message
> news:tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us...
>
>>These seem good:
>>http://tinyurl.com/57qdz
>
>
> And a lot more than one needs to spend. Check out the Panamax units. Use
> their specs as a benchmark and if you can find something equivalent that is
> cheaper, buy it. Make sure all lines into the system go through the surge
> suppressor and that your a.c. service, cable, satellite, antenna, and phone
> grounding is done properly, clean and tight.
>
> Filtration and line conditioning is mostly not needed unless there are
> specific problems in your home. If so it is best to deal with them at the
> source anyway.
>
> Leonard
>
>
January 26, 2005 11:58:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Sharon" <me7@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:35ndivF4n1dqfU1@individual.net...
>I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix Rocket
>speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better surge
>protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a Motorola 3208
>DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge protectors/power
>centers that would do a good job?
>
> Sharon

I have my DVRs on UPSs.
("Uninterruptible Power Supply", has a built-in battery for electrical
outages, plus surge protectors)

CompUSA, Staples, etc, has them.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 12:55:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

trader4@optonline.net wrote:

>
> Yes, whole house protection is preferable, but you portray it as the
> only solution, and perfect.

Ever heard of the perfect being the enemy of the good? That is clearly
the attitude of w_tom, even though his preferred method is far from perfect.

Matthew
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 4:56:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Sharon <me7@privacy.net> wrote:
y>
> I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
> Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
> surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
> Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
> protectors/power centers that would do a good job?

Check out the Brickwall surge protectors at www.brickwall.com.

Scott
January 26, 2005 6:01:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

they have one that passes 2 sat cables
"sailor409" <marir@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:41F7C674.3040401@olypen.com...
>I checked the Panamax Unit web site, and I notice that the pairs of coax
>pass throughs are spec'd slightly differently, and labeled differently, one
>marked for Sat and one marked for cable/ant. Since I use PVRs which require
>two coax inputs from my satellite dish, I need to know if the Panamax can
>be used to pass the signal from two satellite LNBs. Will the bias voltages
>for the LNBs be passed by either of these connections? Or would I need two
>Panamax units to feed a two-tuner Sat receiver?
>
> Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
>> "tdti1" <tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us> wrote in message
>> news:tdti1.1jfe4n@satelliteguys.us...
>>
>>>These seem good:
>>>http://tinyurl.com/57qdz
>>
>>
>> And a lot more than one needs to spend. Check out the Panamax units.
>> Use
>> their specs as a benchmark and if you can find something equivalent that
>> is
>> cheaper, buy it. Make sure all lines into the system go through the
>> surge
>> suppressor and that your a.c. service, cable, satellite, antenna, and
>> phone
>> grounding is done properly, clean and tight.
>>
>> Filtration and line conditioning is mostly not needed unless there are
>> specific problems in your home. If so it is best to deal with them at
>> the
>> source anyway.
>>
>> Leonard
>>
January 26, 2005 6:07:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

