Should I upgrade? (Socket 939)

[kingoftherings]

I have an Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice Socket 939) in a system I built in December, and I've noticed that CPUs are becoming increasingly harder to find for this socket, so I decided now would be the best time to upgrade if ever. I regret not paying the extra $20 for AM2.

My CPU is 2.0ghz (o/c'ed to 2.4ghz), and the only Athlon 64 X2 processor I can find on Newegg is a 3800+ @ 2.0ghz for $79.99. Would it really be worth $80 to get dual core? Will I really notice a difference? Or should I save my money for a new system later on?

I do some gaming, so will I notice a difference in some games? Even on a Geforce 7600GS?

Oh, and I assume the CPU cooler that came with my 3200+ is the same thing that would come with an X2 correct?

 

[turpit]

Save your money for later on, unless you can find a really good deal. Not very likely with 939, unless you want to risk buying used on Ebay

Right now, newegg has 939 single core 4000s for $59 US

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103037&ATT=19-103-037&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

and Opty 165 duals for $99 - should be good for OCing if your mobo will take it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103588&ATT=19-103-588&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

Spartan (Ive used them a few times before has 1 939 X2 4400 left, but for what it costs, you could buy a new AM2 X2 4600, mobo, 2gig of 800mhz ram and a cheap video card

http://www.spartantech.com/product.asp?PID=AMDA64X2-4400CDBOX&m1=pg

 

[kingoftherings]

Thank you Turpit.

That Athlon 4000+ is looking attractive for $59. The problem being that its only a single core.

As for the Opteron 165, my motherboard can take some overclocking, but I really cheaped out on the memory, and I had to downclock it just to get my 3200+ to 2.4ghz. I can't believe I spent $93 on that 1gb stick of RAM in December.

 

[sirheck]

I agree with turpit. try and go for a dualcore s939 or the 4000 single core.

The sandy core amds are among the fastest single cores out there.

 

[Cybercraig]

If it's a Via chipset MB forget it. If it's a NF-4 then maybe. This is not really a platform to expand on. It's time has come and gone!

 

[Wisecracker]

You would have to have really bad Kharma, a pos mobo and dog shat RAM to not get a decent OC from a 939 Opty . . .

And you didn't miss a whole lot with AM2 . . .

 

[rockyjohn]

In addition to the Opteron 165, newegg has the 170, 175, and 180. I think you should consider them as well and pick the performance that fist your budget.
Since you just purchsed your pc in December, I assume you wish to keep it for awhile so I would try to invest in as fast a processor as you can afford - I am guessing you might be using it for several years.

 

[kingoftherings]

Cybercraig- I have Nforce 4.

Wise Cracker- I have extremely bad RAM, to get my 3200+ to 2.4ghz, I had to down clock the RAM to keep my system stable.

 

[Wisecracker]

Cybercraig- I have Nforce 4.

Wise Cracker- I have extremely bad RAM, to get my 3200+ to 2.4ghz, I had to down clock the RAM to keep my system stable.

As long as the RAM freq does not exceed 200(x2)mhz - you'll be good to go. Loosen up those timings. Dialing back the ram is common practice when you raise the cpu freq and clock to the moon.

I'm thinkin' 2.8ghz with a $115 Opty 170 . . .

 

[kingoftherings]

In addition to the Opteron 165, newegg has the 170, 175, and 180. I think you should consider them as well and pick the performance that fist your budget.
Since you just purchsed your pc in December, I assume you wish to keep it for awhile so I would try to invest in as fast a processor as you can afford - I am guessing you might be using it for several years.

I'm interested in an Opteron now.

I assume they work just fine for gaming? I'm sure a server class processor would play games just fine, and being dual core, even better than what I have now.

 

[kingoftherings]

And you didn't miss a whole lot with AM2 . . .

I know I didn't miss a lot, but it would be much nicer being able to find a processor I could upgrade to. Their X2 selection is much larger than that of Socket 939. I think it was kinda lame of AMD to make a whole new socket just for DDR2 support, and abandon 939.

 

[turpit]

Cybercraig- I have Nforce 4.

Wise Cracker- I have extremely bad RAM, to get my 3200+ to 2.4ghz, I had to down clock the RAM to keep my system stable.

As long as the RAM freq does not exceed 200(x2)mhz - you'll be good to go. Loosen up those timings. Dialing back the ram is common practice when you raise the cpu freq and clock to the moon.

I'm thinkin' 2.8ghz with a $115 Opty 170 . . .

Except low priced high end X2s

 

[Wisecracker]

Make sure you drop the PCIe freq back to 100 as you crank up the cpu freq.

When you are comfortable with your 50% overclock you can always tighten things up a bit.

The stock Opty HSF is pretty cool - copper base with aluminum fins, and copper heat pipes thru it . . .

 

[kingoftherings]

I didn't know they came with different Heatsinks than Athlons! :O
Good thing Newegg only sells the 'Processor in a Box' for Opterons because I never would have known.

For the Memory timings, higher numbers will make it more stable correct?

 

[Insane_Maniac]

If you have the money, try going for a AM2 based rig. DDR memory is actually becoming more expensive than DDR2 memory. Also added in the AM2 based rigs will possibly give you an even better price versus the Socket 939. The price premium for trying to opt for the best X2 on the 939 system is not worth the trouble. But if you can save your money, try going for a Core 2 system.

