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EXCHANGE 7600GS for a x800GTO (advice needed)

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June 20, 2007 1:07:00 AM

hi all....first let me thank everybody in advance for their help.
Well my situ. as is follows.
I have the chance to exchange my 7600GS (PCI-E) + $25 for a x800GTO (PCI-E)(unlocked to a x800XT).
is this a worth will upgrade. what kind of FPS gains am I looking at?
I read that the x800 doesnt have Shader Model 3....will this be a problem.?
and the x800GTO on offer has an additional power connector (the normal one doesnt) I have a no name 450W PSU and dont have $$$$ to go for a new PSU...so will my PSU be enough??

or should I sell off my 7600GS( for $120) add the extra 25$$ and go for a 7600GT ??

info- I game at 1280*1024
:D  plz....all advice is appreciated. :D 

(ps- prices look odd cos I live in a small island in Asia)

current specs- pentium D (2.66 ocd to 3.2)
1Gb 667 DDR2 RAM
320GB Hitachi SATA
1 DVD ROM
1 CD Writer
1 TV tuner card
June 20, 2007 6:41:33 AM

if you plan to play alan wake, unreal2k7 or crysis stay with the 7600GS and OC it, the xx00 along with 9x00 and 5xx0 line of DX9 cards will not run on these engines, due to lack of SM3.
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 8:18:32 AM

Quote:
if you plan to play alan wake, unreal2k7 or crysis stay with the 7600GS and OC it, the xx00 along with 9x00 and 5xx0 line of DX9 cards will not run on these engines, due to lack of SM3.




UT3 (no longer UT2K7), straight from lead Dev Tim Sweeny;We also support Shader Model 2.0 hardware with minimal visual difference.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=602522

Crysis, from the Crysis-online site confirmed specs; A graphics card that supports Shader Model 2 or higher is required.
http://www.crysis-online.com/Information/System%20Requi...

As for Alan Wake, do you have something more than your guesses to back that up or are you once again just making things up as you go along?

Seriously Dude stop posting, you don't know WTF you're talking about.
Related resources
June 20, 2007 10:01:31 AM

I wouldn't swap the 7600GS for an x800GTO. I think performance will be similar. You will probably notice more difference by selling the GS for $120 (if you can) and paying the extra $25 for a new 7600GT.
June 20, 2007 11:52:03 AM

Quote:
I wouldn't swap the 7600GS for an x800GTO. I think performance will be similar. You will probably notice more difference by selling the GS for $120 (if you can) and paying the extra $25 for a new 7600GT.


thanks....but this x800GTO is bios flashed and so 16 pipes are there...so it is giving x800XT level performance...... I wouldn't have swapped the 7600GS for a plain x800GTO, but the whole "unlocked pipes" and "XT level performance" is making me unsure......... any ideas?? what if it has XT level performance??? will it still be a BAD idea??
June 20, 2007 12:25:05 PM

I think, don't do it. You'd be better off saving some money (or selling your current card) and just buying a new card. Less risk that way, and you get the satisfaction of being the only person to have used it.
June 20, 2007 12:30:23 PM

Quote:
I think, don't do it. You'd be better off saving some money (or selling your current card) and just buying a new card. Less risk that way, and you get the satisfaction of being the only person to have used it.


yep thats another factor...my current card has 2 years warranty left while the one I am thinking about doesnt have any warranty......
June 20, 2007 1:42:16 PM

ok so they got around to adding SM2 path, they did not intend it, but i still would not get an SM2 card, lack of features, also yes watch the intel 2006 IDF conferance where they talk about alan wake, it mentions support for SM3 and SM4 only, when mention is made of the inter intergrated. Also do not tell me to shut up, i will post the honest truth on here, and if you dont like my opion you can go cry to a mod or your mother, because your opion means less to me than the floater i left in the toliet last night
June 20, 2007 2:06:45 PM

Quote:
ok so they got around to adding SM2 path, they did not intend it, but i still would not get an SM2 card, lack of features, also yes watch the intel 2006 IDF conferance where they talk about alan wake, it mentions support for SM3 and SM4 only, when mention is made of the inter intergrated. Also do not tell me to shut up, i will post the honest truth on here, and if you dont like my opion you can go cry to a mod or your mother, because your opion means less to me than the floater i left in the toliet last night


is this correct??
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA5LDMsLGhlbnR...
Quote:

