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System Builder Marathon, Sept. '09: $650 Gaming PC

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Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 6:01:03 AM

We kick off our third-quarter System Builder Marathon series with Paul's $650 gaming PC. Last time you asked for an all-AMD set of builds, and that's what we're giving you. As before, all three systems are going to be given away at the end of the series!

System Builder Marathon, Sept. '09: $650 Gaming PC : Read more

More about : system builder marathon sept 650 gaming

September 24, 2009 6:39:05 AM

A nicely done build, great work with overclocking on a stock cooler and an impeccable write up. Thanks for the great article Mr. Henningsen. AMD did a good job for a budget build, especially at stock clocks.
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9
September 24, 2009 6:39:59 AM

Great article! It's crazy to see all of that packed into a case for only ~$650.
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6
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Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 6:42:11 AM

I usually love reading these, but this time I just went directly to the comment section. There's no point in building or owning an amd box, they are too weak compared to modern Intel/Nvidia based systems.
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-30
September 24, 2009 6:44:55 AM

Wonderful. =D

What about the new $100 quad core athlon with no L3?
I know I like extra cores. Wonderful choice regardless.

I wonder what the quad core athlon with a 512MB 5850 (which would increase the budget though) will be like. Both cheap yet highend parts. =D

Nice to see what only a pocketful of cash can get you.
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13
September 24, 2009 6:51:40 AM

i know it wasn't available at the time but what about that 100 dollar quad core the athlon II x4?
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6
September 24, 2009 6:57:49 AM

Good article. I know you stated you were leaving the "unlocking" of the other cores to the winner of the contest, but were you guys able to unlock? If so, could you re-run those benchmarks? Again great article.
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1
September 24, 2009 7:17:42 AM

While "forcing" all AMD builds for a single marathon is a good idea, the timing is somewhat unfortunate.
An article which explores the performance and value of a complete Lynnfield build is something I (and many others, i'd dare to guess) would like to see but haven't yet, and this month's SBM is a missed opportunity in that regard.
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4
September 24, 2009 7:23:40 AM

That's a bitchin budget gamer system especially looking at the gaming benchmarks.Just this month I was thinking about building a similar type of system with the Phenom II X2 550BE.I was going to go with gigabytes 785G type board (just one graphics card slot) though however I may reconsider that especially with what you presented here although I was shooting for a much cheaper budget build (about $180 less than what you have),Newegg did have a gigabyte 785G board with the Phenom II X2 and $20 off in a combo deal until the end of this month.
I think that your choices were better than mine (more powerful).
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0
September 24, 2009 7:37:58 AM

Nice to see a cheap system still using a quality motherboard.
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2
September 24, 2009 8:01:06 AM

ChairFaceI usually love reading these, but this time I just went directly to the comment section. There's no point in building or owning an amd box, they are too weak compared to modern Intel/Nvidia based systems.


It's a budget build... I doubt that you could do any better with intel for this price, and seriously doubt that nvidia would be better.

Face it nvidia is not the best right now. I own a 8800GT 512, it was/is an excelent card but just because nvidia did something awesome doesn't mean that presently it's the best choice.

I really can't understand people who bias their choices based on the brand.
My advice: don't buy a brand buy quality/performance/cost, it will save you some money and you'll be better served...
Score
8
September 24, 2009 8:04:29 AM

gkay09Another alternate mobo - 785G ...they are availbale in AM3/AM2+ flavours and have SB 710, which can allow core unlocking -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... But not sure about their o/c potential though...

Yeah that was the one in the combo deal with the Phenom II X2 550 BE.
I was considering one Radeon 5850 card for it.I wonder how one Radeon 5850 compares to 2 Radeon 4850's CF'd.
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1
September 24, 2009 8:13:00 AM

jj463rdI wonder how one Radeon 5850 compares to 2 Radeon 4850's CF'd.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422...
The new big brother of the new card's shown here. Given the minor differences in speed and a few shaders missing I'm guessing this chart's difference between 2x4870 and 5870 account more or less to the difference between a 5850 and 2x4850 (assuming 1gb memory, 512 just isn't enough for 2500, and at 1600 u only need one 4850 512mb in most games).
In any event - consider the savings in power consumption when calculating cost. The new cards are so much cheaper to idle - and my 4870 idles most of the time.
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0
September 24, 2009 9:08:08 AM

Just a thought, would the Athlon II X4 be a better alternative if the user is geared towards productivity apps rather than games?
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0
September 24, 2009 9:14:52 AM

amnotanoobieJust a thought, would the Athlon II X4 be a better alternative if the user is geared towards productivity apps rather than games?

