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parts arrived today... hit a road block... help

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June 30, 2007 2:06:01 AM

hey everyone. thanks to you all for the suggestions on the parts, i ordered them Tuesday and they came in today... awesome!

So, I built the PC and it went smoothly, until i tried to start 'er up.

She starts up with one beep, which the mobo manual says is "successful startup." However, there is no display on the monitor. I tried another monitor and the same thing.

I took out one piece of RAM at a time to see if that was the case, and I checked to make sure the Vcard was pushed in all the way and the power connector was in properly. Everything on the Vcard looks good, and the fan is turning... so I guess I'm wondering what the hell's going on?

specs:
gigabyte mobo GA-P35-DS3R 775
intel c2d e4300
2x 1gb Gskil DDR2 800
Thermaltake 500w power supply
Lite-on dvd burner
250gb WD 7200rpm hdd
ummm what else... i think that should do it.
June 30, 2007 3:20:37 AM

Quote:
hey everyone. thanks to you all for the suggestions on the parts, i ordered them Tuesday and they came in today... awesome!

So, I built the PC and it went smoothly, until i tried to start 'er up.

She starts up with one beep, which the mobo manual says is "successful startup." However, there is no display on the monitor. I tried another monitor and the same thing.

I took out one piece of RAM at a time to see if that was the case, and I checked to make sure the Vcard was pushed in all the way and the power connector was in properly. Everything on the Vcard looks good, and the fan is turning... so I guess I'm wondering what the hell's going on?

specs:
gigabyte mobo GA-P35-DS3R 775
intel c2d e4300
2x 1gb Gskil DDR2 800
Thermaltake 500w power supply
Lite-on dvd burner
250gb WD 7200rpm hdd
ummm what else... i think that should do it.


Quote:
ummm what else... i think that should do it.


Be sure you have the 4/8 pin auxillary 12v power connector lead from the PSU plugged in to the MB. Otherwise the CPU will not get power and the system wil not post.
June 30, 2007 3:27:25 AM

Yes, that 12v CPU plug is frequently overlooked. But he wouldn't get a 'system OK' beep if this were unplugged would he? On my system I get momentary fan spin and then cut off when the CPU plug is out.

What video card do you have?

Perhaps a CMOS reset or else hold down whatever key loads BIOS defaults on that MOBO during power up and boot. This will be spelled out in the manual. You can always remove CMOS battery to get a full reset but you will need to leave it out for a good while. Manual should explain all this.

Some CPUs are not fully supporetd out of the box and may require a BIOS update. I have no idea if this is the case with your system but on some systems this is the case. I realize you can do nothing at all if you have no video but I have seen some boards at least POST to setup if you hold down the correct key during start-up. Once in you can then upgrade BIOS.

Is it f2 on the Gigabyte? You can at least try this -hold down F2 continuosly during power up and see what happens.
Related resources
June 30, 2007 3:38:16 AM

the aux power connector is that little square 4-pin one right? yea i have that in... i also just noticed the CPU fan isn't spinning. well, it spins for a second then stops. But, if i plug the CPU fan into one of the other 4-pin fan connectors on the motherboard (SYSTEM_FAN1 or SYSTEM_FAN2) as opposed to the "CPU_FAN," it spins fine. Is that power connector dead?

Ahh haha i forgot the video card in the first list of specs!

Sapphire ATI x1950XT 256mb
June 30, 2007 3:42:28 AM

Quote:
the aux power connector is that little square 4-pin one right? yea i have that in... i also just noticed the CPU fan isn't spinning. well, it spins for a second then stops. But, if i plug the CPU fan into one of the other 4-pin fan connectors on the motherboard (SYSTEM_FAN1 or SYSTEM_FAN2) as opposed to the "CPU_FAN," it spins fine. Is that power connector dead?


Quote:
Is that power connector dead?


