Go with X2 5600+ or E 6420? - AMD fanboy prespective

[Jay_85]

I currently have a
Pentium D 805 processor
Gigabyte 945-GM-S2 mATX motherboard (supports all Core 2 Duo models except Quad-Core & the new 45 nm Penyrn & only supports DDR 2 667MHz RAM not DDR2 800)

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2331&ModelName=GA-945GM-S2

2 GB DDR2 667 MHz RAM (1 GB x2 sticks in dual channel)
7300GT Graphics Card with 256 MB DDR3 mem. (performance on par with a 7600GS with DDR2 mem. According to 3D Mark 06 benchmark)
2 HDD’s 320 GB Seagate, 160 GB WD. (both S-ATA)
1 DVD ROM, 1 CD-RW/DVD ROM. (both IDE)

Here’s the 2 option’s for my upgrade –
Option 1
Get a Core 2 Duo E 6420 Processor – it cost’s Rs. 8,500 here. (I’m in India (Mumbai[Bombay])
And maybe add in a DVD-RW drive (S-ATA) Asus DRW-1814BLT – cost’s Rs.2,400.
So the total cost comes out to be Rs. 10,900

Option 2
AMD Athlon64 X2 5600+ Processor – Rs. 9,300 (Yeah for some weird reason AMD is over priced compared to the Core 2 Duo! It’s been like that for like forever….I asked the dealer if the price expected to come down & he said it’s gonna come down (I feel it’s give or take…90 % chance, your never sure of these things) within a week or two so I’m assuming it will be say Rs. 8,900 maybe.

Or opt for a AMD Athlon64 X2 5200+ cost’s Rs.9,000 now…personally I feel it makes absolutely no sense in going with this Rs.300 difference is nothing to me. So forget it.

I will have to get a new motherboard if I go the AMD route so the motherboard I’ll be going with is
Jetway M2A692-GDG it has a AMD 690G chipset – costs Rs,3,250 (this mobo doesn’t have any PCI-e 1x slot but I don’t need it…I have a PCI SB Live 24-Bit sound card & I’m happy with it)

Here’s the review of this motherboard –
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/jetway/M2A692-GDG/g1.htm

So the total cost of the AMD rig comes out to be – Rs.12,550 (5600+ processor & Jetway mobo.)

Let’s start off first with the benchmarks for the processor’s
http://www.hardware.info/en-UK/productdb/bGRkZZiVmJjK/viewproduct/Intel_Core_2_Duo_E6420/

http://www.hardware.info/en-UK/productdb/bGRkZZiWmJHK/viewproduct/AMD_Athlon_64_X2_5600/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/dualcore-roundup_8.html#sect0

So as you can see the 5600+ is mostly better..though negligible compared to the E6420 but it’s over priced here!

I use my computer for casual gaming, mostly for downloading, movies, music…but gaming is the main priority to consider.

I plan on going with a HD 2600 XT or Pro graphics card in the future (I’m a mainstream/low-end sorta gamer not high-end).

I have no intentions on overclocking but since the Jetway mobo. supports overclocking according to the review (my current mobo. doesn’t) could I push the 5600+ to 6000+ speeds with a stock heatsink & DDR2 667MHz RAM? (I’ve never overclocked so I have no idea on how to go about it).

If I go with the AMD config….I wouldn’t be able to get a DVD-RW drive coz I will have to spend that money for it’s motherboard (I don’t need a DVD-Writer mostly….I added it to the Core 2 Duo config just like that)

Okay so taking these things into consideration all fingers point to Core 2 Duo but here is the thing…

My current processor Pentium D 805 will be lying around so in the future (say in a month or two) I’ll get a motherboard for it & use it in my office or somewhere else…
Taking this into account the price of the Core 2 Duo rig with DVD Writer & a cheap motherboard for D 805 comes too – Rs. 13,700 (this cheap motherboard will be for roughly Rs.2,600 – Rs.2,800 give or take)

Now If I go the AMD route & take the future into consideration (not really the future I’ll buy all the parts together for this rig)
I’ll add a DVD-RW drive to the AMD system so the cost will come up to
Rs.14,950 (the price of the DVD-Writer may come down if I wait but I’m taking the current price in the equation that is Rs.2,400)

Another benefit I “may” get with the AMD rig is apparently there are rumors that Phenom (Barcelona) chips will be compatible with current AM2 boards only the HT will be downgraded.