never saw a wholehouse for 4 sat cables, If a panamax gets zapped they
replace it FREE
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1106750393.530657.123040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> "When he recommends Panamax, Tripplite, APC, Monster, or
> Belkin, then ask him how it works. Will it stop, block, or
> absorb what miles of sky could not? If he makes that claim,
> then minimal technical knowledge is missing and probably
> learned from a salesman. "
>
> Funny then that Tom has no problem with a whole house surger protector
> being capable of completely blocking this tremendous power that travels
> through miles of sky. Does a whole house one have some magical
> components or super weapon? No, in fact, it's based on similar
> technology as the stand alone units, though it is a better solution.
> The point is, nothing is absolute and using foolish scare tactics
> doesn't add anything.
>
> "Appliances contain internally any protection that works at
> the appliance. Required by industry standards for decades.
> Protection that assumes you have earthed the incoming
> transient before it can enter the building. There are no
> effective plug-in protectors - power strip or UPS"
>
> Yes, and as Leonard has pointed out to you, he's reparied plenty of
> internal protection in consumer electronics that was destroyed by
> surges. The protection did save the rest of the electronics, but still
> the unit had to be brought in to replace the blown protection circuit.
> Had that same protection been in a decent stand alone surge protector,
> it would have blown instead, likely leaving the consumer electronic
> device intact. Now, what would you rather do, replace a $35 surge
> protector, or take your new $1000 receiver in for repair?
>
> Yes, whole house protection is preferable, but you portray it as the
> only solution, and perfect. As I've pointed out, many folks live in
> apts where they have no control over whole building protection. For
> them, the stand alone units, that you claim are worthless are a viable
> alternative. Not as good, but still a lot better than nothing. And,
> IMO, the best solution is to have both a whole house protector and a
> stand alone surge protector for valuble electronics.
>
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 6:30:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"sailor409" <marir@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:41F7C674.3040401@olypen.com...
> I checked the Panamax Unit web site, and I notice that the pairs of coax
> pass throughs are spec'd slightly differently, and labeled differently,
> one marked for Sat and one marked for cable/ant. Since I use PVRs which
> require two coax inputs from my satellite dish, I need to know if the
> Panamax can be used to pass the signal from two satellite LNBs. Will the
> bias voltages for the LNBs be passed by either of these connections? Or
> would I need two Panamax units to feed a two-tuner Sat receiver?

They do pass d.c. We use them all the time for this.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 6:35:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:23:12 -0700, Sharon wrote:

> I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
> Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
> surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
> Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
> protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>
> Sharon

I have my HDTV on a UPS. Don't waste money on an expensive surge
protector, either buy a cheap ($15) surge protector or buy a UPS which
will give you both surge protection and much more importantly will protect
you from power failures. The fragile element in the LCD and DLP rear
projection sets (I don't know what your set is, you didn't say) is the
bulb. You don't want to stress it by power cycling it or turning off the
fan before the bulb has had a chance to cool, so a UPS is helpful if you
have frequent power outages or glitches. If your power is reliable then a
basic power strip is all you need.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 7:58:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"General Schvantzkoph" <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.01.26.20.35.16.888414@yahoo.com...
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:23:12 -0700, Sharon wrote:
>
> > I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
> > Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
> > surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
> > Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
> > protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
> >
> > Sharon
>
> I have my HDTV on a UPS. Don't waste money on an expensive surge
> protector, either buy a cheap ($15) surge protector or buy a UPS which
> will give you both surge protection and much more importantly will protect
> you from power failures. The fragile element in the LCD and DLP rear
> projection sets (I don't know what your set is, you didn't say) is the
> bulb. You don't want to stress it by power cycling it or turning off the
> fan before the bulb has had a chance to cool, so a UPS is helpful if you
> have frequent power outages or glitches. If your power is reliable then a
> basic power strip is all you need.

Actually, I checked this out with several manufacturers (Sony, Mitsubishi,
Optoma, & Panasonic) and they all said the same thing. The sets will not
attempt to strike the lamp until the temp has dropped to a safe level and
the cool down cycle is simply to allow you to restart the set more quickly.
The UPS is simply not a factor in saving wear on the lamp other than to
minimize the number of start cycles if you have frequent outages. There is
nothing wrong with using a UPS, but they often do not have as high a rating
as the better surge suppressors, often do not have 3-way protection, and
often do not have protection on lines other than the a.c.

Check the specs on that $15 surge suppressor. They likely have one small
MOV where the better units have 6 larger ones. Typically a good one will
cost $40-$100.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 9:30:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Good luck trying to get that warranty honored. Warranty is
so chock full of exemptions that one only gets the Panamax
replaced.

Cable requires no 'whole house' protector to make an earth
ground connection. Cable connects direct to earth at the
service entrance - no protector required to make that
connection. However many assume a protector does some kind of
magic blocking action. It does not. Which frequencies is it
blocking? None. If it was blocking the various frequencies
that are called transients, then it would attenuate the cable
signal.

