And now Intel mouths off

[turpit]

Now Intel is whining about comparing K10 to C2D instead of Penryn.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070606PD219.html

What a waste comparing K10 or Penryn to anything since you cant buy either and no independant third party benches exist.

 

[Anoobis]

I think this bit sums it up nicely.

While Intel may have a point that it is not fair to compare an AMD CPU launched in 2007 with an Intel one introduced in 2006, we have little doubt that when Penryn shows up in 2008, we will be hearing the same apples to oranges comparisons but with the roles reversed.

Intel would never do that.

 

[darious00777]

Seems fair to me. Conroe classed chip are what's out there now. 15% better then Conroe doesn't say much about Barcelona.

 

[tamalero]

I think this bit sums it up nicely.

While Intel may have a point that it is not fair to compare an AMD CPU launched in 2007 with an Intel one introduced in 2006, we have little doubt that when Penryn shows up in 2008, we will be hearing the same apples to oranges comparisons but with the roles reversed.

Intel would never do that.

well *coughs*
didnt they fired Conroe, against a 3-4 years old K8 ? XD


dont know you guys, but that sounds very hypocrit from intel

I can see later when they toss nehalem "no, its fair because we say so now"

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I think this bit sums it up nicely.

While Intel may have a point that it is not fair to compare an AMD CPU launched in 2007 with an Intel one introduced in 2006, we have little doubt that when Penryn shows up in 2008, we will be hearing the same apples to oranges comparisons but with the roles reversed.

Intel would never do that.

well *coughs*
didnt they fired Conroe, against a 3-4 years old K8 ? XD


dont know you guys, but that sounds very hypocrit from intel

I can see later when they toss nehalem "no, its fair because we say so now"

There's a difference though. By the time Barcelona comes out.. Penryn will be out.

So to show Barcelona beating Conroe right now is not painting a picture of what the landscape will look like once Barcelona is released (as it will be competing with Penryn).

 

[G01NTC]

dont know you guys, but that sounds very hypocrit from intel

I can see later when they toss nehalem "no, its fair because we say so now"

By that time, it will be AMD turn to cry foul.

 

[the_vorlon]

Maybe I have missed something, but isn't the valid comparison what I can buy TODAY versus the alternatives I can buy TODAY.

I can't buy vaporware, or engineering samples, of future roadmaps. I get to buy actual retail product released for mass consumption.

Today it's Athlon x2 versus Core2Duo and/or Clovertown versus Opteron.

The fact Opteron is 4 years old versus Clovertown being 1 year old is, frankly, utterly irrelevant to me. CPUs, unlike Scotch Whisky, don't improve with age.

6 months from now, if Barcelona is faster than Clovertown, the fact it's newer is equally beside the point.

Regarding Intel saying it should be Penryn versus Barcelona, if they are both for sale at the same point in time, I agree, if they don't co-exist in time/space, then I don't agree.

A football game is played between the two teams as the exist TODAY, and the rules don't change if you have all rookies or all vetaerns in the line up.

Could you imagine a coach in the post game media interviews saying "Well we lost by 14 points, but next year we have 3 really high draft picks, so this result doesn't count" ??? - He would, correctly, be laughed out of the joint.

<<shakes head>>

I compare what I can buy today versus the other stuff I can buy today.

The rest is fluff that really matters very little.

I hope Barcelona kicks butt, and I hope Penryn kicks back even harder. It makes the stuff I can actually buy all the more affordable.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

That's exactly my point.

Penryn will be avaible at the same time as Barcelona. Therefore benching Barcelona with Conroe doesn't really make sense to me.

As when both are released there will be like a 1-3 month difference between the two.

 

[goldragon_70]

There's a difference though. By the time Barcelona comes out.. Penryn will be out.

So to show Barcelona beating Conroe right now is not painting a picture of what the landscape will look like once Barcelona is released (as it will be competing with Penryn).

Well since Penryn isn't out, AMD has to use a CPU people have used to have a comparison that people can identify with, plus I don't thank either really know how good the other is, so they can't make even a good estimation of the difference between.

 

[boner]

... and then i buy you a drink.... shorty what you think 'bout that ill be in the red cadillac (bored) :?

 

[turpit]

I think this bit sums it up nicely.

While Intel may have a point that it is not fair to compare an AMD CPU launched in 2007 with an Intel one introduced in 2006, we have little doubt that when Penryn shows up in 2008, we will be hearing the same apples to oranges comparisons but with the roles reversed.

Intel would never do that.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[turpit]

Seems fair to me. Conroe classed chip are what's out there now. 15% better then Conroe doesn't say much about Barcelona.

However, there are no K10 chips 'out there' to actually compare to C2D, are there?

 

[turpit]

I think this bit sums it up nicely.

While Intel may have a point that it is not fair to compare an AMD CPU launched in 2007 with an Intel one introduced in 2006, we have little doubt that when Penryn shows up in 2008, we will be hearing the same apples to oranges comparisons but with the roles reversed.

Intel would never do that.

well *coughs*
didnt they fired Conroe, against a 3-4 years old K8 ? XD


dont know you guys, but that sounds very hypocrit from intel

I can see later when they toss nehalem "no, its fair because we say so now"

There's a difference though. By the time Barcelona comes out.. Penryn will be out.

So to show Barcelona beating Conroe right now is not painting a picture of what the landscape will look like once Barcelona is released (as it will be competing with Penryn).

I agree with Tam, but your point may, or may not be valid. Depends on when K10 is actually, really, truly, finally is released, doesnt it? That and the validity of theory that Intel is ready to go with penryn and waiting to drop it the day after K10 just to steal AMDs thunder.

