More news about AMD going fabless

[xpresso]

for the record, I've been saying it for 9 months now, the sooner AMD comes clean, the faster we move on. AMD will never be a 1st rate chipmaker. It was fun while it lasted
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bB5B0F162-C06A-476E-8516-FBE5F8DCC32E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

 

[BaronMatrix]

for the record, I've been saying it for 9 months now, the sooner AMD comes clean, the faster we move on. AMD will never be a 1st rate chipmaker. It was fun while it lasted
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bB5B0F162-C06A-476E-8516-FBE5F8DCC32E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

Yeah, that Opteron is a piece of crap that should never have been released. Damn them.

Anyway, it says that IF AMD does that it will benefit Intel. Besides, why would they scrap two Fabs that are just ramping?

 

[petevsdrm]

for the record, I've been saying it for 9 months now, the sooner AMD comes clean, the faster we move on. AMD will never be a 1st rate chipmaker. It was fun while it lasted
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bB5B0F162-C06A-476E-8516-FBE5F8DCC32E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

I don't know, that's pretty harsh. Even with AMD behind so far in the performance department, I would still say they are a "first rate chip maker". I mean, compare AMD to Cyrix. And it wasn't all that long ago that they did have the fastest CPU's that money could buy for a home PC. So, behind, yes. Second-Rate, no.

 

[Lacostiade]

i think that it is most likely they will try to get more companies in their process development group. If they need it they can even share fabs. But going fabless, I don't think so.

 

[crazypyro]

Wonder which branch of AMD they are talking about, CPU or GPU? I think a little elboration on what pieces of silicon they're talking about would be helpful in this prediction.

AMD has superior engineers to Intel. Intel has capacity and money on AMD. Don't care how good of an engineer you are, if someone can build more than you, and spend money to market it, your product won't be very successful for far too long. Like Germany in WWII superior tanks, but America could outproduce them.

 

[BaronMatrix]

I agree I dont think AMD will ever top Intel again. I cant even believe they were able to spank Intel for the 3 years they did. AMD has always been number 2 and always will be. They just dont have the engineers and capacity Intel has. However we dont want AMD to go away because then their will be no competition and with no competition Intel can go back to charging what they want.

AMD has Dirk Meyer, and Alpha engrs, not to mention some Itanium engrs that hired from Intel/HP.

There's nothing wrong with being number two when there are only two competitors. AMD has done and will more than likely continue to do a great job making server procs that trickle down to the desktop.

I really hope they can get high clocks out of Griffin so they will have a more competitive product on the mobile front. It may even make sense to add a single core OC mechanism so that one core can turn off and the other core can OC. Intel says they are doing something like that.

Most mobile SW is single threaded anyway.

I heard from a guy on extremesystems that had an early Barcelona ES that was in his words 10% faster than Kentsfield. Scientia has a link to the thread. This was back in Feb so I think that helps prove that the shipping rev will be "40% faster on a variety of workloads."

 

[sailer]

Anyway, it says that IF AMD does that it will benefit Intel. Besides, why would they scrap two Fabs that are just ramping?

I note that the article gives no source concerning AMD going fabless, only a speculation that said that if Goldman Sachs' statment is correct, then "AMD's likely move to an outsourced business model" would benefit Intel. That's a big "if", and it does nothing to tell the possible benefits to AMD, what outsourcing or type of outsourcing or quanity of outsourcing, or anything else. This looks more like a bit of trash reporting than anything else to me.

 

[Slobogob]

Most mobile SW is single threaded anyway.

Could you explain that a little more?

I heard from a guy on extremesystems that had an early Barcelona ES that was in his words 10% faster than Kentsfield. Scientia has a link to the thread. This was back in Feb so I think that helps prove that the shipping rev will be "40% faster on a variety of workloads."

I heard from a guy on the THG forums that the early Barcelona ES didn´t work at all and the current spetting works only at speeds below 1.8 Ghz.

 

[Slobogob]

AMD has superior engineers to Intel. Intel has capacity and money on AMD. Don't care how good of an engineer you are, if someone can build more than you, and spend money to market it, your product won't be very successful for far too long. Like Germany in WWII superior tanks, but America could outproduce them.