No need for massive bucks on a plug-in cable protector.
More effective is a $2 ground block (sold in Home Depot or
Radio Shack) connected less than 10 feet to earth ground.
Many times more protection for many times less money. Why no
'whole house' for cable? Because the connection from coax
cable to earth ground does not require a protector.

Again, no effective protector stops, blocks, or absorbs
surges. Myths are encouraged to sell the grossly overpriced
and ineffective protectors - such as Panamax - as if they
block surges. Far more effective solution is a ground block
properly earthed at the service entrance, as is also required
by the National Electrical Code.

Jim wrote:
> never saw a wholehouse for 4 sat cables, If a panamax gets zapped
> they replace it FREE
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 9:36:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Show us just one spec that even claims that UPS provides
protection from the type of transients that damage
electronics. Best you will get is some generic claim about
protection. They must avoid defining which type of transient
it protects from. Why? They don't claim to protect from the
type of surge that typically damages electronics. More
details in a post to 42 .

What is protection inside that UPS? Same circuit found in a
power strip protector. To be effective, a shunt mode
protector must make a less than 10 foot connection to earth
ground. To hype mythical protection, the manufacturer avoids
all mention of earthing.

But again - put up numerical specifications if in doubt.
And good luck. A protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. A UPS manufacturer must avoid the entire subject
hoping you will make assumptions.

How can the UPS provide protection? If properly earthed
'whole house' protectors are installed. A protector is only
as effective as its earth ground.

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> I have my HDTV on a UPS. Don't waste money on an expensive surge
> protector, either buy a cheap ($15) surge protector or buy a UPS
> which will give you both surge protection and much more
> importantly will protect you from power failures. The fragile
> element in the LCD and DLP rear projection sets (I don't know what
> your set is, you didn't say) is the bulb. You don't want to stress
> it by power cycling it or turning off the fan before the bulb has
> had a chance to cool, so a UPS is helpful if you have frequent
> power outages or glitches. If your power is reliable then a
> basic power strip is all you need.
January 26, 2005 9:57:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:23:12 -0700, Sharon wrote:
>
>
>>I have a new Toshiba 62HM94, a new Yamaha 2500 Receiver and new Onix
>>Rocket speakers. With all of this new expensive equipment I need better
>>surge protection than I have now. I get my HDTV signal through a
>>Motorola 3208 DVR. Does anyone have any recommendations for surge
>>protectors/power centers that would do a good job?
>>
>>Sharon
>
>
> I have my HDTV on a UPS. Don't waste money on an expensive surge
> protector, either buy a cheap ($15) surge protector or buy a UPS which
> will give you both surge protection and much more importantly will protect
> you from power failures. The fragile element in the LCD and DLP rear
> projection sets (I don't know what your set is, you didn't say) is the
> bulb. You don't want to stress it by power cycling it or turning off the
> fan before the bulb has had a chance to cool, so a UPS is helpful if you
> have frequent power outages or glitches. If your power is reliable then a
> basic power strip is all you need.
>
General,

Thanks for the reply. After doing a lot more research I am leaning
toward a UPS with coax. Some of the discussions that I've tried to
follow get so technical they lose me, and there does seem to be so many
different opinions. It gets confusing. My Toshiba is a DLP by the way.

Sharon
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 5:04:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

If complex, then forget the technicals. Note that facts are
from responsible sources such as peer reviewed papers, the
National Institute of Standards and Technology (a government
agency), a utility, and an industry benchmark (Polyphaser).
Those technical numbers and IEEE references tell you one
thing. Which person knows what surge protectors do and what
really works.

How to identify an ineffective protector. 1) Has no
dedicated connection for earth ground. 2) Avoids all mention
of earthing. Notice one fact always discussed by industry
professionals. Earth ground. The recommended UPS avoids the
entire subject. How, pray tell, do they provide protection
when they don't even do as Franklin did in 1752? Read
carefully their specs. The UPS does not even claim such
protection.

