OC Problems... NF41 mobo w/ 3700+ San Diego

[sportwarrior]

So here's the deal...

I have an older Socket 939 eVGA NF41 mainboard to go along with a 3700+ San Diego. I decided I'd dabble a little in overclocking with my existing processor before upgrading to an Opty 170. I took my first little step this morning and had quite a big snag...

I adjusted the "CPU Clock at Next Book is" setting from the default 200mhz to 210mhz... That should have boosted my overall CPU speed from 2.2ghz to 2.31ghz in a single step. If it were unstable, I still would have been able to boot up the computer.

However, as soon as I saved the BIOS settings and restarted the system failed to boot. It gave me a Post Code 26, and after a brief panic I reset the CMOS successfully. The only setting I adjusted was the CPU Clock speed, which I assumed would be harmless at a 10 mhz jump... Can someone perhaps tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Why would the entire board fail like that? Perhaps my memory timings were too high and I overloaded the CPU's memory controller? I can't imagine I'd have to crank up the mainboard chipset voltage with such a small tweak, so I'm thinking it's memory. I had the timings set at 2-3-2-5 1T, which is pretty fast. I at least should have set it to 2T.

Anyway, I still have the original BIOS and have not flashed it at all. I suppose I should, as the original BIOS (purchased in September of 2005) isn't very OC friendly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, fellas.

 

[sportwarrior]

hmm... I thought someone woulda been able to offer some advice by now... Anyone?

 

[Farhang]

OK OK, it's not that easy my friend.
OC'ing you CPU to 210MHz makes your FSB to operate at 210x5=1050MHz and that's not good.
So you have to reduce HT Multi from 5x to 4x (210x4=840MHz) and also reduce your memory speed to 333MHz(if you have DDR400MHz)cause overclocking your CPU forces your memory to operate at higher speed than standard speed so your system will fail to boot!
I have a 4000+ San Diego so i think i can help you a little.

You can try this setup but at your own risk: :!:
Reduce your memory speed from 400(200MHz) to 333(166)MHz.(don't change any voltage or timing)
Reduce HTT Multi from 5x to 4x.
Disable any Spreed Spectrum.
Disable Cool`n`Quiet.
Disable any Auto-Oerclocking.
Increase your FSB from 200MHz to 220MHz.
Do not change any voltage.
Save and reboot, if stable at boot you can increase FSB by 5MHz and see if it's stable or not.
When passing 225MHz you need to increase CPU voltage(v-core) by 0.05v
Make sure your full load temp never goes above 55c.
use Prime95 to test your system stabilities for at least 30min~2Hours.
I don't recommend to go above 2.5~2.6GHz.(240MHz FSB)
Always have an eye on temps!
Run some 3DMark benchmark for testing stabilities too.

Here is my setup:
250x11=2750MHz
v-core: 1.45v
memory speed: 250x0.83x2=415MHz
memory timing: 2.5-3-3-7-2T
memory voltage: 2.7v
FSB=250x4=1GHz
Idle temp: 40~41c
Full load: 53~55c

Good luck bud!

 

[sportwarrior]

Thanks a bunch, man, that right there is a ton of help.

I will say, though, that my HT multiplier was already at 4x for some reason. I think it always has been I just never adjusted it.

Anyway, I'll adjust the memory timings and address the other things you suggested to see where it gets me. I hadn't had a boot failure like that before, so I paniced a little when it happened. Hopefully I can get a successful OC boot this evening. Thanks!

And, of course, any additional help/suggestions are greatly appreciated, as well.

 

[Farhang]

Just in my experience with 939 systems, some mother boards have problem with 4x HT Multi so if you have some more boot failure try 3x.

BTW, If you reach a stable 2.4GHz CPU then try this:
Reduce CPU Multi from 11x to 10x.
Use 250MHz FSB.
3x/4x Multi.
333MHz memory.
1.45v CPU Voltage.
Anything else at stock.

And you should get a nice 2.5GHz CPU & if you can reach this stable, then leave it there cause it's a great overclocking!
Good luck and happy overclocking, just keep me informed from your journey!

 

[sportwarrior]

Question on temps... When using programs like SpeedFan and MyGuard, I see CPU temps ranging from 50C - 55C. When using programs like CoreTemp, I get a reading of 34-38C... Why am I seeing such a huge difference? Also, CoreTemp rates my "TCaseMax" at 55C.. haven't been able to find anyone who will tell me exactly what that means...

 

[ethel]

I will say, though, that my HT multiplier was already at 4x for some reason. I think it always has been I just never adjusted it.

If it is 4 by default, bring it down to 3 - you could have one of the earlier NForce boards that could only handle an 800MHz HT Bus. You can always put it up to 4 when you are sure that the HT Bus is not your bottleneck.