Sounds like there is a problem there. MB problem of some kind. Previous poster made a good point about your BIOS needing a later revision to possibly support the 4300. Maybe check the MB website and see if a later BIOS is needed for your CPU support. When you reset the CMOS jumper, be sure to remove the battery AND unplug the PSU. HTH.
June 30, 2007 3:44:32 AM

Quote:
Sapphire ATI x1950XT 256mb


That card will require a 12v lead from the PSU for proper power.
June 30, 2007 3:50:17 AM

Do you get the 'ok beep' when that CPU fan was not spinning? The MOBO might not even start the system if no CPU fan is detected and in any event you will almost certainly overheat and then INTEL thermal protection will kick in and shut you down, I would think.

It appears from your manual that the 'end' key bypasses BIOS setup and goes directly to the BIOS upgrade utility. It would be interesting to see what happens if you hold it down during startup.
June 30, 2007 4:33:56 AM

OK so in response to badge, I have the PCI-E power connector hooked up to the card.

Also, i reset the CMOS (and took out the battery for 5 minutes) and still a no go.

It's unfortunate this motherboard doesn't have onboard video so I could troubleshoot and see if it's the V-card... but I think that "notherdude" was right about the CPU fan not being detected and the system not starting up. It's not the heatsink because i tried plugging the fan into another slot on the mobo and it spun fine, just not in the "CPU_FAN" 4-pin thing.

I guess right now I'm not so much worried about BIOS uipdates as I am about the CPU fan not workig properly. I guess it's time to RMA the motherboard. damnit.
June 30, 2007 4:49:39 AM

You still getting the 'ok' beep? And do some of the fan plugs still work and spin up the fan? It seems odd to get the system OK beep and yet no video.
June 30, 2007 5:01:42 AM

But if he's getting the "ok" beep then he should at least get video right. You should see some text saying something.
June 30, 2007 5:07:41 AM

On my DS3, the CPU fan doesn't always start right away either. My guess is it doesn't start until the CPU heats up enough to trigger it.

As long as you have the heatsink on it, it should not heat up quickly enough to trigger a thermal shutdown just because the fan isn't working. I know my old Athlon XP machine had a BIOS setting to shut down if no CPU fan was detected, but it wouldn't get far enough to make any beeps in that case. Dunno if the same would apply to your board or not.

I take it you have no other video card or CPU to try, to eliminate those possibilities? Try starting it without the video card and see if makes any difference. There should be a different beep error code for that, if the motherboard is working properly.
June 30, 2007 5:19:51 AM

Mate, all the new Gigabyte 965 and P35 boards do the same thing with the cpu fan. It can be disabled in the bios to keep the fan spinning. Ive had the same trouble with no picture before on several builds and i removed and replaced the video card 5 - 6 times and eventually it starts working. Cheers.
June 30, 2007 6:09:51 AM

It isn't the fan header. What if you were watercooling and not using a HS/fan? I used my 965P-DS3 fanless for a while, it never had a problem.
June 30, 2007 7:13:32 AM

You should definetly have the video card tested on another computer since the computer seems be fine and just not displaying anything.

About the CPU fan, like Thunderfox said, the CPU fan speed only starts spinning when it is required, IT IS NORMAL. This can be changed to automatically spin at full in BIOS. And yes plugging it into the SYS_FAN would have it running at full too. I don't believe anything is wrong with the Motherboard.
June 30, 2007 8:31:50 AM

OK so it's possible that even though the PC is turned on, the HSF fan may not be on right away because it's not needed? But the Sys_Fan pins would make it turn on right away because it's confusing the HSF fan for a Sys_Fan so it's not controlling it like a HSF fan?

I'm scared to do the finger test haha... The longest I've had the computer on with the HSF plugged in to the CPU_FAN pin was like 10 seconds... long enough to see it wasn't working and freak out and worry about overheating the chip.