If a user is geared towards that, something with an i7 is a better choice. Just drop the graphics altogether (or get a 4650 or something).
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4
September 24, 2009 9:32:08 AM

All hopes go to the winner of this system on a successful unlock of the 2 disabled cores, after throwing on a nice after market hsf. Though I wonder how this build would have went with a single 4870 1gb instead of two 4850's and an after market cooler was used bench wise with it running x4 not x2. Winner might want to do some research if unsuccessful at unlocking with the stock bios after reading buyer comments on the mb which bios version to flash(latest isn't always best).
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0
September 24, 2009 9:59:44 AM

You know after all it would be very hard to out do this budget system build especially if the cores are unlocked.Dang
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1
September 24, 2009 10:15:45 AM

Can I enter the competition if I live outside of the United States?
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0
September 24, 2009 10:29:22 AM

That is an awesome budget build. Never thought you would be able to crossfire with a 650 budget.
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0
September 24, 2009 10:32:46 AM

People seem to forget that the parts were ordered for the SBM article about 5 weeks ago. In other words no Lynnfield (i'd like to see a $650 i5 system)or AthlonII x4. Paul also stated that the PhenomII x3 710 was out of stock when parts were ordered. By using a standard retailer they show what can be done by regular users (no free items from manufacturers)and since they don't use combo deals or rebates, Joe Average can usually save a bit more when they order.
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8
September 24, 2009 11:16:45 AM

Good article.
I would have considered the Athlon II X4 620 as an alternative. Same price. Might overclock some.
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0
September 24, 2009 11:26:56 AM

it would be possible to probably do an i5 system for under $650 but there'd be some sacrifices
i5-750 - $200
Mobo - $120
Memory - $70 (4GB. DDR3 or DDR2 is basically the same price now)
Videocard - $120 (4870)
Case - $50
PSU - $70
DVD - $30
Cooler - $35 (HDT-S1283)

Thats $705. Rebates take out about $20 out of that and IIRC ewiz had the i5-750 for $167 after cashback. Its possible to get it close to $650 but it'd be a lot of squeezing. Probably better to get a Phenom II or Athlon II in that price range. Save $50-100 on the the cpu and spread it to the other components.
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1
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 12:01:29 PM

"Still, given the massive increase in stock performance, easy overclocking, and even potential to unlock cores, the AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition made for a fine choice in accomplishing our goals. The September $650 gaming PC may have fallen short of sweeping all benchmarks, but it’s still the best stock-clocked machine to date at this budget, and one that set a whole new bar in overall gaming performance."
Excellent conclusion. As tired as I was sometimes of listening to all the AMD fanboi whinging, I hope a lot of them feel vindicated by this, especially since they would not have to limit themselves to the stock cooler.
If [latest-title] gaming isn't the focus, dropping a GPU makes room for the 720BE (at least) and a better cooler. It looks like AMD still has a firm grip on the budget market.
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2
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 12:29:31 PM

Nice budget build. Would have been better if a third party cpu heatsink had been used.
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0
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 12:36:28 PM

Yea, Samsung F3 HDD, pick up a single HD4890, change the PSU to an OCZ Modstream, and then get an AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE.
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0
September 24, 2009 12:40:29 PM

r0x0rCan I enter the competition if I live outside of the United States?

Probably not. You couldn't last time they held a competition at least.
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0
September 24, 2009 12:42:17 PM

TransmaniaconYea, Samsung F3 HDD, pick up a single HD4890, change the PSU to an OCZ Modstream, and then get an AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE.

Why in the world would you want to replace an okay psu with something less good?
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0
September 24, 2009 1:19:32 PM

The choices of CPU and graphics seem really good for this one. The only nitpick I have is that you could have squeezed some money out of the mobo or PSU to get a better CPU cooler.

