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help! 2nd 8800gts 320 same problem!

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June 29, 2007 12:13:28 AM

I posted about a month ago that i had purchased an xfx 8800gts 320m pcie card to put in my a8n32 fx-60 with a corsair 520hx system and i was recieving the loud whirring noise that is a sign the card is not recieving enough power...well i went through the xfx tech people and they decided that the card was probably bad since my system should handle it just fine and sent me a brand new pre-tested card that i recieved yesterday. Well i'm getting the exact same problem... :/  i really want this card to work since i paid for it over 2 months ago and still havent even seen it post.

My exact system specs are

Case: Lian Li PC60b
MB: Asus A8n32-sli Deluxe
Memory: ADATA 3200 (or something, its good 400ddr memory)
PSU: Corsair 520HX (seasonic 3 12v rails with 30amps)
Cooler: Vigor Gaming Moonsoon II (tec cooler, tried the system with it in and out)
HDs: 1 maxtor sata and 1 samsung ide
USB: Logitec g15 and a logitech mx1000 laser mouse
Monitor: Blackwill 19" 1600x1200
CPU: Fx-60 (standard clock, used to be 3.2 but i want this card to work)

The graphics card i've been using is a Gainward 6600gt that works fine, when i plug in the 8800gts and the 6pin pcie plug into it, the system does not post and the loud whirring noise occurs from the card, after a couple of seconds my motherboard does the 1 long 3 short beeps telling me the video card is bad...but this is a pre-tested good card so it's gotta be something else. Any suggestions!?!? I've tried reseating the card and tried both pcie plugs, both pcie slots and even unplugged everything but the card trying to atleast get the system to POST.
June 29, 2007 12:59:40 AM

Sounds like PSU dood.

If u can, plug the card into a sys with PLENTY of pwr, 600w plus, pref a new sys that u know works with a card like that.

Sometimes a psu can work fine exept for one or two sets of plugs. Ran into that prob YEARS ago, thought my hdd died, spent hours fking around. Once i figured it out, i used a different hdd pwr cable, and the psu continued working fine until i retired the sys a few years later.
June 29, 2007 1:20:57 AM

take out any add in sound cards or modems and disconnect the power from all your drives and see if it will post. if it does you know for sure it the ps although even if it doesn't post it still could be and probably is your ps but worth a shot anyway. good luck and let us know how it goes.
Related resources
June 29, 2007 1:30:38 AM

i've removed everything that i can possibly remove, just the Motherboard and the graphics card in and still nothing :/  It could be the psu i guess but its from a reputable company and it supposively meets the requirements...i just would hate to waste a couple of hundred for something that doesnt fix it
June 29, 2007 1:49:47 AM

that psu is barely the need to push a 8800GTS...
go buy a new psu seriously.. if some guy is lucky to run one in your psu doesn't exactly mean yours will.
June 29, 2007 2:38:49 AM

I agree with the rest a new psu is in order but there is one test that may help for now.
Make sure that the 8800 is on the highest 12v rail all alone and use the other rails for the other bits that need it. If it still fails get a new psu....

good luck
June 29, 2007 2:58:49 AM

Agreed, change out the PSU, I didn't see anywhere in the post where you mentioned how old, and used, the current PSU is. Over time the performance on PSU degrades, honestly, give it a shot, it is easier than changing out the MoBo, and perhaps less costly?
June 29, 2007 3:35:44 AM

How come any harware problem is always answered, duuuudddee you need a new power supply. What a heap of garbage.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/391/9/

Total system draw, 340 watts. Add a few for that tec cooler and your still under 450. Try to come up with an original solution and not some regurgitated cr@p.

Mac; uninstal old drivers, use driver cleaner, get new drivers from nvidia. If that doesnt work id be looking at my motherboard drivers, then the bios settings. In my limited experience those sli boards give more grief than a single slot board.
June 29, 2007 3:46:00 AM

the psu is less then a month old :/  as is the MB i bought them both 2 weeks after i bought the card because i was told it was my old PSU and MB and to buy the one's i got for it to work....so it's gotta be something else i just can't figure it out and neither can the xfx ppl unless the new 'pre-tested' card is bad too
June 29, 2007 11:00:09 AM

Quote:
How come any harware problem is always answered, duuuudddee you need a new power supply. What a heap of garbage.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/391/9/

Total system draw, 340 watts. Add a few for that tec cooler and your still under 450. Try to come up with an original solution and not some regurgitated cr@p.

