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8600 sucks?

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July 5, 2007 4:43:57 PM

I hate to be creating a new thread for this but I can't find the one I wanted to post in. Someone was talking about getting a new video card and mentioned the geforce 8600 as an option but a couple people said that card sucks and not to get it. Well, this caught my eye as I just purchased an 8600 :( 

So why does it suck and what are alternate options? The reason I chose that card was because it was in the best gaming cards for your money july 2007 article. I bought my EVGA 8600GT from newegg for about $115. I was looking at the 7900GS also since that was mentioned in the next price range.

Should I return it? I don't really plan on using vista and don't have any DX10 games but I don't know I just wanted it for some reason. I'm upgrading from geforce 5500.

EDIT: I found a similar post (not the one i wanted but this works)

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/answer-ftopict2...

Sorry for making a new one but that thread is like the same thing so if anyone has any comments for my i'll be following that thread, no need to keep this one going, Thanks though!

More about : 8600 sucks

July 6, 2007 7:30:45 AM

I made a thread similar to what you mention, i don't know if that's it:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/card-upgrade-ftopict243161.html

The impression i get from that thread but mainly the other threads i happened to read is not that the 8600gt sucks, it's just that it's not that good compared to the competition, i think. The advice i'm getting is that it's more worth it to go for a 7900gs instead (although i'm sure it all depends in each person's gaming needs).
July 6, 2007 8:23:02 AM

Well it all depends if you want a dx10 card and your budget is limited to say 150$ you only have the choice of the 8600 GT/GTS since the ati counterparts are even weaker. In the same price range you can find the X1950PRO and the 7900GS. From a gamers point of view there is no question these cards are better but for me from a practical point of view this cards are near their EOL and more often than not this means loud coolers that eventually need to be replaced, a good VGA cooler will set you back at least another 30-40$ so my guess would be if your a casual gamer the 8600 GT/GTS is quite enough and if you're a serious gamer get the 320Mb 8800 GTS.
Related resources
July 6, 2007 8:35:53 AM

The biggest problem with the 8600, and the ATI X2600 is that they don't seem to be doing well in DX10 mode right now. True, there isn't much in the way of DX10 titles out there, but the accusation seems to be that they will have to run DX10 games in DX9 mode to get playable frame rates.

Many people are either saving up for an 8800GTS or waiting for the next generation of midrange cards. According to Anandtech, new features aren't being implemented in DX10 games right now because the current generation of cards cannot handle geometry shaders.

Here's the article:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3029&p=7

I'd hoped that driver updates would improve performance, but it doesn't seem to be there. So, the 8600GT and GTS are good cards in DX9 games like Oblivion, but don't hold DX10 promise.

I'll either get an 8800GTS or wait for the 8900 (or 9800, naming rumors vary). If the next generation does better than today's, then a midrange card might be worth it.

This 7600GS was supposed to last me for 6 months, but it looks like I'll have it for a year. I can't see getting anything less than the 8800GTS now and if December is the launch of the next generation, then it's worth waiting for.

Quote:


Should I return it? I don't really plan on using vista and don't have any DX10 games but I don't know I just wanted it for some reason. I'm upgrading from geforce 5500.


I wouldn't return it. It's a great upgrade from what you had, and if you don't want Vista and DX10 right now, then it will last you until you need to upgrade when a game forces you to go to Vista. It's a good DX9 midrange card. It's not just what was promised in a DX10 card, that's all.

Me, I have Vista and I want a good DX10 card.
July 6, 2007 8:42:02 AM

They run DX10 alrite they just havent got enough on them.