That is a weird comparison. I somewhat resent it because it does seem a little off. The important characteristics of tanks were speed, maintainablitiy and cost of production. American and even more so russian tanks excelled at maintainability and cost of production. The german machines were to complicated, lacked spare parts and, later in the war, got way to heavy. Germany concentrated on the wrong aspects of their tanks and got what they deserved for that.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

I'm confused?...

Everybody turns on AMD because they suck at producing/fabrication?...that's the reality of their conundrum.

You can't deny that they(AMD) have put together great processors, so they are competitive in terms of putting ideas on the table.

The issue comes with getting that product to market and then backing it. Intel spent majority of their R&D on fabrication during the netburst era. Now we are seeing the fruits of that labor as well as the maturity of their PIII architecture. The architecture in C2D is just a culmination of several technologies.

AMD never really caught up to Intel, they just capitalized on the void brought about by Intel's R&D for future product.

AMD has been sprinting the last few years in their attempt to catch up in production technology. Intel has been very calculated. It's no accident that C2D over clocks so well. Enthusiasts aren't a key financial market unless you account for the clout they maintain amongst friends and family. Without that egg in their basket I'm sure AMD's financial progress wouldn't have come to such a braking hault.

So let's be real...AMD's achilles is in their fabrication process. They have a great idea on paper, it can't be realized because of their fabrication issues. If they can get some help on that front(maybe from IBM?) then you'll see a huge difference in the market.

I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that it doesn't kill the edge that has allowed AMD to create a competitive scene with Intel.

 

[zenmaster]

While this has nothing to do with PCs, the American tanks throughout WWII were junk.

In fact the tanks that the US sent to the Soviet Union via Lend Lease were mostly used to tow various items and not combat vehicles due to their significant inferiority.

Germany lost because of shear numbers.

The Russian tanks, however, were of very good quality and by the mid part of 1942 were often as good or better than their German couterparts. The superiority often swung back and forth.

Germany and Japan combined are tiny and would fit inside a small part of the US. There is no way those two countries could take on the world. Their smaller allies had no real interest in the war from their people.

The massive bombing campaign from the Westen Allies on Germany is what kept their industry in check and prevented the ability to produce enough equipment or spare parts.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Most mobile SW is single threaded anyway.

Could you explain that a little more?

I heard from a guy on extremesystems that had an early Barcelona ES that was in his words 10% faster than Kentsfield. Scientia has a link to the thread. This was back in Feb so I think that helps prove that the shipping rev will be "40% faster on a variety of workloads."

I heard from a guy on the THG forums that the early Barcelona ES didn´t work at all and the current spetting works only at speeds below 1.8 Ghz.


How many people are running Photoshop on a laptop? Maybe a desktop replacement but do you note the different terminology?

This guy at xtremesystems is a trusted member over there and that gives him more credibility.

 

[Slobogob]

How many people are running Photoshop on a laptop? Maybe a desktop replacement but do you note the different terminology?

The question is, don´t they because their processors are limiting them or don´t they because they don´t want to? I´m willing to pay for the option to use it and so are a lot of people.

This guy at xtremesystems is a trusted member over there and that gives him more credibility.

That makes his info even more reliable than AMDs official one. Yet, i will doubt his word unless i see proof since everything i´ve read so far points that the new chip will be only 40% faster in a few select benchmarks and may be just able to compete clock for clock.

 

[shellofinsanity]

While this has nothing to do with PCs, the American tanks throughout WWII were junk.

In fact the tanks that the US sent to the Soviet Union via Lend Lease were mostly used to tow various items and not combat vehicles due to their significant inferiority.

Germany lost because of shear numbers.

The Russian tanks, however, were of very good quality and by the mid part of 1942 were often as good or better than their German couterparts. The superiority often swung back and forth.

Germany and Japan combined are tiny and would fit inside a small part of the US. There is no way those two countries could take on the world. Their smaller allies had no real interest in the war from their people.

The massive bombing campaign from the Westen Allies on Germany is what kept their industry in check and prevented the ability to produce enough equipment or spare parts.

