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Raptor or Raptor X, Help Please

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June 19, 2007 5:38:05 PM

Okay, silly question, or maybe I haven’t done enough reading, can someone tell me what the difference is between these two models of Raptors, and I don’t mean just an X or H/D in the name (For all the funny people)

Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFDRTL 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150

Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFDRTL 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150

More about : raptor raptor

June 19, 2007 6:08:58 PM

Raptor X has a clear window on top to let you see the internal parts. Some cases even have spots for the Raptor X so you can see it from the outside.
June 19, 2007 6:11:59 PM

Come on, you have to be kidding, is that it, someone would actually pay extra for a window on a harddrive. Okay, a window on a car, a house, even a window seat on a train or airplane, but paying extra for a window on a harddrive, tell me it isn’t the only reason, please! :o 
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June 19, 2007 6:18:29 PM

Lol, yep he's right, the window on top is the only difference.

Amazing how many of those that they have actually sold. :wink:
June 19, 2007 6:27:17 PM

Would we kid you? Really, the window is there so you can see what's inside. Before you install the drive, that is, because once installed, who can see it? And yes, that little piece of plastic is the only difference that $50 buys you. Amazing isn't it, how many fools will pay $50 for something that makes no difference in performance and can't be seen or anything else?
a b G Storage
June 19, 2007 6:41:53 PM

Not only that. The window make the drive more fragile and if you break the window you could be responsible for the cost of the new drive.
June 19, 2007 6:45:57 PM

Not that I treat my hard drives so roughly that I might break the window, but that is something to think about. The last drive I had which failed miserably was taken to a rifle range for some target practice. I don't think the company was going to warrenty it after that either.
June 19, 2007 6:48:44 PM

Okay, I am convinced now that the PC market has now become so user friendly that not only do the people who should not own PCs now own PCs, and you know who I am talking about, but I believe these same people are now building there own PCs now too. Now wonder we have Geek Squad and suck around. Well, my congratulations on WD since they cashed in on this craze!!!!
June 19, 2007 6:51:00 PM

My Thanks for the insight, I was starting to think it was just me.... Wait, maybe it is just me. I have an ideal, perhaps I should go and see if I can sell the idea of a see through CPU to AMD, who knows, they may be open to the concept!
June 19, 2007 6:56:02 PM

Quote:
My Thanks for the insight, I was starting to think it was just me.... Wait, maybe it is just me. I have an ideal, perhaps I should go and see if I can sell the idea of a see through CPU to AMD, who knows, they may be open to the concept!


Please!! There are enough delays from AMD as it is! Do you want them to go through even more developement, delay, excuses, more delay, etc while they try to incorperate such a thing? 8O
June 19, 2007 6:59:12 PM

Quote:
My Thanks for the insight, I was starting to think it was just me.... Wait, maybe it is just me. I have an ideal, perhaps I should go and see if I can sell the idea of a see through CPU to AMD, who knows, they may be open to the concept!


Please!! There are enough delays from AMD as it is! Do you want them to go through even more developement, delay, excuses, more delay, etc while they try to incorperate such a thing? 8O
:D  LMAO :D 
June 19, 2007 7:06:30 PM

Quote:
Would we kid you? Really, the window is there so you can see what's inside. Before you install the drive, that is, because once installed, who can see it? And yes, that little piece of plastic is the only difference that $50 buys you. Amazing isn't it, how many fools will pay $50 for something that makes no difference in performance and can't be seen or anything else?

Clearly Sailer is underestimating the important role the e-penis plays in a true geek's life.

I personally feel its all rather silly, but I also think that about a $5000 gaming rig... and people still buy those!
June 19, 2007 7:11:11 PM

Are you saying I should go and get my money back from Dell for the new water cooled system I bought from them......

Okay, just kidding :D  .

Not to get off subject but if game systems now adays can cost up to 1000.00, than a solid gaming PC could certinaly fund 1500-2000. I don't know about 5000.00, I mean can see how someone could spend that much, i just don't know why.
June 19, 2007 7:22:55 PM

Quote:
Not to get off subject but if game systems now adays can cost up to 1000.00, than a solid gaming PC could certinaly fund 1500-2000. I don't know about 5000.00, I mean can see how someone could spend that much, i just don't know why.


Well, spending $5000 for a gaming computer is easy. First, you buy it instead of build it yourself. Then you indulge yourself in a bunch of hardware that will be obsolete in 6 months so that for a few days you can get really great scores in 3DMark06. Then someone else's machine with newer hardware will beat yours. Of course, there is the thrill of having that super system.