If this turns out to be true this makes my mobo more future proof…it’s not that I intend to keep this Jetway mobo forever…it’s I won’t have any stuff lying around…coz say I get the Barcelona chip & put it in this Jetway mobo. & after a while I get the new chipset based mobo. (790G chipset) so I don’t have any left overs of any sort.

You could argue that….hey you can do the same for the Core 2 rig you could get a G33/G35 chipset in the future over there as well but it’s almost certain for me that I won’t be getting the Penyrn processor (if my next new rig will be Intel again I’ll go with whatever comes after Penyrn)

Bear in mind that I will be using DDR2 667 MHz RAM…not DDR2 800 so will I expect any bottlenecks with AMD or Intel processors? (one will perform better than the other? Or it wouldn’t really matter?)

I have the money to go with either AMD or Intel (so money is not a concern) …my birthday comes on 3rd July so I plan on having either of these two rigs ready by next Saturday.

Thing is I always buy stuff which gives me the best bang for my buck.

So the mind says go with Intel but heart says go with AMD (being the AMD/ATI fanboy I am! lol)

What do y’all suggest then? Stop being delusional & go with Intel or go with AMD(listen to your heart).

Thanks for the help.

 

[Jay_85]

Another thing I’m thinking off is the extra L2 cache on the Core 2 Duo's...
It doesn’t seem to matter in the current line of games according to the benchmarks but will it play a part in the upcoming games? (Crysis etc.)

If L2 cache doesn’t really matter…I could go with a X2 5400+ (it’s not available right now but might be in a week’s time it will should be priced between Rs.9,000 – Rs.9,500)

Would I be able overclock the X2 5400+ on stock heatsink (since it’s 65nm) with this Jetway mobo to 6000+ speeds?

thx.

 

[elbert]

Forget both CPU's for gaming the GPU is king. The GPU is more important than both your cpu and memory. Back not to long ago THG did a benchmark of a low end X2 3800+, 1GB of RAM, and a 8800GTX. At and above 1280X1024 this low end system beat a E6600, 2GB's of RAM, and a 8800GTS. Im not putting Intel down here just stating the fact the GPU is the most important.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_marathon/page11.html
While that link graphics breaks at 1600X1200 this link of the next page shows the low end system pulling ahead at 1280X960.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_marathon/page12.html

Lot of things are changing in the mobo's like AM2+ and x38 so its a bad time to buy a high cost mobo with little gain.

 

[justjc]

I agree with Elbert, this is a time for waiting.

For the AMD side there is the AM2+ platform, that is on the way, and the fact that the prices will drop on the 9th of july.

For the Intel side there is a price drop on the 22. of july and only the new chipset with ensured compatibility with the 45 nm CPU(BTW. I belive Penryn is a mobile chip)

About the graphics, you have in mind, they are also not quite available yet.

But if you want something new now, then please let us know what it is you want your machine to do better, so we can help you to find the waek link that will give the best improvement.

 

[elbert]

I would suggest a 8800gts 320 because from what ive seen the 8600's and 2600's only compete in around a 7900gs. Not a big deal faster that what you have. Any dual core is fine for gaming for atleast a year. Supreme commander benchmarks ive seen comparing C2D v/s C2Q gives a good 30~40% fps increase. The same benchmarks showed an OC'ed C2D at 3.5GHz that couldnt make up the fps of a Q6700. The 3rd graph down tells the whole story.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/660-3/supreme-commander-benchmark.html

Heres the biggest GPU benchmark review ive seen.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2007/test_nvidia_geforce_8600_gts_sli_8600_gt/10/

What im suggesting is buy a good GPU now and next year build a cheap quad core system and migrate your GPU.