8600gts will likely run your games fine if you have a 1024x768 resolution.
July 6, 2007 2:42:19 PM

I think the biggest thing is this: It's not that the cards necessarily suck, it's just that they don't live up to the hype of the 7600GT. If you remember, the 7600GT was an amazing card the performed better than the best cards the last generation had to offer. It even beat the X1800. Everyone expected the 8600GTS to live up to this reputation and when it didn't it was instantly branded as a sucky card. Is it a good performer? Yes, it just doesn't live up to everyone's expectations. The HD 2600 was an even bigger flop than the 8600GTS.
July 6, 2007 2:50:59 PM

I appreciate everyone's input, thanks. I ended up ordering the EVGA 7900GS over the 8600. Here's why. The price was about the same after mail in rebate. Also, since the 8600 has DX10, I figured it was a prominent feature that I was paying for but would not even be using so why get it? Thirdly, the 7900GS has 256 bit processing over 128 on the 8600. I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference though because I think they are very similar cards, especially after reading everything. In the end, it's gonna kill my geforce 5500 which is what i'm using now so hopefully I'll be happy till its time to move to DX10 in a while. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Oh and everyone keeps saying the 7900GS is EOL, what does that mean?
July 6, 2007 3:00:40 PM

While we are on the subject of the 8600 I have a question as well. I just bought the 8600GTS from newegg and I saw that it said you could run multiple cards at once (SLI). I just got a Dell e520 dual core 2.13 with 4GB of RAM and it came with a NVIDIA 7300LE which is the fastest one available on the Dell site for this model. The new card gets here Monday so do I leave the old card in and just put the new one in a new slot or do I take the old one out. I have only changed a graphics card once before in an old computer with an AGP port so any tips would be appreciated. I have yet to open this new computer up yet (its nerve racking!). I play a ton of games but not very technical about how the computer actually works, lol.
July 6, 2007 3:17:58 PM

SLI has to be done w/the exact same cards.
July 6, 2007 3:19:02 PM

You have to remove the 7300LE. The 8600GTS is SLI certified, but it needs to be paired with another 8600GTS. Your motherboard will only have one PCIE slot so SLI is out of the question for you. Also, make sure you connect the PSU to the card so it gets enough power (either through a PCI connector or a molex adapter).
July 6, 2007 3:41:17 PM

ok thanks! do I need to buy another connector because the pictures on newegg clearly point our the connector pins? also what are all the empty looking slots on the bottom of the tower for?
July 6, 2007 3:49:56 PM

EOL=End Of Life

Means that the chips won't be manufactured any more. The end of the series' life-span.

Quote:
from a practical point of view this cards are near their EOL and more often than not this means loud coolers that eventually need to be replaced, a good VGA cooler will set you back at least another 30-40$


I had to laugh at this. This poster seems to be saying that just because a chip is EOL a new card will be assembled with crappy components. XD
July 6, 2007 3:59:57 PM

The card should come with adapters if your PSU doesn't have the connector. The other slots on the motherboard are regular PCI slots that are used fos Soundcards, modems and LAN cards. They don't have the bandwidth to support the graphics card you are buying and the card won't fit in those slots.
a b U Graphics card
July 6, 2007 5:17:10 PM

Quote:
While we are on the subject of the 8600 I have a question as well. I just bought the 8600GTS from newegg and I saw that it said you could run multiple cards at once (SLI). I just got a Dell e520 dual core 2.13 with 4GB of RAM and it came with a NVIDIA 7300LE which is the fastest one available on the Dell site for this model. The new card gets here Monday so do I leave the old card in and just put the new one in a new slot or do I take the old one out. I have only changed a graphics card once before in an old computer with an AGP port so any tips would be appreciated. I have yet to open this new computer up yet (its nerve racking!). I play a ton of games but not very technical about how the computer actually works, lol.


Open the box and check to see that you have the P10 (4 pin)molex connector, there's been alot of talk about late model E520's having SATA only power connections on the psu. If that is the case you can get a SATA to molex adaptor here
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_p...
July 6, 2007 5:25:59 PM

ok thanks but why does the card have 6 pins?
July 6, 2007 10:14:24 PM

Quote:
While we are on the subject of the 8600 I have a question as well. I just bought the 8600GTS from newegg and I saw that it said you could run multiple cards at once (SLI). I just got a Dell e520 dual core 2.13 with 4GB of RAM and it came with a NVIDIA 7300LE which is the fastest one available on the Dell site for this model. The new card gets here Monday so do I leave the old card in and just put the new one in a new slot or do I take the old one out. I have only changed a graphics card once before in an old computer with an AGP port so any tips would be appreciated. I have yet to open this new computer up yet (its nerve racking!). I play a ton of games but not very technical about how the computer actually works, lol.