Earth that coax where it enters the building. A ground
block costs $2 at Home Depot. However the cable company
should have already done that; as required by code. That is
secondary protection. Your primary protection required
inspection as pictured in:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Earthing provides protection that the UPS does not even
claim to provide. How do you know? Two above points identify
the UPS as ineffective twice over. Where does the UPS even
claim to provide such protection - with numbers. Others
instead recommend you spend 40 times more money for
ineffective protection. No explanation what a protector
does? No numbers? Then suspect the worst. A protector works
when it makes the essential less than 10 foot connection to
earth. Just no way around that fact. Your first question
should always be, "Where is the earth ground". No earth
ground means an ineffective protector.

Sharon wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. After doing a lot more research I am leaning
> toward a UPS with coax. Some of the discussions that I've tried to
> follow get so technical they lose me, and there does seem to be so many
> different opinions. It gets confusing. My Toshiba is a DLP by the way.
>
> Sharon
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 11:41:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

see response at the bottom w_tom...

"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41F89276.CBFB9BE1@hotmail.com...
> If complex, then forget the technicals. Note that facts are
> from responsible sources such as peer reviewed papers, the
> National Institute of Standards and Technology (a government
> agency), a utility, and an industry benchmark (Polyphaser).
> Those technical numbers and IEEE references tell you one
> thing. Which person knows what surge protectors do and what
> really works.
>
> How to identify an ineffective protector. 1) Has no
> dedicated connection for earth ground. 2) Avoids all mention
> of earthing. Notice one fact always discussed by industry
> professionals. Earth ground. The recommended UPS avoids the
> entire subject. How, pray tell, do they provide protection
> when they don't even do as Franklin did in 1752? Read
> carefully their specs. The UPS does not even claim such
> protection.
>
> Earth that coax where it enters the building. A ground
> block costs $2 at Home Depot. However the cable company
> should have already done that; as required by code. That is
> secondary protection. Your primary protection required
> inspection as pictured in:
> http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
>
> Earthing provides protection that the UPS does not even
> claim to provide. How do you know? Two above points identify
> the UPS as ineffective twice over. Where does the UPS even
> claim to provide such protection - with numbers. Others
> instead recommend you spend 40 times more money for
> ineffective protection. No explanation what a protector
> does? No numbers? Then suspect the worst. A protector works
> when it makes the essential less than 10 foot connection to
> earth. Just no way around that fact. Your first question
> should always be, "Where is the earth ground". No earth
> ground means an ineffective protector.

People in this group prefer bottom posting so I bottom post. You might
consider paying attention to the local conventions if you want to be
considered credible.

You argue that surge suppressors local to the AV system are ineffective
because they ignore grounding. Your myopic focus on this issue ignores the
reality that grounding in many, if not most systems, is incorrect or
inadequate, for a variety of reasons. The fact is that gounding is
recommended by all manufacturers of surge suppressors, but they are not
selling grounding so they don't feature it in their ads. Go figure. Every
owners manual for TVs sold in the US has a section on grounding as well. Do
they advertise it? Of course not. Surge suppressors use MOVs mostly. What
does an MOV do? It simply conducts in both directions when ptoential
(voltage) reaches a certain point. If a voltage exists above that point
between the two conductors that it connects, it conducts. Very simple.
Good surge suppressors use MOVs with lower clamping voltages and that can
conduct longer before self destructing.

If they were not effective, we would not see sets that have them on the a.c.
input with blown MOVs and no there damage than a blown fuse. We would not
see surge suppressors cooked with little or no damage to connected
equipment. The fact is that in the field we do. Your repeated postings
have misled and misinformed. You are completely correct regarding the
importance of grounding. You are completely wrong in your assumption that
system level surge suppression has no benefit.

It is simple. Smart consumers need to assure that their home is grounded
properly according to codes, should add whole house a.c. suppression, and
should buy the surge suppressor with the highest joule rating, fastest
response time, and that covers all lines into the system for the best price.