Also, is there any way to test a graphics card when there aren't any other PCI-E-capable computers around? DAmn I wish my mobo had onboard video.
June 30, 2007 12:11:55 PM

I know it is not the fan header. It is not really a problem... The fan spins and stops because of the 'Smart FAN control method' setting in the bios. If you go into the bios and look under 'PC Health Status' find 'Smart FAN control method' set it to Disable and the fan will spin normally. I never said it was a problem with the fan header. Read the forums this "problem" has been discovered before. The no signal issue is not related to the cpu fan speed "problem.
June 30, 2007 1:03:37 PM

rootb33r, do you have an old PCI video card (not PCI express but good old PCI)? If so, or if a friend does, put it in instead of the new one. Or else take the new card to a PC shop and let them test it. I know it's a PITA - nobody has PCI-e systems laying around to use as a test bed yet.

Also, when testing your unresponsive system, it is best to go to barebones (cpu, 1 stick RAM, video and PSU). Sometimes malfunctioning peripherals will cause a system to hang. This will also help to rule out insufficient power from PSU for your video card, though I really doubt a 500 w TT would have any problem, but still you need to rule out ANY possible suspects.

And try moving the RAM to a different slot. It doesn't sound like a RAM problem but it's worth a try.
June 30, 2007 1:06:07 PM

Quote:
Mate, all the new Gigabyte 965 and P35 boards do the same thing with the cpu fan. It can be disabled in the bios to keep the fan spinning. Ive had the same trouble with no picture before on several builds and i removed and replaced the video card 5 - 6 times and eventually it starts working. Cheers.


Did you also get the 'sytem OK' beep when you had no picture?
a b B Homebuilt system
June 30, 2007 1:54:11 PM

Hate to tell you, and a lot of people think they are good, but, that thermaltake 500 watt power supply is probably what's causing the problem. Some people buy by name, others buy by watts....... but if it doesn't have the AMPERAGE to run everything, it's a piece of crap.

A friend of mine uses many of these in the less demanding machines he puts together in his shop, but they don't cut it in a "decent" machine.

Start "unplugging things you don't need, like the cd-rom/dvd-rom drives, floppy's, a stick of memory, etc. Then try and boot and see what happens.
June 30, 2007 2:32:19 PM

OK I just tried again and it gave me one loud beep and then it sounded like a very muffled short beep but not in the same tone/frequency/volume as the first... so it must have been something else?

This time, the CPU fan worked fine! oh i'm so happy i don't have to RMA the motherboard! glad to hear that the CPUfan thing is normal.

Still no video however...
How can i boot barebone without video? (no onboard)

Maybe I'll go buy a cheap PCI-E card, test it in my machine, then return it haha.

Also, in response to notherdude, yes i get the system ok beep and still no video.

And I have a couple AGP cards lying around but no PCI v-cards.
June 30, 2007 3:17:41 PM

I am pretty new at this and only have a few builds but had the exact same experience with the last one. Long story short, the cable that came with the video card (DVI) was dead. Just about every problem I have had with any build so far as been due to some cabling issue. Apologies if this is obvious but didn't see this mentioned in any of the posts.
June 30, 2007 3:19:18 PM

Despite the focus on all these other issues, I think you are overlooking one obvious: RAM. Usually failure to display video is a function of RAM, assuming your gpu is good. In that vein, a couple of thoughts. Is your RAM on the "qualified vendor list" for that MB? Are you using the proper channels when you plug the memory in? Check your manual, there are very specific sequences for populating the slots when using dual channel, or a single stick. Make certain the sticks are fully seated. If available, try another stick of RAM, perhaps of a lower clock speed, eg DDR2 667. I would think if your gpu is bad, you would get a beep code for gpu failure. At the same time, I've experienced crummy RAM getting past POST, but unable to initiate video display. Just a thought.
June 30, 2007 3:27:50 PM

OK.... got it working... but there's a caveat here.

First, I went completely barebones and i started it without the video card and got a "video card error" beep.
Then i put the video card back in and it worked!
Now, the system only had one stick of RAM in it. Since i knew that stick of RAM was working i tried it in the other 3 slots. The left 2 slots were NOT working with the working stick of RAM. (see link for pic)

P35-DS3R top view

Both sticks of RAM work in both of the right-hand slots. This is problematic because i need the red slot from the left pair, and the red slot from the right pair (or yellow and yellow respectively) for my dual channel memory to work.

Is this a sign of a faulty motherboard?
June 30, 2007 3:53:36 PM

OK so I'm in the formatting stage of installing XP (with one stick of RAM... i just wanted to make some progress to give me some hope haha) and i am randomly getting beeps from the computer, and these beeps mean "power error." Is this a shortage of watts?

Now, the system only has one stick of RAM in it. Since i knew that stick of RAM was working i tried it in the other 3 slots. The left 2 slots were NOT working with the working stick of RAM. (see link for pic)

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-050-04.jpg

Both sticks of RAM work in both of the right-hand slots. This is problematic because i need the red slot from the left pair, and the red slot from the right pair (or yellow and yellow respectively) for my dual channel memory to work.

Is this a sign of a faulty motherboard? does the fact that my RAM doesn't work in 2 of the slots mean they're dead?

Cooperstown39: Thanks for the thought, but neither my monitor nor video card came with a DVI cable. I had to run to CompUSA right before they closed (after i realized it) and buy a $45 "Monster" DVI cable... what a ripoff.
June 30, 2007 4:08:55 PM

That motherboard by default supports 1.8v ddr2 memory as with most ddr2 motherboards. When adding more than one stick, ajustments may have to be made in the bios according to your memory specifications if your memory is not the standard 1.8v. There are other people here in this forum that are can tell help with these settings, but generally you would have to change the voltage and timing settings.
a b B Homebuilt system
June 30, 2007 4:13:10 PM

I don't have the book for that motherboard in front of me, but not all motherboards need to have memory in both "red" or in both "yellow" to work in dual channel.

I have an msi board here with purple and green slots. For dual channel to work, I need a stick in both the right slots, ( one green, one purple), for it to work.

The "watts" isn't what you need......... it's amps. Look at the side of the power supply. Under 12v it should give you a number. If it's less than 26 or 28, it's probably a weak spot and can be causing your problem.

Some power supply's have 2 12v rails, and will have 2 seperate ampere ratings under them.

I don't know what model thermaltake you have, so I don't know what the rating is.

Formating without fixing the problem is only going to be aggravating for you, you know.
June 30, 2007 4:45:38 PM

asvcs: The manual says it supports up to 4gb 1.8v ddr2 800... i checked around in the BIOS and didn't see anything that jumped out at me to adjust the voltage for the RAM, only to increase it for OC'ing (it had step system of +.1V, +.2V, etc).

Swifty_morgan: when i was putting the PC together, i checked the mobo manual to make sure I was putting the RAM in the slots to use the dual channel setup... it follows the matching color scheme thing.

Also,

I take it from your post, the voltages are far insufficient.
June 30, 2007 5:10:13 PM

and G.Skill is not on the memory supported list for Gigabyte. is this really a problem or is it a marketing ploy?
June 30, 2007 5:20:53 PM

Under MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T) is where you go to adust memory voltage and timings in the bios. There are two areas there. One is DDR Overvoltage Control, and System Memory Multiplier (SPD). This is in section 2-9 page 49 of your motherboard manual. But before you mess with it you need to know the voltage and timing specs for your memory. Thats as far as I will go for information on the memory. I don't do the over clocking thing with memory, but there are other people here that do. Hopefully they'll jump in the thread and give you more advice.

About your power supply. Thermaltake don't make bad power supplies. There are better ones out there, but it is no means a piece of crap either. Unless it is actually a bad power supply, I think it will be fine for your system. The other guy could be right about a bad rail, but its looks like there enough power for your system to me. Although it never hurts to have more than you need.
June 30, 2007 5:42:56 PM

asvcs: thanks for the info.