 

[Jay_85]

Hey thanks so much for the response

Well I know about the upcoming price drops but the thing is I’m in India not US so the price drop will at least take a month to happen over here…I could maybe wait till 10–15th of July if y’all insist(but nothing beats getting new stuff for ur b’day does it lol).

The Jetway mobo. which I’ve selected is the cheapest around & none match up to it’s features (overclocking etc.)

Yup I’m a mid-range guy so at max. I will be getting either a 2600XT or 8600 GT/GTS or 8800 GTS(only 15% chance of getting this card) I could maybe even go lower say 2400Pro depends on it's cost .

The resolution at which I intend to game on for upcoming games & current crop of intensive games is 800x600 & 1024x768 or 1280x700 wide-screen (since I have a 19 inch widescreen LCD). That’s the max. I will go in the resolution department & depending on the performance I will crank up the details (AA & AF).

My main priority is gaming…I don’t mind waiting 10 seconds more for a video/audio file to encode nor do I have mammoth Word or Excel documents...but as I said getting my money’s worth is also a concern since tech-stuff is ridiculously over-priced here compared to USA.

So I hope y’all can guide me through this.

Thanks & really appreciate the feedback.

 

[Jay_85]

I get your idea on getting a powerful GPU…but it’s too much over-priced here right now I think the 800GTS costs roughly about Rs.15,000+ so I don’t feel it’s worth it right now.

So if you’re suggesting in building a cheap dual core system right now since gaming performance is GPU dependent…shall I consider the new Athlons BE-2350? Athlon 4600+? Or the Core 2 Duo E 4300?
I don’t know about the price of them but they should roughly be priced like this
Core 2 Duo 4300 – Rs. 4,900
4400 – Rs. 5,800
Athlon X2 4000+ - Rs. 4,400
X2 4200+ - Rs. 5,100
X2 4400+ - Rs. 5,600
X2 4600+ - Rs. 6,000
X2 4800+ - Rs.6,400

The AMD processors price is not that certain so say the X2 4800 maybe for Rs. 5,500.

So what processor I go with to at least have a decent rig compared to my current Pentium D 805 processor?

 

[elbert]

If you must buy an AMD CPU buy the X2 3600+ brisbane and OC to around 2.8~3.0GHz. My cheap Heat sink & fan using AS5 can hit 2.85GHz @ 59c max stable. At that OC you'll beat the X2 4800+ no problem and its well below half the price of the X2 4800+ at least here in the US.

The 2600's and 8600's want show much of a increase over your current GPU at those resolutions. I would use the old GPU until the price drops on the 2900's or 8800's. By xmas the 2900's and 8800's should fall by half due to the new G92 nvidia core.

 

[bfellow]

That's funny why would a budget gamer have a 8800 GTX?

 

[Jay_85]

Hey…thx for the responses “Elbert”.

Well I went to the shops today to inquire about the prices & here’s a list of CPU’s which I felt I should consider looking at your responses

X2 4400+ - Rs. 5,600
X2 4600+ - is not available here.
X2 4800+ - Rs. 6,550
X2 5000+ - Rs. 8,250

C2D E 4300 - Rs. 4,800
E 4400 - Rs. 6,600
E 6320 - Rs. 7,500

Unfortunately I didn’t read your post on the X2 3600+ so I didn’t inquire about it…back to that in a bit.

Right so I’ve decided to draw the budget line on Rs. 9,500.

Taking this into consideration the C2D rig I intend to go with is E 6420 it will cost me Rs. 8,500.

If I want an AMD rig I feel these things should be considered…

The Jetway mobo costs me Rs. 3,000 so with the budget of Rs. 9,500 what I’m left with is Rs. 6,500.

