Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Strong Ammunition!!

Last response: in Home Theatre
Share
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 8:16:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving
a Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition" will have very strong ammunition
to use in holding to the 2006 deadline that Joe Barton wants.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/02172005he...

Most people suggest that his 2006 deadline is his playing bad cop to
Powell and Ferree's plan for 2009 which is more realistic. But I have
been told that LG will testify that they will have stand alone ATSC to
analog receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006 deadline if the
deadline is upheld. Specifically NOT the cost of integrated receivers
but STAND ALONE receivers when I further questioned the source.

The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.

On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French
or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Bob Miller

More about : strong ammunition

February 14, 2005 8:16:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Do you have any life at all?

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving a
> Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition" will have very strong ammunition to
> use in holding to the 2006 deadline that Joe Barton wants.
>
> http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/02172005he...
>
> Most people suggest that his 2006 deadline is his playing bad cop to
> Powell and Ferree's plan for 2009 which is more realistic. But I have been
> told that LG will testify that they will have stand alone ATSC to analog
> receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006 deadline if the deadline
> is upheld. Specifically NOT the cost of integrated receivers but STAND
> ALONE receivers when I further questioned the source.
>
> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for another
> few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.
>
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would
> be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or
> Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Bob Miller
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 8:16:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would be
> far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese
> into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?
A: None.

Q: Why does Bob Miller post all these inane messages?
A: He refuses to take the medication that he has been prescribed.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 8:16:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

His entire existence is based upon trying to kill the current HDTV
broadcasting system. He is living in a dream world.

JT wrote:
> Do you have any life at all?
>
> "Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > [junk]
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 10:49:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Booby..... Your unemployed and posting here like it's the truth, if you had
a real job or life you would not have time for this non-sense. Bobby get a
life, a real job, or just get out! Almost funny!

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving a
> Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition"
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 6:04:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> ... But I have been told that LG will testify that they will have stand
> alone ATSC to analog receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006
> deadline if the deadline is upheld.

Excellent news!

> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future

Decently priced for whom, the manufacturer or the consumer? LG shouldn't be
expected to give their products away.

> ...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
> MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....

Phil
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 6:04:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Phil Ross (paross@pacbell.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> "Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > ...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
> > MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....

For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TiVoForRealLi...
February 15, 2005 10:17:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
>....
>
> Q: Why does Bob Miller post all these inane messages?
> A: He refuses to take the medication that he has been prescribed.

Bob has never denied that he has financial stake in his ideas. He's
passionate about his ideas and that I respect, but this newsgroup isn't
the place for them. Almost all of his post are DTV centric and focus on
one of two things: 1. The expanshion of the non-High Definition side of
DTV via a next generation of OTA tuners and new subscription based
providers that will "rise up" to "overtake satellite and cable
companies" or the adoption of COFDM vs 8VSB and how the "US is a 2nd
world country because of their use of modulation".

When pressed to debate these issues, Bob has no explanation for:

1. The excellent field test of 5th gen 8VSB tuners. Sinclare
broadcasting group (probably the most powerful anti-8VSB organzation in
the US) put out a press release praising 5th gen 8VSB tuners and
declared the battle over, however Bob continues to wage his own
personal war, often contradicting himself (e.g. he agreed with
Sinclare, but he continues to trash talk the US system and 8VSB
modulation)

2. Bob will claim other countries are ahead of the US, he'll point to
mobile technology as an example and ignore the logical reasons why it
makes sense for counties such as India and China to invest in such
infrastructure where they currently have nothing. What's practicle for
China and India to invest money in may not be practicle for the US, Bob
ignores the big picture.

3. Bob will claim other countries are ahead of the US in spite of the
fact that the US in unmatched in the amount of OTA High Definition
programming available. Currently about 75% of prime time television in
the US is available in High Definition in all major markets, check the
listings. Look at the prime time spots of CBS, NBC, ABC, etc... All the
networks in the US have embraced HDTV because the government steped in
and made a decision to force standardization of 8VSB. Bob doesn't
believe a modulation standard should be forced, he believes
broadcasters should have the right to select what they want (an insane
idea that leads to chaos for television manufactures and ultimately
consumers).

