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Intel to Make Graphics Cards

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a b U Graphics card
June 7, 2007 8:22:19 AM

Options are always good for the consumer, bringing more competition. Also, having Intel in the mix may drive the developers at a faster pace, and we may see advances in things like DX10 come more quickly.
June 7, 2007 9:02:08 AM

Intel can sell even bad stuff, because they are labelled as Intel.

When someone goes to the local market and want to buy a computer, he is very happy to get "real" intel computer with intel cpu and intel gpu...

The Pentium 4 did sell really well, even it was not so good when compared to AMD k8.

Now when Intel have the best cpu, they can really sell anything they produce because Intel is the bigges and best...

The good part is that Intel has huge production capacity and the best know how when producing chips. The bad thing is that intel is aiming middle and low end products (where the profit is). It can make gpu:s at 45nm prosess much cheeper than Nvid or ATI can, so they can force those out of cashflow... so fewer money for development, and higher prises for highend products...
The good thing is that we will get really cheap low and middle range cards (untill Intell has the monopoly...) and gpu's that have really low TDP. (if they use their technolygy advantage, and why wouldn't)

AMD can compete, if it does get it's new high metal gate technology to work, but I think that they run out of money first.
Related resources
June 7, 2007 9:30:13 AM

I'd really like Intel on the discreet GPU market as it would surely decrease prices. I remember I had an i740 and even if it was less powerful than other competitors it still allowed me to play Quake 3 in fairly high detail.

So why not?
June 7, 2007 4:19:36 PM

Cool. Intel in graphics? Competition is good. So when the hell is cyrix gonna make procs again? (bad joke)
June 7, 2007 6:36:22 PM

This goes against everything intel has been saying and presenting. I wonder if Digitimes is trying to put a spin on Larabee. For the record, Digitimes is very, very often wrong on their "reports."

I'm not against the whole thing... god knows nVidia needs stiff competition since AMD is no longer "up to the challenge."
June 7, 2007 6:54:06 PM

I think this is believable, and it makes sense.

Chipsets have always been a cash-cow for Intel, albeit more so in the corporate and mobile space.

With the bearlake chipset coming out with support for X-Fire instead of SLI, one can only assume that nVidia denied Intel rights to support SLI. That makes sense since nVidia is trying VERY hard to secure its market share on the desktop. Being the only SLI supporter out there, coupled with having the premier discrete card, they're doing very well moving their chipsets. It would hurt them to sign over SLI rights to Intel.

That being said, Intel learned the hard way how much control enthusiasts have over the market, and inevitably corporate purchases. Assuming nVidia has denied SLI support to Intel, the only logical thing to do would be to enter the discrete gfx market, else be removed from the high-end enthusiast space completely (Or support X-Fire... i.e. AMD).

Also note that Intel is being challenged VERY heavily in the Centrino-area, where laptop chipsets are cutting into Intel's thick margins. It would behoove Intel to invest in more expertise to stay ahead of the game, and the best way to do that would be in discrete graphics.

Also not that both ATi and nVidia are notoriously bad with drivers. This leaves Intel with a little wiggle-room for product/support differentiation. It's not good enough to have the fastest hardware; you need to be able to utilize that hardware with proper drivers. Intel's always been OK with driver support. It'd be nice to see how another company plays in the field.

It's feasible, and I'd really like to see Intel drop a real GPU or three.
June 7, 2007 7:30:11 PM

The only thing that would do it for me are the 1000's of opinions about what the products would be like. I'm still waiting for Intel to ditch Crossfire support. Not that Crossfire is bad but far it's from the competition with it's 8x8x or 16x4x. Anyway I'd like to see what Intel can come up with before making any kind of decision on whether or not this is good or bad. I personally would like Intel and Nvidia to make a love child company instead of just merging all together or going their separate ways.
June 7, 2007 8:07:20 PM

This is really interesting news and something that I hope comes true. However, I don't think we'll see real competition for a long time. Consider that ATI, a company that was neck and neck with Nvidia, gets bought out by AMD, so is now basically a non-viable player in the upper end market.

If Intel comes out with a discrete graphics card (big IF), I would expect it to be mid-range at best. Nvidia has spent lots of time and money in the industry (and has produced great products) and it would be incredibly difficult (and arrogant) for any other company to immediately pursue bumping them or even taking some significant market share.

