Upgrade from 6800GT to ???

[evilh]

I have a Galaxy 6800GT (AGP) which must be coming up for 3 years old, in a rig with:
AMD 3500+ (winchester core) on
ASUS A8V Deluxe board with
2GB Corsair Value Select RAM powered by an
Enermax 420W Noisetaker (2 +12V rails at 14A and 15A)

My options to upgrade are limited and TH Guide to Best cards June - says to move 3 levels up. This puts me into an AGP 1950 Pro, but I have concerns over the power requirements as they seem wide-ranging even on these forums and never had a Radeon (always been NVidia), but not a fanboi.

Stay with AGP and upgrade card - or wait until a total move to Intel 6600 and PCI 8800GTS (hopefully later this year).

Relatively incapable computer upgraded needs to be taken into account (I just flashed my BIOS after 3 years and it took me an hour to get my SATA HDD recognised)!

Ta

 

[yakyb]

i recently upgraded to a 1950 pro from a 6800gt (forced as the gt broke)
an TBH i havn't noticed a world of difference

incidently i also run a 3500 but use PCI-e instead so my honest advice would be to start thinking about a system overhaul. you have a very capable computer there but no doubt your running 939 DDR and AGP so your upgrade options are very limited. im currently holding out until crysis is released before makinga desicion whether i need to upgrade or not as i would prefer to wait for the penryn agena battle but we will see

hope ive helped

 

[Talon]

I also upgraded from a 6800GT to the 1950Pro a few months ago. I was pretty excited at first as I did see a bit of a boost in smoothness with games like Prey, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion.

After some reflection since then, I realize other games like WoW and Cars(sons game he's 5), Half-Life 2 and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic ranging from 0 difference at all (WoW) to marginal differences(HL2 & M&M) I would do it differently if I had it to do over again.

If today I made the same choice, assuming you have the $ to do it, I'd upgrade to a PCI-E card like the 8800GTS minimum and system would have to be compatible with C2D socket even if thats not what I used right away. Then I would have seen a world of difference instead of either no difference to some noticable difference but nothing dramatic.

I am somewhat happy with my purchase as at the time I didn't have the $ to do full system upgrade but wish I'd just waited and put the $ towards full system upgrade now. Decide how much you can spend and make your choice, it IS an upgrade but nothing mind-blowing in any way with the games I play the most.

 

[yipsl]

On my older rig, I upgraded from a Radeon 9800 Pro to an X1650 Pro and saw a difference, but as people pointed out, there's not too much of a difference between the 6800 and X1950.

I'd wait for the 8600GT to come out in AGP. That way, you'd at least have DX10 functionality. Though it was supposed to be out by now, it could still arrive in time for DX10 games this holiday season.

If that doesn't work, the X2600 will be available in AGP for sure:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7556

If I'd have known this, I'd have waited for the X2600 AGP. I just upgraded the old system for shader 3.0 in April.

 

[Farhang]

Better save your money for a Full-System upgrade.
If you are to build a C2D E6600 & 8800GTS system, then put the extra cash that you want to buy the X1950pro to a 8800GTX instead of 8800GTS or a Q6600 instead of E6600.
God bless you!

 

[overlandpark4me]

Hey, as an add on to this:

Would you go from an XFX 6800GT up to an XFX 7600GT for $96.99 (after $20 rebate & $10 GoogleCheckout @ buy.com)

My kid is further back to a 754 board, which we just upped the CPU from 2800 to 3400 (70 bucks & helped). I can always take his 6800GT and upgrade my 6600GT as a bonus. I've read some places that he would be processor limited if he goes to high on the card power, but I would think this one wouldn't be an issue, and our next upgrade will be a new rig next year. He plays CS:S 90 percent of the time. Looking for another cheap upgrade without the big step.

 

[Farhang]

Actually there isn't much performance difference between a 6800GT and a 7600GT, at least i wouldn't pay ~100$ for such a small upgrade.
Better go for a 7900GS or X1900GT or save that 100$ for your next full system upgrade.

 

[evilh]

OK pretty unanimous then. Provided the wife wins her employment tribunal in September - the first £1000 is mine for a full upgrade!
Ta

 

[shellofinsanity]

i had the 6800GT PNY 256mb card, it wasnt a terrible card at all in todays games, granted i went from a 6800GT to an 8600GTS that i just sold to make ends meet, but i used my old 6800GT from 04-07 before finally deciding to upgrade, and i didnt see a boost in older games and saw marginal in newer games, and the 8600GTS and 1950pro run neck and neck. My advice is go DX10 PCIe if your gonna do anything DX9 is old stuff now, dont waste money on upgrading to an obsolete platform.

 

[overlandpark4me]

Thanks. You think there is an issue where I'm processor limited it I go up to a 7900 or X1900 with the Amd 3400?