I checked the newegg.com customer reviews on my memory, and there were multiple people who said they had to downclock to 667 or change the voltage to 1.9v to get more than one stick to work. I tried both, and still no luck. I think i'm going to return this memory and get Gigabyte-approved memory.

As far as the PSU goes, are you sure 500w and that voltage that i posted is enough power?
a b B Homebuilt system
June 30, 2007 6:31:25 PM

If you say that one each of the yellow and red RAM slots isn't working and your RAm is fine. U got a bad Motherboard.
June 30, 2007 6:59:14 PM

Quote:
asvcs: thanks for the info.
:?: :?: :?:
Quote:
Despite the focus on all these other issues, I think you are overlooking one obvious: RAM. Usually failure to display video is a function of RAM, assuming your gpu is good. ....try another stick of RAM, perhaps of a lower clock speed, eg DDR2 667
QFT
June 30, 2007 7:52:20 PM

Quote:
If you say that one each of the yellow and red RAM slots isn't working and your RAm is fine. U got a bad Motherboard.



Agreed.

As long as you can confirm both DIMMs work a-ok.
June 30, 2007 8:33:35 PM

yes, both sticks of RAM work fine in the right 2 slots.

So, bad motherboard?

damnit what a pain in the ass.
June 30, 2007 8:35:57 PM

Yeh its a fucka aint it. I had some odd POSTs when i built my first rig, according to standards AMI bios codes, it was supposed to be video adapter, and with a known good video adapter it was still beepin' away. It was memory, I don't know wht all BIOS writers don't agree on a certain set of codes...8-)
June 30, 2007 8:39:17 PM

RTFM :!: An earlier post mentioned checking the manual for order to populate RAM sockets. Some motherboards are very fussy.

Mike.
June 30, 2007 8:40:39 PM

RTFM ftw. haha nearly forgot that one, thanks buddy
July 1, 2007 12:18:19 AM

Quote:
RTFM :!: An earlier post mentioned checking the manual for order to populate RAM sockets. Some motherboards are very fussy.

Mike.


Thanks buddy, but I did that a loooooong time ago.

And this is nowhere near my first PC. First one in 5 years, sure, but not first by a long shot ;) 
July 1, 2007 12:07:38 PM

Yes, I think that power supply would be fine.

About the memory. Did you check the spec's on the memory and try setting the spec's up the same in your bios? If it does'nt work you can always reset the bios back to its defaults.

Reply to other people: Yes dimm 1 and 3 or dimm 2 and 4 should be populated on this paticular motherboard to get dual channel mode. But just because the board won't post using dimm 2 and 4 does not mean its a bad motherboard. Especially if the memory is non-standard ( 1.8v), and non-standard timings, which he has not listed exactly what it is yet. I have seen this many times on non-standard memory, ( will post with one stick and not two). Sometimes a bios update fix's this also, but the board being a new model, I doubt if they have an update yet.

About the QVL lists. Manufactures only test a few model's and brands, so other memory will work also. There is only a hand full of major memory manufactures out there, and all the memory companys buy from them. They re-program the memory, put there logo on it, put there heat spreader on it, and sell it under there own name.
July 1, 2007 3:29:41 PM

Quote:
About the QVL lists. Manufactures only test a few model's and brands, so other memory will work also. There is only a hand full of major memory manufactures out there, and all the memory companys buy from them. They re-program the memory, put there logo on it, put there heat spreader on it, and sell it under there own name.
Not entirely true. It depends on the manufacturer, some are quite diligent in maintaining and updating their lists. And it is also true that sometimes there are products listed on the QVL that still don't work. Then again, some m/b's have very specific requirements re: voltages and latency, and some chips just won't work, and are not going to be on the list. Think back to the P965 release, which had very specific RAM parameters, and which became even more specific, depending on the manufacturer. Then changed again, as BIOS updates were released. The QVL, while only a guideline, is still a starting point for compatibility, as witnessed in the instant circumstance.

mike99: Thanks for actually reading the thread and acknowledging my contribution. Others are apparently oblivious (whilst carrying on about CPU fans, psu's, etc.).