Didn't they still have the option for the X1300Pro 256mb for $100.00?
I got a E521 and the 7300LE was $50.00
I swapped the 1300 out for a 8600GT. Oh well.
July 7, 2007 7:18:18 PM

Quote:
ok thanks but why does the card have 6 pins?


I think the card needs extra power so you have to connect the 4 pin (Molex I think it's called??) connector to the card. From the picture it looks like the 6 pin to molex adapter has 2 molex connectors so I think you have to use 2 molex inputs but i'm not sure i'm just going from the picture maybe someone else can confirm how many molex connections are required...
August 7, 2007 1:44:53 AM

(sorry from awful english)

well, if i keep reading that kind of comments about 8600, i'll be able to conclude that GeForce 2 is better than it..

don't know about prices in USA (i just know 8600gt costs U$115)..
but in brazil, it costs R$700 in a good store (R$700 = US$350).. Really very expensive.. A 8800 u can't find for less than R$1200 (US$600), and the Ultra costs R$2400 here (more than a THOUSAND dollars).. is really very abusive!!

i readed tons of forums, topics, posts, comments, etc, and still couldn't understand why the direct comparison between a MID-range 8600gt and 8800 (so far, the best nvidia chipset)..
for sample, i came from a FX-5200 128mb/64 bits (and it still was running fine the games i use to play, 'cause a good 'device' between the monitor and the chair, make a hardware runs better)..
i use to play games like FIFA, NBA Live, Tiger Woods, The Sims, CS 1.6, even BF 2, Need for Speed..

i think the 'USAGE' factor has been forgotten..
for a pro gamer or 'addicted gamer', sure a 8800 is very better and worths every penny..
but i still thinking 8600gt a good card, and it again, goes fine for my use..

now i got a question..
is the 8600gt all that comments says?
or is really a lot of dookie crapped into 'graphic card' format?
a b U Graphics card
August 7, 2007 2:24:17 AM

I think you have to keep everything in perspective.
It's not that the 8600 is really that bad of a card, it's just that if you buy one for $115, you have a $115 video card. It performs well for a $115 video card. What do expect with todays video card prices for $115? You cannot expect miracles. If you have another $70 or so to spend, you can get a card that performs much better. Of course it also depends on what you play. You may be quite happy with an 8600. Someone else may think it's an utter piece of worthless trash for what they do. But then, they had better have deeper pockets.
To me, and my spendable cash, $150-$200 seems to be the spot for performance/value.
I would never pay more than $200 for a video card. But I have bought several right at $200.
Though not everyone may feel that same way.
August 7, 2007 2:41:08 AM

Thanks in advance jitpublisher, i hope u could read what i was trying to type ^^
I got what you said too..
I think the matter is 115 vs. 200 USD and 700 vs. 1400 R$..

After seeing that prices, i feel free to post here the prices i've paid in my pc (some weeks ago).. i will convert them to USD
AMD Athlon64 x2 3800+ (140 USD)
ASUS M2n-e SLi (190 USD)
XFX GeForce 8600 GT XXX (350 USD! lol!)
Kingston ValueRAM 1GB RAM DDR2 667 (90 USD)
Western Digital 80GB IDE (grabbed it from the old pc)
Huntkey GreenStar 450W (100 USD)
CoolerMaster Elite 331 (Case) (100 USD)
Samsung DVD-RW SH-S183A SATA (70 USD)
Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 1000 (40 USD!)

Haha i envy u for buying for so cheap..
August 7, 2007 3:02:27 AM

I got a 8600GT by MSI pre Overclocked, to 600/800(1600 effective) for 115 bucks, and it out performs my x1900GT. For 115 bucks, it kicks ***. Should you return it? i think not
a c 359 U Graphics card
August 7, 2007 3:56:25 AM

Well, I would buy a 8600 series card, but it wouldn't be for gaming. It would pick one up for my HTPC 'cause the 8400 - 8600 series has hardware decoding for HD video. The 8800 series lacks this feature.
August 7, 2007 4:26:04 AM

Own an eVga Geforce 8600GT and it's a pretty pathetic gamer; it's slower than my old 7800GT was. I purchased it as a secondary videocard for multi monitor work and media functions where my 8800GTX wasn't working the way I wanted.
August 7, 2007 5:20:58 AM

7900gs can be overclocked to 600/1620, which pretty much blows the 8600gt away.
August 7, 2007 7:35:21 AM

vip3569 said:
7900gs can be overclocked to 600/1620, which pretty much blows the 8600gt away.