 

[yipsl]

Thanks. You think there is an issue where I'm processor limited it I go up to a 7900 or X1900 with the Amd 3400?

I've been trying to figure out CPU limitations vs. GPU in every generation. Many game reviews mention it, but there's no clear chart the way Tom's does VGA charts with framerates at various resolutions and with various features (ie HDR, AA, AF). Most of the card reviews use the highest end processors around, because it's easier switching out cards than card CPU combinations.

All I know is there's a point where having a low end processor, and single cores are becoming low end as games become more multithreaded, makes having a high end card almost useless. I wouldn't think a late era DX9 card would be too much for your CPU, but I don't have the actual data to say yes or no.

With the low cost of dual core now, I'd seriously consider it. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about CPU limitation unless you get the lowest end dual core CPU with the really high end cards. I'd think that a card like the 8800 Ultra wouldn't do as well with an X2 3800+ as an 8800GTS, but I could be wrong. Perhaps even the slowest dual cores provide enough room for today's first generation DX10 GPUs to perform.

Does anyone have a link to some real data on CPU limits across the class of today's DX9 and DX10 cards?

 

[shellofinsanity]

the 3400 will bottleneck you at lower res granted, but turn on the features and such, and the video card will start to take some heat, id say that CPU does bottlneck though, so going to a faster cpu once you have a good video card would help alot also.

 

[Yoosty]

I would wait until later this year or 1st qtr. of 2008, since there will be alot of new stuff out in 4 qtr. of this year.

I also upgraded my secondary computer from a Gigabyte 6800GT to a Gainward Bliss 7800GS +, that uses the G71 chip and has 24 pipelines. But at a cost of $375 and a friend in the UK that got it for me and shipped to me in the states.

http://www.mvktech.net/content/view/3368/39/

But you have to do what you have to have satifaction in playing your online games. Good Luck!!!

 

[TurdBurglar]

I just want to address the performance difference discussion that is going on. I am a little confused as to why anyone is saying that the X1950Pro offers very close performance to that of the 6800GT. All AGP platform and CPU considerations aside, let there be no mistake, the X1950Pro absolutely wipes the floor with the 6800GT in EVERY game. In a recent build, I upgraded an X800XL (essentially a 6800GT equivalent) to an X1950Pro. The difference is huge. Tom's VGA charts explain everything. Twice the framerates in some situations! My point is that the two cards are not even close to being in the same class. That is not to say that it is worth the upgrade on an AGP system. I just wanted to address the performance issue.

 

[korsen]

In most cases i'd like to think, if the graphics card upgrade is making no differences to you, then a CPU upgrade will. Remember the VGA is useless without a good CPU. Just remember back to how much faster your programs loaded and played when you upgraded CPU's, it doesn't quite happen the same way when you upgrade video cards...

 

[mactronix]

Glad it wasnt just me wondering what on earth they were going on about i was about to go for a pair of new glasses :lol:

 

[blade85]

going from a 9800 pro to x1950 pro......huuge difference

glad i bought it :lol:

 

[Ares_]

Here is what i know on low end CPUs and midrange cards! I just put a 7800GS in a friends computer to replace his geforce 4 ti4200 i belive. His CPU is a pentium 4 2.4, Oblivion is so bottlenecked that eveery time there is a physis calculation it freazes for a seocnd or two, and fear not as much but the bots in both games slow the computer to a crawl. Thats about it, good luck.

 

[yipsl]

I just want to address the performance difference discussion that is going on. I am a little confused as to why anyone is saying that the X1950Pro offers very close performance to that of the 6800GT. All AGP platform and CPU considerations aside, let there be no mistake, the X1950Pro absolutely wipes the floor with the 6800GT in EVERY game. In a recent build, I upgraded an X800XL (essentially a 6800GT equivalent) to an X1950Pro. The difference is huge. Tom's VGA charts explain everything. Twice the framerates in some situations! My point is that the two cards are not even close to being in the same class. That is not to say that it is worth the upgrade on an AGP system. I just wanted to address the performance issue.

Reasonable post, but in some games the difference isn't so great that I'd call it "wiping the floor". The overall game score is pertinent: Tom's has 1243.8 for the X1950 Pro and 662.9 for the 6800GT. That seems like alot but if their 6800GT score is the PCIe and not the AGP version, then it's a bit off. The AGP versions of those cards did much better in sheer framerate.

I play Oblivion and other CRPGs where most cards don't give huge framerate differences and a fps of 15 is quite playable. The 6800GT gives 10.2 and the X1950 Pro 26.2. In a FPS like Dark Messiah of Half Life Too (ahem, of Might and Magic -- I wish it really was LOL), the X1950 Pro gives 48 and the 6800GT 33.7.

