Please please can i have expert help!! :(

My computer has been fine for over a year - worked like a dream. Until yesterday when I shut down Windows as normal. Now, it won't turn back on! Here are the specs

Asus P5b wifi deluxe
core 2 duo e6600 @ 3.15ghz
2gb Geil PC6400 Ultra
Hiper Type R 580W PSU
WD Raptor 75Gb
SB X-Fi ExtremeMusic
Geforce 8800 GTS 640Mb

I tried clearing the CMOS to no avail. When I turn off the switch on the power supply and back on again the light on the switch comes on so I know there is power there. Also I can see that the blue light on the motherboard is lit. When I press the power switch on the case, the fans start to spin for less than a second then immediately turn off. If I press the power switch again they won't do this until I turn off the power supply and turn it back on again. Weird.

Please can anybody help?
I would really appreciate it.
46 answers Last reply
More about please expert help
  1. Do you have another PSU to test your computer with? My first thought is that the PSU died. If you have/can find one, try it. Next it might be the motherboard.
  2. Quote:
    My computer has been fine for over a year - worked like a dream. Until yesterday when I shut down Windows as normal. Now, it won't turn back on! Here are the specs

    Asus P5b wifi deluxe
    core 2 duo e6600 @ 3.15ghz
    2gb Geil PC6400 Ultra
    Hiper Type R 580W PSU
    WD Raptor 75Gb
    SB X-Fi ExtremeMusic
    Geforce 8800 GTS 640Mb

    I tried clearing the CMOS to no avail. When I turn off the switch on the power supply and back on again the light on the switch comes on so I know there is power there. Also I can see that the blue light on the motherboard is lit. When I press the power switch on the case, the fans start to spin for less than a second then immediately turn off. If I press the power switch again they won't do this until I turn off the power supply and turn it back on again. Weird.

    Please can anybody help?
    I would really appreciate it.


    Quote:
    Please can anybody help?
    I would really appreciate it.


    I would look to the MB or PSU as having failed, but it could be any number of things causing the problem. You are going to need spare parts to test your system's components with. It can cost a lot of money to just start replacing things. Having another working system to swap out your hardware with and test is your best option. MB would be my best guess from what you said.
  3. I would check if any capacitor on the mobo leaked. I would also take apart every non-essential parts off the computer and try restarting windows from there. I think there's a short in your system somewhere because my computer always behave just like yours when there's a short in my system.
  4. Hi m3ch,

    Change your power supply! Should be that simple.
  5. please check your power supply
  6. I had a similar problem with my latest build. After lots of trouble shooting I decided to remove my motherboard from the case then try it. Sure enough it powered right up.

    So what I did next was remove all the screws that I used to attach it to the motherboard and repace them all with ones that had a smaller head on them. After putting everything back together in the case it powered right up. So make sure and check the screw heads aren't over sized if they are they could be shorting out the motherboard.

    Good luck!
  7. I sugest you take the mobo out and put it on a cardboard box, and only run it with the PSU, and CPU and HSF installed and see if it give you beeps or a bios indication that it doesn't have ram. If not then try another PSU, if it does add back the RAM, and check for bios indicating that the GFX card is not installed. If not then it may be a ram problem if it does then add the graphic card, connect the monitor and see if it starts up. If not then it's the GPU or the PSU (possible the Mobo, but that's rare). If it showing the display hook up the drives and see if that works. If it works then you have to reinstall your mobo and make sure it can't short on the case, If it doesn't work, then it could be the drives, cables, or PSU (also the mobo may be suspect, but again that's rare). Hope this helps.
  8. 1) hardware issue - disconnect all things hook up 1 at a time
    2) virus or such - safe mode and no internet run programs anti this and that and hijack this
    3) os melt down - run repair with cd
  9. I have a computer that displays some of the oddities yours does. When I unplug my computer for a little bit (more than 2 minutes) I have to leave it pluged in for a while (more than 20 minutes). If I do, it powers on no problem and works like the day I built it (nearly 4 years ago). If I try to turn it on right away, it blinks the LEDs, spins the fans a few times and goes dark. After that pushing the power button does nothing. Leaving it plugged in for 10 hours does nothing. If I unplug it and plug it back in (no switch) it will do the same little power up thing and turn off again. It does this over and over again until I unplug it, plug it back in and leave it plugged in for a while. It's ALWAYS done this, and I have never figured out why...