4.Bob's current passion is pushing his grand vision for what he
believes is to come, "a new bread of OTA subscription based providers
that will make cable and satellite obsolete". Bob's argument is always
one of price over quality, he's very vocal about how he believes the
cable and satellite companies have too much power and charge customers
too much, yet can all see how "successful" USTV has been, in spite of a
relationship with the worlds #1 retail giant Walmart, USDTV has largely
failed to gain any ground. Bob can not provide even a high level
business plan summary of how similar startups could take on cable/sat.
He's even sudgested that broadcasters would cut out the middle man and
enter into the subscription based arena themselfs (again he can't
explain where they are going to get the money to invest in the huge
infrastructure involved in customer service, accounting, equipment
service and leasing, etc...), he can't give us any compelling reasons
why broascasters would want to take this risk or explain how the
cable/sat companies will fall when they continues to offer their
customers better benefits through composite service offerings (e.g.
broadband, digital phone, DVR).

The worst part about Bobs grand vision is that, if a success it would
almost certainly do away with free OTA High Definition.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 2:06:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
> another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very
real.

Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB? There's
no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue, but facts
are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.

>
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
> would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the
French
> or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Bob Miller

First off, I wouldn't follow the French into ANYTHING. Second, this
country (the one you hate BOOBY) is the LEADER, repeat, the LEADER in
high definition telecasting, both OTA and via satellite and cable. I
know that's yet ANOTHER fact you like to avoid. No BOB, it's the other
countries that are the "2nd world countries". So calling the U.S. a 2nd
world country doesn't make it so. This is just another LIE in the ever
increasing pile of LIES you've told over the years.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 2:10:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
> France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
> terrestrially this summer.
> Bob Miller

Thanks for providing the FACTS to support my earlier statement that the
cowards....ooops French, are a 2nd world country, only JUST NOW getting
onboard with OTA HD while we've had it for YEARS. And you had the NERVE
to call US a 2nd world country. You are a despicable liar BOB.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 2:14:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
> I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in

> the world.

Incorrect and a lie, but you knew that already.


> This is not necessary and it has caused stagnation in our
> digital transition.

No BOB, YOU and your SINCLAIR buddies caused the stagnation. We're
about 1-2 years behind where we'd be if it wasn't for you and your
COFDM clowns and fellow Snake Oil Salesmen.

> It is time to change and now is a good time to do
> it. If anyone doubts this is true about the modulation does anyone
doubt
> it about MPEG2?
>
> To transition to MPEG4 is reason enough to scrap all current 8-VSB
> receivers and if we do that we might as well re-visit the modulation.
>
> Bob Miller

No BOOBY LIEMEISTER, it's over for you. I doubt you'll ever understand
that since you've been posting about the imminent 'death' of 8VSB for
years and, in FACT (oops, sorry BOOBY, a FACT) it's stronger than ever
today. The next 'transition' we'd all like to see, is you flipping
burgers at your local McDonalds.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 2:20:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

jeremy@pdq.net wrote:
> Mark Crispin wrote:
> The worst part about Bobs grand vision is that, if a success it would
> almost certainly do away with free OTA High Definition.


And that is the most hideous part of BOB's lies and fantasies. It's one
thing for us to all easily recognize his relentless lies,
embellishments and distortions, but it's quite another to realize that,
as I've always said, he has ZERO interest in HD. In fact, as you said,
his plans would do away with HD. Of course he'll deny it, but virtually
everything he's touted over the years has NOTHING to do with HD. This
is why he's constantly chided "BOB, this is an HD ng".
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 3:13:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
> Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at
AVSForum
> because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people
read
> AVSForum.

As always BOB, you cherry pick your posts just as you do here. We have
all commented RIGHT HERE BOB how you constantly, over the years,
totally, 100%, ignore the myriad of posters that RAVE about their 8VSB
OTA HD reception. You know damn well that I've joked about that very
fact for years. Ignoring these posters does not make them go away BOB.
Ignoring these posters doesn't change the facts that 8VSB works very
well. You have now done the same thing in attempting to distort what's
going on at AVS. Do you even realize that there are 100s (probably
THOUSANDS) of threads at AVS in the "Local HDTV Info and Reception"
section that shows the VAST MAJORITY of people have zero problems with
AVS. THAT is where you find the majority of opinions on what's going on
with local OTA HD around the country. BOB, when you cherry pick a
thread that indicates problems that SOME are having, that doesn't make
it the rule. Yes, of course some people have problems, NOTHING is 100%.
God knows that others have posted right here the myriad of problems
with COFDM. My ONLY experience with COFDM, via XM radio, has show how
DISMAL that modulation scheme can be. So stop your bullshit.
>
> Inkyblacks writes TODAY...
>
> "Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might
buy
> one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG
chip
> really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
> themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
> nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a
great
> chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
> stinks."

And so????? There is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING, in the above excerpt that
shows that prior gen receivers don't work well in most applications.
Saying that something is "not much better than a 4th gen chip" says
NOTHING, NADA, ZERO about how well the 4th gen chips work in most
applications. So BOB, another one of your obvious attempts at
distortion has not passed me or others by. If I posted all the positive
remarks about 8VSB reception, JUST IN THE NEW YORK OTA HD THREAD over
at AVS, I would totally choke the bandwidth of this ng. No BOB, you are
a God damn distorter of the truth and I find your tactics utterly
deplorable. Why don't you give up? Does it not occur to you yet that we
catch you in every lie, every distortion, ever embellishment? Are you
reaaly this stupid BOB? Do you relish this punishment for your
repulsive tactics? Unreal, utterl unreal.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 5:03:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Phil Ross (paross@pacbell.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
>>>MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>>
>>Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....
>
>
> For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
>

Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?

France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
terrestrially this summer.

Sat...
http://www.euro1080.tv/

Terrestrial...
http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Research/ResearchAnno...

"News from European broadcasters, in particular France, looks promising
for MPEG-4. The CEOs of TPS, French satellite TV service indicated
recently that MPEG-4 would be used for their HD channels (at least one
channel is due to be live next summer). The French terrestrial
broadcaster, and TPS' main shareholder, TF1 is also expected to follow
the MPEG-4 path. It is not unfeasible that this will create an
unstoppable momentum in Europe, as these early movers drive down the
relative cost of MPEG-4 broadcast and consumer equipment." NEXT SUMMER
IS THIS SUMMER NOW.

China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics. Any idea
what a "majority" is in China? About the same number of homes as the US
has citizens.

http://www.entrust.com/news/2004/archive2004_6037.htm?e...

I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
the world. This is not necessary and it has caused stagnation in our
digital transition. It is time to change and now is a good time to do
it. If anyone doubts this is true about the modulation does anyone doubt
it about MPEG2?

To transition to MPEG4 is reason enough to scrap all current 8-VSB
receivers and if we do that we might as well re-visit the modulation.

Bob Miller
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 7:30:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
> >
>
> Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?

Yes, using what you post yourself:

> France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
> terrestrially this summer.
>
> China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
> having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics.

Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
HD, but, then, so does the US.

> I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
> the world.

Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
STBs working correctly.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/WorkingDo...
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 10:34:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

vidguy7@aol.com wrote:
> Bob Miller wrote:
>
>>The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
>>another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.
>
> Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB? There's no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue, but facts
> are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.
>
Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at AVSForum
because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people read
AVSForum.

Inkyblacks writes TODAY...

"Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might buy
one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG chip
really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a great
chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
stinks."