Mac; uninstal old drivers, use driver cleaner, get new drivers from nvidia. If that doesnt work id be looking at my motherboard drivers, then the bios settings. In my limited experience those sli boards give more grief than a single slot board.


Nice quote newb. 8O

I did the calculations here and came up with a draw of 481W :wink:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

So next time your backwards math is done keep it to yourself. :tongue:

Also, depending on the quality of the PSU it may not really be able to supply the power it is rated at. In this case the OP has a quality PSU, see the link below, but if he had something like an APEX I would say he isn't getting anywhere near the power it is stating it can put out. So in the end, you can't always take things at face value when it comes to PSUs

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10...

Beyond this, depending on the age of the PSU it could be worn down, bottom line, an overall performance degradation of 20% over two years running at moderate loads is not uncommon. So given any PSU at 550W, -20% for aging, and the final output is 440W, but the draw requirements above it would not work, so without knowing the age of the PSU, or the load conditions over time, it is really hard to say for sure!

To be honest, how can any one of us know without physically testing the PSU, one of the rails could be bad, or some of the parts are running less then ideal inside the PSU, ever heard of DOA.

In the end PSU problems are hard to detect from an operational perspective. If the OP has the tools and understanding to go ahead and test each rail then I suggest he do so before buying a new PSU.

Honestly, to come in with your post and rather ignorant comment really wasn't needed. I agree it isn't a bad idea to try reloading the drivers, it is a cheap solution to the problem if it works, but really, keep your extra comments to yourself.
June 29, 2007 2:46:19 PM

Nicely done calculation. The calculator said so so it must be true. Bet you did real well in math class too. "Its not wrong, the calculator gave me the solution."

The calculator in that link is anything but transparent. All calculations are hidden as well as the amperage draws used in those calculations.

The review gives the total power drawn by an x6800 combined with either a 8800gts or 8800gtx. To me taking a reading from the power supply is a hell of a lot more reliable than what you did.

Case in point. My 420 watt power supply is 2 years old. It has been running my x2 3800 clocked to 2.6 and my more recently purchased 8800gts for a while now. There goes your bull$hit 481 watt theory.

P.S. Oh and nice opener. I'll say it again, come up with something original.
June 29, 2007 3:31:10 PM

may be fun to bicker back and forth and such, but my PS is brand new, i've tested the pcie plugs with a multimeter and am getting 12vs on all 3 rails. I don't know what else i can do to test the PSU to make sure it's working properly besides checking the plugs. I have a fluke 787 and am an industrial electrician by trade, but all i know is high voltage AC, never played with dc stuff. If anyone could tell me what i'd need to test it please do.
June 29, 2007 3:54:31 PM

Perhaps you should connect a 2 Gigawat PSU?!? LOL
People exagerate.

Did you plug in the MOLEX PLUG on the MOBO? It's there to give more power to the graphic card. I think it's calloed an EZPLUG.

*edit

Also try to connect your olg GPU and downclock your FX60 (it uses a lot of power) to something like 1 GHz with 1.1v (or even lower) then you should have enough power... but I dont think this will resolve the problem.
June 29, 2007 4:18:13 PM

yah i have the ezplug in, and the computer works fine with my old gfx card in, even overclocked. It's what i'm using right now as a matter of fact. I closely examined the 8800 vs my 6600 and it looks like the little tabs on the front stick down further then my 6600, yah know the tabs on the other side of where you screw it into the case. I'm debating on ripping my board out and seeing if i can get it work not in a case, maybe its bottoming out or something when i try to push it all the way in. Anyone have any experience with this?
June 29, 2007 4:24:01 PM

Try an connect a different cabe to the EZ PLUG. The PSU rails can be split between the cables.
June 29, 2007 4:34:53 PM

As mentioned by NaDa, you have plugged THREE power cables int motherboard :?: Did you measure the 12V value at all plugs that are in use :?: Have you tried the 8800 in both slots :?: Could you test the card in a friends system, or ask a local computer store to test the card :!:

Mike.
June 29, 2007 4:52:00 PM

the card is telling you it needs more power"i was recieving the loud whirring noise that is a sign the card is not recieving enough power". even oc'd the 6600 gt won't have near the same power reqiurements(too tired to look it up just now)as the 8800 gts. the power supply you have should run your sytem depending on the number of drives cards and usb powered devices you have in your system so my thought and i think the only reasonable thought is a power supply problem. so you can A. exchange your power supply B. purchase a new power supply from some where you can return it with no questions asked (best buy i think within 15 or .30 days) and test it. i'd go with at least 600-650 watt

Xabbo unless i'm mistaken the error he recieives happens as soon as the system is powered on before windows even loads.

