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Odd Build.. Please Help

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June 19, 2007 5:07:46 AM

Hey there, I've been looking at building a super-cheap PC for my girlfriend, so she can play the Sims 2 on it with all of her expansions and whatnot...

That being said, this is what I've come up with:
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price

Update
Rosewill R330-P-BK Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: R330-P-BK
Item #: N82E16811147077

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$22.99 -$5.00 Instant $17.99

Update
BIOSTAR NF520-A2 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 520 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: NF520-A2
Item #: N82E16813138077

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$49.99 $49.99

Update
ASUS EAX300SE-X/TD/128 Radeon X300SE 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #: EAX300SE-X/TD/128M
Item #: N82E16814121538

Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

In Stock
$35.99 $35.99

Update
FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX400-PN, RoHS, 12cm FAN, version 2.2, 2 SATA, 20+ 4 pin, PCI Express, 400W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: AX400-PN
Item #: N82E16817104953

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$43.99 -$4.00 Instant $39.99

Update
AMD Sempron 64 3000+ Manila 1.6GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model SDA3000CNBOX - Retail
Model #: SDA3000CNBOX
Item #: N82E16819104305

Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy

In Stock
$28.99 $28.99

Update
G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model F2-6400PHU1-1GBNR - Retail
Model #: F2-6400PHU1-1GBNR
Item #: N82E16820231085

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$44.99 $44.99

Update
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD800JD
Item #: N82E16822135106

Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

In Stock
$41.99 $41.99

Update
Microsoft Comfort Curve Black USB Wired Ergonomics Keyboard 2000 - Retail
Model #: B2L-00002
Item #: N82E16823109149

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$14.99 -$2.00 Instant $12.99

Update
Microsoft N71-00007S Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Wheel Mouse - OEM
Model #: N71-00007S
Item #: N82E16826105026

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$9.99 $9.99

Update
SONY Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615/B2s - OEM
Model #: DDU1615/B2s
Item #: N82E16827101131

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$17.99 $17.99
Subtotal: $300.90

I don't need to hear about how crappy things are in it, I just need to know if it will work, if the PSU is enough to power it, and if I've left anything out. The only game she plays on computer is the Sims 2.

Out of curiosity if you'd like to comment on whether or not you think it would run any other games, that'd be nice too.

The way I look at it, it's a cheap computer to get her started, and has room to expand easily..

Thanks in advance for any help (=

More about : odd build

June 19, 2007 10:47:53 AM

get a slightly better GPU. a x300SE is Shit beyond belife, i proberly wont run Sims 1 seriously. get a 7300LE or 8500, but not the x300SE
June 19, 2007 1:09:46 PM

Quote:
get a slightly better GPU. a x300SE is **** beyond belife, i proberly wont run Sims 1 seriously. get a 7300LE or 8500, but not the x300SE


Actually I had a friend tell me the same thing last night, so I went out and found this: 7300LE

Just like you suggested, and only added $9.00 to the end price, which is perfect.

So given that... what do you think? Sims 2, yes. As well as the potential to upgrade later on?

Does anyone think it'll play any other games... Wow, WC3, maybe Titan Quest? Just curious ^_^ it'd be a cheap way to get myself into a new machine, and then I could just upgrade at my leisure.
Related resources
June 19, 2007 1:47:56 PM

It'll definitely play WoW and w3. i would have went with a processor with more cache like the athlon 64 3200. but i think you should be fine. just some food for thought.
June 19, 2007 2:09:22 PM

Quote:
It'll definitely play WoW and w3. i would have went with a processor with more cache like the athlon 64 3200. but i think you should be fine. just some food for thought.


Thanks, I'll look into that. My biggest thing with this build was low cost, because like I said, it's for my girlfriend. I figure I'll get her to play Wow with me, just as soon as I'm able to play again. (Bad internet here for online play).

At any rate, I was wondering, just in general, what a higher cache will do for a processor? I'm really new at all this and still learning.