    YOUR problem sounds like a dead PSU. I had the same thing happen on an old PSU long ago. Pretends to have power but won't turn on. Multimeter confirmed I had no 12v or something (it was 5 or 6 years ago).
  10. Another suggestion that may work for you and is very common for all laptops is to unplug the power for 10 to 15 minutes and then try it again. For the laptops that do this you would remove the battery and external power for a few minutes and then plug in only the external power to get the system running again. Sometimes this can be caused by the motherboard getting the "wrong" message while shutting down and therefore getting stuck in limbo between hibernation and shutdown modes.

    The others here have made good suggestions with trying another power supply and trying it "barebones" to see if it is something plugged in that is keeping the MB from powering on. I have experienced it being as simple as the front USB ports for the case causing it to not turn on.

    Good luck.
  11. I am sorry bumster but if you read has spec properly you would realise it's a desktop machine he has and not a laptop.

    To OP:
    It sound like a PSU problem. I had a machine that I forgot to unplug while doing a little electrical work around the house. I did switch the breaker off before the work but when I switched it on again the PSU had gone and showed signs similar to yours.

    When PSUs go they can often take out other components which makes troubleshooting a bitch. I ended up replacing the MB as well. It's always handy to hang on to the old parts from an upgrade that you might be able to use in a situation like this.

    Recheck everything is seated correctly i.e. memory, gfx card, power leads and try booting.

    If still no go, unplug all the bits you don't need to post like DVD, floppy etc. Try from there putting parts in one at a time till it won't post and 'there's yer problem'. If you can't post with bare minimum you're going to have to swap parts out to find the cause/causes out that reduced bunch i.e. memory, PSU, CPU, gfx.

    Good luck and I hope it turns out to be simple.
  12. I think he realizes it's a desktop, he's just giving an example of what happens on laptops and drawing a correlation, that his desktop might be having the same problem some laptops do. I don't think that's the problem, but I understand what he was trying to say.
  13. You are correct nvalhalla, I do realize that he is dealing with a desktop and not a laptop, I did mention unplugging things from the motherboard to see if something else was causing the issue. I have seen a few desktop MBs get the wrong shutdown message just like a laptop and that is all I was saying.
  14. First of all, I just want to say thank you to everyone for your comments and suggestions for fixing my problem. I honestly really appreciate it.

    So I'm going to do the following today, based on what you have suggested.

    First of all I will try and find another power supply - it seems that most of you suspect this component so I'll go for that first. I will also disconnect all non-essential hardware from the motherboard. Failing that I will remove the motherboard and try and run it outside of the case. And if that still doesn't work I will try replacing memory and CPU by borrowing from my friends! I think I agree it will probably be the power supply or the motherboard.

    So wish me luck! And thanks once again to all of you for helping! :D
  15. Quote:
    You are correct nvalhalla, I do realize that he is dealing with a desktop and not a laptop


    I do apologise, but you have to admit, you were not very clear on that. Laptops do have motherboards as well. They are put together by tiny, tiny people.....with small hands. Can't say I'd enjoy messing about to fix one.

    To OP:
    Please come back and let us know how you got on so those that guessed right can go 'I told you so' and those who were wrong can learn something new.

    Good luck
  16. OK I'm perplexed.

    I removed my Hiper PSU and replaced it with a cheap, generic 400W. My computer powered up. Yay I thought. However, I tried the Hiper PSU in a different computer and it powered that computer no problem. What the hell is going on here?

    I thought it might be down to power issues, so I returned my Hiper PSU to the original computer and tried booting it without the graphics card, memory, hard drives, dvd drive... so all it had to do was power the motherboard and I should see the fans spin. I was wrong...it did the same as before... the fans spin for less than a second and ... nothing.

    So... let me get this straight... the Hiper PSU refuses to power the computer it has been in for a year, but will power a different computer no problem. What the hell?