Assuming that you understand all of the variables is the most common mistake
in science and engineering. You have taken it to the level of art. Good
sense trumps lousy engineering every time.

Leonard
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 5:04:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Two wrongs make a right? Of course not. If grounding is
incorrect or inadequate, then grounding must be fixed to make
protection effective. No way around that. If earthing is not
adequate, then a protector that provides no earthing will be
effective? Of course not. The protector is ineffective twice
over. Solution to incorrect and inadequate earthing: fix the
earthing.

All protector manufacturers recommend grounding. That does
not mean they discuss earthing. Safety grounds are required
to meet UL safety requirements. UL does not require
earthing. Earthing is not available at plug-in protectors.
Ineffective protector manufacturers avoid all discussion about
earthing. Why mention something that would hurt sales?
Better is to confuse the consumer. Let him believe earthing
and grounding are same. Big difference. Safety grounds are
not earth grounds.

The lurker should reread previous posts. Notice careful use
of the word 'earthing' as oppose to 'grounding'. They are not
same even though they share some components. Earthing is one
type of grounding. Wall receptacles provide no earthing.
Wall receptacle only provides safety ground - also called
equipment ground by the National Electrical Code (NEC).
Again, notice the difference. Plug-in manufacturers hope you
don't learn the difference.

To be effective, the protector must make a less than 10 foot
connection to earth ground. And not just any earth ground.
Single point earth ground. EArthing is why 'whole house'
protectors are effective AND plug-in protectors are not.

The homeowner need not understand all the variables to make
a massive increase in household protection. First, his home
must meet post 1990 NEC earthing requirements. Homes built
before then that only use the cold water pipe as earthing
typically have ineffective earth ground for transistor
protection. Second, every incoming utility must have a
short, direct, and independent connection to that single
point ground either by hardwire or via a 'whole house'
protector.

A massive increase in protection for very little money. Can
we improve on it? Yes, we the public should demand that Ufer
grounding be standard in footing of all new homes.
Unfortunately, we still build new homes as if the transistor
did not exist. And so we leave it up to the home owner to
correct the installation after the fact - often after they
have suffered unnecessary damage.

A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Not just any ground. One particular type of ground -
earthing. No earth ground means no effective protection.

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> ...
> You argue that surge suppressors local to the AV system are
> ineffective because they ignore grounding. Your myopic focus on
> this issue ignores the reality that grounding in many, if not most
> systems, is incorrect or inadequate, for a variety of reasons. The
> fact is that gounding is recommended by all manufacturers of surge
> suppressors, but they are not selling grounding so they don't
> feature it in their ads. Go figure. Every owners manual for TVs
> sold in the US has a section on grounding as well. Do they
> advertise it? Of course not. Surge suppressors use MOVs mostly.
> What does an MOV do? It simply conducts in both directions when
> ptoential (voltage) reaches a certain point. If a voltage exists
> above that point between the two conductors that it connects, it
> conducts. Very simple. Good surge suppressors use MOVs with lower
> clamping voltages and that can conduct longer before self
> destructing.
>
> If they were not effective, we would not see sets that have them on
> the a.c. input with blown MOVs and no there damage than a blown
> fuse. We would not see surge suppressors cooked with little or no
> damage to connected equipment. The fact is that in the field we do.
> Your repeated postings have misled and misinformed. You are
> completely correct regarding the importance of grounding. You are
> completely wrong in your assumption that system level surge
> suppression has no benefit.
>
> It is simple. Smart consumers need to assure that their home is
> grounded properly according to codes, should add whole house a.c.
> suppression, and should buy the surge suppressor with the highest
> joule rating, fastest response time, and that covers all lines
> into the system for the best price.
>
> Assuming that you understand all of the variables is the most
> common mistake in science and engineering. You have taken it to
> the level of art. Good sense trumps lousy engineering every time.
>
> Leonard
!