I think for her purposes if she just went with that she could upgrade it at her leisure (with my help of course) and not have any problems playing her Sims 2 game with all its fancy expansions.

Thanks again though for the input :D 
June 19, 2007 2:13:49 PM

Newegg had a Foxconn MB w/6150 and A64 3400+ (939) for $89 recently.
June 19, 2007 3:36:26 PM

the higher cache usually improves video encoding although in games the improvements can be between 0%-20% on intels. on an amd i would suspect the same if not more improvements because of the integrated memory controller. im not entirely sure of this but just extrapolating from graphs between higher and lower cache intel and amd procs.

EDIT:
I didn't see the previous post. I think that deal is great because of the integrated video solution. it should be able to run wow and sims 2 (probably not seasons however). if you think its a little weak you can go for a dedicated graphics solution however it should lower ur cost initially by going integrated. note that nvidia's integrated solutions are superior to intel's integrated.
June 19, 2007 5:51:09 PM

Quote:
the higher cache usually improves video encoding although in games the improvements can be between 0%-20% on intels. on an amd i would suspect the same if not more improvements because of the integrated memory controller. im not entirely sure of this but just extrapolating from graphs between higher and lower cache intel and amd procs.

EDIT:
I didn't see the previous post. I think that deal is great because of the integrated video solution. it should be able to run wow and sims 2 (probably not seasons however). if you think its a little weak you can go for a dedicated graphics solution however it should lower ur cost initially by going integrated. note that nvidia's integrated solutions are superior to intel's integrated.


Thanks for the info about cache size :D 

As for the integrated option, she does play Sims 2 + Seasons, + about 5 other smaller expansions, so I'm thinking she'll need a dedicated card.

Nobody has mentioned the PSU... does that mean it should be sufficient?
June 19, 2007 5:54:06 PM

yeah most builds in this range only really use 200-300 watts max so you should be fine for now and the future.
June 19, 2007 6:15:13 PM

Quote:
yeah most builds in this range only really use 200-300 watts max so you should be fine for now and the future.


Thanks, I was wondering about that.

Edit:
I was also wondering about something else... that motherboard is has two SATA 3.0Gb/s slots on it... and the CD drive I've chosen is IDE... I don't know enough about all these new types to know if it will work or not...

Also I'll be using Windows XP, and I've heard that their may not be driver support for the SATA drives? I'm not sure how that all works out, but I want to make sure that when I put everything together it'll all go according to plan, if you know what I mean.

Some more advice would be great on those things please :D 
June 19, 2007 6:48:59 PM

Windows XP supports SATA drives just fine (I have 4) it doesn't really matter if your CD/DVD drive is PATA or SATA. I would use a PATA CD/DVD drive to leave more room for future hard drive expansions.
June 19, 2007 6:51:22 PM

Quote:
Windows XP supports SATA drives just fine (I have 4) it doesn't really matter if your CD/DVD drive is PATA or SATA. I would use a PATA CD/DVD drive to leave more room for future hard drive expansions.


Thanks (=

I was worried there for a moment.
a b B Homebuilt system
June 19, 2007 6:52:57 PM

A SATA optical drive will work with a new system and works faster than IDE. It costs a little bit more, but not much. I used one on a AM2 system. Make sure you install the Nvidia drivers if applicable.
If you have only two SATA ports it is wise to leave one unoccupied for a eSATA external hard drive for backing up for example. Most motherboards today have more than two SATA ports.
June 19, 2007 6:53:54 PM

Quote:

Update
Microsoft Comfort Curve Black USB Wired Ergonomics Keyboard 2000 - Retail
Model #: B2L-00002
Item #: N82E16823109149

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

In Stock
$14.99 -$2.00 Instant $12.99

Just a quick FYI, this keyboard has a shorter cable than usual. I got one and depending on your/her desk, it might be too short. You might want to double check the cable length and get an extension if necessary.
Its supposedly 60inches = 5ft, but there's a +/- 6inches. I must have gotten the -6 inches... :?
http://download.microsoft.com/download/b/8/c/b8c64804-1...
June 19, 2007 6:57:04 PM

Quote:
A SATA optical drive will work with a new system and works faster than IDE. It costs a little bit more, but not much. I used one on a AM2 system. Make sure you install the Nvidia drivers if applicable.
If you have only two SATA ports it is wise to leave one unoccupied for a eSATA external hard drive for backing up for example. Most motherboards today have more than two SATA ports.