So what is the real bottom line here about SM3.0 and the rather misplaced NVIDIA comparisons that have been made public so far? If you are using an older graphics card not capable of supporting SM2.0, like any pre-GeForceFX NVIDIA or pre-Radeon 9500 graphics card, you are going to be in for an upgrade soon if you want to see all the eyecandy in the newest games. If your current video card will support SM2.0, like NVIDIA's GeForceFX or the ATI’s Radeon 9500 series and "better," currently nothing in terms of Shader Model quality is going to be revealed with an upgrade. Of course all this forgoes talking about better AntiAliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, and higher resolutions that play a huge role in gameplay.
June 20, 2007 2:46:05 PM

that was relavant for 2004, alot has changed, the x800 line of cards today is lacking, Take rainbox 6 vegas, it requires Shader Model 3, not 2, but 3. This trend will continue, and those r400 based cards will slowly but surely become more worthless as time goes on.
a c 130 U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 2:52:47 PM

To answer your question rather than go off on a tangent with another poster i would put the 25 bucks towards the 7600gt its a solid sm3 card and wont have a prob running on your psu.
The x800gto has no warranty has been modded and is last gen.
Yes it will eat the 7600gt alive as far as frame rates go but given a choice of a new card that is not exactly slow with a warranty or a secondhand one that could go bang at any min its got to be the new one.
By the way im not saying the x800gto wont run on your psu but i would be worried about it if it was me.
June 20, 2007 3:04:28 PM

thanx machtronix......

I mainly play COH and Total War games.... are these SM3 ???
with my 7600GS currently I am getting aout 4500 on 3DMark 05.....arnt these a bit too low???
this is what made me consider the x800GTO
June 20, 2007 3:36:33 PM

yeah sorry bout that. I just realized that you live in a place far far away :oops: 
well in that case i would recomment the 7600gt over the X800 ... I hear the 7600gt is pretty close to performance with the 7900gs so for an extra $25 bones it'll be a decent upgrade.
a c 130 U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 3:52:21 PM

The 3dmark score really matters very little at the end of the day. Can you play it properly ie does it lag /get jittery in game play.
If the card you have is playing games fine then the 7600gt will only be an improvement.
As to your question im not 100% but from a quick skim of the web i think the games you mentioned are sm2 but im not 100% sure.
The gto couldnt really be considered as an upgrade like i said fps yes but for me the cons outway the pros.
The gt will be slightly better than the gs.
If you was talking about buying one(gt) full price then i would say no dont bother the diff isnt worth it but for 25 bucks i would go for it.
June 20, 2007 3:54:52 PM

First off, SM3.0 shouldn't be part of the equation when talking about a 7600GS. By going to the unlocked GTO you'd be gaining some performance while losing a feature (SM3.0) the 7600GS was too weak to fully utilize anyway. IMO, anything less than a 7600GT isn't worth getting just for SM3.0. That being said, I agree with what some others have said. Save your money and upgrade to something a bit more worth while.
June 20, 2007 4:10:51 PM

Quote:
The 3dmark score really matters very little at the end of the day. Can you play it properly ie does it lag /get jittery in game play.
If the card you have is playing games fine then the 7600gt will only be an improvement.
.


I do understand that 3DMark is somewhat out of touch with real life performance...but still it is something??? isnt it??
Last time I ran it I got 4207 (3DMark 05)....I have seen people getting close to 7000 on 3DMark using a 7600GS......what is it that I am doing wrong, that I am more than 40% below????
:?
June 20, 2007 4:37:32 PM

Quote:
ok so they got around to adding SM2 path, they did not intend it, but i still would not get an SM2 card, lack of features, also yes watch the intel 2006 IDF conferance where they talk about alan wake, it mentions support for SM3 and SM4 only, when mention is made of the inter intergrated. Also do not tell me to shut up, i will post the honest truth on here, and if you dont like my opion you can go cry to a mod or your mother, because your opion means less to me than the floater i left in the toliet last night



Grapeape knows more than you.


Now please do us all a favor and /uninstall. Kthnx :D 
a c 130 U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 4:51:29 PM

Depends on the rest of your setup could be that your cpu is holding the score back post your full system specs then we can get some idea.
June 20, 2007 5:28:29 PM

Quote:
Depends on the rest of your setup could be that your cpu is holding the score back post your full system specs then we can get some idea.


thanks for the help...here are the full specs

processor PentiumD 805 2.66 Overclocked to 3.2GHz
RAM 1GB 1 stick Kingston Value RAM DDR2 667MHz 5-5-5-15
VGA MSI 7600GS (440/880 core/memory)
Mobo ASUS P5LD2 VM-SE
storage SATA 7200rpm 80GB Hitachi Deskter
and PATA 40GB Maxtor
a c 130 U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 7:10:07 PM

I see nothing wrong wth your system and this is where 3dmark comes up a bit short as a benching tool.
Unless you are comparing exactly the same system there are a lot of variables to take into account.
Different processors/ram/mobo
Background apps would make a difference as well,also other people may be submitting scores where they havent mentioned any overclocking.
This is why i dont really take much notice of it for comparosons.
I do use it but only to gague the improvements to my owm system.
Just thought also if you are running the free test without registering then there are tests you dont get to do, which would obviously affect your score as well.
Like i said dont get hung up on 3dmark scores as you know they do not represent real life.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 7:31:41 PM

Quote:
ok so they got around to adding SM2 path, they did not intend it,


BS! Show me where either Crytek or Epic said they didn't intend a PS2.0 path. Epic mentioned the SM2.0 path abck in the X800 GF6800 generation when the talked about the different 24bit and 32bit path for the Unreal Engine 3. Crytek mentioned their expectations of playing minimum settings on a top of the line rig from 3 years ago with the X800 and GF6800 and single core procs as their minimum target. So show me where they said they weren't going to support SM2.0 from the start. Tim Sweeny said he would rather NOT have to support legacy products (including DX9, XP and 32bit VISTA) but he never said he wouldn't support them.

Quote:
but i still would not get an SM2 card, lack of features,


That's a different statement than making up games that don't support them (heck there's enough SM3.0 minimum games out there already for you to not have to make stuff up). I agree with mactronix about getting the SM3.0 and have recommended GF7600s over X800s for about a year due to the move towards SM3.0, but the difference is I base it on supportable reasons, not made up ones like you have.

Quote:
also yes watch the intel 2006 IDF conferance where they talk about alan wake, it mentions support for SM3 and SM4 only, when mention is made of the inter intergrated.


Post a link. Only mentioning SM3 and SM4 support is different than saying it doesn't support SM2. Talking up features isn't the same as saying others aren't supported. Valve didn't talk much about DX7 support, but it was there in HL2.

Quote:
Also do not tell me to shut up, i will post the honest truth on here,


When you do post some truth for a change then I'll refrain from telling you to STFU with your BS. Sofar you haven't done the former so I don't see myself doing the latter.

Quote:
and if you dont like my opion you can go cry to a mod or your mother, because your opion means less to me than the floater i left in the toliet last night


That's fine, because I'll continue to tell you to stop posting BS as long as you keep posting lies and FUD that you pull out of that same toilet, and if you want to go cry to momma about it, then you go do that.
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 7:40:40 PM

Quote:

I do understand that 3DMark is somewhat out of touch with real life performance...but still it is something??? isnt it??
Last time I ran it I got 4207 (3DMark 05)....I have seen people getting close to 7000 on 3DMark using a 7600GS......what is it that I am doing wrong, that I am more than 40% below????
:?


The GF7600GS can vary a bit from model to model. The GF7600GS can come with DDR-II or GDDR3, and from there you can also volt mod the heck out of it and make it a super GS. Which wold take it well beyond what your card is capable of.

Xbit has a bunch of looks at the volt-moding;
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce7...

But at the very least you're likley seeing the GDDR3 models of the GS like the Gainward in those 3Dmark scores you're looking at, which helps in a card that is very memory bandwidth limited. the GS is very overclockable, but that DDR-II memory really holds it back.

From the options you listed selling the GS and getting a GF7600GT is the most attractive, however if you're in the US and can get that price for your GF7600GS, then I'd say roll that money into a GF7900GS or X1950Pro on NewEgg (like Glupee posted) and go that route, much better all around, and don't worry about bottlenecks the performance will be there when really neeeded (when the stress is on the graphics).
a c 130 U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 7:49:22 PM

Good call ape i totally forgot about the memory diff that would explain a lot of it.
Classic example of why you should wait about and get as many replys as poss before making up your mind.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
June 20, 2007 8:05:51 PM

Yep, and I'm glad I read your reply above (about the 'tangent'), because it reminded me that I was so focused on correcting SOI's BS/FUD that I forgot to mention anything about the OP's options/dilemma.

Thanks for reminding me. D'oh! :oops: 
June 20, 2007 8:07:15 PM

Come on??! From a 7600GS to 7600GT?!? They are the same cards, excluding the clocks. And the Gs is a far better overclocker... 7900GS or 1950Pro are your choices. They perform equaly, overclocked or not.
!