Macadami feel free to correct me if i'm wrong though and please keep us informed best luck
June 29, 2007 5:13:01 PM

Now that you mention it, when i first installed my 8800 i did have a problem with the tabs binding and not allowing the card to seat properly. You could try taking everything out of the case and doing a bench install. Worth a shot anyways.
June 29, 2007 5:43:10 PM

Ok, I just read through the whole thread before replying. First, I think you should have about 600wt for the PSU. The one you have will work, but may not have quite enough power on startup when the load is heavy. Then again, it might work fine, but its really on the edge of being adequate.

That said, I have a setup very similar to yours, same mobo, overclocked FX60, two hard drives, 2 gig of ram, etc. I installed a 8800 GTS 640 a few weeks ago and ran into some initial problems. First off, I'd suggest trying the second PCI-e slot, in case the first one has a problem. That occurred in one ASUS A8n32SLI Deluxe mobo that I have in one of my other computers. I RMA'd it and ASUS fixed the problem. So the mobo is suspect, as well as the PSU.

Next, check with the Nvidia website. It seems their 8800 series cards have some problems with AMD K7 and K8 chips. Instead of fixing their drivers, they have a work around that involves changing the registry. I got the 8800 GTS to work, but it still won't allow me to use Ntune without an instant lockup. I have to use Rivatuner instead.
June 29, 2007 5:45:49 PM

I think you need to unplug the ez-plug. I had a similar problem when I had both the molex (ez-plug)connector that is supposed to give power to the graphics card from the MB and the 6 pin pci-e. Unplug the molex connector and leave the 6pin pci-e connector and see what happens.
July 1, 2007 6:42:10 PM

OOHH How I love PSU Issues. The PSU could test find and still not be good. If you were Realllllly Reallllly Board you could always make a 6pin adapter that has a Multimeter in the mix and monitor the current draw to your card.. That would tell you if your getting enough of the precious Juice.

I have seen cheep 700watt PSU not even be able to handle a single 8800 and Really good 500's push it like a champ.

Remember garbage in garbage out.. Good Luck
July 1, 2007 7:26:19 PM

I'm barely running 500 watts with my ultra p/s (cough only $49) no problems with my GTS and I've overclocked it to the moon .. interesting
July 1, 2007 7:31:08 PM

People would freak if they heard what I connected on a 200W PSU.
It's got 13A on a 12V rail.
It's running a preshot with an ti4200 perfectly!
a b ) Power supply
July 1, 2007 8:44:16 PM

To properly check a PSU. You need an O'scope and a load curcuit. A multimeter will tell you the average DC output, but not the quality, ie ripple component. quit often a leaky, or poor quality Capacitor read ok using a mulitmeter, but have excessive ripple. This ripple, on a switching PS approx 20 KHz ( to 40KHz). My fluke meter (Md 85 III) will only measure up 10 A. Good for measuring the AC input Current, But not the 12 V rails. Godd gall on start up current. Inital surge current can be 2 to 5 times (10 to 100 millisecond), should not be a problem unless it triggers an over current protection.

The PSU is rated @ 18 A on all three 12 V rails, However the sum of the three rails cannot be greater than 40 A (ie 18A - 16 A -6 A)

Do not own an 8800, so this is just a question, could this not be as simple as a lousy/defective fan on the 8800; and can you disable it, just long enough to confirm / rule the fan out.
a b ) Power supply
July 1, 2007 8:46:03 PM

good Knowlege of electronics - poor spelling
July 2, 2007 3:18:16 AM

LOL Yes Oscope in a percfect world.. (I want one but alas do not have one I am starting the Get m3kt3k Donation for an Oscope fund. ANy Takers) I wasent thinking DC Voltage so much as simply measuring the current that the card is actually drawing, and seeing if it is giving you the power that the card actually needs..

BTW does anyone know the actual realworld power req's for the 8800 Series. I know alot of the venders say 500watt+ but they are assuming other factors. I wonder what it would be say if you built a system for a specific 3dTask. Say a kiosk that runs a Solidstate HD with a midlevel processor where your just using a lowend 8600 (or something similar)

I also ask for I have seen Cheap PSU's that people bring into myshop and can't understand why there systems doesent work with the 500Watt PSU but you look at the side and the 12V Rail is only 18Amps (saw one that was 15)
a b ) Power supply
July 2, 2007 3:19:19 PM

I know very few individuals have an oscope - my portable digital o'scope cost more than most spend on a computer. my response was geared toward the op's question of testing the PS. A voltmeter will not show excessive ripple; therefor, If the PS can not be ruled out the only viable option is to replace with a known good PS that can power the system.