    :?


    Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm intrigued now!
  17. Quote:
    OK I'm perplexed.

    I removed my Hiper PSU and replaced it with a cheap, generic 400W. My computer powered up. Yay I thought. However, I tried the Hiper PSU in a different computer and it powered that computer no problem. What the hell is going on here?

    I thought it might be down to power issues, so I returned my Hiper PSU to the original computer and tried booting it without the graphics card, memory, hard drives, dvd drive... so all it had to do was power the motherboard and I should see the fans spin. I was wrong...it did the same as before... the fans spin for less than a second and ... nothing.

    So... let me get this straight... the Hiper PSU refuses to power the computer it has been in for a year, but will power a different computer no problem. What the hell?

    :?


    Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm intrigued now!



    PSUs are just a collection of electronic components. Many electronic components actually lose efficieny as they get older. The rate at which they will lose efficieny will depend on what %of max load they run at, and how long they run. So if you have a 400watt PSU carrying a 380 watt load, it will lose the capacity to produce max wattage faster than if it was only carrying a 300 watt load. If you run it 12 hrs a day, it will lose efficiency slower than if you run it 24 hrs a day.

    How does it lose efficiency? The capicitors will "wear" out and conductors will eventually begin to experiance increased resistance to name a few problems. The speed with which this happens can be accelerated due to heat/high temperatures.

    Capictor "wear"
  18. Maybe the powersupply's capacitor has aged and can't provide enough power for your computer anymore. It happens to every powersupply no matter how good the quality is. Good powersupply takes many years for its capacitors to degrade and cheap powersupply may only take 6 month to loose half of its power. So keep in mind as a general, What you pay is what you get. There very few shortcuts.
  19. in short: your PSU can't deliver the wattage it's rated for (maybe your computer pulled on a line that the other doesn't tax, and said line has gone weak - capacitor wear), making another system able to use it (for now) but not yours.

    Solution: get a new PSU. Preferably not a cheapo one (if only because a good PSU will have niceties such as pluggable cables, large size/adaptive sped fan...). Enjoy.
  20. Quote:
    OK I'm perplexed.

    I removed my Hiper PSU and replaced it with a cheap, generic 400W. My computer powered up. Yay I thought. However, I tried the Hiper PSU in a different computer and it powered that computer no problem. What the hell is going on here?

    I thought it might be down to power issues, so I returned my Hiper PSU to the original computer and tried booting it without the graphics card, memory, hard drives, dvd drive... so all it had to do was power the motherboard and I should see the fans spin. I was wrong...it did the same as before... the fans spin for less than a second and ... nothing.

    So... let me get this straight... the Hiper PSU refuses to power the computer it has been in for a year, but will power a different computer no problem. What the hell?

    :?


    Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm intrigued now!


    Does the other computer have a Graphics card that pulls as much power as the one you have in your current system?
  21. i really hate to disagree with all of you'll . but i feel his bios chip took a dump ! . what i would do first is . clear cmos jumper and take out battery for bout 5 minutes (some peeps leave it out over night , up to you). make sure power cord is un-plugged from your rig . re-flash your bios chip from your floppy . i alway keep a fresh bios flop just for the express purpose of quick flashing . also you can try holding down F1 during post , sometimes that will work to help start her up .
    Guys i feel his rig is just old enough to be burned in well . but not old enough to have bad cap's , it is a asus mobo which is well made .
    if it's a bad bios chip that can't or will not reflash , then RMA that sucker. course asus will sell you a new bios chip for your mobo for like $12 plus ship with the lastest bios version already on it . which would be alot faster fix than shipping your mobo to them .
    i feel your pain . been there , done that . good luck
  22. Quote:
    i really hate to disagree with all of you'll . but i feel his bios chip took a dump ! . what i would do first is . clear cmos jumper and take out battery for bout 5 minutes (some peeps leave it out over night , up to you). make sure power cord is un-plugged from your rig . re-flash your bios chip from your floppy . i alway keep a fresh bios flop just for the express purpose of quick flashing . also you can try holding down F1 during post , sometimes that will work to help start her up .
    Guys i feel his rig is just old enough to be burned in well . but not old enough to have bad cap's , it is a asus mobo which is well made .
    if it's a bad bios chip that can't or will not reflash , then RMA that sucker. course asus will sell you a new bios chip for your mobo for like $12 plus ship with the lastest bios version already on it . which would be alot faster fix than shipping your mobo to them .
    i feel your pain . been there , done that . good luck