 

[ethel]

Question on temps... When using programs like SpeedFan and MyGuard, I see CPU temps ranging from 50C - 55C. When using programs like CoreTemp, I get a reading of 34-38C... Why am I seeing such a huge difference? Also, CoreTemp rates my "TCaseMax" at 55C.. haven't been able to find anyone who will tell me exactly what that means...

The core temp is usually higher than the CPU temp, so yours are the wrong way round which is odd. You should make sure that you are looking at the right value in Speedfan by running an intensive process and watching for the value that climbs consistently.

If your CPU temp goes above 60 at load you need to get it down, whereas the core temp can go up to about 70 without any alarm.

TCaseMax is a fixed rating for your processor which varies from stepping to stepping. It is somewhat related to the TDP of the processor.

Usually the higher the TCaseMax, the hotter it runs and the more overclockable it is (although only within its family, so you can't compare Opterons to X2s for example).

 

[sirheck]

which I assumed would be harmless at a 10 mhz jump.

It should be.
I have bumped my 3700 up to 2630mhz with 4 512 sticks of ram
and got 2730mhz with 2 sticks of the same ram(more ram smokes the oc though)
This was with the timmings at 3.3.3.8 and 2.5.3.3.8 And 2T for 4 sticks

And the htt and vlts were stock. [/code]

 

[sportwarrior]

Regarding the HTT Bus speed... My BIOS actually doesn't have a setting for the multiplier. Instead, it has a setting for the actual speed. Right now it appears to be set at 800mhz, but there is indeed a setting for 1000mhz. I'm confused by that, though, because I'm not sure why the dont just have a multiplier setting.

Regarding the temperatures... Yes, it is odd. I've had an ongoing battle with this dating back to when I first built the machine. Originally, SpeedFan could not properly detect my mainboard temp sensors because the board was so new at the time (August/September 05)... Instead eVGA and Jetway recommended the use of MyGuard, which always gave me a temp of 45-55C. Now, using CoreTemp, it says me Core is running at a much cooler 34-38C, while SpeedFan and MyGuard still rate it at 50+. To make matters more confusing, my BIOS also gauges my CPU at 54-57C on startup, which makes very little sense to me (not sure how it can go from cold to 55C in 5-10 seconds)...

In any event I am going to flash my BIOS when I get home this evening. I'm about 3 revisions behind current, and the newer revisions supposedly have better OC settings. Also, in case it helps, I'm running an eVGA nForce4 K8-NF41 mainboard, along with 2x1GB OCZ PC3200 Dual Channel Platinum RAM @DDR400...

 

[sirheck]

In any event I am going to flash my BIOS when I get home this evening

That can make a big difference

 

[sportwarrior]

Well I flashed the BIOS and it gave me 0 extra settings to mess with. On top of that, I'm still unable to identify where the tweak the HT multiplier. I assume it's the "HT Frequency" setting, but I'm not sure why it'd list the Frequencies themselves instead of the multipliers...

 

[sportwarrior]

**Update**

So it worked... I did pretty much exactly you said, Farhang, and I'm looking at a jump in all sorts of scores. I'm sitting pretty with a CPU speed of 2420 mhz... The crazy thing is the CPU is running COOLER according to both the CoreTemp and MyGuard readings... the Core reading is 33C and the MyGuard reading is 42C, down from 51C... I'm going to run some stability tests, but I already knocked out Aquamark with a 13k improvement in overall score and 2k improvement in both GFX and CPU scores... I'm stoked and can't wait to push a tad more

 

[ethel]

Good news indeed. Overclocking is fun eh?

 

[Farhang]

So it worked... I did pretty much exactly you said, Farhang, and I'm looking at a jump in all sorts of scores. I'm sitting pretty with a CPU speed of 2420 mhz... The crazy thing is the CPU is running COOLER according to both the CoreTemp and MyGuard readings... the Core reading is 33C and the MyGuard reading is 42C, down from 51C... I'm going to run some stability tests, but I already knocked out Aquamark with a 13k improvement in overall score and 2k improvement in both GFX and CPU scores... I'm stoked and can't wait to push a tad more

Well, that's a good news!
OK OK, so you are at 220x11=2420MHz.
your memory is at 220*0.83*2=365.5MHz (don't worry about that, you don't lose any performance!)
Now you can push it even higher if your system is stable! :twisted:
Try 225x11=2475MHz
(Don't change any voltage or timing)
If stable, try 230MHz, if not rise the CPU voltage(v-core) by 0.025v or 0.05v then see if it gets stable, but it should be stable without any over voltaging!
Continue to add 5MHz and then test the system stabilities!
If you are to past 2.5GHz i think you MAY need to increase v-core by 0.05v to get a stable system.(but always test stabilities before adding more voltage!)
At 240x11=2640MHz your memory reaches standard 400MHz!
Above 240MHz you need to play with memory timings and voltage and that's why i wouldn't recommend to go above 240MHz!(some guys reached 240MHz without by stock voltages so may be so lucky and reach that speed with stock clocks!)
240x11=2640MHz witch means you have a 40MHz overclocked Athlon 64 FX55 and that's what i called hardcore overclocking! :twisted:
:!: Just make sure that you have an eye on temps! :!:
By the way, hardwares are different so may reach a wall where you can't go any further even by adding v-core, so prepare to see that!
Good luck and keep me informed!

