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Best SD picture on a HDTV

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Anonymous
January 28, 2005 11:28:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do
this with all the sets.

Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent
SD picture.

Willi
goldens@frii.com

More about : picture hdtv

Anonymous
January 28, 2005 1:33:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do this
> with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent SD
> picture.

I understand, based on testimony here and on the AVS Forum, that the ILA
sets from JVC do the best job, due to their special software that smoothes
out the image in the lines that are inserted to bring a 480 image up to the
720 display. However, I also see some claims that the latest crt projection
sets do a good job as well.
January 28, 2005 6:16:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Simple.
A really good tv will make a mediocre signal look far worse than you're used
to seeing on a mediocre TV.
Garbage in, garbage out...only more so on an HDTV.

"Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do this
> with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent SD
> picture.
>
> Willi
> goldens@frii.com
Related resources
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:30:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I found that using a CableCard so that the TV tuner processes the signal
directly from the cable improved SD pictures considerably over using a cable
company box.

mack
austin


"Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do this
> with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent SD
> picture.
>
> Willi
> goldens@frii.com
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 7:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in
news:zbmdncusKrXVxmfcRVn-rA@magma.ca:

>
> "Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
> news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
>> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program
>> on the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty
>> good. However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up
>> to do this with all the sets.
>>
>> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a
>> decent SD picture.
>
> I understand, based on testimony here and on the AVS Forum, that the
> ILA sets from JVC do the best job, due to their special software that
> smoothes out the image in the lines that are inserted to bring a 480
> image up to the 720 display. However, I also see some claims that the
> latest crt projection sets do a good job as well.

I'm VERY happy with my old (well not VERY old) Samusung 2795HF's handling
of SD. My satellite box puts out SD in 480i, 480p or 1080i depending how
it's set. I use the 480p setting and the pictures are excellent.


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
January 28, 2005 10:38:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Willi & Sue wrote:
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program
on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty
good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to
do
> this with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a
decent
> SD picture.
>
> Willi
> goldens@frii.com

This is one of those little secrets of HDTVs (and why what brand and
model you buy is important). The short answer is that analog signal has
always looked that bad and unfortunately HDTVs just show these ugly
details. To compensate some manufactuers have added features such as 3D
Comb Filtering (pretty common these days on most sets) and less common
1080i upconversion/scaling which takes the analog signal and applies
some image processing to clean it up.

Some brands that offer both upconversion and filtering are: Hitachi,
Sony, Toshibia (on their HX series), Pioneer (Elite series),
Mitsubishi.
January 28, 2005 11:28:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Willi & Sue wrote:

> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do
> this with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent
> SD picture.
>
> Willi
> goldens@frii.com

To get the SD stations to look quite good I've had to turn down the
contrast and sharpness when watching those channels. I also discovered
that by using a splitter and having one cable go to the cable box and
another directly to the TV the SD channels are much clearer on the input
connected directly to the TV. For the few channels that look a lot
better that way I simply change the input with the button on my remote.
I can also save separate settings for each input which saves me from
having to reduce the sharpness and contrast when watching SD channel.

Sharon
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 12:26:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I went to 6 different stores and viewed 3 different sets in particular. I
looked at HD and SD quality only. I thought the mits looked best to ME.

It's good you are looking at the full gambit of owning an HDTV. I'd only
suggest you go to more stores and observe the same models over and over
again and purchase what looks good to you.

I don't know what makes one better than the other TECHNICALLY, but it seemed
to be the sets with built-in tuners had better SD quality. Of the 3 I was
looking at seriously, only one didn't.

Happy Hunting!
Don

"Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do this
> with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent SD
> picture.
>
> Willi
> goldens@frii.com
January 30, 2005 2:36:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:28:14 -0700, Willi & Sue <goldens@frii.com>
wrote:

>While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
>the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do
>this with all the sets.
>
>Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent
>SD picture.
>
>Willi
>goldens@frii.com


Very good signal strength is important. Clean up your cable and add a
wideband video amplifier ahead of your set.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 3:46:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Willi & Sue" <goldens@frii.com> wrote in message
news:41fa59d3$0$208$75868355@news.frii.net...
> While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
> the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.
> However, they (and the other places I looked at) aren't set up to do this
> with all the sets.
>
> Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent SD
> picture.

A major consideration is the resolution. SD NTSC is 480i meaning
alternating odd and even fields of 240 lines each. If you view that signal
on something like an ED plasma which is 480p it looks great because it's an
even match. If you view it on a DLP which is 720p it can also look great
because 240x3=720. But if you view it on a screen with a goofy resolution
like 768p or 1024i or even 1080i the TV has to interpolate (make up) too
many pixels in an odd way to fill up the empty lines. These goofy
resolutions never should have been made as this side effect is unavoidable.
Some HD CRTs are 960i (480x2) instead of 1080i for this reason. This same
problem even exists to a lesser degree when scaleing 720p up to 1080i. In
addition to the interlace problems. Ugh.

Scaleing down is much easier. Since a 1080i picture has more than
information than 1024, 768, 720 or 480 you only have to be moderately
skilled to produce a good picture with an HD signal on a screen with a lower
resolution.

I've ignored horizontal resolution here because while the vertical
resolution is discrete, NTSC has traditionally blurred the pixels together
and many formats are used for broadcast, cable, DBS, VHS, DVD, etc. Of
course, the most popular HD res of 1920 is actually produced on cameras that
are really 1440x1080p at 30Hz! Which the networks then ruin, I mean,
transcode into 1920x1080i at 60Hz which doesn't match the camera or the TV.

Anyway, screens that display great SD content are things like:

853x480p ED plasmas like Panasonic

1280x720p DLPs like Samsung

960i CRTs like Sony XBR



Screens that display SD content poorly are typically things like:

1366x768 (typically HD plasmas)

1024x1024i (Alis paneled plasmas)

800x600 LCDs

1024x768 HD LCDs.


The new LCDs, DLPs and ILA (LCoS) can physically support showing just the
right resolution but most don't include that as a feature because most
people want the whole screen used even if it's in a goofy stretch mode that
looks terrible. Some video processors or Home Theater Computers can do it.


X
January 30, 2005 8:07:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hello,
<<While looking for an HDTV, I had the guy at Best Buy put a SD program on
the different sets. They ranged in quality from terrible to pretty good.

Why this disparity? What to look for in a HDTV that will give a decent
SD picture.>>

Ah!! I had Dish using their HD 811 receiver until last month (I switched to
T-W Cable, see my post about the switch) and I had to use its S-Video out
into an S-Video in on the TV to watch SD channels as SD as seen through the
digital input of my Mitsubishi TV was just awful. Strangely, T-W's new 8000
HD box is quite different. SD as seen through the digital HD input is just
fine. So obviously the receiver has an enormous amount of effect on the
final quality of the picture. The Mitsubishi TV is 3 years old but a
Platinum model with an extra fine resolution of pixels. So it is sensitive
to the quality of the receiver. Thank goodness, for once T-W cable has done
right. Showtime on demand is a hit with my daughters when they come down for
a weekend.
Roger
!