    I've never heard of a Bios not like one PSU and liking another, without the PSU really being the Issue. Please read the full thread.
  23. 580 watt psu for your system is not enough to do the job, Your are over heating the transformers in the psu. Just like coils in a motor bike, if they get overheated the bike will shut down and now in effect the coils have been overheated and cannot produce the same current.
  24. actually, that psu is quite capable of powering that system
  25. Quote:
    OK I'm perplexed.

    I removed my Hiper PSU and replaced it with a cheap, generic 400W. My computer powered up. Yay I thought. However, I tried the Hiper PSU in a different computer and it powered that computer no problem. What the hell is going on here?

    I thought it might be down to power issues, so I returned my Hiper PSU to the original computer and tried booting it without the graphics card, memory, hard drives, dvd drive... so all it had to do was power the motherboard and I should see the fans spin. I was wrong...it did the same as before... the fans spin for less than a second and ... nothing.

    So... let me get this straight... the Hiper PSU refuses to power the computer it has been in for a year, but will power a different computer no problem. What the hell?

    :?


    Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm intrigued now!



    dumb question here..??do you have another hdd that you can test it with sounds like there may?? be a problem with the hdd controller.you certainly have enough psu power,although you might put a meter on the 12volt line just to be sure..:))
  26. no it is not, maybe for a short time but under stress prolonged use and it is overheating and if the person is ocing or playing graphic intense games the psu is using max output. Example, my 805 is over 1 gig oc'ed and when I use the 6800 ge the 550 enermax psu would overheat and shut down, 'I do have a excellent cooling system, I bought a 700 enermax psu with no problems of overheating like the 550. I used my digital display to read the temps of the psu and I had realized that the 550 was hotter than the 700 common sense tells ya that the lower watt psu is working too hard.
  27. this same thing happened to me years ago with a p3 tyan MB, and a Comp USA 350 watt PS, except it never worked.
    If I held the start button or shorted the ATX plugg with a paper clip it would stay running. if I rebooted with the paper clip it would not restart.

    Every other MB I tried that PS on (at least 6) it worked perfectly.
    Every other PS that I tried on the Tyan MB ( at least 4 ) worked perfectly.

    The power supply is still powering a. p3 I gave away, The MB got hit by lightning and is no longer with us.

    I always assumed it had something to do with the start circuit voltage
  28. From my guesstimation using power calculator, his system wouldn't use more than 350W (unless he uses water cooling/TEC cooler/ got some other stuff etc), so a good 550W PSU with 75% efficiency still will work on his system. But, if the amps if weak and the quality of the psu is bad, even a 750W won't last longer than the good 550W psu
  29. Quote:
    OK I'm perplexed.

    :?
    ...

    Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm intrigued now!


    i bet the system on which you tested your PSU have a lighter power draw than your computer.

    your old PSU is weakened. can't power your system even without drives... your video card alone draw more power that all your drives together. and all this goes through the same wires.

    of course, your psu will be able to power a standard computer and the cheapo PSU you tested can power your system for a few months before starting to get weak. your PSU could be still under manufacturer warranty, if it is, RMA it and get a powerfull cheap PSU by the time your PSU returns. then, you could sell the gonzo cheap psu or keep it for the next time your good costy PSU gets down again... ( cause if it got down after a year, you could have the same troubles next year )
  30. I would also look to the psu, but 500+ watts is more then enough to run that system.

    I ran a similar system (mine with a 1900XT, and the hogs as near as much if not more power then the 8800gts) all on a 450watt(the dreaded Antec Smart Power 2.0, worked fine for me with my last 2 systems) PSU and the wall draw was was under 350(maybe even 300...its been a while) watts idle and 440 @ load(orthos and sam 2). Keep in mind this means i was still a good 15-20 % away from the psu's limits due to efficiency(hell much more that things lucky if its 70% efficient).