My 8600GT is 620/1600 out of the box, but you got me on the memory bus 128bit vs 256bit. I'm still waiting for the mystery GS whatever it's supposed to be 256bit bus. I can only use a single-slot card and the 8800GTS 320 is too big for my case.
August 7, 2007 9:59:26 AM

I don't want to offend anyone, but it seems to me that people are just parroting how 8600gt/gts suck, mostly because first reviews were so bad.

8600gt is now much cheaper than it used to be. And new drivers did improve performance a bit, at least from my experience. Plus, it overclocks like a bitch and can easily be Vmodded. I played a bit with one and managed to OC it (via BIOS) to 660 core, 1620 shaders (from 1188!), 810 (mem), 100% artifact free, and that was before I started fiddling with voltages. That's at least 20% gain in performance over a reference GT. Plus, it's DX10 compatible, not that it means much yet.

Yes, in older games it's not much better then a 7600gt, but it shines in newer, shader intensive games like Rainbow Six Vegas (which is built on new Unreal 3 engine) and in Oblivion, where an OC-ed 8600GT will often be on a par with x1950pro and 7900GTX!

It's weak points are Antialiasing and some older games. If you can live with that, I think 8600gt is a better choice than a 7900gs or 1950gt.
And I have a x1950xt in my rig, so I don't think I'm biased.




a b U Graphics card
August 7, 2007 10:09:43 AM

I was involved in alot of the slamming of the 8600 series, and to some extent, I still dont care for them. As DX10 cards theyre going to suck, and mainly, ignoring DX10, was the price. As theyve come down, theyre a lil more competitive, but to me, that was the greatest problem, that and the 128 bit the inability to run DX10 too much hype not enuff show first to market last in value (when they came out) etc
a b U Graphics card
August 7, 2007 1:08:07 PM

I have slammed them too, and they deserved to be slammed. I don't know how many people I see pulling them off the shelves at Frys', Microcenter, and Best Buy for as much as $299 freakin dollars. It is pure robbery to pay that much for one, it's all DX10 marketing nonsense, and at that price THEY ARE A COMPLETE PIECE OF WORTHLESS S**T.
August 7, 2007 2:00:49 PM

can someone tell me what the highest stable overclock for an 8600 gts is roughly (with stock cooling) and I know this is off topic a bit but people seem to be repeating the same things over and over again
August 7, 2007 2:47:54 PM

Just check out the market-speak on nvidia's website concerning DX10 and the midrange 8 series cards."Unparelleled performance and realism in DX10 and DX9 games." YEAH RIGHT!
August 7, 2007 2:57:06 PM

lostandwandering said:
I think the biggest thing is this: It's not that the cards necessarily suck, it's just that they don't live up to the hype of the 7600GT. If you remember, the 7600GT was an amazing card the performed better than the best cards the last generation had to offer. It even beat the X1800. Everyone expected the 8600GTS to live up to this reputation and when it didn't it was instantly branded as a sucky card. Is it a good performer? Yes, it just doesn't live up to everyone's expectations. The HD 2600 was an even bigger flop than the 8600GTS.


For me that's the truth right there.

The demands on cards get higher and higher and the 8600 series just wasn't an acceptable midrange option.

The performace increase was at most 5%. That's why people say they suck, not because they're horrible cards.
August 7, 2007 4:21:39 PM

jeb1517 said:
I hate to be creating a new thread for this but I can't find the one I wanted to post in. Someone was talking about getting a new video card and mentioned the geforce 8600 as an option but a couple people said that card sucks and not to get it. Well, this caught my eye as I just purchased an 8600 :( 

So why does it suck and what are alternate options? The reason I chose that card was because it was in the best gaming cards for your money july 2007 article. I bought my EVGA 8600GT from newegg for about $115. I was looking at the 7900GS also since that was mentioned in the next price range.

Should I return it? I don't really plan on using vista and don't have any DX10 games but I don't know I just wanted it for some reason. I'm upgrading from geforce 5500.

EDIT: I found a similar post (not the one i wanted but this works)

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/answer-ftopict2...

S orry for making a new one but that thread is like the same thing so if anyone has any comments for my i'll be following that thread, no need to keep this one going, Thanks though!

One big problem have is the 8600 is a DX10 card. Ok, but don't expect to run a native DX10 game, like Crysis, in MAX or Mid settings. The next gen DX10 cards (the g100 and r700) will be better suited for native DX10 games. So a high-end card can play at MAX settings and a mid-range card can play at Mid settings. No proof, but I don't expect anyone to disagree. I just hope the next-gen cards have a more true mid-range classification. Not like the 8600/2600 which seems more like a low-end card.
The good news is native DX10 games in Vista 64 should run 10-20% faster than the DX9 version in WinXP. (Even DX9L should be faster in Vista it things are written correctly)

I personally think the 8600/2600 is just for people that wants more performance than the integrated graphics and don't mind playing on a small screen (or notebook PC).
(My 1 and 1/2 cents)
August 7, 2007 4:24:03 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I was involved in alot of the slamming of the 8600 series, and to some extent, I still dont care for them. As DX10 cards theyre going to suck, and mainly, ignoring DX10, was the price. As theyve come down, theyre a lil more competitive, but to me, that was the greatest problem, that and the 128 bit the inability to run DX10 too much hype not enuff show first to market last in value (when they came out) etc

The slamming was well deserved.
August 7, 2007 11:59:38 PM

Slamming wasnt well deserved, it all depends on what game you play. Dont remember who posted it, but the 8600 performs extremly well in dx9 shader intensive games. Im gaming rainbow 6 vegas with everything up, cept motion blur at 1600x1200 and getting over 30 fps, sacrifice that to 1024x768, and get motion blur at over 60fps, how is that bad, or "deserving" for 115 bucks on newegg?
August 8, 2007 12:01:37 AM

Rolenio said:

"Yes, in older games it's not much better then a 7600gt, but it shines in newer, shader intensive games like Rainbow Six Vegas (which is built on new Unreal 3 engine) and in Oblivion, where an OC-ed 8600GT will often be on a par with x1950pro and 7900GTX!"

He's right. Dont just knock it out of your options just yet.

Double post, my fault :p 
a b U Graphics card
August 8, 2007 12:58:40 AM

The GF8600GT needs to be overclocked to GTS level to be competative, and it still falls short of the X1950Pro in Rainbow6;
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2007/test_ati_radeon_hd_2400_xt_hd_2600_xt/18

Oblivion is the only game where it's competative. So if that's the only game, then hey it's worth considering, otherwise it's hard to recommend a card that will loose out more often than not and is pretty unuseable in DX10 titles in DX10 mode.

The slamming was definitely well deserved

For the price in the US the X1950Pro & GF7900GS are still superior to the GF8600GT and the X1950XT is superior to the GF8600GTS.

Now outside of the US the deals aren't always as good, and then it comes down to price/performance. But as a replacement for the GF7600GT the GF8600GTS is very dissapointing.

And I wouldn't mention the shader heavy apps, because the GF8600GT doesn't hold up well against the HD2600XT there either, but both suck compared to the X1950Pro and X1950XT.
August 8, 2007 1:42:50 AM

So since i made the mistake in purchasing this card can someone give me a link so i can OC this beast? Thx
August 8, 2007 2:00:20 AM

aaronkt said:
thx


link doesnt work :( 
August 8, 2007 4:26:27 AM

now it works! Thanks alot!
August 8, 2007 4:43:31 AM

Well, from what i red many people don't like the 8600 that much, but I don't think it's that bad at all especially if you're considering the price. Here in my country, almost all products especially video cards cost much higher if you convert it to USD. ATI cards here cost more that their NVIDIA counterparts.