Of course, for those who really have a lot of money that they don't need, they can buy the best of the line from Falcon Northwest and then kiss off $10,000 or more. And again, in 6 months or so it will be obsolete. But think of the nice case they have!
June 19, 2007 7:38:58 PM

But for a few days I could be #1. (NOT)

Hum, lets consider this, 5000 = 7days fun. $715 a day, to have fun, lets see after taxes must be like 1125 a day.

Okay, who ever has that kind of money to through away I have one thing to say,

I live at XXXXXXX please send the next computer my way
June 19, 2007 7:44:24 PM

Quote:
Would we kid you? Really, the window is there so you can see what's inside. Before you install the drive, that is, because once installed, who can see it? And yes, that little piece of plastic is the only difference that $50 buys you. Amazing isn't it, how many fools will pay $50 for something that makes no difference in performance and can't be seen or anything else?

Clearly Sailer is underestimating the important role the e-penis plays in a true geek's life.

Ah gee, I realize that I have some deficiencies in my computer's, ah, shall we say attachments? But I'm working on it, I mean on my computer. I even bought a new keyboard today. :)  Some day I might even update the cpu and motherboard.
June 29, 2007 6:27:21 PM

I have a Raptor X myself....and for the 15-20 dollars extra, or whatever it is I say it is worth it. The glass is not flimsy at all, youre not going to break it. It looks very cool in my XCLIO A380 Case....you can see the spindle searching for information thru the side window. Why not get it? It's a cool thing to show the friends. I have also heard that the Raptor X generally has better sectors than the normal Raptor 150....my friend told me this not sure if its true, but just some speculation for you. I am very pleased with it....no matter which one you buy you will be happy.
June 29, 2007 6:37:01 PM

Quote:
I have also heard that the Raptor X generally has better sectors than the normal Raptor 150....my friend told me this not sure if its true, but just some speculation for you. I am very pleased with it....no matter which one you buy you will be happy.


The better sectors and some other things were speculations that were false. The hard discs are the same internally. But if you can actually see the inside of the Raptor and its spinning around when you've got it in the case and you enjoy it, then good. I just know that if it was in any of the cases of my computers, I couldn't see it at all, so there would be no point in the clear side.
June 29, 2007 7:09:20 PM

Just get the Raptor X It will be the same price after you enter the promo code and save $10.00. Enjoy I love my two raptor's.


http://promotions.newegg.com/neemail/May-0-2007/SE-Prom...




Motherboard: EVGA T1 680i
CPU: E6600 L646G494 @ 3.7Ghz. 1:1 Ratio Linked & Synced Voltage 1.44 Load Temp 45c
Idle Temp. 25c
SPP:1.45volts, MCP: 1.50volts
Memory: Mushkin PC2 8000 2gig's 4-5-4-11, 2T Voltage 2.1
Swiftech Water Cooling H20-220
Video: One EVGA 8800GTS 320MB
Power Supply: Silverstone 750W
OS: XP Pro
June 29, 2007 7:26:26 PM

thanks for the info......I dont see why you wouldnt get one....the prices are so close. And if you ever decide to upgrade to a case with a window then you will be happy.
June 29, 2007 7:31:40 PM

I'm pretty sure you need to be signed up for the promotional email to use the codes they provide. I tried one once (before I signed up) and it didn't work. They keep track of which logins were sent the promotion.
June 29, 2007 8:37:34 PM

Quote:
Would we kid you? Really, the window is there so you can see what's inside. Before you install the drive, that is, because once installed, who can see it? And yes, that little piece of plastic is the only difference that $50 buys you. Amazing isn't it, how many fools will pay $50 for something that makes no difference in performance and can't be seen or anything else?


I seem to remember that there are other differences between the two drives WRT RAID. I think the non-X drives are preferred for arrays.
June 29, 2007 10:38:10 PM

I had heard that too, and I thought it was interesting that the non X drives were better. Yet as I read various reviews, they all seemed to agree that there was no real difference beyond the clear side. I just checked the Western Digital site and could find no substantive difference between the two drives, other than the clear cover on the X drive.

That said, if speed4life is correct and the drives are now the same price, due to discounting or whatever, than I can't see any reason to not buy a X version.
June 29, 2007 11:22:59 PM

Some people pay extra to have a side window in their case, and then more 'extra' to have noisy fans with little led's, just to look 'cool'. If the idiots are willing to cough up the extra for a piece of plastic instead of a metal case, well... Its their money.
June 30, 2007 3:23:41 AM

Quote:
I had heard that too, and I thought it was interesting that the non X drives were better. Yet as I read various reviews, they all seemed to agree that there was no real difference beyond the clear side. I just checked the Western Digital site and could find no substantive difference between the two drives, other than the clear cover on the X drive.