What would nuke this argument by me is if Intel is pulling a Microsoft Surface dealy and had actually been working on this for a long time but just now "leaked". There have always been rumors, but I wonder how long Intel has been seriously considering this.
June 7, 2007 8:07:22 PM

I hope this does work. Without Intel squashing nVidia and AMD(ati) like a grape.
June 7, 2007 9:17:09 PM

I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.
June 7, 2007 9:47:30 PM

Nice find.

Let's hope they can bring power consumption down to a reasonable level.
June 7, 2007 9:58:56 PM

Quote:
I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.


This rumor was dispelled a while ago...

Quote:
TG Daily: There are very persistent rumors out there claiming that Nvidia is developing a CPU. Are you?

Csongor: No. We are not a CPU company. We are focused on visuals. Building a CPU is not our expertise and not our background. If we focus on visuals like we have for the last 12 years, if we focus on solving visual processing problems, we will be ok.
We have two CPU suppliers and we are now in a situation of being neutral with both of them. Our market share increase, by the way, is a result of being neutral. We are driving the bar on the low-end and we are driving the tech leadership on the high-end.


(link)
June 7, 2007 10:58:58 PM

Point taken
June 7, 2007 11:38:03 PM

"the launch of the new products is expected to be around early in the second quarter of 2008, according to the graphics card vendors"

Isn't that a short timeframe if they still have to start from scratch seeing as DAAMIT's cards where postponed 6 months easily. Unless they are just going to stick a bunch of their onboard graphics chips on a card and call it a day, I seriously doubt they haven't started on this allready and deem it doable.

2 cents
June 8, 2007 1:05:41 AM

Quote:
it wont happen
there is not enough profit in it to get intel to follow through with this
the only benefit for intel is a halo effect with the media

i would watch for larabee before discrete graphics from intel


Larrabee is shaping up to be a multi-purpose design that includes GPU and HPC products. There was an article on Ars a few days ago showing a rough layout of a Larrabee based graphics card.

I posted about it here:
Link

The Ars link is here:
Link

Ryan
June 8, 2007 1:36:00 AM

its a good thing, i geuss, since its always good to have new blood on the field. they wont be making any high-end parts for a while though.
June 8, 2007 1:54:33 AM

Quote:
"the launch of the new products is expected to be around early in the second quarter of 2008, according to the graphics card vendors"

Isn't that a short timeframe if they still have to start from scratch seeing as DAAMIT's cards where postponed 6 months easily.


No. It actually is only the difference between professionals and amateurs.
June 8, 2007 4:14:14 AM

I can only guess but it does seem like a short time frame. However since memory is out sourced and intel is good a making CPU's and they already have IGP's it shouldn't be all that hard to come out with something. I will admit thought that I would assume that their first atempt is probably gonna suck.

I give them some mad props for the attempt, but I think it's only to be 100% even with DAAMIT's potential. I'd still like to see a lust child of NV and Intel. They could call it Viagra, V and A from Nvidia and, the I from Intel and the last 3(gra) from the term "Graphics". Viagra I love it... just hope it'll keep them up.
June 8, 2007 4:28:15 AM

I hope they don't just rebrand their integrated graphics into discrete graphics.
June 8, 2007 4:49:33 AM

Quote:
I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.


This rumor was dispelled a while ago...

Quote:
TG Daily: There are very persistent rumors out there claiming that Nvidia is developing a CPU. Are you?

Csongor: No. We are not a CPU company. We are focused on visuals. Building a CPU is not our expertise and not our background. If we focus on visuals like we have for the last 12 years, if we focus on solving visual processing problems, we will be ok.
We have two CPU suppliers and we are now in a situation of being neutral with both of them. Our market share increase, by the way, is a result of being neutral. We are driving the bar on the low-end and we are driving the tech leadership on the high-end.


(link)


Keep in mind though that that interview took place before anyone really took Intel GPU rumors seriously. If Intel jumps into the GPU market it may corner nVidia into developing CPU's for the sake of diversity.