Looking at the already very high performance of this build at $650 and the pointlessness of the latest $2500 builds, wouldn't it be a good idea to replace the highest tier with a lower cost "real cheapskate" build? I'd be interested in seeing what you can build on a 300-400$ budget. Alternatively, an Eyefinity build with 3 or 6 monitors could possibly use the 2500 budget without being a complete waste if you include the price of monitors.
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0
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 1:27:17 PM

grimjesterThe choices of CPU and graphics seem really good for this one. The only nitpick I have is that you could have squeezed some money out of the mobo or PSU to get a better CPU cooler.Looking at the already very high performance of this build at $650 and the pointlessness of the latest $2500 builds, wouldn't it be a good idea to replace the highest tier with a lower cost "real cheapskate" build? I'd be interested in seeing what you can build on a 300-400$ budget. Alternatively, an Eyefinity build with 3 or 6 monitors could possibly use the 2500 budget without being a complete waste if you include the price of monitors.


You can save a little money going with an OCZ PSU, and while I am a Corsair fan, the OCZ PSUs are decent choices. But I do agree that Antec PSU > OCZ PSU
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0
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 1:30:25 PM

^ I clicked the wrong quote button, should be in response to neiro
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0
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 1:30:32 PM

I kind of agree with grimjester, especially when considering that the budgets seem to be creeping upward. Maybe they should move back down again, say to $550, $1100, and $2000. Assuming ONE monitor, mouse, and keyboard also justifies having to include additional monitor prices if a multi-monitor setup is desired. That will likely rule it out, which makes sense, because I certainly wouldn't sacrifice other things for additional monitors; I'd buy them separately later.
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1
September 24, 2009 1:39:52 PM

TransmaniaconYou can save a little money going with an OCZ PSU, and while I am a Corsair fan, the OCZ PSUs are decent choices. But I do agree that Antec PSU > OCZ PSU

Used corsair psu's in all builds since mid 2007 when I shifted from antec. Not because corsair's better, but they're better value. They do seem to have that wierd noise generating when certain video modes are active though. Dunno why, but all corsair psu's I've seen do that.
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0
September 24, 2009 2:16:37 PM

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition? You can get the Phenom II x3 720 Black Edition combo with the GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P for $179, then overclock it on stock voltages to 3.2 GHz, 1.4V to 3.4 GHz, or 1.525V to 3.7 GHz.
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0
September 24, 2009 2:28:37 PM

El_CapitanAMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition? You can get the Phenom II x3 720 Black Edition combo with the GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P for $179, then overclock it on stock voltages to 3.2 GHz, 1.4V to 3.4 GHz, or 1.525V to 3.7 GHz.

keyword combo - that's cheating
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0
September 24, 2009 2:36:13 PM

jtt283I kind of agree with grimjester, especially when considering that the budgets seem to be creeping upward. Maybe they should move back down again, say to $550, $1100, and $2000
Another possibility would be to skip the fixed budgets and try to make great price/performance builds for "budget gamer", "best overall price/performance" and "highest performing that makes sense" categories. With 3-month intervals, you can't make apples-to-apples comparisons to the earlier SBMs anyway.

Assuming ONE monitor, mouse, and keyboard also justifies having to include additional monitor prices if a multi-monitor setup is desired. That will likely rule it out, which makes sense, because I certainly wouldn't sacrifice other things for additional monitors; I'd buy them separately later.

We'll have to see how Eyefinity works out and if Nvidia also goes for multimonitor setups. It may well be that 3 monitors is the de facto standard for a high-end gaming rig a few months from now. If 90% of games on near-maxed settings run 1920x1200@60+fps on the new generation GPUs, building for and testing on multimonitor setups will make sense.
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0
a b 4 Gaming
September 24, 2009 2:52:18 PM

grimjesterAnother possibility would be to skip the fixed budgets and try to make great price/performance builds for "budget gamer", "best overall price/performance" and "highest performing that makes sense" categories. With 3-month intervals, you can't make apples-to-apples comparisons to the earlier SBMs anyway.

I think ALL of the SBM builds are going for best performance/price. I also don't think they're trying to do apples to apples comparisons, but are trying to show how much bang/buck (i.e. technology) has improved from one build to the next.
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1
September 24, 2009 3:01:35 PM

JohnnyLuckyNice budget build. Would have been better if a third party cpu heatsink had been used.