GSFromCT writes TODAY...

"The new Samsung STBs have 5th generation tuners. Do they use ATI chips?
I have not heard any glowing reports on how well the new Samsungs handle
multipath.
I feel like I am in a holding pattern waiting for a 5th gen STB to be
produced.
LG says 4th gen STB sales have not been that great. Have they ever
stopped to think it may be because multipath problems are a major issue
for some of us? All those analog TVs are going to need a STB in order to
receive ATSC broadcasts. Many of us will need a STB that can deal with
multipath correctly."

"Before the broadcast flag fiasco? Me too Schlotkins, me too. In my case
it is kind of worthless to pick up a box now as my latest test
(DB-2010)proved that I could only get 1 channel out of 7 in my local
area. I have better luck getting out of market stations."

HE GETS OUT OF MARKET STATIONS!! Like Mark Schubin who can get Philly
sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats
so good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!

All at ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=0f4bda3...
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 10:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

This is not AVSForum, so please posting all these ramblings. I really
don't care what one guy says at some online forum. Or do you think
that just because it's on the IntarWeb that it must be true?


Bob Miller wrote:
> vidguy7@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Bob Miller wrote:
>>
>>> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
>>> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
>>> another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very
>>> real.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB?
>> There's no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue,
>> but facts
>> are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.
>>
> Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at AVSForum
> because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people read
> AVSForum.
>
> Inkyblacks writes TODAY...
>
> "Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might buy
> one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG chip
> really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
> themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
> nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a great
> chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
> stinks."
>
> GSFromCT writes TODAY...
>
> "The new Samsung STBs have 5th generation tuners. Do they use ATI chips?
> I have not heard any glowing reports on how well the new Samsungs handle
> multipath.
> I feel like I am in a holding pattern waiting for a 5th gen STB to be
> produced.
> LG says 4th gen STB sales have not been that great. Have they ever
> stopped to think it may be because multipath problems are a major issue
> for some of us? All those analog TVs are going to need a STB in order to
> receive ATSC broadcasts. Many of us will need a STB that can deal with
> multipath correctly."
>
> "Before the broadcast flag fiasco? Me too Schlotkins, me too. In my case
> it is kind of worthless to pick up a box now as my latest test
> (DB-2010)proved that I could only get 1 channel out of 7 in my local
> area. I have better luck getting out of market stations."
>
> HE GETS OUT OF MARKET STATIONS!! Like Mark Schubin who can get Philly
> sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
> satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats so
> good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!
>
> All at ...
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=0f4bda3...
>
February 15, 2005 10:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote Like Mark Schubin who can get
Philly
> sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
> satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats so
> good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!

You're actually STILL harping about that "apartment" fixation of yours?
I feel sorry for your family.
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 4:23:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>>For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
>>>
>>
>>Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?
>
>
> Yes, using what you post yourself:
>
>
>>France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
>>terrestrially this summer.
>>
>>China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
>>having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics.
>
>
> Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
> HD, but, then, so does the US.

Very weird, France doesn't and France does. Make up your mind. China
actually has some HD now. Numerous test sites being broadcast. Your
claim was that neither had "any" HD. Satellite counts, test sites count
when you invoke "any".
>
>
>>I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
>>the world.
>
>
> Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
> all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
> STBs working correctly.
>
Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
to move up to MPEG4 and while we are at it go to the most advanced
modulation at the same time. This Thursday LG will suggest that if the
US buys millions of 8-VSB receivers at one time that they will produce
them for around $50 at the end of 2006 if the digital transition happens
on December 31st.

We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
receivers for $40 each that use MPEG4 or maybe even DMB-T Chinese
receivers for $25 each, replace all current DTV receivers and have the
best DTV HD both compression and modulation wise in the world. It would
even cost less than the LG plan.

And we don't have to wait till January 1st 2007 to do this with COFDM.
We could do it today, no delay, hurray !! Hint I will sell the $40 COFDM
receivers and make a bundle in the bargain.