What I'm saying is don't be surprised if nVidia reverses itself on that strategy in 2 years time.
June 8, 2007 4:52:16 AM

Does anybody else wonder why Intel doesn't ditch crossfire?
June 8, 2007 4:58:20 AM

Quote:
because if they ditch crossfire all the people that use it will not be buying intel processors


So it's Nvidia's fault. I think Intel should adopt SLI, in other words Nvidia should open up it's drivers to enable Intel chipsets to use Crossfire as well as SLI. Although that would cut down on Nvidia's mobo sales.......????grrrr I wish there was an in between.....besides hacked drivers.
June 8, 2007 5:07:54 AM

I know the SLI on Intel chipsets has been a rumor for a LONG LONG while, I have the abit AW9D-MAX and it comes with an SLI bridge so it makes me wonder a whole bunch about SLI on it. I know there are hacked drivers out there, but I will wait for official support before I buy another 8800GTS.

As far as the P35 boards go, what do you think it's the best option for now. I know the DDR3 boards are slightly better (per THG review) but I also think DDR3 is a waste of money for now. 45nm boards will support up coming processors too. Do you guys think it's worth it going on the the P35 boards?
June 8, 2007 5:41:04 AM

Dual socket? 8 DIMM slots? ME WANT ONE!

Are those 64bit PCI slots at the left end or what?
June 8, 2007 6:21:10 AM

I'm gonna wash my hands of the entire subject till further notice.
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2007 6:56:29 AM

Quote:

The good part is that Intel has huge production capacity and the best know how when producing chips. The bad thing is that intel is aiming middle and low end products (where the profit is). It can make gpu:s at 45nm prosess much cheeper than Nvid or ATI can, so they can force those out of cashflow... so fewer money for development, and higher prises for highend products...


Yep, that's been my stated opinion/fear since it was first announced that they were planning to enter the market. They will go after the fleshy middle, taking away profits from AMD (ATi at the time) and nV, and thus reduce the the extra money for R&D of the boutique products at the high end, thus slowing the development, since also the high end stuff trickles down to the middle as refined solutions. Not good IMO for the gamer, but like you mention good for the average middle-range buyer who will benefit from more choice, and hopefully some intel production benefits too.

I recently read an article about intel's integrated graphics that reminded me of something, that while they may produce more graphics chips than anyone else, they'r virtually giving them away (due to the minor if any markup on a board with/without graphics), so this will likely be a profitable venture for intel, and that is definitely what will driver them towards that under $250 crowd.

Maybe they will make GPUs significantly beter than nV and AMD, but likely they will never push as hard as ATi and nV pushed each other in the high end.
June 8, 2007 7:00:00 AM

Although a company may make a boat load on high end graphic cards, the real money is in the midrange market because it's what most people want, use, and buy. Low end graphics are for the people that just don't give a damn about any of it but need something.
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2007 7:04:43 AM

Quote:
I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.


It was always a rumour since the whole Fusion-GPGPU stuff started, but it never made sense for them to ground up into CPUs, it always made more sense for them to buy an X86 licensee and devlop from there, the best candidate that made the most sense was always VIA. I still think it's their best chance if Fusion or Larabee take of and scale well to the point that they make stand alone GPUs less attractive (like VPU physics would do to the PPU). If they see that future as realistic I don't doubt that nV would considering buying VIA.

Right now though there seems to be little interest from either of them, and a pure-play CPU product doesn't make sense for nV, since unless it NEEDS to be X86/i-x64 compatible, it's better to simply improve their use of CUDA for things like C++ etc.
June 8, 2007 7:08:06 AM

I agree with you pretty much 100% but I kinda meant that Nvidia was going to make an independent CPU instead of an all in one GPU/CPU. Although since I can't find that article anymore and someone else has already informed me that it's pretty much fubar, I will have to just go with the flow and see what happens in the future. Who knows...?
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2007 7:13:00 AM

Quote:
here is a pic of an intel (non nvidia board) with sli slots
im not sure if i believe the story but the pic looks real

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40123


LOL!

Yeah the supposed board with Intel, nV and ATi on it. Look at the top left that's an ATi chip pretty prominent there.



Other than the words SLi on the description there's no mention of nV on the board itself. I think the person writing the card made the same mistake you did in your post. Those aren't "SLi slots" they're PEG / PCIe 16X slots. And that there are 2 of them confuses people into thinking that means SLi, and likely the SLi Gen 2, really means PCIe 2.0.