To the OP: Five years in computing might as well be light years. Good night.
July 1, 2007 6:22:01 PM

Madmurph,
I will agree to some of what you said and the QVL list is a good starting point. But I was just trying to point out that the QVL list are limited to choices of what they say will work in there motherboard, and the manufactures don't take out the time to test every dimm out there. But yes they periodically come out with a bios update for memory compatibility. That there other brands with standard voltages and timings that work just fine and dandy that is not on the QVL list. I also was just trying to point out because alot of people are unaware of this is most memory companies i.e Corsair, ocz, geil, mushkin, patriot, etc, do not manufacture memory chips them selves. They buy them from samsung, micron, elpedia,etc. That is all.
July 1, 2007 8:15:34 PM

Manufacturers certainly dont spend much time testing RAM. I have even had to return a pair of corsair sticks which caused a very similar problem. Problems booting which resulted from a fault with one of them. Booted ok with only one module ( on a dual channel 965 board ).
July 2, 2007 2:01:35 PM

OK well, since I'm not extremely fluent in memory timings and voltages I am going to RMA my G.Skill RAM and I have Kingston HyperX RAM (on the list of approved RAM) in the mail. Also, I RMA'd the motherboard and ordered a new one which should be here tomorrow.

I bought a new 600w OCZ power supply and that's in the mail too, but won't be here until wednesday... so I'm going to put the new motherboard and RAM in and see if it all works with the 500w Thermaltake PSU, and if it does i'll just return the OCZ PSU.

QUESTION: If the mobo gave me the "power error" warning beeps while I was trying to install windows (with 1 stick of RAM), doesn't that mean the PSU is too weak?

Also, could someone explain to me why my computer would post with one stick of ram in slot #3, but when I put the 2nd stick in slot #1 it wouldn't? (or, slot #4, and #2 respectively). i understand timing and voltages are an issue, but why does it work with one in there and whenyou put the 2nd one in, it doesn't work? p.s. this is why I concluded the left 2 slots were dead... even starting with 1 stick in #1 or #2 it wouldn't post.
July 2, 2007 2:44:38 PM

rootb33r,

Sorry to interrupt in your thread but..... are you the rootbeer from Smack Chat.

wood
July 2, 2007 2:51:33 PM

hmm... nope
July 2, 2007 2:54:31 PM

Thanks, carry on.

:wink:
July 2, 2007 3:45:18 PM

Ah yes, nothing like new information. I would keep the OCZ 600W PSU. Its aways better to have more than what you need in power, and you'll be more prepared for future upgrades.

Just curious, but did you already send the old motherboard and memory back yet? If not, you could test the new memory and PSU with the old motherboard, which would narrow down the exact issue. I for one would like to hear what you find out.
July 2, 2007 4:37:04 PM

No I haven't sent out the motherboard yet. I was going to send it out today at lunch but couldn't get out of the office. Now that you suggest it, I think I'll try the new memory with the old motherboard. I think I will RMA the TT PSU and keep the 600w OCZ because you make a good point about upgrades, etc.

The thing I'm curious about, however, is that the motherboard gave me the "power error" beep while I was installing windows... I thought 500w would be enough for a basic setup... its not like I have 4 hard drives or dual vcards or anything.
July 2, 2007 5:56:21 PM

Well this is kind of why I made the statement about new information in my last reply. If you got a beep code pointing at the power supply, then the power supply has in issue, and could be why the memory would not work correctly, because of improper voltage going to the components, all kinds of weird things can happen.
That power supply has enough power to do the job, but its possible that it is a bad new power supply. Although I personally have never seen a DOA new Thermaltake power supply. Everyone we have sold and installed has worked perfectly.
!