Most, not all multimeters are fused at 10A for current measurements. A few go up to 20A. However, to measure the 12 V rail it requires (1) cutting the +12 V line or (2) using a modified test cable with the +12 V line cut. The meter has to be placed in series. Normally if the current drain excceds the PS capability, the output voltage is normally reduced.

Took a quick look at some maniffactures web sites - could not find a listing for what their cards really draw.
July 2, 2007 4:34:46 PM

I have a generic 400W PSU with 30A combined on the +12V rails (2 optical drives, 2 hard drives, Athlon64, 2GB ram, 8800GTS640) and that runs fine
July 2, 2007 9:13:56 PM

Quote:
I know very few individuals have an oscope - my portable digital o'scope cost more than most spend on a computer. my response was geared toward the op's question of testing the PS. A voltmeter will not show excessive ripple; therefor, If the PS can not be ruled out the only viable option is to replace with a known good PS that can power the system.

Most, not all multimeters are fused at 10A for current measurements. A few go up to 20A. However, to measure the 12 V rail it requires (1) cutting the +12 V line or (2) using a modified test cable with the +12 V line cut. The meter has to be placed in series. Normally if the current drain excceds the PS capability, the output voltage is normally reduced.

Took a quick look at some maniffactures web sites - could not find a listing for what their cards really draw.


From what I am figuring you could always set up a match load circuit to draw the current (Max Power on the load circuit), if I am correct all he would need to know is what the PSUs internal resistance is, pick up a basic resistor at Radio shack, run that inline (Series) with the DMM, set the reading to current, and than see if the measurement matches the calculated value. Figure 12V over something like a 50 Ohm resistor, assuming that is matching to the PSUs internal resistance, should be something like 240mA. Again, assuming it is functioning properly. But this is more trouble than it is worth, I would just pick up a new PSU at BBs and see if it fixes the problem, if it does, then no worries, if not, return the PSU, and you rule it out. Honestly, the amount of time, labor, and effort spent on the problem would exceed any 15% restocking fee they could have at BBs, if they hit you with it. If the policy is still the same all you have to do is tell them the part was incompatible and they will not charge you a restocking fee.
a b ) Power supply
July 2, 2007 10:09:11 PM

My point exactly - It is much simplier TO replace the suspect PSU.

And no, macthing input/ouput resistance is when max power is delievered to a load (P=IE). To check a 12v/18 Amp rail you would need to place a 0.67 ohm, 216 Watt resitor across the rail - not your everday Radio Shack varity. You could use a 12v 200 watt light bulb, Or if your wife/girlfriend does not mind giving up the toaster, you could cut the heating element out and try that.
a c 80 ) Power supply
July 3, 2007 12:01:15 AM

Sounds to me like your board is not happy with 8800's in general. Is the bios up to date? Have you reset it?

There is no way for you to not have enough power. those cards take less then Ati's X1900's did. and i ran my system with a X1900xt on a 450 SP 2.0 psu for a long time with no probs. The power @ the wall was about 440. with a estimate of 80%(its more like 70-75) efficiency my PSU was only feeding the machine around 350watts on ALL rails combined. Even with you cooler and FX60 i doubt you are going to over draw that PSU.

Try it in a friends computer if you can to be sure it works. then go from there.

OHH and EDIT

those PSU's just have ONE rail. and multiple Virtual rails(as do many multi rail psu's). so overloading one does not happen with out excessive abuse
July 3, 2007 11:54:57 AM

Quote:
My point exactly - It is much simplier TO replace the suspect PSU.

And no, macthing input/ouput resistance is when max power is delievered to a load (P=IE). To check a 12v/18 Amp rail you would need to place a 0.67 ohm, 216 Watt resitor across the rail - not your everday Radio Shack varity. You could use a 12v 200 watt light bulb, Or if your wife/girlfriend does not mind giving up the toaster, you could cut the heating element out and try that.


I believe that is what I said, a match load circuit would supply max power, this would allow him to test if the system was delievering the actual power it was rated for. I just wasn't sure what the internal resistance was, if you are correct at it is .67ohms then i agree, i do not recall seeing anything like that at radio shack, at least that can handle 216W.

Quote:
From what I am figuring you could always set up a match load circuit to draw the current (Max Power on the load circuit), if I am correct all he would need to know is what the PSUs internal resistance is
!