The 2 processors which “fit” into the Rs. 6,500 bracket are X2 4400+ & X2 4800+

Now here is the deal with this rig…I will go with this rig only IF either of these two processors hit 2.6 - 2.8 GHz (get it in the league of X2 5200+ & X2 5600+ or somewhere in between the two to match up to the C2D E 6420)

I won’t have any money left in the budget to go with a heatsink so I will have to make-do with the Stock Heatsink.
Will it be possible to hit those speeds on a stock heatsink?

Also, please bear in mind my RAM is Kingston Value RAM with CL5 DDR2 667 MHz.
In the motherboard review the reviewer is using quality RAM…I don’t have that
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/jetway/M2A692-GDG/b1.htm

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/jetway/M2A692-GDG/b12.htm

These are the things to consider for this AMD rig.

Now coming back to your post “Elbert”
The X2 3600+ I think should be costing somewhere around Rs. 3,300 – Rs. 3,500.

I don’t think I will be able to push it with a stock heatsink (since you have it how much can you push it on a stock HSF?).

So I will have to add in a HSF…I read a review a while back on a heatsink of “ThermalRight” on AnandTech…that same HSF (I don’t remember the model number correctly) was available here & should be now too…it was costing about Rs. 2,700 back then so by now it should be Rs. 2,500.

If I go with X2 3600+ (it depends on availability of course & my luck!) & a ThermalRight HSF & Jetway mobo the total cost should be around Rs. 9,000 (3,330 for processor, 2,700 for HSF & 3,000 for mobo) which is well in the budget.

But the main thing you need to consider is my RAM it’s not one of those high powered one’s…so please do read the review of the Jetway mobo. carefully I’ll post the link again
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/jetway/M2A692-GDG/b1.htm

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2007/jetway/M2A692-GDG/b12.htm

The reason I’m a bit hesitant on OC’ing is I’ve never done it before so I have absolutely no idea on how to go about it.

The mobo. reviewer uses a X2 4000+ it costs somewhere around Rs. 4,400 here he OC’ed it too 2.7 GHz but I’m not sure if he did it on stock HSF.
X2 4200+ costs somewhere around Rs. 5,100.

That is all to the AMD part.

Coming back to the Intel rig…I feel there’s only 2 choices here.
E 4300 or E 6420.

I don’t feel going with either E 4400 or E 6320 is the correct decision coz there’s only about Rs. 2,000 diff. max. between E 4400 & E 6420.
Rs. 2,000 is really not a big deal at all.

I guess I’ll go with the E 6420 here

OR shall I save up & go with the E 4300 coz the resolutions I will be gaming at & with the mid-range graphics cards E 4300 will be best suited?
I saw this benchmark here on X-Bit Labs
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6420_7.html

The E 4300 performs too poorly in FEAR & that’s one game I really do would like to play decently enough.

I suppose that’s all to consider then.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

 

[elbert]

That's funny why would a budget gamer have a 8800 GTX?

Simply because a 8800GTX with any dual core would start beating a $1000 CPU with a 8800gts above 1680X1200 in most all games. Why would anyone buy a $1000 CPU and a $250 GPU just to be beat by a sub $100 CPU and a $500 GPU. The 8800GTS isnt a bad GPU by no means but look what a little more GPU powers means. Thats half the price and makes a big point.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_marathon/page11.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_marathon/page12.html

Note even budget gamers play at 1280X960 and the second like first graph shows full settings the cheap CPU setup pulls ahead. As games get more CPU intensive its best to go more cores than slightly faster dual core. Next year a quad kentsfield should make for the best gaming CPU. By price drops the Q6600 should be only about $100 next year around may.

 

[elbert]

Do realize that all the xbitlab benchmarks is run with PowerColor X1900 XTX 512MB. This GPU will beat any of the 2600's or 8600's for that matter. The question here is can you live with the lower dual core benchmarks as the X2 3600+ with 85fps is good. Just think of the X2 3600+ and the 8800GTS doing 98fps on this benchmark at max quality. More to the point your D805 and a 8800GTS doing 95fps at max quality.