 

[Valdis]

well *coughs*
didnt they fired Conroe, against a 3-4 years old K8 ? XD


dont know you guys, but that sounds very hypocrit from intel

I can see later when they toss nehalem "no, its fair because we say so now"

totally agree on this one

 

[darious00777]

Seems fair to me. Conroe classed chip are what's out there now. 15% better then Conroe doesn't say much about Barcelona.

However, there are no K10 chips 'out there' to actually compare to C2D, are there?

Even when there are, not many are going to go out and buy them right away. Plenty will, yes, but Barcelona against Penryn will likely being an even keel on the low end, with Penryn likely winning out on the high. Just like it is now.

It'll be two to three generations, by my guess, until AMD chips will beat or be considered more desireable then Intel chips like they were duing K8's heyday.

 

[HYST3R]

speculation, speculation, speculation.

 

[xpresso]

and I can buy Barcelona where?
I bet you Penryn will be available in 5x the volume of Barcelona in Q4 2007 that is if Barcelona shows up :?

 

[Viperabyss]

Now Intel is whining about comparing K10 to C2D instead of Penryn.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070606PD219.html

What a waste comparing K10 or Penryn to anything since you cant buy either and no independant third party benches exist.

I don't know why Intel is whining, when Conroe is trouncing Barcelona (due to bad stepping) at the moment.

According to Charlie (yep, that Charlie), that the current stepping B0 is completely broken.

Link

The ones floating at the show are so broken they are not worth benchmarking. They are stable enough to finish up platforms and BIOSes, which is what this round of samples was meant to do.

They are far from full clocked, half the FP/SSE resources are broken, and the memory controller is barely functional.

On the up side, when they get debugged, things will get better/faster, presumably by a lot.

On the down side, they are not out, not imminent, and Intel has a new product coming out.

-Charlie

It is interesting that, Charlie was the one hyping the "speed boost" on B0 stepping Barcelona several months ago.

Although this may shed more light on why Barcelona was only running at 1.6Ghz in Computex, I would still take Charlie's words with a grain of salt.

 

[mpjesse]

That's exactly my point.

Penryn will be avaible at the same time as Barcelona. Therefore benching Barcelona with Conroe doesn't really make sense to me.

As when both are released there will be like a 1-3 month difference between the two.

Good point. I personally can't see how AMD is going to make any significant sales w/ Barcelona. When AMD releases Barcey they'll just bottom out prices w/ Kentsfield and beat AMD at the price/performance ratio. To complicate things even further it's very likely Intel will competitively price Penryn w/ Barcelona. It's not a tough decision:

Pay a premium for a chip (Barcey) that's marginally faster than what's currently available (Kentsfield)

OR

Pay rock bottom prices for the chip that's available in massive quantities and it more than adequate for customer needs

I'm going to take a gander and say OEM's will opt for the latter option... not because they want to but because their customers will demand it (it being low prices).

I mean... if the Barcelona performance curve was something in the range of 50 to 75% better... (like C2D was)... maybe OEM's will bite. But that doesn't look like it'll be the case.

 

[Viperabyss]

and by having to lower the premium prices on Barcelonas, AMD would take another financial blow, not to mention that Barcelona's success will be the only thing AMD need at the moment.

If Intel continue this strategy, I suspect that AMD's bankruptcy wouldn't be that far away.

 

[mpjesse]

3 months ago I would have disagreed about bankruptcy... but the case FOR is undoubtedly stronger than ever. i would have disagreed because at the time it looked like R600 was going to shape up as a bad ass GPU. I even wrote a op-ed on Graphics Cards about how the R600 was going to be crucial to AMD's success this year. but as it turns out it's the biggest piece of junk since nVidia's famed failure known as the GeForceFX 5xxx series.

AMD doesn't have a damned thing on the horizon (including Barcey) that's going to keep them afloat financially. So unless they're working on some super secretive shocker that's gonna follow up Barcey or R600... yeah, they're screwed.

 

[Viperabyss]

Now I'm starting to believe that AMD should put every hope on R600.

Even if Barcelona trounces Penryn, AMD must improvement Barcelona to sustain after Nehalem. That's two uarchs (an improved, and a new one) to surpass. It surely won't be easy for AMD to tweak K10 enough to do that. On the other hand, even IF K10 does perform on par with Nehalem, Intel will, undoubtedly, start a price war again. AMD has already been through one of them, and is crippled badly. To start a second price war with Intel is definitely not financially sound.

At least in R600's case, nVidia is not big enough (as opposed to AMD vs. Intel), to start a crippling price war with ATi.

 

[Shizamaaur]

Really though.. look at how long it took Intel to trump AMD.. and look that their size! Give them a freaking break guys, calm down, its not like extra 5 seconds shaved off of encoding is going to save your life... for AMD's size compared to the gorilla they are doing amazing! And the low end procs right now are at an excellent price.. who really needs a quad core that can encode blah blah anything 5-20 seconds faster? at 5 times the cost? no thanks! I can wait!

 

[tamalero]

i use my quad core right now
it cut my driver build times down from 45 minutes to 10 minutes

actually that would be an awsome multicore benchmark
who builds a test driver faster

but... how many people do render videos that require 4 cores?
remember like 70& of the population is happy with something that can let them open outlook express & microsoft messager XD

 

[Shizamaaur]

I'm not saying it's not great for some..I would like to have one, but I mean the common uses and stipulations don't account for the cost, IMO.