 

[Wisecracker]

I didn't know they came with different Heatsinks than Athlons! :O
Good thing Newegg only sells the 'Processor in a Box' for Opterons because I never would have known.

For the Memory timings, higher numbers will make it more stable correct?

Download CPUz to monitor, evaluate and validate your system settings. Some folks like to use Speedfan to monitor system temps and also install and run Stability / Burn-in programs.

Open your favorite spreadsheet program and start doing a little math. Let's say you decide to purchase an Opty 170 and your ultimate goal is to do a 50% overclock to 3 ghz.

Make columns on your spreadsheet reflecting the BIOS settings of your mainboard that you will need to massage. CPU freq, multiplier, HT setting, PCIe freq, RAM freq, timings . . .

With a 10x multiplier you would need a 300 fsb (50% increase). The same increase applies to your RAM freq. A 50% increase on 133 would be 200 . . .

Using CPUz I like to check the spd settings of the RAM and loosen the timings one notch above them. You can tighten them up after you reach your OC goal.

The reason I suggest the spreadsheet is that I'm a slow OC'er. I list a roadmap of steps to reach my OC goal. I like to OC in 10-15% incremental steps and like to **burn-in** the system at that rate before proceeding to the next level. I feel like this leads to better stability, overall higher OC's and system longevity. I'm certain others will disagree . . .

The most important thing is to be patient.

 

[ethel]

Opteron 165 / 170 all the way.

I would advise spending a few extra quid on the 170 as you will be relying on the capabilities of your board less to overlock it (it has a lower multiplier).

 

[NUFC987]

I assume they work just fine for gaming? I'm sure a server class processor would play games just fine, and being dual core, even better than what I have now.

i dont mean to hijack, but can someone confirm this? that opty's run games just as good. i am in a similar situation (with a 3800+, 6600 256MB, on 939 nforce 4 board). and if i can get this cpu and save money instead of a full upgrade that would be fantastic.

 

[jitpublisher]

The only difference in the Opterons and the X2's is the Opertons are binned higher, in other words the chips that test the very highest from a lot are sold as Opterons, the rest are sold as X2's.

 

[jitpublisher]

The heatsink and fan that comes with the X2 processor is significantly more substantial (larger) than the heatsink on your 3200+.

 

[Craxbax]

Get the lowest cost 939 you can find and overclock it for now. Upgrade to a newer platform later when you can. Your GPU will better determine your gaming experience. Your present one is the weakest part of your system.
X2 that is!

 

[HA_ZEE]

The opteron chips are slightly higher quality for commercial use. The can usually get higher overclocks with less voltage. It is the way to go especially if you want to overclock. They are a plug in upgrade for any 939 socket NF4 system.

 

[double_helix]

Actually had a AMD64 3000+ Winchester core on a computer that I built over 2 years ago. Went with an Opteron 180 s939, which runs at a nice 2.4Ghz stock. I'll tell ya' that it was definately worth the upgrade as I can see this lasting me another year or two!

My only delima now is, while playing some games, I actually reached 800mb RAM and watched the pagefile get kicked in! So I'm debating on getting 2 gigs of RAM, but like others said DDR400 is actually getting more expensive - its still within reason. Might look at DDR500 for some overclocking potential.

Saw some G.Skill 2gig 1024x2 sticks of DDR400 for $115 off NewEgg...

And the difference? I heard that the X2 actually has 1 HTT, while the Opteron contains 3 HTTs along with two additional pipeline stages to increase the throughput and frequency scalability (overclock)

 

[Bungsta]

Another difference... The opteron cores have 1mb cache per core, instead of the 512kb you find on the x2 cores.

I upgraded from a 3500+ to an opteron 165, and overclocked it to 2.7ghz quite easily (50% overclock). I can attest to the fact that it made a quick system even faster, nothing seems to bog it down. I have 2 gigs of DDR500 and a Raptor hard drive, so that helps too. Even so, I'm glad I paid the $155 I paid for the opty 165. Yes it also has a pretty nice heatsink, for an OEM anyways. I didn't use it since I already have a copper zalman but it was the nicest OEM heatsink I've ever seen, heatpipes and all.

If you spend a couple minutes with a calculator, you can figure out what ratio you need your RAM at to keep it running full speed while getting a good overclock. If you lower your RAM speed, but raise your FSB, you're actually raising your RAM up again also. With a little tuning you can overclock your cpu substantially while keeping your RAM at or around stock clocks. You don't even need overclocking RAM, I just got it for the psychological overclock it has on my brain . Plus it works nicely with the 50% overclock I had planned for my opty.

 

[easyg]

And you didn't miss a whole lot with AM2 . . .

I know I didn't miss a lot, but it would be much nicer being able to find a processor I could upgrade to. Their X2 selection is much larger than that of Socket 939. I think it was kinda lame of AMD to make a whole new socket just for DDR2 support, and abandon 939.

It was lame. The odd thing about it was the timing. My memory is a little hazy, but didn't support for 939 drop right around the time C2D came out? It was almost like AMD helped Intel out by pulling the rug out from its own platform base. I think that made the transition to LGA 775 a lot easier for some people (I know it did for me).