Is it worth spending the extra on a P35 board?

Brevik

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Question is in the title, I'm looking at getting an e4300 and 2Gb of RAM (OcUK have a special on Geil ram this week) as the basis for a new budget gaming PC, and I'm very undecided about what motherboard to get.

I'm a total newbie to overclocking - so I'd like something that keeps that side of things simple and my total budget is £450 (not including GPU which I already have). Having just received my annual bonus, I'm now ready to order stuff!

Mobos I have been considering are:

Abit FP-IN9 - not sure if I'll ever use SLi, but I've heard (rightly or wrongly) that it makes overclocking easy
Gigabyte 965 thingy
Asus P5B
Gigabyte P35C
Asus P5K

2 years ago I built an AMD PC with an A8N-SLi mobo, Athlon 64 3000 and 1Gb RAM and the only thing I've upgraded is the graphics card. Based on that experience, I'm more likely to go for a complete overhaul in 2 years time, rather than upgrade (maybe get a better processor, or GPU, in a years time, but spending comparable money as I will be now, if that makes sense).

So I'm trying to work out if shelling out the extra for a P35 motherboard makes sense or not...

What do you guys reckon?
 

BUFF

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wouldn't get an FP-IN9 SLI for easy overclocking as with current BIOS it isn't (easy).
AB9 QuadGT is though & I rate the 965 chipset over the 650i.
Or the new IP35 series is getting very positive feedback in th eforums.
 

mrmez

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Ive seen no performance increase in 35 over 965.
Id stay with a good proven 965 borad. DDR3 is a ripoff atm, super expensive and not worth the marginal increase.

Id get a P35 12-18 months from now
 

IcY18

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If he gets a P35 now he's guaranteed support from Intel's 45nm and longer support than a P965 board. He doesn't have to get a DDR3 board, he can get the one i said earlier and it only costs slightly more than the 965 counterpart.

Also in 12-18 months the P35 is most likely going to be looking to get replaced by a newer enhusiast chipset, most likely one that supports intel's Nehalem CPU with an integrated memory controller.
 

shooter124

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yeah u can get a p35 ds3r for 129 usd, might as well get it... getting the 965 is like buying a 2007 car when you can get a 2008 for the same price or a couple bucks more, makes no sense.
 

Brevik

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Great, thanks guys, so which P35 board? I'd like to purchase from yoyotech here in the UK (as they seem to be a pretty decent bunch when I popped into their store), but they don't sell any Gigabyte boards - is the Abit IP35 a good enough substitute or should I look at purchasing a Gigabyte P35-DSR from elsewhere?

While I'm asking questions, any memory recommendations (particularly what to avoid) to go with a P35 board?
 

BUFF

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abit IP35 Pro is getting very good user feedback across the forums but it's maybe a bit more than you want to spend (£120).
The IP35 is about £90 & the IP35-E about £70 but I haven't seen much feedback on those 2 yet.
 

Zorg

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Ive seen no performance increase in 35 over 965.
Id stay with a good proven 965 borad. DDR3 is a ripoff atm, super expensive and not worth the marginal increase.

Id get a P35 12-18 months from now
I can't believe you said that. Maybe you should look at this review, then you won't say that anymore. This is a post pulled from another thread.
... See how the C2Ds overclock easier, see the increase in DDR2 speed with the Bearlake chipset and read the conclusions. ...
All of the CPUs listed above in our table are 1066 FSB processors, but all ran fine at 1333 FSB at default multiplier and default voltage. Of course this is the FSB frequency Intel will be introducing on their soon-to-be-announced processors. This little side effect will make the P35 with DDR2 a favorite overclockers' board with current Intel Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad processors. A $189 E6420 can perform even better than an E6700 just by selecting a 1333 bus on P35 and leaving everything else at default. Likewise, a $500 Q6600 will outperform the ~$1000 QX6700 with just a bus speed change.

It is a noteworthy advantage with the P35 chipset motherboards that every Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad processor we tested on the P35 boards ran at 1333 FSB speeds at the stock multiplier without the need to increase voltage. This is a significant, free, and pain-free overclock provided courtesy of the new 1333 bus speed option. The only exception to this was our top-line X6800 which did require a mild voltage boost to run at 333x11 (3.67GHz).

P965 brought very minor changes, mainly in the straps and overclocking ability of the memory. The NVIDIA 680i/670/650 actually shows decreased buffered bandwidth, but unbuffered bandwidth is about the same as P965.