From Newegg, about the X:

Crystalline polycarbonate lens - Provides clarity, structural integrity, electrostatic discharge (ESD) protection, durability and chemical neutrality necessary for the highest performance and reliability.
Native Command Queuing (NCQ) - Increases data transfer in high-performance multi-processor, multi-threaded environments.
Rotary Acceleration Feed Forward (RAFF ) - Optimizes operation and performance when drives are used in vibration-prone multi-drive systems. Patent pending.

Also from Newegg, about the ADFDRTL:

Reliable - Designed and manufactured to enterprise-class standards to provide enterprise reliability in high duty cycle environments. With 1,200,000 hours MTBF, these drives have the highest available reliability rating on a high capacity drive.
RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER) - A feature unique to WD, prevents drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives.
Rotary Acceleration Feed Forward (RAFF) - Optimizes operation and performance when the drives are used in vibration-prone, multidrive systems such as rack-mounted servers or network storage.

--------------------

Not sure if the X really doesn't have TLER. I don't see a comparison of the two 150s on the WD site.
June 30, 2007 3:58:38 AM

It took me a bit to open two windows side by side and get both the Raptors up. Under specifications, they are identical. The only shown difference is that the X has Native Command Queing while the plain Raptor has TLER.

From Tom's story on the Raptor X (Feb 6, 2006) on page one, "If you consider the clear cover an unnecessary gadget you may go for the ordinary WD1500AD Raptor (without the X). Technically, it isn't even different fron the Raptor X, making it the more attractive choice for users that prefer a lower price to a fancy cover".

From page five, "It is no coincidence that the technical data of the WD1500AD Raptor and the Raptor X resemble each other. As a matter of fact, the top cover is the only real difference between both models, giving WD quite a bit of flexibility in producing either to meet demand".

On page six, a technical data sheet shows both models having Native Command Queing and all other data points being identical.

Knowing that all this may not answer the ultimate questions, its my opinion that the main differences between the two drives is a clear cover and some advertising. As for myself, I have the plain version and its worked fine for me so far.
June 30, 2007 7:01:10 PM

Quote:
It took me a bit to open two windows side by side and get both the Raptors up. Under specifications, they are identical. The only shown difference is that the X has Native Command Queing while the plain Raptor has TLER.


Yea, and if that's correct, then the two are different. If the Tom's article is wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
July 1, 2007 8:22:57 AM

Hey, getting a 5000+ dollar gaming rig is easy. Remember, some people can easily afford 5000+ computers. In short, there are people out there that make a lot of money and don't care how much they spend.
July 1, 2007 8:37:47 AM

Huh??? and this relates to raptor x's vs raptors how?
July 1, 2007 1:38:54 PM

Quote:
Hey, getting a 5000+ dollar gaming rig is easy. Remember, some people can easily afford 5000+ computers. In short, there are people out there that make a lot of money and don't care how much they spend.


If you have the money, getting a $5000 computer is easy, just call Alienware, Falcon Northwest, or someone else. Hey, a person can even spend $10,000 if they want. I could myself, but I prefer to build one myself and save money, while at the same time improving my knowledge of computers.

But like Croc said, what's this got to do with Raptors and Raptor X's? Unless you're planning to fill the computer with Raptors, which you didn't stae.
July 1, 2007 2:51:33 PM

Quote:
It took me a bit to open two windows side by side and get both the Raptors up. Under specifications, they are identical. The only shown difference is that the X has Native Command Queing while the plain Raptor has TLER.


Yea, and if that's correct, then the two are different. If the Tom's article is wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

I tried Anandtech for more information. Apparently, Anandtech tested only the ADHD model and noted the coming X model. As he states, "The buffer size had been doubles to 16 MB, matching the latest offerings from the other drive manufacturers. The Marvel 88i8030 PATA to SATA bridge chip used on the previous two Raptors has been finally dropped in favor of a native SATA implementation. This native SATA implementation brings with it Native Command Queing instead of the legacy firmware level Tagged Command Queing." Further down, he states "this drive supports Time Limited Error Recovery and Rotary Acceleration Forward Feed operations".

So at least from what he wrote, the driver supports both TLER and Native Command Queing, as well as RAFF, with the difference of this drive being separated from older 150 MB drives by the 16 mb buffer vs the older 8 mb buffer and by using a native SATA implementation instead of the Marvel PATA to SATA bridge chip.

Interestingly, on the Final Words page, the reviewer said the NCQ was not an advantage, writing, "We did witness performance decreases of up to 9% with NCQ activated. At this time we recommend turning off NCQ if this drive is to be utilized in a single-user environment".