Ahh the power of pictures and data, versus the power of a little lateral thinking. :twisted:
June 8, 2007 7:19:11 AM

Possibly that Inquirer article but I don't rely on anything from the Inq. "Batboy", "8000lbs woman", and the UFO crap kinda makes me wonder.
June 8, 2007 7:52:05 AM

It's obvious that GPU business goes scyrocketing. Intel sees that the market capital of nVidia in NASDAQ nearly doubled in 2-3 years from $6 billion to $13 billion. If Intel will release a GPU capable of doing 400-700Gflops they have good chances to capture market share from competitors. In the meantime next year 1Q08 nVidia high end GPU G92 will be able to process 1Tflops. In comparison G80 ultra is able to process +500Gflops and ATI latest GPU overclocked R600 w/1GB RAM is able at around 500Gflops.

I was hoping to for intel to enter in Graphics cards business after AMD/ATI merge. And even more to buy nVidia but that wasn't possible most probably. It will be good for us the consumers to buy descent GPUs at lower prices.
June 10, 2007 12:17:11 PM

Quote:
I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.


This rumor was dispelled a while ago...

Quote:
TG Daily: There are very persistent rumors out there claiming that Nvidia is developing a CPU. Are you?

Csongor: No. We are not a CPU company. We are focused on visuals. Building a CPU is not our expertise and not our background. If we focus on visuals like we have for the last 12 years, if we focus on solving visual processing problems, we will be ok.
We have two CPU suppliers and we are now in a situation of being neutral with both of them. Our market share increase, by the way, is a result of being neutral. We are driving the bar on the low-end and we are driving the tech leadership on the high-end.


(link)


Keep in mind though that that interview took place before anyone really took Intel GPU rumors seriously. If Intel jumps into the GPU market it may corner nVidia into developing CPU's for the sake of diversity.

What I'm saying is don't be surprised if nVidia reverses itself on that strategy in 2 years time.

Intel has actually done discrete graphics before.

Has everyone forgotten the Intel7xx (originally the Intel740 Starfighter)? This was a mainstream-targeted AGP and PCI discrete (not onboard) graphics solution jointly developed by Intel, C&T (Chips and Technologies), and Lockheed Martin. The series ended with the Intel752, which in addition to an onboard version, also appeared in AGP and PCI-bus *flavors*, like its predecessors. Since then, Intel has acquired a large base of GPU technologies via cross-licensing deals, primarily with ATI (pre-AMD). So, in a way, Intel is actually *returning* to the discrete graphics business.
June 10, 2007 1:13:45 PM

I wouldn't mind Intel having a go at it.

With AMD and ATi now merged, I recon Intel feels the need to up the ante. As already said, the benefit if pulled off successfully is what counts. Three players all wanting your money? Bring it on, we need a bigger fighting play ground.

Let's not forget that Intel is pushing silicon shrinkage the hardest of all the players right now.
June 10, 2007 2:06:12 PM

Interesting.. The best thing I think Intel could do in regards to dual GPU is design a better bridge. One that can actually take advantage of both cards unlike SLI.

Will be looking forward to Intels 1st card. Any idea on when it'll be out?
June 10, 2007 7:07:17 PM

Quote:
I can't remember where I read it but Nvidia is considering getting into the CPU market.


This rumor was dispelled a while ago...

Quote:
TG Daily: There are very persistent rumors out there claiming that Nvidia is developing a CPU. Are you?

Csongor: No. We are not a CPU company. We are focused on visuals. Building a CPU is not our expertise and not our background. If we focus on visuals like we have for the last 12 years, if we focus on solving visual processing problems, we will be ok.
We have two CPU suppliers and we are now in a situation of being neutral with both of them. Our market share increase, by the way, is a result of being neutral. We are driving the bar on the low-end and we are driving the tech leadership on the high-end.


(link)


Keep in mind though that that interview took place before anyone really took Intel GPU rumors seriously. If Intel jumps into the GPU market it may corner nVidia into developing CPU's for the sake of diversity.

What I'm saying is don't be surprised if nVidia reverses itself on that strategy in 2 years time.

Yeah, I definately agree that an nVidia CPU would make a lot of sense if Intel comes out with a discrete line.

If both Intel and ATi/AMD both have discrete and chipset lines, then they become direct competitors to nVidia's primary business, hence they are no longer 'neutral parties.' nVidia could become the bastard child of the industry if AMD and Intel decide to stop supporting nVidia's development for their CPU lines. There would be little reason to go with an nVidia platform if an Intel or AMD platform can provide the same performance, and only support dual-setups for their respective discrete lines.