While the purpose of this review was to compare DDR3 and DDR2 performance, something completely different emerged from the memory bandwidth tests. Namely, the memory controller on the P35 is definitely an improvement over the P965 memory controller. This is evident whether the P35 is running DDR2 or DDR3 memory.

Conclusion

The purpose of this comparison of DDR3 and DDR2 was to determine whether DDR3 really brought any better performance to the Core 2 platform. However, the test was designed so that any performance improvements that were brought by the new P35 (Bearlake) chipset would be captured and could be isolated. P35 supports either DDR2 or DDR3, and we found no real difference in current performance of DDR2 and DDR3 on the P35 platform. Both were equally faster than the same DDR2 on the P965 chipset.

That means the real performance surprise in these tests is that the revised memory controller in the Bearlake chipset improves buffered memory bandwidth by 16% to 18%, with a real-world improvement in gaming and application performance of 2 to 5%. This is a pretty impressive improvement for a memory controller update. To repeat an old saying please remember that memory is just one small part of the system, so a 2% to 5% increase in gaming from the memory controller alone means the P35 memory controller is significantly improved over the P965 chipset.

DDR3 at introduction is saddled with pretty dismal memory timings. As you can see in our test bed chart, SPD timings are 6-6-6-15 at DDR3-800, 7-7-7-20 at DDR3-1066 and 9-9-9-25 at DDR3-1333. Despite the slower timings DDR3 runs at higher speeds than any DDR2 we have tested, and we will have official JEDEC timings for DDR3 to 1600 with the current JEDEC standard, and possibly ever faster with any future JEDEC update.

Even at slow timings, DDR3 shows a great deal of promise. It is as fast as very fast DDR2 on the P965, but it can't match the same DDR2 memory performance on the P35. DDR3 can run at higher speeds than DDR2 and as faster memory timings inevitably appear DDR3 will be the right choice for computer enthusiasts looking for the best performance. While we can't prove better latency or significantly better performance with the slow timings of launch DDR3, the evidence is all there in these tests. DDR3 will get faster in speed and will provide the best performance in the long term.

That brings up the more difficult question: what to buy today? That is a much more complicated question. If you are looking for a new system, definitely choose the new P35 chipset over the P965, as it is a better memory performer. At launch we are told DDR3 will be much more expensive than DDR2. Prices are expected to be about $480 for a 2GB DDR3 kit. At that lofty price it is difficult to recommend DDR3 over DDR2, when DDR2 performs just the same on the P35 chipset and decent 2GB kits can be had for under $150 now.

Two conditions would shift the recommendation to DDR3 instead. When DDR3 prices come close to DDR2 then buy DDR3 instead. More significantly, when DDR3 becomes available at higher speeds and/or faster timings then definitely choose DDR3 if you are looking for performance - even if the price is higher.

We asked many memory vendors when they thought price parity and fast DDR3 timings might be available. The more skeptical said not until late 2008, while the more optimistic felt it would happen by the end of 2007. Until either or both events happens there is no compelling reason to buy DDR3. However, there is no doubt at all that DDR3 is in your future as the top-performing memory you can buy. Some will also buy it because it is the future and they can likely carry their DDR3 supporting board a little further into the future.

AMD's launch of their Phenom processors will also be something to consider for it's potential impact on DDR3 adoption. Phenom will initially launch with DDR2 only. If AMD can regain the performance crown, the shift to DDR3 may be further delayed, just like what happened with the DDR to DDR2 shift.

The winner for now is the P35 chipset, whether you feed it DDR2 with fast timings or higher speed DDR3. The 1333 bus speed introduced by P35 is also a winner - at least in terms of overclocking. As stated in the review, almost every Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad we tried in the P35 ASUS P5K and P5K3 ran at 1333 FSB at the default multiplier and default voltage. The only processors that required any voltage increase were the top line Core 2 Extreme processors. This free 25% overclock, which still allows everything else in the system to run at default values, is exciting. It is so exciting we have to wonder how long Intel will allow this in the marketplace.
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=4[/quote]
 

david1981

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Its definitely worth getting a p35 board. I bought the gigabyte p35_ds4 for about £100 on scan.co.uk and it is a excellent board. I was a total newbie to overclocking as well but I got my e6600 up to 3.4ghz with no effort at all.
Set the voltages to auto and have pc6400 RAM so was a breeze. I have read reviews/forums where people have managed to overclock on these boards to arround the 500fsb mark.
This is the board,
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=598573

and a link overclocking forum,
http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/196999-giga-p35-ds4-overclock-tests.html

PS - press crtl + f1 in BIOS main screen to access advanced memory options,
Had me stuck for a whole morning :lol: