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2nd Seagate hard drive failed!

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June 26, 2007 12:45:20 AM

Hi,
I have a 320 GB 7200.10. Recently its header started to get stuck, and occassionally it won't be detected by my system. I have a PCP&C's 1KW Turbo Cool which surely has enough juice to power it. I just want to know if getting a WD's 320 GB would result in any performance shortfall compared to Seagate's.

Btw, this is the 2nd drive from Seagate (same model) that is causing me trouble.

sincerely,
Jd
June 28, 2007 6:11:38 PM

Well i have exactly the same model but the ide version for about 3 months and i had absolutely no problem with it.
June 28, 2007 6:49:26 PM

Quote:
Hi,
I have a 320 GB 7200.10. Recently its header started to get stuck, and occassionally it won't be detected by my system. I have a PCP&C's 1KW Turbo Cool which surely has enough juice to power it. I just want to know if getting a WD's 320 GB would result in any performance shortfall compared to Seagate's.

Btw, this is the 2nd drive from Seagate (same model) that is causing me trouble.

sincerely,
Jd


Try to diagonosis with sea tool from the web site. It will tell you if there there is any problem. You can exchange with another one if it is defective.
Related resources
June 28, 2007 6:53:22 PM

I've had a dozen Seagate drives and am still using a 120gb 7200.7 which is about 5 years old in my system now. I have never had an issue with Seagate but just as with all companies I'm sure duds are out there. My question is if you were using the same motherboard for both failures there might be a problem there.
June 28, 2007 6:58:48 PM

I'm disappointed to hear that. The Seagate 7200.10 uses PMR technology which increases reliability and speed. Without knowing the exact WD 320 you are looking at I can't be sure, but I don't think it has PMR. Here is a link to the HD charts so that you can check relative speed. Ignore "interface performance" as it means nothing.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage.html
June 28, 2007 7:34:48 PM

Try to change the damn Seagate HD with Western digital. And don't worry you will not notice any defference in performance. More likely is a compatibility problem with your motherboard.
June 29, 2007 6:33:08 AM

the hard drives do need some cooling with them for them to be reliable. Ive had 4 drives in my system for over 2 years this is including 2 raptors and 2 7200.7 drives and they have been working flawlessly over that time period. This is with nothing more then the 1 intake fan on my antec superlanboy case.
June 29, 2007 7:13:44 AM

Proper cooling for 7200RPM hard drives is crucial. They are a lot hotter than 5400RPM drives. Most of my old drives were dead because of not enough cooling.
June 29, 2007 7:23:17 AM

Enough, Your hard drive did not over heat and cause a failure. everyone get a grip.
June 29, 2007 8:11:48 AM

You know everyone I know has had problems with SeaGate HDD lately. Maybe a few years ago they were good but now they have a high failure rate. Oh and you will notice a differance between a Raptor and a SeaGate as the Raptor spins 2800RPM's faster, "Don't listen to anybody that tells you different cause there full of Sh!t."
June 29, 2007 8:14:30 AM

Yeah, I second removing cooling as the culptit. Just a cooincidence -- I had a harddrive fail tonight! It was a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10

Fortunattely, that was the "storage" drive. The primary is a wonderful WD 10k rpm raptor. No problems there.

A slow "detecting IDE devices" on boot-up yields only the Baraccuda.

Switchin SATA ports doesn't help. Removing the primary doesn't help. Jumpers don't do anything.

I guess this is an honest-to-God failure? How can I get it replaced without the receipt?
June 29, 2007 8:33:37 AM

The receipt of purchase is in the accounting program from the company you bought it. Also the Model part number and serial number might help finding the receipt in their program. If this can't help try sending it directly back to Seagate. Check out this link.

https://store.seagate.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SgCheckWarrantyView?langId=-1&krypto=lZV0ifY90uy6PUbeNYxmlJ%2FeOamQTU8vX%2FyVcskL7Ra8YMmV34QjfaXbpO6NlvwR%2BTEC3tVdnhJ0%0AtmaQWKyGUNscSUkjrgNNSrX6sZWZFxPTN7qiNOvGlw%3D%3D&ddkey=SgSSORedirect
June 29, 2007 8:39:18 AM

hey Man, thanks for the link. The guys at Seagate sure will get a kick out of what's stored on there
a b G Storage
June 29, 2007 8:55:54 AM

Quote:
I've had a dozen Seagate drives and am still using a 120gb 7200.7 which is about 5 years old in my system now. I have never had an issue with Seagate but just as with all companies I'm sure duds are out there. My question is if you were using the same motherboard for both failures there might be a problem there.


As a tech iv seen quite a few seagates with bad sectors and head issues, but not as many issues as Maxtor. Personally, Seagate is my choice - quiet, cool and reliable.

Every year its a good idea to check the condition of your hdd's with the manufacturers tools, another tip - keep your hdd's cool and they will last alot longer ;) 
June 29, 2007 8:56:49 AM

also @ systemlord: A couple of years ago brother #1 was talking to brother #2 telling him that Seagate drives were crap. I asked brother #2 later and he said that #1 said that things might have changed and that Seagate drives were probably OK. Based on these posts I'm not convinced. By the way, Brother #1 is a hard disk forensic analyst. I think he was just being nice to Seagate. I am very disappointed because they were early adopters of PMR. I was considering buying one as a second drive on a new build. I have a Raptor and it's well understood that they rule as desktop drives, just look at the charts.
June 29, 2007 9:03:16 AM

Quote:
Yeah, I second removing cooling as the culptit. Just a cooincidence -- I had a harddrive fail tonight! It was a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10

Fortunattely, that was the "storage" drive. The primary is a wonderful WD 10k rpm raptor. No problems there.

A slow "detecting IDE devices" on boot-up yields only the Baraccuda.

Switchin SATA ports doesn't help. Removing the primary doesn't help. Jumpers don't do anything.

I guess this is an honest-to-God failure? How can I get it replaced without the receipt?


"See I rest my case", it seem no matter where I go I hear that SeaGates fail. I have a friend that dropped his WD Raptor four feet off the assfault and that was two years ago.
June 29, 2007 9:23:05 AM

It's funny when I see a comment by someone that says that heat generated by a hard drive will not kill it.

I have had a number of usb enclosed no fan only vents seagate hard drives of the 7200 rpm type. They all failed in an 18 month time frame.

They all were very warm to the touch.

So when I received their RMA replacements I put them in fan vented usb enclosures. I have not had a problem with them since.

Conversely I have two old 160GB IBM,s that run at 5400rpm, in vent only usb enclosures that run just fine.

I also have had two seagate 320's fail when I had them next to the floppy drive 3.5 inch bays, no direct fan blowing on them.

Of the six Seagate drives that have a fan blowing directly across them I have had no failures.

My latest Seagate drive failure was on that I had in a 5.25 inch bay with an adapter, again this was without any fan blowing in the drive.

My ambient air temp in my office is 69 to 70 degrees F.
Both computers run an inside temp of around 98 to 100 degrees F.

All my cases are Antec lanboys, with the 12 cm intake and 12 cm outflow fans.

No drive has failed, that has a fan blowing on it. Seagates also seem to run hotter, than all but the two older raptors that I have.

In my opinion drive heat is an issue, that needs addressing.
June 29, 2007 10:36:59 AM

Spend more get more, spend less get less. Theres always a rule to the exception. I personily have never heard of a Raptor failure. Yes there pricey but they just last wether in a hot or cool cases. It seems that if you don't have fans on a Seagate there going to die sooner or later as I've read here. Of corse look at how much your paying for them, there very low priced. I'm not bashing Seagate, but I can only go with the "facts".
June 29, 2007 11:06:11 AM

Quote:
Spend more get more, spend less get less. Theres always a rule to the exception. I personily have never heard of a Raptor failure. Yes there pricey but they just last wether in a hot or cool cases. It seems that if you don't have fans on a Seagate there going to die sooner or later as I've read here. Of corse look at how much your paying for them, there very low priced. I'm not bashing Seagate, but I can only go with the "facts".


Just wait, and you'll see Raptor failures. They've not been out long enough to see a lot of failures from them.

All the drives (not a lot, but maybe 10 or so) I've had in the past 10 years at home have been Seagate, and I have no failures yet. So, your facts seem to be slanted in one direction. If you were to take all of the data from all Seagate products across the globe, (and from other manufacturers as well), I'm sure you will see something different.

I think you should look at particular models of Seagate and compare. Each model has a list of operating specifications, and they can vary widely. So you cannot make a blanket statement about one manufacturer based solely on your perception of one model.

Maybe you should also throw a Raptor into a non-ventilated case to see how long that lasts as well. Most folks who are buying Raptors have the nicer cases where they are building them for performance, which usually means more air flow and cooler temps. That could, in effect, lower their failure rate. Actually, take any drive and don't give it much circulation. I bet a Raptor would die sooner or later without circulation too.

We have around 250-300 disk drives (FC, SCSI, and SATA) in our server rooms, with half of those being > 5 years old and I've had 2 failures in the past 3 years. And guess what, they are all Seagate.
June 29, 2007 11:39:36 AM

Please see my forum article in this thread.

I think Raptor drives have been out long enough (3 years or so) to get a feel for Raptor drive reliability.

I have a Fujitsu 9GB scsi drive that just hit 8 years of age. That I stopped using as an os drive when I retired my 98se box at the start of the year. It still runs linux like a champ.

I also have a very recent experience with Maxtor, where I had a drive fail, got it's RMA replacement, and that drive failed in the first month. It's replacement is working fine currently.

I used to buy IBM drives exclusively, until the deathstar series came out.

I shifted to Seagate when they increased their warranty to Five years.

------------------------- Personal Musing -----------------------------------------
I wish the I could find a hard drive that was SATA interfaced and as reliable as Fujitsu's SCSI drives at a price that did not match SCSI drives.
When ever I buy a notebook hard drive I get a Fujitsu. They just seem to last longer.
-------------------------- Personal Musing ----------------------------------------

So get it cool, and keep it cool.
June 29, 2007 12:06:46 PM

Quote:
Spend more get more, spend less get less. Theres always a rule to the exception. I personily have never heard of a Raptor failure. Yes there pricey but they just last wether in a hot or cool cases. It seems that if you don't have fans on a Seagate there going to die sooner or later as I've read here. Of corse look at how much your paying for them, there very low priced. I'm not bashing Seagate, but I can only go with the "facts".


Just wait, and you'll see Raptor failures. They've not been out long enough to see a lot of failures from them.

Ok.... still waiting. I go by facts and experience and not hot air like some poeple seem to arive at. See when you work in a computer store (MicroCenter) for 5 years you tend know a little about computers! "I have had more returns on SeaGates than any other brand, often within one week to a few days." So lets get back on topic and stop attacking everyone post, you live a longer stress free life. Oh yeah I'm still waiting for a Raptor failure.
June 29, 2007 12:09:30 PM

Well, I don't think 3 years is long at all, in terms of hard drive statistics. Even the worst drive I ever had (a 405MB WD Caviar) lasted longer than 3 years, and many folks had issues with that. Many drives will last way into the 5 year range, so comparatively speaking, 3 years is still not cutting it.

As for cooling, I agree that drives need to be cool. I'm just saying that the statement "you must cool Seagate drives otherwise they'll die sooner or later" is wrong, as that's the case with any drive, regardless of mfr.

I have 42 Seagate 500 GB drives packed into a 4U enclosure with no problem at all. Honestly, there's only a couple of models I would avoid like the plague these days. They all seem to outlast the needs of the consumer.
June 29, 2007 12:12:12 PM

Quote:
The problem could be hard drive overheating. Heats kill hard drives.

Try to use something like HD Cooler from Antec. http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75011

or something similar.



Google did some research a while back and discovered that cooler hard drives actually fail less!

Check google if you don't believe me!

EDIT: IM COMPLETELY STUPID
June 29, 2007 12:12:33 PM

Quote:
Ok.... still waiting. I go by facts and experience and not hot air like some poeple seem to arive at. See when you work in a computer store (MicroCenter) for 5 years you tend know a little about computers! "I have had more returns on SeaGates than any other brand, often within one week to a few days." So lets get back on topic and stop attacking everyone post, you live a longer stress free life. Oh yeah I'm still waiting for a Raptor failure.


First, and foremost, I was not attacking anyone (at least not intending to do so). I was just stating my opinion on the topic at hand. :?

Are you going to give the Raptor failure a bit more time than an hour? Come on... The drives are still a bit young, compared to other models.

My comments are very on topic, so I'm not sure what you're driving at there.

You will have failures in any brand you choose. Just because your store gets more returns does not mean globally they are bad drives. So, again, your facts are slanted at what is happening locally in your area, and are not inclusive of everyone's results. I have 300 Seagates with little issues. So, please, show me where I'm using "hot air" to come to my conclusion.
June 29, 2007 1:19:32 PM

That just sounds like a bad run of luck mate. I have two Segates Barracudas, a 1 year old 250GB and an 8 year old 30GB, and neither one has ever giving me any trouble... Unless Seagate had a bad run or you're keeping it in an oven, I'd just chalk it up as bad luck.
June 29, 2007 1:22:45 PM

The Google report did not say that Cooler drives fail less often, they stated that in their study that cooler drives tended to fail less often.

They seem like the same statement, but they are not.

The study covered systems ranging from Servers to Desktops.

In general a servers will move rarely and almost never when on.
Additionally servers will have the cleanest and most stable power with line conditioners and clean power straight from a UPS.

These same servers will also run the hottest.

Desktop PCs will have dirty power, may be kicked/jostled/moved frequently and often even when powered on. These devices will also have frequent start/stops compared to servers. These devices will also generally run cooler than servers.

When looking at numbers you have to be careful about what conclusions you draw. They also did at that very high temps led to failure. What are "High Temps". They did not clarify. Also, even if you think you system is not warm, it does not mean there are not large pockets of heat .
June 29, 2007 1:47:16 PM

There is evidence to support both sides of the temperature related HD failure. I personally prefer to keep mine a little cooler so I put a fan on them.

I very recently had 2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 series 80 gig SATA 3Gb drives fail me. I had them in a RAID 0. I was downloading a new map for CSS when the compy just froze up solid. I tried everything I knew of to try and get the computer to reboot into windows but no dice. I figured out a few minutes later that the drives had just basically died though they were both still spinning. I went onto Seagate's website and filled out an order form (they dont call it an RMA anymore evidently). I sent the drives back together in one box packed in anti-static bags and lots of foam I ripped out of an old couch cushion. Seagate promptly turned around a sent me two new drives (they might be refurbs but no way of really telling...they had a label that had a seagreen colored border around the edge of the label whereas the drives I sent them did not...maybe indicating that theyre replacements or refurbs??) The total time without my drives was about two weeks but some of that is because I used regular ground to get the drives there and thats what they sent them back with also. Seagate did not waste any time themselves sending me new drives.

Any way I was smart enough to have a backup of my RAID0 and so I loaded that back on with Acronis and away I went...just like nothing ever happened (except I was feining to play some games for those two weeks so I took my video card out of my computer and put it in my wife's compy so I could play a bit...hehe). I think the little circuit boards on them failed but I am sure it was not due to heat issues as I have a Sonata II case and I keep the filter and fans clean. The 120mm HD fan I have pulling air across them right in the middle so they run cool enough. I have a storage compy that has 3 large Seagate SATA 3Gb drives in it and no troubles yet.
This is the first time I have had any trouble with Seagate drives and I have been using them for years.
June 29, 2007 8:14:26 PM

Quote:
Ok.... still waiting. I go by facts and experience and not hot air like some poeple seem to arive at. See when you work in a computer store (MicroCenter) for 5 years you tend know a little about computers! "I have had more returns on SeaGates than any other brand, often within one week to a few days." So lets get back on topic and stop attacking everyone post, you live a longer stress free life. Oh yeah I'm still waiting for a Raptor failure.


First, and foremost, I was not attacking anyone (at least not intending to do so). I was just stating my opinion on the topic at hand. :?

Are you going to give the Raptor failure a bit more time than an hour? .

Boy you really are are thick headed and it must seems you have to have the last word , so I'll just give it to you since your being inmature. "I just stated my opintion based on day to day facts and experience by me who not only sells to everyday people but companys around the US, from east to west coast." So please quit bothering me and just move on. Thank you.
June 29, 2007 11:36:30 PM

Quote:
Boy you really are are thick headed and it must seems you have to have the last word , so I'll just give it to you since your being inmature. "I just stated my opintion based on day to day facts and experience by me who not only sells to everyday people but companys around the US, from east to west coast." So please quit bothering me and just move on. Thank you.


See, now that was uncalled for. I expressed my opinion and didn't call you thick headed and immature. However, since you started it, "I'll just give it to you". You believe MicroCenter, actually you, is the center of all disk drives being shipped and returned, and that the few petabytes my team manages is obviously not the "real world", so this may not make any sense to you.

I'm sorry but our company has way too many drives that are Seagates to think you have the final word. How many drives would you say are returned in a month that are Seagates only? And how can you guarantee the customer hasn't done something really dumb with the drive when it is returned? MicroCenter will take them back, no questions asked, so you can't say nothing has happened to them.

Our little server room has 300 Seagates, and I'm not sure about the other 200 or so actual data centers, but considering they come from just a few manufacturers and are spread all over the planet, and are not retail drives, I figure we might have several thousand drives overall. Yeah, I must be day dreaming that our drives are not returning by the handfuls to their mfr. Quite frankly, we'd dump them if we had that much trouble. Too many petabytes to worry about having it lost to bad drives.

So yeah, I'm thick headed and immature to believe the facts in front of myself. Why should I believe what I see in front of me every day, when a sales rep says otherwise?
June 30, 2007 12:51:52 AM

Quote:
Hi,
I have a 320 GB 7200.10. Recently its header started to get stuck, and occassionally it won't be detected by my system. I have a PCP&C's 1KW Turbo Cool which surely has enough juice to power it. I just want to know if getting a WD's 320 GB would result in any performance shortfall compared to Seagate's.

Btw, this is the 2nd drive from Seagate (same model) that is causing me trouble.

sincerely,
Jd


One computer I was using as a file server several years ago killed four WD hard drives in less than a year, I finally decided there was something wrong with my computer so I used a different one with a better power supply and better airflow, ever since then my file server hasn't killed a hard drive for years *keeps fingers crossed*

I've never had a seagate drive fail on me, though I've had several WD drives fail.

Check your power supply, temperatures, and make sure they are screwed in tight to reduce any vibration. My guess would be that your power supply is bad/weak or they are overheating.
June 30, 2007 6:45:29 AM

Wow chest thumping and name calling all over simple hard drives.
Anecdotal personal experience aside, as has been stated if it stays cool it will last longer.

Most data centers are cool by construction, and have good power. So I would expect a hard drive to last longer in that type of environment. With the exception of poor quality drives at the onset.

What available research tells us, is that colling helps electronics to last longer.
Electromechanical devices such as hard drives are not an exception to the rule.

Yes shock, vibration, dirty mains, and heat all help in device failures.
Removing heat as a problem will help will add longevity to the life of a hard drive.

Some times a run of drives will be of lesser quality than the norm.
This has happened to all hard drive manufactures.
Of the drives that I have owned, the ones that have air flow from a fan across them, have served me better than ones that do not.

Anecdotal, superstition, fact, fiction or just luck, I leave to your own prejudices/experience.

I like Seagate, Fujitsu, Hitachi, and Western Digital in that order. This is always subject to change.

Good luck with whatever option that you pursue, and I wish you all well.
!