Bob Miller
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 4:23:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

>We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>receivers for $40 each that use MPEG4 or maybe even DMB-T Chinese
>receivers for $25 each, replace all current DTV receivers and have the
>best DTV HD both compression and modulation wise in the world. It would
>even cost less than the LG plan.

Talk about "keeping hope alive"......you've got me jazzed. I'm going
to suffer the three hour drive down to Florida to get me a lottery
ticket.
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 4:23:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
> > HD, but, then, so does the US.
>
> Very weird, France doesn't and France does.

France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
the difference. TV = OTA TV.

> > Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
> > all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
> > STBs working correctly.
> >
>
> Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
> to move up to MPEG4

So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
other country in the world.

> and while we are at it go to the most advanced
> modulation at the same time.

Luckily we already have that.

> We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
> receivers for $40

There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.

But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
lame-brained advertising schemes.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif
February 16, 2005 6:10:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"Mark Crispin" <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.63.0502141035180.13442@shiva1.cac.washington.edu...
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would be
>> far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese
>> into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?

Red? Yeah right.

"To get rich is glorious"
- Deng Xiaoping
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 8:13:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:

> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>>Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
>>>HD, but, then, so does the US.
>>
>>Very weird, France doesn't and France does.
>
>
> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
>
First I have heard of this one.
>
>>>Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
>>>all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
>>>STBs working correctly.
>>>
>>
>>Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
>>to move up to MPEG4
>
>
> So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
> receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
> have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
> other country in the world.

And how many is that? And where do you get your figures? More than the 6
million in the UK? Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at
over 2 million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last
year. I can only imagine what they will sell this year. And the UK is
set to sell 6 million more receivers this year. I don't know what Italy
is doing but they were sold out last I looked.

These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.
The only way we can keep up is to have more Congressional Hearing and
decide that the mandate was not enough, we are going to have to give
away 10's of millions of receivers.

Bob Miller
>
>
>> and while we are at it go to the most advanced
>>modulation at the same time.
>
>
> Luckily we already have that.
>
>
>>We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>>receivers for $40
>
>
> There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.
>
> But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
> US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
> lame-brained advertising schemes.
>
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 10:40:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > > Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite
delivery of
> > > HD, but, then, so does the US.
> >
> > Very weird, France doesn't and France does.
>
> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you
understand
> the difference. TV = OTA TV.

Yeah but Jeff, if BOB acknowledged that then he wouldn't be misleading
the people. BOB thrives on misleading people. BOB thrives on lies,
distortions and embellishments. The 'man' is just beyond comprehension.
He is one very sick individual.
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 1:09:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005, Jeff Rife wrote:
> So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
> receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
> have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
> other country in the world.

I hope that people are collecting these Bob Miller posts and forwarding
them to the FCC. It is difficult to think of a better way to discredit
Bob Miller than to use his own words.

>> We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>> receivers for $40
> There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.

Even a COFDM radio receiver costs at least $80.

Part of the problem with Psycho Bob's rants is that there is no
recompense available for those who fall victim to the rants. He simply
does not have the assets.

> But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
> US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
> lame-brained advertising schemes.

The more of Psycho Bob's rants that we forward to the FCC, the less likely
that this will come to pass. We must make it clear and obvious that
Psycho Bob is a crackpot.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 1:27:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
>> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
> First I have heard of this one.

More accurately, Psycho Bob resorts to his trick of pretending ignorance
or a confusion in terminology when he is caught in a lie.

I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan. Remember, Psycho Bob has
stated, with certainty, that OTA digital TV will be in cars and in cell
phones in Japan this year.

> Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at over 2
> million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last year.

Most of those sets do not receive OTA digital TV, for the simple fact that
the customers are not in the service area. Rather, they have satellite
and/or cable. An OTA digital tuner is just another feature of the TV that
they don't use.

Japan's government does not allow people like Psycho Bob to spread FUD
about a government broadcast decision. In Japan, people like Psycho Bob
are visited by men who are missing part of one finger.

If we had the Japanese system here, Psycho Bob would be feeding the fishes
in the East River wearing his cement shoes, and TV manufacturers would
have been required to include ATSC tuners since 2000.

Nor would there be any talk of other systems. NHK decides, everybody else
follows.

> These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.

Yet another bogus Psycho Bob prediction. In Psycho Bob's language, "are
about to blow by" means "haven't done anything yet to match."

This is so familiar of the stupid 1970s "PAL rules, NTSC drools" flames of
the Psycho Bobs of that time. Never mind that solid state circuitry had
made "never twice same color" a dated joke, and that PAL's phase shift had
ceased to be a benefit and was now a liability.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 11:34:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>
>>> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you
>>> understand
>>> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
>>
>> First I have heard of this one.
>
>
> More accurately, Psycho Bob resorts to his trick of pretending ignorance
> or a confusion in terminology when he is caught in a lie.

Not pretending ignorance just politely trying to point out the absurdity
in suggesting that HDTV only refers to OTA TV. Now it seems Mark has
bought into this definition also. HDTV applies to cable satellite or
broadcast "TV". In all three cases TV is broadcast. HDTV is just a
particular set of resolutions. INSANE SEMANTICS we could call it.
>
> I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan. Remember, Psycho Bob
> has stated, with certainty, that OTA digital TV will be in cars and in cell phones in Japan this year.

It is good to hear that Mark is going to finally be able to come up with
hard evidence that there is not going to be any cell phone DTV this
year. Of course his take was that cell phone DTV was a myth everywhere.
My prediction is we will have ubiquitous cell phone DTV in the world
including the US over the next few years with Japan and Korea being the
first. I guess Mark is trying to make the prediction JUST JAPAN and JUST
THIS YEAR. OK Japan will have DTV OTA cell phones this year and if not I
lose but in any event if not this year as PR reports suggest then soon
after like the first quarter of next year. Big deal. In the meantime
look at my next post "Bitty Witty OTA DTV Receivers" (REALLY NEAT
STUFF!!). It gives more details.
>
>> Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at over 2 million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last year.
>
>
> Most of those sets do not receive OTA digital TV, for the simple fact that the customers are not in the service area. Rather, they have
> satellite and/or cable. An OTA digital tuner is just another feature of the TV that they don't use.

ALL of these sets sold with OTA DTV receivers are bought as an option
that the customer chooses. A customer could make the informed decision
that they want a digital TV that will be capable of receiving digital
terrestrial signals EVEN if they are not at present being broadcast in
their area. They could for instance look at the map of coverage now and
anticipated and see how long they might have to wait. But all these OTA
equipped TV sets are being sold with OTA because the customer wants that
feature. READ THE SITE!!!

http://www.dibeg.org/news/news-3/news-e3.htm
"Digital terrestrial TVs accounted for 7.5% of CRT sets (up 1.0
percentage points from the previous month) and 96.8% of PDP sets (up 1.3
percentage points), with a figure of 47.3% for LCD sets (up 6.2
percentage points), indicating that digital terrestrial sets are
becoming an increasingly popular option in flat panel TVs."

Notice that NOT all TV sets sold include OTA receivers. People have to
ask for it and then pay for it. NOT SO IN THE US where you must pay for
it even if you are one of the 85% of viewers who don't need it.

The month before they said.... NOTICE STATEMENT " increasing popularity
of terrestrial digital sets among flat panel TV buyers" This suggest
they may have free will in Japan something we have lost here at home
with our MANDATE!!

"Terrestrial digital TVs accounted for 7.4% of CRT sets (no change from
the previous month) and 95.5% of PDP sets (up 0.2 points). Terrestrial
digital TVs accounted for 41.1% of LCD sets (up 5.8 points), indicating
the increasing popularity of terrestrial digital sets among flat panel
TV buyers."
>
> Japan's government does not allow people like Psycho Bob to spread FUD about a government broadcast decision. In Japan, people like Psycho Bob
> are visited by men who are missing part of one finger.

Maybe Mark could list just ONE source for his BS do ya think? He just
talks about proving me wrong in the future. Never any backup.
>
> If we had the Japanese system here, Psycho Bob would be feeding the fishes in the East River wearing his cement shoes, and TV manufacturers
> would have been required to include ATSC tuners since 2000.
>
> Nor would there be any talk of other systems. NHK decides, everybody
> else follows.

OK Mark we will listen to the gospel according to Mark and NHK.

The sites I quote are from an organization called Dibeg which describes
themselves as .... (NHK is a member and two of Dibeg's top leaders are
executives of NHK)

http://www.dibeg.org/
The Digital Broadcasting Experts Group (DiBEG) was founded in September
1997 to promote ISDB-T, the Japanese Digital Terrestrial Broadcasting
System, in the world. And also, DiBEG promotes exchange of technical
information and international cooperation to facilitate common
understanding in the world and smooth exchange of programs in digital era.

Vice-chairman : Shigeki Moriyama ( Japan Broadcasting Corporation(NHK) )
Document working group Director : Dr. Hiroo Arata ( Japan
Broadcasting Corporation(NHK) )

http://www.dibeg.org/aboutus/maine.htm

READ THE SITE make up your own mind. It looks like numerous entities are
talking to the Japanese viewer about HDTV and OTA broadcasting.

Here is a map of the Japanese OTA rollout
http://www.dibeg.org/news/news-3/DiBEG%20NEWS45-E.pdf

So Mark why is the Japanese Government allowing this Dibeg to promote
all this FUD??

Bob Miller
>
>> These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.
>
> Yet another bogus Psycho Bob prediction. In Psycho Bob's language, "are about to blow by" means "haven't done anything yet to match."
>
> This is so familiar of the stupid 1970s "PAL rules, NTSC drools" flames of the Psycho Bobs of that time. Never mind that solid state circuitry
> had made "never twice same color" a dated joke, and that PAL's phase shift had ceased to be a benefit and was now a liability.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.
February 17, 2005 11:14:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote

> I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
> Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.

It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums. I'd
bet anything they're
overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
British and
(to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.

Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 12:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

David wrote:
> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>
> > I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to
prove
> > Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>
> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV
forums. I'd
> bet anything they're
> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the

> British and
> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>
> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.


Ah, but David, those posts would be discarded by BOB as "irrelevant" or
simply like he does with all of the POSITIVE posts right here about
8VSB "they don't exist". It's a strange delusional world this guy lives
in.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 10:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

David wrote:
> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>
>
>>I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
>>Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>
>
> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums. I'd
> bet anything they're
> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
> British and
> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>
> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.
>
>
Good idea. Let those who want to check out these forums to see if they
are "overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints" like you
say they are.

UK
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/index.php
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=...

Germany forum
http://forum.digitalfernsehen.de/forum/forumdisplay.php...

and info on Berlin...
http://www.ueberall-tv.de/
http://www.ueberall-tv.de/reg_BB/1BBstart/BB_start.htm
http://www.garv.de/dvb_t.htm

info on North Germany
http://www.dvb-t-nord.de/

info on Nordrhein-Westfalen
http://nrw.ueberallfernsehen.de/start.html

info on Rhein-Main Gebiet
http://www.hr-online.de/website/extern/ueberallfernsehe...

info on Bavaria..
http://www.dvb-t-bayern.de/

info on middle Germany
http://www.dvbt-mitteldeutschland.de/

Info on Australia..
http://www.dba.org.au/

Forums on Australia
aus.tv
aus.tv.digital
http://www.dtvforum.info/
February 17, 2005 10:10:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:z_5Rd.2659$IU.141@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> David wrote:
>> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>>
>>
>>>I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
>>>Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>>
>>
>> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums.
>> I'd bet anything they're
>> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
>> British and
>> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>>
>> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.
>>
>>
> Good idea. Let those who want to check out these forums to see if they are
> "overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints" like you
> say they are.
>
> UK
> http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/index.php
> http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=...
>
> Germany forum
> http://forum.digitalfernsehen.de/forum/forumdisplay.php...
>
> and info on Berlin...
> http://www.ueberall-tv.de/
> http://www.ueberall-tv.de/reg_BB/1BBstart/BB_start.htm
> http://www.garv.de/dvb_t.htm
>
> info on North Germany
> http://www.dvb-t-nord.de/
>
> info on Nordrhein-Westfalen
> http://nrw.ueberallfernsehen.de/start.html
>
> info on Rhein-Main Gebiet
> http://www.hr-online.de/website/extern/ueberallfernsehe...
>
> info on Bavaria..
> http://www.dvb-t-bayern.de/
>
> info on middle Germany
> http://www.dvbt-mitteldeutschland.de/
>
> Info on Australia..
> http://www.dba.org.au/
>
> Forums on Australia
> aus.tv
> aus.tv.digital
> http://www.dtvforum.info/

You never learned how to properly do a usenet search, did you?

I've had almost 10,000 results with the searches I've done.
I've pointed them out to you and you ignored them.
Anyway, it hardly matters what you think about all this, doesn't it?
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 12:03:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
>
> With an order of ONE at your local convenience store in the UK you
can
> buy such a converter for $35 to $55 NOW.

Oh well golly gee BOOBY PIE, what better reason to switch to COFDM and
change our entire 8VSB infrastructure then saving $25 on a STANDARD
DEFINITION COFDM receiver. Hey BOOBY, have I told you recently that you
are absolutely beyond belief?



> Another Haliburton deal it looks like.
Just can't resist politics can you BOOBSTER? When people like you come
to the realization that Haliburton is the ONLY company in the world
capable of doing what they do on a large scale, you'll realize how
idiotic your remarks are. But I digree, this IS a high definition ng.

First a monopoly on the US market
> for LG and when the receivers don't sell a MANDATE and then an
> overpriced big contract to supply receivers when that doesn't work.

What doesn't work Mr. LIAR? The 8VSB receivers that have been out there
for years have been working just find Mr. LIAR. You are a despicable
little man who is utterly incapable of telling the truth. What a
spokesman you are for COFDM. Unreal. With salespeople like you, who
needs Chapter 11?

>
> I would like to ask Mr. Kim if LG would lower their IP royalties from
$6
> to $.60 to help the transition. $.60 is what the Brits are paying for
IP
> royalty rights when they buy their receivers. Why I would like to ask

> are we paying $5.40 more for a modulation that is far far inferior.

Well golly BOOBSTER PIE, that $5.40 sure will make the difference
between make and break. When did you first realize your neurosis became
a pyschosis? Instead of wallowing in your misery from your failed
business plan, why don't you get off your ass and change careers?
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:58:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
>> would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the
>> French or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?
> A: None.

"Red" China?

As for France - their DVB-T system is likely to MPEG2 Standard Def for
simulcast of the existing analogue terrestrials, and MPEG4 for SD and HD
Pay-TV. Not sure if there are proposals for FTA OTA HD using MPEG4. Think
the system is due to roll out next year, around the same time that Sky
launch their HD service (again expected to be MPEG4 and probably DVB-S2
eventually, though possible DVB-S initially?) via satellite.

2006 is likely to be when HD starts becoming a more mainstream reality in
Europe. (At the moment we just have Euro1080/HD1 and some other HD tests -
including one from TF-1 - one of the main commercial French channels)

Steve
February 19, 2005 6:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

<vidguy7@aol.com> wrote

<why don't you get off your ass and change careers?

THIS is boob's career. Posting lie after lie, just to purposely anger us.
!