    That said his psu "should" be able to run that system. even with some aging.

    Can you borrow a video card to test with? even if its pci

    Just take EVERY thing you dont need to post out.

    Leave

    MB
    1 stick of ram
    cpu and hs(duh :) )
    Video

    So unplug the hard drive(s) and CD/DVD's and usb devices and headers just to be sure. and see what happens. then start to add stuff back.

    I am not discounting the PSU(it may well have real cheap caps), but lets get everything out of the way. It also never hurts to take the board out of the case, just in case there is something back there causing a ground the should not be.
  31. Quote:
    From my guesstimation using power calculator, his system wouldn't use more than 350W (unless he uses water cooling/TEC cooler/ got some other stuff etc), so a good 550W PSU with 75% efficiency still will work on his system. But, if the amps if weak and the quality of the psu is bad, even a 750W won't last longer than the good 550W psu


    I have to agree. Looking at extreme's power calculator here

    http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

    the highest demand I came up with was 384 watts (with 20% aged caps) but thats only considering the info the OP gave, and doesnt account for any other items (extra fans, external devices). Using the 85% rule of thumb for his hiper PSU, it should be providing 493 watts. Still enough.

    It also makes the the huge assumption that the PSU is good.
    Looking at the problem simply, and going through it step by step.
    -The system does not run with Hiper PSU.
    -The system does run with a different PSU.
    -Both PSUs will power a different system. (OP did not give the specs of the second system)

    Process of elimination: If everything works normally with PSU 'B", but not PSU "A" then the problem must be with PSU "A". So what could be the problem with PSU "A"? A bad rail, aging caps?

    The theories forwared so far:
    -The BIOS taking a dump: isnt really a sound theory, as the system wouldnt boot with either PSU in that event.
    -A 580 PSU isnt enough. Based on the specs listed (and I could be wrong) his system should be drawing a little under 400 watts. A 580 watt PSU @ 85% efficency produces 493 watts. Enough to power the system, so underpowering shouldnt be the problem.
    -A HDD controller problem: A HDD controller problem would surface regardless of which PSU was powering the system.
    -Something else i.e another component failing: Back to the original problems - according to the OP the system works fine with another PSU, so it would appear all the other components are functioning properly.

    Gotta be the PSU. It went bad.
  32. The reason the psu went bad is the power supply is overworked, put in a 700 and he would not have a problem. Like mention in a post. I've seen this time over where the PSU overworked put too much stress on the resistors they become weaked from the lack of amps. You do realize that a system running 3d app.. use more power. THG stress test proved that.
  33. Quote:
    The reason the psu went bad is the power supply is overworked, put in a 700 and he would not have a problem. Like mention in a post. I've seen this time over where the PSU overworked put too much stress on the resistors they become weaked from the lack of amps. You do realize that a system running 3d app.. use more power. THG stress test proved that.


    Could be. Without knowing everything he has on the system, #HDDs, #Opticals drives, USB devices etc, he could easily be putting too high a demand on the PSU. If he has little more than what he listed, it should be ok. None of which adresses TIS or or quality of the PSU. In any event, if the system works 4.0 with a different PSU, then it cant be the other components or bios.
  34. This could be something far simplier than wear and tear and degrading of the PSU. The connectors in the sockets from the power supply could have become "looser". Since the PSU seems to be ok in another PC that boards headers could be slightly thicker so make a good contact on all the pins with the connectors from the PSU. I'd give all the connectors a little nip with some pliers to make them a little smaller to make sure they making good contact with all the pins.
  35. Quote:
    This could be something far simplier than wear and tear and degrading of the PSU. The connectors in the sockets from the power supply could have become "looser". Since the PSU seems to be ok in another PC that boards headers could be slightly thicker so make a good contact on all the pins with the connectors from the PSU. I'd give all the connectors a little nip with some pliers to make them a little smaller to make sure they making good contact with all the pins.