The HD2600's and 8600's are going to run well under half the fps of the X1900 XTX as this benchmark shows while the 8800gts 320 wins by 20fps.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2007/test_nvidia_geforce_8600_gts_sli_8600_gt/16/#abschnitt_f_e_a_r

I cant suggest your mobo as it is over priced because its soon to be outdated by the AM2+ with PCIE 2.0. It has a low max RAM support of 8GB's which I would look at only mobo's with at least a max of 16GB support.

again wait till next year for a quad core as your D805 can perform well for another year given a good GPU.

 

[f61]

If you decide on the AMD solution, the nVidia card can stay until the stupidity shakes out on the 8600/2600 scene. BTW, both of these are your 7300 GT with 4 pixel shaders (4*8 or 32 streamers). IMHO wait for better offerings of the 8000/2000 series, like 256bit with 256Mb and at least 96 streamers (4*24). One thing about MoBo's, they're in a state of change, with all the announcements pending. Stuff from early this year will be obsolete by next Quarter. My 2c is to see if this MoBo is availible in your region of the world. It could be competetive in price.

f61

 

[Jay_85]

Hey folks thanks for all your suggestions.

So I've decided to wait! Yup.

As you say PCIe Gen 2.0 is coming with the new G33/G35 chipsets from Intel...& C2D Price drops on 22nd July.

I've decided not too think of any upgrading until mid/end of August by then the price cut on the C2D Q6600 will be here & the G33/G35 chipsets should also be available.

It would be safe to go with the Q6600 if the price drops wouldn't it? or I should wait for the other line of Quad Cores from Intel? I expect my processor to last me at least a year.

Moreover I read an article here

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20070622PD217.html

Says AMD Phenom launching in November so it should be here by December....& there already is a mobo. available for it according to here

http://www.digitimes.com/Backgrounders/ArtReview.asp?datePublish=2007/06/22&pages=PR&seq=209

So if the Phenom launching turns out to be true...I'll wait for it.

I'll think about all this stuff now basically mid-August.

Once again I would like to thank you all for your help...especially Elbert.

Cheers!

 

[Jay_85]

Hey f61 I read your suggestion on the Biostar mobo. seems pretty interesting
I inquired & it is available here it costs about Rs. 4,500 – 4,800 but that’s the price of the one with a HDMI port instead of a DVI one
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/content.php?S_ID=182
I’ll inquire again on the particular model which you suggested
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/content.php?S_ID=183

So say I go with this mobo & a 3600+ Brisbane processor (costs around Rs. 3,100) with that Thermalright heatsink (or any other heatsink upto Rs.3,000 will inquire & let you know about the models available.)
The total does come upto Rs. 9,500 which is well within my budget.
BUT you also do need to consider that my RAM is el-cheapo one.
Kingston Value RAM DDR2 667 MHz.
Now will I be able to overclock with this RAM? If I can I’ll start inquiring about the latest prices of these things.…or just forget it.

 

[elbert]

The Q6600 is a great CPU. Its price is a bit high but bang for the buck it beats everything currently. Phenom should beat the Q6600 but not by much the big differance will be price as any new CPU will be high. The same goes for Penry. Unless Intel and AMD gets back into the MHz race the number of cores will only make a noticeable improvement.

I don't expect either AMD or Intel to have octal core CPU's until the end of next year and like you those will be out of my price range. Be careful of G33/G35 as some only support DDR3 if your thinking of migrating your 667 RAM.

Dont buy the first batch of AM2+ mobo's as PCIE 2.0 should have PCI Express x32 or at least a bit higher than X16. Mobo makers are having problems with AM2+ mobos as even AMD's test mobos are better. We will not know which if any of the first batch of mobo's are good until phenom is independently reviewed. This mobo is a good move toward getting those reviews. I wouldnt buy this mobo until ive seen Phenom tests with it or give biostar time for revisions.