So there is a genuine improvement, but is it worth it to upgrade to an X1950 Pro considering DX10 cards will be arriving soon for AGP? It all depends on improvements to the 8600GTS and the capabilities of the X2600 class cards in AGP. Most people say just upgrade the whole system when you can afford it. I realize that not everyone can afford that, or they might just want a last upgrade on an old system, so the question of what AGP card to get instead of a 6800GT is still valid.

So, I recommend waiting to see the performance of the 8600GT or GTS AGP cards and the performance of the X2600 class AGP cards. Even a bit lower than the X1950 Pro is worthwhile under DX9 games if the DX10 performance is playable down the line. Some DX10 games will require a dual core (ie Alan Wake) while others won't. Vista Basic runs on a single core, so DX10 decent performance under legacy processors is still a reasonable hope.

In Tom's Performance Value for DX10 review of the 8600GT, the card gives 18.76 in Oblivion while the X1950XTX gives 33. I'd say an X1950 Pro AGP is not worth it as an upgrade with decent DX10 performance arriving, performance that will probably improve with new driver builds.

 

[userax]

Upgrade. I have a P4 2.8 w/HT, and recently upgraded from a 9800pro to a 1950pro 512megs. The difference is huge. You can find a sapphire 1950pro on newegg for $170. That $170 can buy your 1-1.5 years of decent gaming. After that, you can take your remaining $850 and buy a much better system than if you build a new one now. Basically, think of the upgrade as a way to buy time. The 1950pro can handle most games fine at high settings so no need for fancy stuff yet. But when good directx 10 games come out, you can get a better x10 card and quad core (for much less than now).

And your 3500+ shouldn't bottleneck you that much. I'm doing ok with a 2.8 p4. Just turn all settings up, and the bottleneck will shift towards gpu. But still, 30-80 frame rate for call of duty 2 with all settings maxed (4AA), should get you though fine.

 

[overlandpark4me]

Thanks for input. It never even occurred to be that the proc could get overpowered by a vid card until I started to see some reviews about it. We've had some great mileage on this rig, so maybe I can roll it into a basic media center. Xmas is around the corner.

 

[shellofinsanity]

to make that 6800GT into HTPC get a VF-700 and run it at 5V and it will be fine.

 

[TurdBurglar]

I have not seen any benchmarks showing a difference between AGP and PCIe versions of the 6800GT. You might be thinking of the difference between the AGP and PCIe flavors of the 6800GS, which subsequently was in favor of the PCIe version :? . In any event, if you look at the framerates at the typical gaming resolution of 1280x1024 with eye candy, the X1950Pro nearly or more than doubles 6800GT performance (in frames/sec) in nearly every game listed on the VGA charts here at Tom's. Even in Doom 3 an Nvidia dominated OpenGL game, the X1950Pro offers nearly 60% more frames/sec. Often, the differences between the performance of the cards is the difference between a game being playable and a game being unbearable. So... reasonable post, but the bottom line is the X1950Pro is in an entirely different class than the 6800GT. The upgrade question all depends on the price of the X1950Pro and your current system specs.

 

[Gary_Busey]

I'm glad someone said something. I just found this thread and it's pretty full if misinformation. Like Turd said, the X1950Pro is a much faster, much more capable card than a 6800GT. If you play any new game, the difference will be noticeable immedietly, especially if you plan on using eye candy. Using old games as a way to judge an upgrade is not a good way of doing it. Of course you won't notice much of a difference between the two cards when playing old games because both cards can handle them easily, so we're talking about high FPS which the human eye won't notice the difference, for example you wouldn't notice much of a difference between a card that runs a game at 80FPS and one that runs it at 110. So while you're not noticing a visual difference in old games, I can bet that if you bench'd those game with FRAPS you'd see a huge disparity in the numbers. If you really want to feel good about your upgrade, pop in some Oblivion, Call of Duty 2, Company of Heroes, Battlefield 2 or any other fairly demanding, fairly current title out there. Put those eye candy sliders up, play at native resolution and bench it with your old card, then your new card.[/rant]


Oh, and on the question of should you upgrade, yes you should. Buy an X1950Pro, sell your 6800GT and get another year or so of playability out of your system.

 

[mactronix]

You just beat me to it gary was just off checking a couple of things and when i come back you have writen my post for me.
To Yips im a bit confused with where you are coming from one minuite your on about cross referencing gpu to cpu performance(good idea) but ther are too many variations to make it viable.
The next your saying your happy playing Oblivion at 15fps ??? I hope thats very min frame rates as i have just finished it and unless you enjoy watching flick books there is no way you can play at that.
You are also making IMO a lot of generalisations and assumptions,an while you are entitled to your opinion just the same as the rest of us please bearin mind that it is easy to mislead others,Hence the IMO (in my opinion )abreviation you see on the forum a lot.
Sorry if it sounds like im having a go just thought it needed saying.

Mactronix