Umm the M1 Sherman tank was a great fighting tank, wasnt on par with the Tiger or the King Tiger, but those tanks where not the main tanks in germany because of there cost to built the Sherman dealt with the Panzer which was evenly matched to the M1 sherman tank. Sheer numbers didnt beat Germany back in WW2, who ever told you that was a fool. It was the will of the troops and the fact we controlled the air. The tanks of WW2 where all rather great, also Russia didnt use our tanks in battle for a totally diffrent reason, it meant a barrle change to use our tanks, because they didnt have shells that fit the Sherman, thus it would be pointless to use.


Now back on topic

AMD isnt gone yet, Intel has nothing in the value segment to compete with AMD, there Core Microarticture OC's well but is cache dependant as seen by the benchmarks of the new E2140 and E2160 where both lagged behind the X2 3600 and X2 3800. In the value world Intel still can not compete, and the Core micro articture needs large cache amounts or insane speed to beat AMD still. Also not with out ocing, the E6600 and the x2 6000 are evenly matched cpus and they cost the same, same goes for the chips down the line, to most users the X2 and the Core2 are evenly matched chips, and in the sub 50 dollar super value chips intel is still touting there Celeron D vs the Sempron which isnt anywhere that Intel stands a chance and Sempron is being sold in Dell, HP, Compaq, eMachines ect, so id say AMD is doing fine, and how soon have we forgotten AMD's glory of the Athlon beating the Pentium 3 and intel never really recovering till the Core2.

 

[bixplus]

I'm confusedSo let's be real...AMD's achilles is in their fabrication process. They have a great idea on paper, it can't be realized because of their fabrication issues. If they can get some help on that front(maybe from IBM?) then you'll see a huge difference in the market.

Well, let's see. Intel has lot's of Fab capacity. Maybe AMD can contract with Intel to produce their chips. :lol: Hey, it can happen. Imagine how ironic that would be.

 

[ARM]

While this has nothing to do with PCs, the American tanks throughout WWII were junk.

In fact the tanks that the US sent to the Soviet Union via Lend Lease were mostly used to tow various items and not combat vehicles due to their significant inferiority.

Germany lost because of shear numbers.

The Russian tanks, however, were of very good quality and by the mid part of 1942 were often as good or better than their German couterparts. The superiority often swung back and forth.

Germany and Japan combined are tiny and would fit inside a small part of the US. There is no way those two countries could take on the world. Their smaller allies had no real interest in the war from their people.

The massive bombing campaign from the Westen Allies on Germany is what kept their industry in check and prevented the ability to produce enough equipment or spare parts.

Yes, the American tanks were utter crap, when compared with the German ones. They used sandbags fo armour for christ's sake!
The Germans' undoing, however, was their pickyness about quality. The components on their tanks were incredibly well engineered, and would have lasted for a long time. This meant, however, that the tanks were expensive and slow to build and spare parts were in short supply.

I'm not sure about the Russian tanks, but I do know that in the German tanks, fuel would freeze in the lines in Russia. This obviously did not happen to Russian tanks, having been designed by the Russians :lol:
There is a Russian proverb: "When all our other generals are defeated, we still have generals January and Febuary."

There is way a small country like Germany could achieve domination. Hitler was just too insane and too much of a dictator for that to happen. Attacking Russia was his biggest mistake: 90% of German army casualties were in Russia. He also made several other critical mistakes. In order to attack Russia, he ordered the cessation of the Blitzkrieg attacks on Britain. He halted submarine production, giving Britain naval superiority. He would also insist on the planning of the war, not allowing his generals to conduct it as they saw fit.
Germany nearly had its own atomic bomb by the end of the war.
Europe as we know it only exists because Hitler was a dumbass.

 

[BaronMatrix]

So let's be real...AMD's achilles is in their fabrication process. They have a great idea on paper, it can't be realized because of their fabrication issues. If they can get some help on that front(maybe from IBM?) then you'll see a huge difference in the market.

I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that it doesn't kill the edge that has allowed AMD to create a competitive scene with Intel.

That has to be the most negative post in this thread. How can you say they can't fabricate processors? They showed them already (barcelona). Even the mighty Intel had to recall a rev of Core 2 last year because of a problem.

I say again that Anand got AM2 right before it came out and it sucked real bad. It couldn't even equal 939, but when they came out the perf was there and that was only a redesign of the IMC. Barcelona is an entirely new chip basically. I expect it to come out in July at the reported perf levels.