So, from what I understand from Anandtech, the newer 1500 ADHD model has a 16 mn buffer instead of 8 mb on the older model, has both NCQ and TLER, and worse, using the NCQ actually slows performance down. Maybe Tom's was right in their article stating that the drives were basically identical, other than the clear cover. Then again, maybe both Tom's and Anandtech have it wrong. I don't know for sure. Confusion reigns and possibly Western Digital itself is responsible for the confusion.

The only thing I know for sure is that I have the newer model, the 1500 ADHD with the 16 mb buffer and that it performs well so far.
July 1, 2007 4:26:39 PM

man- some of you broke a$$ people are real downers. I recently built a new box and while I spent a few bucks im by no means rich- it only cost me maybe another 25$ to get that clear case-clear psu case and other pretty stuff- the raptor x was 50 more at the time so i passed on that but if it was a short 20spot---who cares, novelty can make it fun....it doesn't have to be brige box ugliness.......it is still a hobby you know.
Just like building RC cars ya you can get a cheap shitbox and make it to the races but if you are into it you can build a trick rig.

my 2 cents

Enjoy the fourth all
July 1, 2007 4:59:55 PM

In the end, without any real difference in performance, I decided just to buy the X! Main reason, I spend more on coffee at starbucks in one trip than it cost me to enlarge my ePenis! How can I not buy the X Raptor! :D 
July 1, 2007 5:28:02 PM

Basically the features of the raptor x over the standard raptor are the following:

Increased noise
Increased heat
Decreased lifespan(by about half)
A window that you probably can't see in your case anyway and even if you could it'd get old real quick

At only $50 more it's a bargain.
July 1, 2007 5:42:42 PM

Quote:
Basically the features of the raptor x over the standard raptor are the following:

Increased noise
Increased heat
Decreased lifespan(by about half)
A window that you probably can't see in your case anyway and even if you could it'd get old real quick

At only $50 more it's a bargain.


:cry:  :cry:  :cry: 

That is a sad thought, I would have figured, given the thermal properties of the difference mediums, glass vs metal, that the heat would not be exaggerated externally to the drive (i.e. radiated outward) ... As for noise, given the sound coming off of my two 750Gig Seagate’s I think it will be pretty minimal (I hope), not to mention this thing sits at my feet and I really don’t hear anything anyway. Lifespan isn't a big issue given the warranty overall with the raptors, I figure no matter which one I bought it will fail on the first day after the five year warranty. In the end, as it was all the same price anyway, I figured what the heck, it can't hurt.... (or can it) :twisted:
July 1, 2007 6:11:00 PM

Quote:
Huh??? and this relates to raptor x's vs raptors how?


Sorry, I forgot to quote the string of posts that can be summed up as "What kind of idiot would pay 5000 dollars for a gaming rig?" Which was derived from the monetary difference between the Raptor and the Raptor X. I simply supplied the obvious answer, rich people, that's who would pay extra. People who have enough money to not care or compromise.
July 1, 2007 7:59:57 PM

Quote:
man- some of you broke a$$ people are real downers. I recently built a new box and while I spent a few bucks im by no means rich- it only cost me maybe another 25$ to get that clear case-clear psu case and other pretty stuff- the raptor x was 50 more at the time so i passed on that but if it was a short 20spot---who cares, novelty can make it fun....it doesn't have to be brige box ugliness.......it is still a hobby you know.
Just like building RC cars ya you can get a cheap shitbox and make it to the races but if you are into it you can build a trick rig.

my 2 cents

Enjoy the fourth all


Now who are calling "broke a$$ people"? I can't speak about anyone else here, but I can afford to write a check for any computer that Falcon Northwest or the other botique builders make. I just prefer not to waste money on things that I don't feel make any difference in performance. That's my choice. If you desire to add lights, clear windowed hard drives, fancy paint jobs or whatever, than thats your choice.

Clue69less and I were discussing facts about the Raptor X and the plain Raptor, not trying to be a downer against those who might want to buy the Raptor X. Now, if you have anything intelligent to say concerning the performance differences of the two drives, say it and provide a source to back your opinions. Then you will have contributed something usefull, rather than just some hot air.

That's my 2 cents worth.
July 1, 2007 8:11:50 PM

Interesting, very interesting.....

So, how do you really feel :wink:
July 1, 2007 8:36:58 PM

Quote:
Interesting, very interesting.....

So, how do you really feel :wink:


I feel like getting a cold beer and relaxing a bit. :) 
July 1, 2007 9:24:32 PM

Quote:
Would we kid you? Really, the window is there so you can see what's inside. Before you install the drive, that is, because once installed, who can see it? And yes, that little piece of plastic is the only difference that $50 buys you. Amazing isn't it, how many fools will pay $50 for something that makes no difference in performance and can't be seen or anything else?