The 8600gt here will approximately cost about 130~135 USD but considering the price here, its the best bang for the money here.
The 7900GS is about 200+ USD, the 1600XT is around 160+ USD and the 7600GT is roughly the same as the 8600GT (125~130 USD).

I will probably get the 8600GT coz it's the best option here right now, I'll OC it so I can juice up more performance from it. From what I heard, the 8600gt is a good overclocker. I play games but only at low resolutions and I don't mind playing at mid to low settings. So I think the 8600gt doesn't suck and not a bad card at all....

O and I totally agree from what jitpublisher said....
August 8, 2007 7:58:05 AM

kitchenshark said:
EOL=End Of Life

Means that the chips won't be manufactured any more. The end of the series' life-span.

Quote:
from a practical point of view this cards are near their EOL and more often than not this means loud coolers that eventually need to be replaced, a good VGA cooler will set you back at least another 30-40$


I had to laugh at this. This poster seems to be saying that just because a chip is EOL a new card will be assembled with crappy components. XD


Does anyone know if the go 7950 gtx is eol yet. Just bought a laptop with one in it for gaming.
August 8, 2007 8:41:03 AM

There is another interesting guide for overclocking on Benchzone

Even if you are not ready to flash your card it's worth reading. Good luck!

PS: To kwekmiester - Be careful to avoid DDR2 versions of GT!
August 8, 2007 9:57:31 AM

why not use the step up program? sorry if this has all ready been mentioned.
Edit: if you want to oc this beast google 8600GT volt mods most people can get it too 800mhz min but since its the gt it lacks the power connector so 800mhz would be about tops.
January 13, 2008 12:14:52 PM

hello

i'm running a quite old system (2years) and upgraded in july my xfx6600GT 256 mb to an 8600GT 256 mb one.
it was a big diffrence (specially in higher resolutions) BUT: it doesn't perform like i will it to do.

so i'm thinking by myself, should i buy an ati 3850 512 mb one? wich is stronger than that 8600 GT!

but, should my cpu be a master bottleneck? i could play at low/mid settings crysis (15-50 fps) :pfff: 
and should i play crysis better? i play cod4 at res 1280x1024 without problems, everythin high average 30-35 fps (res 1024 or 1280) so would it do enything, or will my cpu play the bad bottleneck and there will be no diffrence at all.

or should i save my money for a next build...
January 13, 2008 12:28:51 PM

jeb1517 said:
I hate to be creating a new thread for this but I can't find the one I wanted to post in. Someone was talking about getting a new video card and mentioned the geforce 8600 as an option but a couple people said that card sucks and not to get it. Well, this caught my eye as I just purchased an 8600 :( 

So why does it suck and what are alternate options? The reason I chose that card was because it was in the best gaming cards for your money july 2007 article. I bought my EVGA 8600GT from newegg for about $115. I was looking at the 7900GS also since that was mentioned in the next price range.

Should I return it? I don't really plan on using vista and don't have any DX10 games but I don't know I just wanted it for some reason. I'm upgrading from geforce 5500.

EDIT: I found a similar post (not the one i wanted but this works)

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/answer-ftopict2...

Sorry for making a new one but that thread is like the same thing so if anyone has any comments for my i'll be following that thread, no need to keep this one going, Thanks though!


People often hold up dx10 compatibility as a reason to buy the 8600gt over a dx9 card of similar or greater power, but then again under dx10 you will have to chop the settings right back to get a smooth frame rate, which wont be pretty. I think also the huge gulf between the 8600gts and 8800gts (320mb) really annoyed alot of people. The 8600gt is cheap and overclocks well, and is in no way a bad card, but the 8600gts was very overpriced for what you got.
January 13, 2008 12:34:18 PM

The 3850 512mb is a very good card. Don't worry about bottleneck. There will be a small amount of bottleneck but not enough to make any difference. You will see a significant improvement over your 8600gt seeing as the 3850 is about 4x as powerful.

Just as a point though your system is getting a bit old. I have checked and I see you have started another thread about upgrading your cpu. You need to find out the revision of the mobo. Anything from rev 2 onwards accepts C2D.
!