I'm actually glad he used the stock cooler. I'm sure an extra $30-$40 would have gotten you 200-300MHz as mentioned in the article. However, that would still not be the best bang for buck. If they had an extra $30, he would have stepped up to the 720, which would have been a better overall chip if more money was available. I'd much rather have a X3 running at 3.4ish than a X2 running at 3.7ish personally.
Score
3
September 24, 2009 4:45:59 PM

Quote:
it seems the pricier Phenom II dual-core has its hands full competing with the Pentium E5200 on a clock-for-clock basis--never mind if both were pushed to their maximum potential. Dethroning the E5200 in bang-for-buck overclocking performance with a Phenom II will probably have to be done with more than two processing cores


Price of intel chips that are faster:
E5200 $67.99
E5300 $69.99
E6300 $82.99
E5400 $89.99
E6500 $92.99

SBM reviews were always about best for the price at the time. AMD is not best for the price at the time right now. I know Tom's felt like they had to satisfy the AMD fanboys, but it's funny how all the comments are about how great this system is when in reality Intel has 5 chips cheaper that will out perform. Maybe this wasn't the best time to showcase dual graphics at this level and reduce overall price a little or was it planned to give AMD at least some kind of chance.

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-6
September 24, 2009 5:01:33 PM

Those are pretty impressive results. Not so much in the synthetics, but the games are amazing for the price.
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3
September 24, 2009 5:06:29 PM

^ +1

It's true: SBM can't do right by anyone it seems, because everyone has their favorite brands. Last time, the AMD fans got butt-hurt over the Intel chip, and now the Intel guys are complaining about missed opportunity to use an i5 (even though they were not released when these parts were ordered). Yeah, they could have used an after market HSF, but they didn't have the money. Yeah, they could have used combos and rebates and made a better system, but SBM doesn't use sale prices so that anybody could, in theory, build the same thing for the same price a week or two later- sale or no sale.
Telling them they could have gotten something cheaper and better a month later is the job of Captain Obvious, everyone. Tech prices go up and down, mostly down and that's just how it is. In the time that I ordered and assembled my last rig a month ago, the price of my mobo went down, RAM and VGA went up, and by CPU and PSU stayed pretty much the same. Just gotta deal with it.
Score
5
September 24, 2009 5:51:27 PM

I'm really glad that you guys finally did an AMD build, the only issue I noticed is that despite most of the time people complaining that you're using the latest Catalyst drivers, I've found that across the board the Catalyst 9.9 hurt 4850 performance compared to 9.8, I was just wondering if you tried 9.8 vs. 9.9 and saw the same issues.
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1
September 24, 2009 5:54:30 PM

AT LEAST NOBODY BUYS SOUND CARDS ANYMORE.

AMD 720BE be Better, Case & PS @ $50 for 650 w with all chorddss you need is better. ide optical or ide to sata converter be better 7 1 tb seagate 7200.12 be better. Free microsoft enterpricse 7 64 bit helpful.

Signed:p HYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART von DRASHEK M.D.
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-6
Anonymous
September 24, 2009 6:34:03 PM

Nice build, good choices throughout and well presented.

It is just a shame that here in the UK, pricing would have led its self to E7300, aftermarket Artic cooling, Foxcon bloodrage x48 and the rest of the build as is, and saving enough for a slightly better case.
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0
September 24, 2009 6:53:09 PM

Hey sorry for the double post, I can't seem to find an edit button... but I meant to say "people always complaining you're NOT using the latest catalyst drivers"; just for clarification.
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0
September 24, 2009 6:56:13 PM

Wonder when AMD is going to drop prices on the Phenom II processors? I need a 955 or 965 for my Linux box.
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0
September 24, 2009 8:26:15 PM

I got 2 4850 OC in crossfire that I bought for 165$ back in june... I am still impress by how powerful these cards are for the price.

It's about 10% slower than 2 4870 and it's great even at 1080p.

Score
1
September 24, 2009 8:31:09 PM

omgpwntimeI'm really glad that you guys finally did an AMD build, the only issue I noticed is that despite most of the time people complaining that you're using the latest Catalyst drivers, I've found that across the board the Catalyst 9.9 hurt 4850 performance compared to 9.8, I was just wondering if you tried 9.8 vs. 9.9 and saw the same issues.


Seriously, there is no difference at all. I think it depends on the games you are playing. For exemple, RE5 with catalyst 9.9 can use crossfire settings. I was happy to see my rig rendering the game near 150fps at peak and an average of 125 fps... Way more than most single card and single GPU settings.
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0
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