 

[chunkymonster]

for the record, I've been saying it for 9 months now, the sooner AMD comes clean, the faster we move on. AMD will never be a 1st rate chipmaker. It was fun while it lasted
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bB5B0F162-C06A-476E-8516-FBE5F8DCC32E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

Oh puh-leez! The linked article says absolutely nothing about AMD's fabrication process and is really about...

Intel Corp. (INTC : Intel Corporation) was upgraded to buy from neutral at Goldman Sachs...

Given there is no specific verbiage identifying AMD's fabs, only an allusion to AMD's move to an "outsourced model", tying that back to their Fabs is pure speculation and market talk. From all the news that read, including the transcript to the 4/19 1Q AMD conference call, the idea of outsourcing is a run-on from talk of an "asset light model". Exactly what an "asset light model" is has been the fodder of speculation and assumption since, so take it for what it's worth.

Not only that, wasn't there a big stink last year about AMD opening up a new fab in the Luther Forest Technology Park in Saratoga County in upstate New York. As well as all the hype over AMD converting Fab30 to 300mm and renaming it Fab38. Along with a significant long term investment in all the Dresden Fabs?

All things considered, it seems to me that AMD is committed to their Fabs with their fab process being right in line with their processor roadmap and long term plans to synergize technology from the ATI merger.

 

[petevsdrm]

Yeah people will read something and take it all out of context and flip out about it. Ask a Jehova's witness sometime.

BTW chunky I am dying laughing at turpit's quote in your sig. :lol:

 

[bixplus]

Barcelona is an entirely new chip basically. I expect it to come out in July at the reported perf levels.

So you expect it to suck too?

 

[mcain591]

Yeah, that Opteron is a piece of crap that should never have been released. Damn them.

Anyway, it says that IF AMD does that it will benefit Intel. Besides, why would they scrap two Fabs that are just ramping?

Opty's are crap? Right.... And what happened to your undying love of AMD, huh baron?

 

[BaronMatrix]

Yeah, that Opteron is a piece of crap that should never have been released. Damn them.

Anyway, it says that IF AMD does that it will benefit Intel. Besides, why would they scrap two Fabs that are just ramping?

Opty's are crap? Right.... And what happened to your undying love of AMD, huh baron?

Never heard of sarcasm huhn?

 

[Wisecracker]

for the record, I've been saying it for 9 months now, the sooner AMD comes clean, the faster we move on. AMD will never be a 1st rate chipmaker. It was fun while it lasted
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bB5B0F162-C06A-476E-8516-FBE5F8DCC32E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

Company shows interest in opening more factories during briefing on $3.2B chip fab proposal

Friday, May 4, 2007
SARATOGA SPRINGS -- Company executives for Advanced Micro Devices Inc. meeting in the Spa City to discuss the $3.2 billion computer chip factory planned for Malta announced Thursday that the company may be interested in opening a second, or perhaps third, factory in the Luther Forest Technology Campus.

However, even under the best-case scenario, the first shovel wouldn't hit the ground -- at the very earliest -- until spring 2008.... Including tax breaks and infrastructure improvements, the state's package for AMD totals $1.2 billion.

 

[liquidx]

I have to admit, this is the first I have even heard speculation of AMD going fabless. And I call it exactly that, speculation. While I have read various stories about AMD redoing fabs, and looking to open more. So if they really had plans to do that, then why go fabless?

Also, what people have to remember is that computers as a whole are still a new technology, I have been into them since before the x86 days, not seriously into them until the 386 days but still. And I have watched AMD go from a completely unheard of company to a name synonymous with Intel. Now they also held the performance crown from the time pc's hit 1 ghz up until the core architecture actually hit the stores. Saying their 15 mins of fame is up is about the most stupid thing I have read on all of the threads. And to be honest, I pray to God that AMD doesn't start believing that because if they end up dying, we ALL pay. And big, there would be absolutely nothing to stop intel from charging $2000 for a new proc, and if you want a new computer, you will pay it. Even if Barcelona and Griffin don't deliver C2D killing performance, if they can match clock for clock, that's a step up, and if later revs can beat the C2D's then great. Or even the next gen of procs after that. As long as they have a competitive product then we all win.

 

[exit2dos]

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't one of the conditions of AMD's x86 license is that they can't outsource more than 20%?