Interesting times.
March 19, 2008 8:57:00 AM

woops, discussion a bit older than I thought
March 19, 2008 9:56:52 AM

Intel have made graphics cards in the past. Anyone remember the i740?
I bought one, then found it would not work on a Via chipset motherboard, it needed an Intel one.
I hope they do not make the same mistake again.
JB
March 19, 2008 11:25:14 AM

Intel will likely have an advantage in the GPU market in that I suspect they will build features into their CPUs to allow them to work better with GPUs in certain ways. I'm mostly envisioning optimizition of what goes to the GPU and what goes to specialized CPU cores.

While I don't think Intel will prevent other companies from following suit, Intel will just have a head start on the design work.
March 19, 2008 1:11:59 PM

Let's face it, right now you can get 2 xbox 360's and an ipod for the price of one fast graphics card...that can't be right.
There is some competition lacking here and almost a monopoly (bilopoly?) in the graphics card market.
So a third serious competitior is indeed good news. I'm surpriced that not more companys get into such a lucrative market.
March 19, 2008 2:04:44 PM

I'd like to see Intel start with an IGP that can actually play games at medium settings/resolution (1280x1024). This would help boost bargain PCs into capable gaming machines. I think AMD and Nvidia are starting to do this and if Intel puts to much focus on discrete graphics they may end up losing their massive lead in the IGP market.
March 19, 2008 7:52:25 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

No seriously...

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!?

Their idea of a vista capable laptop chipset is at best a failed concept. What do you think they will do for the gaming market?

Again...

HAHAHAHA
a c 173 U Graphics card
March 19, 2008 8:37:05 PM

Actually San Pedro, thats not a bad idea. I remember reading about the 790G from AMD and laughing at the Intel IGP that they tested. If thats the best video that Intel can do, why are they even thinking about building cards? I wouldn't pay $20 for the best Intel can do right now.

Hopefully someone from Intel is listening to this. If you want to start making video cards, bring up the performance of your IGP. If we start to see something there, we might take you a bit more seriously. The problem is that "we" are the enlightened educated consumer, and make up a very small bunch. "They" are the uneducated sheep that Intel prays on, so they might be laughing at us/we.
March 19, 2008 8:49:00 PM

well im pretty excited about the idea of the intel GPU.as far as everybody knows they produce good CPUs and they make the worst IGPs ever.If they ever produce a larrabee which is supposed to come out in 2009 or 2010 well i hope its good cause there IGPs sucks(what im i Saying all IGPs sucks)Hopefully this Project will come true.
a b U Graphics card
March 19, 2008 9:11:15 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Quote:

The good part is that Intel has huge production capacity and the best know how when producing chips. The bad thing is that intel is aiming middle and low end products (where the profit is). It can make gpu:s at 45nm prosess much cheeper than Nvid or ATI can, so they can force those out of cashflow... so fewer money for development, and higher prises for highend products...


Yep, that's been my stated opinion/fear since it was first announced that they were planning to enter the market. They will go after the fleshy middle, taking away profits from AMD (ATi at the time) and nV, and thus reduce the the extra money for R&D of the boutique products at the high end, thus slowing the development, since also the high end stuff trickles down to the middle as refined solutions. Not good IMO for the gamer, but like you mention good for the average middle-range buyer who will benefit from more choice, and hopefully some intel production benefits too.

I recently read an article about intel's integrated graphics that reminded me of something, that while they may produce more graphics chips than anyone else, they'r virtually giving them away (due to the minor if any markup on a board with/without graphics), so this will likely be a profitable venture for intel, and that is definitely what will driver them towards that under $250 crowd.

Maybe they will make GPUs significantly beter than nV and AMD, but likely they will never push as hard as ATi and nV pushed each other in the high end.

Agreed. Scary thinking that we will be stuck with 9xxx or what ever GPUs for 2-3 years at a time.
March 19, 2008 9:17:00 PM

Wow, resurrected from the dead this thread is.
March 19, 2008 9:25:17 PM

I just saw this article the other day on TH but I figured somebody had already saw it and posted a thread about it but it doesn't seem anyone has seen it. According to this, Intel wants to make cards a lot more power efficient....

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/17/intel_to_compete...
a b U Graphics card
March 19, 2008 10:05:47 PM

Thats not really what Intel means. They want to change the entire way graphics work on your rig, Eiminate the discrete gpu entirely, going with a cpu/gpu chip only, by possibly using raytracing.
!