Thanks, but I don't need the hard-drive expandability with this model, it's for my girlfriend's sims and I don't think they'll need 80gb... if she ends up doing more with pictures or something in the future we can always set her up with a nice external drive, and that way she'll be able to take it places, and use it on her laptop as well.

The motherboard I chose, due to being on a super-low budget, only has 2 SATA ports.

Thanks for the comment :D 

As for the comment about the keyboard, I'll certainly take that into consideration, although given the price, I'd much rather rearrange my desk space than find a different keyboard. (And hope for the +6, ha ha)
June 19, 2007 7:22:32 PM

or you can spend the extra 10 dollars and get a flashy wireless keyboard and mouse set up.
June 19, 2007 9:48:22 PM

semprons are horrid due to the small cache. Get the cheapest possible A64, and buy 2 stix of identical ram, rather than just one. extra cost is minimal
June 19, 2007 10:18:42 PM

Quote:
or you can spend the extra 10 dollars and get a flashy wireless keyboard and mouse set up.


Sorry, but I can't stand wireless peripherals, cost isn't even the biggest deal with that.

Quote:
semprons are horrid due to the small cache. Get the cheapest possible A64, and buy 2 stix of identical ram, rather than just one. extra cost is minimal


I'll look into that... it'd have to be really cheap to make it fit into my plans. Any recommendations?
June 19, 2007 10:58:44 PM

Try this Athlon:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The Athlon64 3200+, (Orleans core) has double amount of cache comparing to the Sempron and is only for 55$ at the egg....

Yes it is almost double compared to what you were thinking, but it is sooo worth it :p 

Regarding Ram, does your motherboard have 2 or 4 memory slots?
If 4 then since you will go with 1Gb, go with the 2 sticks. If only 2 then since you are thinking of upgrading maybe you should consider keeping that one stick... after all it's not like your girlfriend is going to play Oblivion at ful res... :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
June 20, 2007 2:28:59 AM

Quote:
Try this Athlon:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The Athlon64 3200+, (Orleans core) has double amount of cache comparing to the Sempron and is only for 55$ at the egg....

Yes it is almost double compared to what you were thinking, but it is sooo worth it :p 

Regarding Ram, does your motherboard have 2 or 4 memory slots?
If 4 then since you will go with 1Gb, go with the 2 sticks. If only 2 then since you are thinking of upgrading maybe you should consider keeping that one stick... after all it's not like your girlfriend is going to play Oblivion at ful res... :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


Thanks for that :D  The processor looks nice, and for the $25 extra could possibly be fit in there. I'm starting to see what you guys mean about cache and things like that, just from reading more and whatnot. As for the motherboard... it has 4 slots, so I can see going with 2x 512MB (if that's what you were getting at) even though it seemed like the 1x 1GB was about the same price. As for her not playing Oblivion on full res, that's definitely true, but she might play it on low. She likes to play games I'm interested in, even if they're not her "cup of tea".

Quote:
according to this

http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/amd_sempron_am2/

AM2 semprons do have dual channel memory controllers! I think that makes a bigger difference than the cache.

If I was buying, I'd get these for $35:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or these (for $2 less than what you picked btw):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Thanks for the reply (=

The corsair you showed isn't PC2 6400, it's 4200, which may not make a huge difference, but I was hoping for 6400 because I figured it was better. The A-DATA looks nice... what would be the benefits of going with two sticks of 512 over 1 stick of 1024?

Quote:
note if you buy this combo you can squeeze in dual core for only 10 bucks more!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

not bad for $93 hmm I might pick one up myself heh


I like the idea for that deal, but I don't like the fact that the processor doesn't come with a HSF, also, are the AMD dual cores overclockable like the intels are? I'm for sure going to keep that in mind either way, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can :D 

Quote:
You might look at the Antec B stock offerings: http://www.antec.com/us/pro_b_stock.php
The NSK 4400 includes a power supply for $45.95. I don't know what the shipping cost would be.
Consider the merits of spending a few extra bucks and building a system around something cute like this apevia x-qpack: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Only question with the NSK 4400 is if the PSU would be enough to power everything and/or if I'd just end up replacing it anyway... The way I figure it now that PSU I've selected should last a while, even if the PC gets upgraded a bit in the future.

As for the X-qpack, I really REALLY don't like mini-atx and small PC's in general... yes they're cute, and she might like the idea of one... but that's why she doesn't need to see it ^_^ (Ha ha, just kidding, she's not worried about how it looks, she just wants to play the sims... if we had more money I'd go with something more flashy or 'cute' for her).

~~~

I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who's been posting, all the advice has been awesome.
June 20, 2007 3:04:38 AM

the main advantage in using two sticks of memory instead of one is that it will allow you to run dual channel mode which increases speed. the new brisbane processors of amd can overclock up to about 2.8 ghz. however, this doesn't really hold a candle to an intel (conroe) machine that can reach speeds in excess of 3.5ghz (parts that might be out of your price range and intended use).
June 20, 2007 5:47:49 PM

Quote:
the main advantage in using two sticks of memory instead of one is that it will allow you to run dual channel mode which increases speed. the new brisbane processors of amd can overclock up to about 2.8 ghz. however, this doesn't really hold a candle to an intel (conroe) machine that can reach speeds in excess of 3.5ghz (parts that might be out of your price range and intended use).


Thanks for the info about the memory, and I think you're right about those CPU's being out of my price range... but I do appreciate the info, as I'm looking to be able to over-clock at sometime in the future.
June 20, 2007 5:50:54 PM

Dual channel does increase speed, but its typically under 10% in real world applications. Since this is a low-end build, I would really weigh the price/benefit ratio. If you can get 2x512MB for the same price as 1x1GB, then i'd say go for it. If not, then forget it and upgrade to 2x1GB later on when you need it. Of course, you need to make sure that the chipset/motherboard and CPU(for amds) are dual-channel capable.

Also note that overclocking supposedly voids your warranties and decreases the life of your CPU. This warning isn't to deter you from trying but just to inform you if you didn't already know. It sounds like you don't want to or can't pour a ton of $ into this, so I wouldn't want it to go *pop* and die on you.
June 20, 2007 5:59:10 PM

Quote:
Dual channel does increase speed, but its typically under 10% in real world applications. Since this is a low-end build, I would really weigh the price/benefit ratio. If you can get 2x512MB for the same price as 1x1GB, then i'd say go for it. If not, then forget it and upgrade to 2x1GB later on when you need it. Of course, you need to make sure that the chipset/motherboard and CPU(for amds) are dual-channel capable.

Also note that overclocking supposedly voids your warranties and decreases the life of your CPU. This warning isn't to deter you from trying but just to inform you if you didn't already know. It sounds like you don't want to or can't pour a ton of $ into this, so I wouldn't want it to go *pop* and die on you.


Hmm, given that information... how does one figure out if the motherboard and processor support dual channel? Here's the link to the motherboard I've chosen, and here's the link to the processor I've been told that due to its low cache size (L2 I'm guessing) it won't necessarily be the best choice... Any thoughts on that?

As for voiding the warranty by overclocking, I understand that and wouldn't be doing it right away... I'm thinking months down the road when I can afford a nice E6400 or something, which I've read overclocks rather nicely.

My biggest issue with this current build is cost, keeping it low, and getting a machine that is functional. The secondary issue is an upgrade path, which the AM2 socket allows for, and also with 4 slots for memory it's pretty well set there as well.

Can you think of a better video card than this? It's a 7300LE 256MB GDDR2 PCI-E x16 card for 44.99... considering all my girlfriend will do on this is play the Sims 2 (With all the expansions) do you think that's over-kill?

Also, if I was going to build a cheap-o computer like this for myself (so I could upgrade later on).. Do you think it'd be enough to play Oblivion on Low settings, or maybe the new C&C game that's out, or AoE 3... I really like RTS titles. The only other newer game I've been looking at is Battle for Middle Earth 2 (Also RTS) and Titan Quest (Not even that new really).

Thanks as always for the help I've been getting, I know this thread is dragging on and on, but I've been learning a ton and am enjoying this thoroughly.
June 20, 2007 6:29:06 PM

Quote:

Hmm, given that information... how does one figure out if the motherboard and processor support dual channel?

Under Specifications on the mboard page, it says "Dual Channel Supported" and it says YES, so thats good. :p 

The processor is another story... harder to find. Ok, so we know that DDR2 memory is 64 bits wide, so if we can find something that says the sempron's memory controller is 128 bit, we know its dual channel (or if it just says dual channel that works too) :wink:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
From the horse's mouth - it says 128 bit wide, so AM2 semprons are dual channel.

With the onslaught of conroe, AMD's been reducing the size of their L2. This is speculation, but its probably to boost CPU yields by decreasing the die size. They say its cuz they don't need that much cache, due to the integrated memory controller, but that's a debate for another thread. In the end, its not that much of a difference (if any).
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q3/athlon64-3500/inde...
This review is for some Athlon 939's, but I think its still relevant due to the cache comparison.

Quote:

As for voiding the warranty by overclocking, I understand that and wouldn't be doing it right away... I'm thinking months down the road when I can afford a nice E6400 or something, which I've read overclocks rather nicely.

If you're thinking about going to a E6400, you might want to invest in an Intel upgrade path for you.

Sorry on the video card, I haven't kept up recently so I'm not up to date on which would be the best one to get for $50.
Its Sims 2... pretty low reqs:
http://thesims2.ea.com/help/detail.php?help_id=21

For games, the video card matters the most. Its typically the video card that will determine what settings you play what game. So if you got a E6400, then get a good video card for oblivion, etc. Its more often than not a video card bottleneck than a CPU bottleneck. (That's why a junky celeron can keep up with a E6400 in high res game benchmarks).
June 20, 2007 7:08:59 PM

Quote:

Hmm, given that information... how does one figure out if the motherboard and processor support dual channel?

Under Specifications on the mboard page, it says "Dual Channel Supported" and it says YES, so thats good. :p 

The processor is another story... harder to find. Ok, so we know that DDR2 memory is 64 bits wide, so if we can find something that says the sempron's memory controller is 128 bit, we know its dual channel (or if it just says dual channel that works too) :wink:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
From the horse's mouth - it says 128 bit wide, so AM2 semprons are dual channel.

With the onslaught of conroe, AMD's been reducing the size of their L2. This is speculation, but its probably to boost CPU yields by decreasing the die size. They say its cuz they don't need that much cache, due to the integrated memory controller, but that's a debate for another thread. In the end, its not that much of a difference (if any).
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q3/athlon64-3500/inde...
This review is for some Athlon 939's, but I think its still relevant due to the cache comparison.

Quote:

As for voiding the warranty by overclocking, I understand that and wouldn't be doing it right away... I'm thinking months down the road when I can afford a nice E6400 or something, which I've read overclocks rather nicely.

If you're thinking about going to a E6400, you might want to invest in an Intel upgrade path for you.

Sorry on the video card, I haven't kept up recently so I'm not up to date on which would be the best one to get for $50.
Its Sims 2... pretty low reqs:
http://thesims2.ea.com/help/detail.php?help_id=21

For games, the video card matters the most. Its typically the video card that will determine what settings you play what game. So if you got a E6400, then get a good video card for oblivion, etc. Its more often than not a video card bottleneck than a CPU bottleneck. (That's why a junky celeron can keep up with a E6400 in high res game benchmarks).

Glad to know they support dual channel... thank you :D  Out of curiosity... how would that work if I wanted to get 4x 512MB sticks... or would I at that point just be better off going 2x 1GB?

Thanks for the article on the processors, it helped.

As for OC'ing an E6400, I could do the same with AMD I think? I've just heard more about it being done with the intels... if it's easier to do with the intel I'd probably jump camps and go with that, although the main reason I chose AMD at this point is low cost.

With that info about the video card, I know the sims don't require much, but I'd rather over compensate than not have enough.

I think I'm going to go look into some Intel boards and CPU's, maybe find a cheap set up that will be similar to what I've currently chosen... I'm thinking LGA775 is the best route to take... is that right? That seems to be what all the c2d's are anyway.

Thanks again for all the help.
June 20, 2007 7:42:23 PM

Quote:

Glad to know they support dual channel... thank you :D  Out of curiosity... how would that work if I wanted to get 4x 512MB sticks... or would I at that point just be better off going 2x 1GB?

Dual channel needs pairs of sticks. So you can run dual channel with 2 or 4 sticks. It should default to single channel if 1 or 3 sticks are present. For dual, you need to insert the sticks into the specified slots - read the motherboard manual. 4x512MB is ok, but if you're overclocking it could limit your overclock a little. 2x1GB is better since you then have 2 open slots for more if you need it. But really, price is the factor here, on this computer, you're not going to be running big stuff, so I'd say 2GB max on this build. Also note that you need similar RAM - same speed, timings, and density. They sell matched pairs, so that's always good. You can take your chances and do single sticks as well.

Quote:

As for OC'ing an E6400, I could do the same with AMD I think? I've just heard more about it being done with the intels... if it's easier to do with the intel I'd probably jump camps and go with that, although the main reason I chose AMD at this point is low cost.

You can overclock an AMD too, but conroe chips outrun the AMD chips at stock speeds and conroes overclock alot better than AMD chips. Its easier to do w/ intel mainly because there's alot of headroom in the E6400. once you start hitting the ceiling on frequency, it gets harder to eek out that overclock.

Quote:

With that info about the video card, I know the sims don't require much, but I'd rather over compensate than not have enough.
I'd do the same. :) 

Quote:

I think I'm going to go look into some Intel boards and CPU's, maybe find a cheap set up that will be similar to what I've currently chosen... I'm thinking LGA775 is the best route to take... is that right? That seems to be what all the c2d's are anyway.

Yeah, 775 is the way to go for intel. Its a good upgrade path right now. cuz kentsfields are 775 as well, so you have a quad upgrade option later. I'd aim for a 775 board that can take a pentium d, core 2 duo, and core 2 quads. that would be the ideal upgrade path right now for intels. But if you do try that, let's open a different thread. It'll just get complicated if we do 2 builds in this one.
June 20, 2007 10:07:15 PM

Quote:

shadowmaster625 wrote:

note if you buy this combo you can squeeze in dual core for only 10 bucks more!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

not bad for $93 hmm I might pick one up myself heh


I like the idea for that deal, but I don't like the fact that the processor doesn't come with a HSF, also, are the AMD dual cores overclockable like the intels are? I'm for sure going to keep that in mind either way, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can


There is another combo with the retail version of the processor for $12 more. That is a great deal. You can find it by following the link above and clicking on "View all 5 combos" under the combo you see.
a b B Homebuilt system
June 20, 2007 10:29:56 PM

Quote:
There is another combo with the retail version of the processor for $12 more. That is a great deal. You can find it by following the link above and clicking on "View all 5 combos" under the combo you see.

You could always get a cheap aftermarket cooler for less than the difference between retail and OEM CPU. Many are as good or better than stock coolers anyway.
!