    It could easily be something like that. I once had an ATI 9800 pro that crapped out when the cards power connector developed circumferential stress fractures in the pin solder joints from fatigue due to vibrations generated by the cooling fan. Five seconds with a soldering iron fixed the problem.
  36. yep seem to me I had a problem with a board the pc3 2000 I actually used krazy glue to hold it in
  37. I had exactly the same problem. The best thing you can do is to RMA your PSU. The main reason happening this is capacitors decay in the PSU. I suggest you do it and don't use it on another computer. It might blow up and might cause damage to other parts. It's very simple the output specifications differs from the original while the ìf of capacitors changed.
  38. Troubleshooting is always a pain without the proper diagnostic tools or replacement parts. If you get lucky by replacing parts until it works, then everything I guess it'll be fine. If not, taking the machine to a local shop with the proper tools to diagnose the power supply, mobo, RAM, and video card may be the cheapest solution. Call around first and see what the shops want to run complete diagnostics. Around here, it runs $50 to $80. Quite frankly, if you're just guessing about replacement components, it can get pretty darned expensive.
  39. Quote:
    Troubleshooting is always a pain without the proper diagnostic tools or replacement parts. If you get lucky by replacing parts until it works, then everything I guess it'll be fine. If not, taking the machine to a local shop with the proper tools to diagnose the power supply, mobo, RAM, and video card may be the cheapest solution. Call around first and see what the shops want to run complete diagnostics. Around here, it runs $50 to $80. Quite frankly, if you're just guessing about replacement components, it can get pretty darned expensive.


    Thats true. In the OPs case, he pretty much identified the problem as the PSU, so he should just RMA it, assuming its still under warrenty.
  40. Might be switched off, ya never know.
  41. Quote:
    580 watt psu for your system is not enough to do the job, Your are over heating the transformers in the psu. Just like coils in a motor bike, if they get overheated the bike will shut down and now in effect the coils have been overheated and cannot produce the same current.



    Just pointing this out.
    This statement is incorrect.
  42. Quote:
    I would also look to the psu, but 500+ watts is more then enough to run that system.

    I ran a similar system (mine with a 1900XT, and the hogs as near as much if not more power then the 8800gts) all on a 450watt(the dreaded Antec Smart Power 2.0, worked fine for me with my last 2 systems) PSU and the wall draw was was under 350(maybe even 300...its been a while) watts idle and 440 @ load(orthos and sam 2). Keep in mind this means i was still a good 15-20 % away from the psu's limits due to efficiency(hell much more that things lucky if its 70% efficient).



    I also have a x1900xt and a x2 4200+ and 3 HDDs and 2 opticals and I ran it with a thermaltake 430W no problem for a while. There's an Antex NeoPower 480 in there now and still no problems.
  43. Well if he tryed plug just Mobo abd CPU and it still shut down its not problem of PSU not able to deliver enough power because it could be like 60-150W.
    It can be problem with voltage levels of PSU.

    Did you try reset your BIOS settings ?
  44. Ah the famous year old Hiper 580 PSU dying w/o notice. I have this power supply and did a lot of research on it (after buying it. See I am smart like that) and apparently this is very common. It has a 3 year warranty so you can either RMA it or get a better unit, I suggest corsair 520 watt. I bought mine 3 months ago so I still have 9 to 12 months to go!
  45. My hiper 580 watt burnt out after 3 moths of use when I built my PC. I could tell instantly when it happened cos it got BBQ'd and there was smoke coming out of it.

    Replaced it with the tagan 580 watt modular one and thats been fine for 2 years. My PC is usually in use for 4-12 hours a day, so theres a good PSU :)

    I realised after that theres a reason why the Hiper was £30 cheaper then the Tagan / Enermax / Seasonic ones.
  46. One month ago I had a problem exactly like yours. I've tried a lot of things (PSU, CPU, RAM, HDD, VGA) and found out that the mobo was the problem. On my case it was rust on some traces of the mobo (the one that linked the power to the cpu or northbridge - I don't remember).

    When I say exactly, I do say exactly. Including the PSU swap. The new one worked for a while (I don't know how or why) and then failed. My old psu worked flawlessly on other computer. I thought: you must be kidding me!

    So, consider the mobo as a problem.
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