50 bucks for a window on your harddrive.

Another $20 a gig so Crucial's "Ballistics" memory can have flashing LEDs when under load...

"You can fool all of the people some of the time...
and some of the people all the time...
...and those are damn good odds!"


PT Barnum
July 2, 2007 1:27:14 AM

Quote:
man- some of you broke a$$ people are real downers. I recently built a new box and while I spent a few bucks im by no means rich- it only cost me maybe another 25$ to get that clear case-clear psu case and other pretty stuff- the raptor x was 50 more at the time so i passed on that but if it was a short 20spot---who cares, novelty can make it fun....it doesn't have to be brige box ugliness.......it is still a hobby you know.
Just like building RC cars ya you can get a cheap shitbox and make it to the races but if you are into it you can build a trick rig.

my 2 cents

Enjoy the fourth all


I don't have the slightest idea why you sprayed all the BS in reply to me but you're the downer, dude.
a b G Storage
July 2, 2007 2:08:22 AM

That "cheap plastic" you call it took them 2 years to develop.

Quote:
For two years in WD's advanced development labs, located in California, this team of engineers painstakingly and scientifically analyzed the hundreds of considerations necessary to make a hard drive with a view, and ensuring the result was worthy of the WD Raptor nameplate magnified the task at hand.

* Transparent Lens: Finding a material that would withstand heat, pressure from 10,000 RPM turbulence and electrostatic discharge (ESD); provide a crystal-clear, unobstructed view of the disk and head assembly; and maintain high-volume manufacturability was a monumental challenge. WD finally settled on a special grade of crystalline polycarbonate and shaped the lens in a way that would maximize viewing area, structural rigidity and aesthetics. The team used laser Doppler vibrometers to determine optimal lens placement, while maintaining overall drive integrity. A unique ESD-dissipative coating, when used with the conductive frame, redirects an unwanted ESD charge out of harm's way, protecting the read/write heads from potentially damaging zaps of static discharge. The lens is attached to the cover with a foam adhesive, chosen for its gap-filling and sealing capabilities.

* Conductive Frame: The laminated frame that surrounds the lens must have conductive properties to enable an ESD charge to move through it, using it as a bridge between the surfaces it spans. The coated window lens and the cover are tied electrically through strategically placed bare-metal surfaces on the cover, thus creating a conductive unit. Conductivity in the frame is achieved with injection of microscopic carbon nanotubes into the frame adhesive. All this ensures that a wandering ESD charge built from you shuffling your feet across the carpet doesn't destroy the critical data, content and software you rely on WD Raptor X to protect.


On another note, if the Raptor is for the users who want the best, then
why it it still running on the old SATA150 interface instead of the SATA 3G?
July 2, 2007 3:00:24 AM

One of the reasons barcelona has been delayed so much is because they're developing a version with a window integrated onto the IHS. This will allow the more hardcore among us a chance to see the actual electrons in motion, at least until the HSF is installed. Only 150 extra. Not a bad bargain.
July 2, 2007 6:55:41 AM

Quote:
That "cheap plastic" you call it took them 2 years to develop.


Could you please point out where I used the above phrase?

I don't mind being quoted, but please don't mis-quote me.
July 2, 2007 1:40:39 PM

Quote:
On another note, if the Raptor is for the users who want the best, then why it it still running on the old SATA150 interface instead of the SATA 3G?


Go do some homework on HD specs. SATA150 has plenty of bandwidth for the Raptor. SATA3 is like the typical high-school boy, ready to go but nobody to fool around with.
July 2, 2007 1:55:44 PM

Quote:
One of the reasons barcelona has been delayed so much is because they're developing a version with a window integrated onto the IHS. This will allow the more hardcore among us a chance to see the actual electrons in motion, at least until the HSF is installed. Only 150 extra. Not a bad bargain.


Oh please, do not even think about such things, much less write about them. Why would you want to give AMD yet another excuse for delay of its products? Ideas like this might keep us waiting for Barcelona, et all, until 2009.
July 2, 2007 9:03:23 PM

Quote:
One of the reasons barcelona has been delayed so much is because they're developing a version with a window integrated onto the IHS. This will allow the more hardcore among us a chance to see the actual electrons in motion, at least until the HSF is installed. Only 150 extra. Not a bad bargain.


Oh please, do not even think about such things, much less write about them. Why would you want to give AMD yet another excuse for delay of its products? Ideas like this might keep us waiting for Barcelona, et all, until 2009.

You mean it will be out before 2009? :lol: 
!