 

[sportwarrior]

Good news indeed. Overclocking is fun eh?

Haha yeah... I haven't really done much with this machine since I built it, but I'm remembering how fun it is to tinker with this stuff.

And Farhang, I've already tried the 225x11 step and passed. I'm at work again, but when I get home you can bet I'll get right back to tweaking and testing the machine! On my way home I'm probably gonna pick up some new thermal compound and two new system fans, as I haven't reapplied the stuff since I built the machine and the airflow probably could use some improvement.

 

[HA_ZEE]

I have to tell everyone one in this thread that I am enjoying following it. There is so much crap in some of the other posts lately that this one is a very refreshing change. Very informative posts Farhang (I will use this to tinkerputz with my sys) and good luck with the overclocking Sportwarrior.

 

[Farhang]

And Farhang, I've already tried the 225x11 step and passed. I'm at work again, but when I get home you can bet I'll get right back to tweaking and testing the machine! On my way home I'm probably gonna pick up some new thermal compound and two new system fans, as I haven't reapplied the stuff since I built the machine and the airflow probably could use some improvement.

OK, just keep me informed!
Just remember: Do not add v-core until you need more and do not add more than 0.05v!
Make sure your CPU temp never goes above 55~56c.

I have to tell everyone one in this thread that I am enjoying following it. There is so much crap in some of the other posts lately that this one is a very refreshing change. Very informative posts Farhang (I will use this to tinkerputz with my sys) and good luck with the overclocking Sportwarrior.

Thanks bud!

 

[Farhang]

Regarding the HTT Bus speed... My BIOS actually doesn't have a setting for the multiplier. Instead, it has a setting for the actual speed. Right now it appears to be set at 800mhz, but there is indeed a setting for 1000mhz. I'm confused by that, though, because I'm not sure why the don't just have a multiplier setting.

My motherboard uses the same method for HT Multi and you are right about that, 1000MHz is 5x and 800MHz is 4x and...unless you want to go over 250MHz you should keep it at 800MHz.

 

[sportwarrior]

Update

Last night I spend only a little time on the overclocking... I'm at 230x11 with no problems.

I spent most of my time installing a pair of new system fans and reapplying thermal grease to the CPU. The grease application went ok, I guess, but the coretemp readings are kind of strange... Normally when I've unsuccessfully applied the grease (too much or too little) the coretemp is averaging a little too high... When I apply the right amount, it's averaging just right... This time, for whatever reason, the idle/light load temp is fluctuating between 34C and 40C... like jumping from 34 up to 38 down to 36 up to 40 down to 37 kind of fluctuating... Not sure if this is normal or what... MyGuard is still reading idle temps around 41-44C consistently, so I'm not sure what's up... Am I interfering with a sensor or something?

Other than that everything is entirely stable. I'll knock up the core speed another 5mhz when I get home to see what happens.

 

[trinitron64]

Just to give you some motivation, I too own a 3700+ San Diego.

I ran it at 2.2 Ghz for... maybe a month. Then I spent about a year trying to get it to 3.0Ghz.

That never happened. I notice that you do not aspire to reach some crazy-high OC and that is good. Do not reach for what you think is best, reach for the best your CPU can do.

I eventually got it to an unstable 2.7Ghz that caused me a great deal of problems... I believe it was an hour prime95 stable... i was screwing rar files up by unpacking them, losing files when transferring them from disk to disk and having problems burning and gaming. I believe I even booted up one day and windows would no longer load.

So 2.6Ghz my system stayed at... for probably 8 months.

That was the highest my San Diego would go.

So I pushed on :lol: :lol:

Now I sit at a 24 hour prime95 stable 28XX.XX overclock which is a slightly (by couple dozen Mhz) overclocked FX-57.

And I am doing so on an uber-shitty chipset. Asrock lol.

Remember... only go as high as you can possibly go... and then let your system get used to that clock speed... AND THEN GO FURTHER!!

Temps are only a problem when it comes to volts... with these new(ish) cpus it is really hard to damage them (when volts are kept relatively low) with heat because if they get too hot they will just lock the system up and if they are a little too hot over a long period of time, benchmarks will show the dip in performance.

Also remember that since there is an integrated memory controller on the cpu die itself, the speed of the memory is not as important as the speed of the cpu. In fact I ran my OCZ premium at 180mhz(ish) while i was at 2.6Ghz and it was plenty fast for me.

In closing

Ask not what your San Diego can do for you, but what you can do for your San Deigo.

GodSpeed :twisted: